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Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

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    #5672
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,653 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It needs to come with a message of "as long as it takes", no made-up guesses of x weeks and an apology for cancelling Christmas!

    I think the number of weeks is about trying to sustain measures and motivate people along mentally. If it's open ended it would be very difficult to sustain. Might have better compliance if its 3 weeks and then another 3 say. But message needs to be how well these measures are adopted by everyone ultimately decides how long they will be in place. Plus there needs to be some sort of penalty and people seen to be penalised to have an actual deterrent and incentive to follow them


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    #5673
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    So Simon, the minister for Higher education who last week said college is overrated, released the news that the country would definitely be going into higher stage of lockdown. This is before the meetings that are scheduled to take place to further discuss the situation?

    They're an absolute shower of incompetent, inept and unreliable tossers. Worst government the country has ever seen, and that includes during the last crash. They will bring us to our knees in the months ahead.

    Somebody should do something.


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    #5674
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    sterz wrote: »
    So level 4. Which is really level 5.


    I tought we were already on 4.1 or something


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    #5675
    giveitholly
    Registered Users Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    AlphaDelta1 wrote: »
    Common sense at last.

    So closing businesses and non essential retail is the answer to all this


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    #5676
    440Hertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭440Hertz


    Happydays2020 wrote: »
    The last thing we need is another NPHET type structure. They are the goons who have been mismanaging the health service.

    Everyone knows what needs to be done. Slaintecare is the blue print. Just needs the political will to do it and to take on the vested interests. That also means a one tier Public health system although capacity can be bought from the private hospitals for elective and routine, with public hospitals focused much more on emergency care.

    It needs a lot more than political will. We don’t seem to understand what’s wrong with the system in the first place.

    Every single political attempt to reform it in the past has failed. There have been very well intentioned people chewed up and spat out by the system.

    Also it’s managed to do things politically like have groups of people fighting over a gold plated national children’s hospital projects, throwing millions upon millions down the drain designing and redesigning it because they started the project before finalising the site selection.

    Umpteen experts from Ireland all non objectively opined ad nauseum about access and car parking and colocation. The project costs went up and up and up. Everyone was blamed, including rather unfairly the construction contractor, when the entire problem was abysmal decision making and chaotic processes.

    Meanwhile we’ve our fleet of acute hospitals struggling to even deliver normal services because they are apparently starved of funds.

    How anyone or any political parties can stand over that is beyond me and it points to a major problem and inability to see the big picture at all, which is why I would say a panel of external experts with a remit to absolutely let rip in a report is absolutely necessary.

    We are pouring money into a giant hole that we can’t even define.

    Slaintecare is useful but it needs a brutally blunt analysis of the system and options laid out before it. There’s so much wrong with the Irish healthcare system that it needs to be dealt with as a major intervention.

    We can’t afford another mess like this again. We’ve very much been caught in a storm with no roof on the house, having spent 40 years debating the design of the roof tiles and a public ground down by a lifetime of chaotic healthcare delivery who accept this as normal.


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    #5677
    giveitholly
    Registered Users Posts: 5,560 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    Mr.S wrote: »
    There's a clear difference between level 4 and 5?

    Feck all really


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    #5678
    sterz
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭sterz


    Mr.S wrote: »
    There's a clear difference between level 4 and 5?

    There really isn’t. Non-essential retail closes under level 4. So it’s as crippling as level 5.


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    #5679
    TTLF
    Registered Users Posts: 671 ✭✭✭TTLF
    save the trouble and jazz it up


    cant wait for the public outcry when they announce "yeah but school WILL be staying open btw" tomorrow after the meeting

    :rolleyes: I can imagine it now


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    #5680
    I Am The Law
    Registered Users Posts: 657 ✭✭✭I Am The Law


    s1ippy wrote: »
    So Simon, the minister for Higher education who last week said college is overrated, released the news that the country would definitely be going into higher stage of lockdown. This is before the meetings that are scheduled to take place to further discuss the situation?

    They're an absolute shower of incompetent, inept and unreliable tossers. Worst government the country has ever seen, and that includes during the last crash. They will bring us to our knees in the months ahead.

    Somebody should do something.

    Well it's actually the same government with 50% extra tossers.


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    #5681
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,612 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    AlphaDelta1 wrote:
    Common sense at last.

    Common sense and Simon Harris don't belong in the same sentence.
    This is the guy who was Minister for health at the start of this thing where we let in Italian rugby fans, let people off to Cheltenham and other major sporting events and told skiers they didn't need to self-isolate when they got back. And let's not forget the children's hospital fiasco.

    Anyways probably doesn't make him any worse than the current minister for health or his party leader or Martin.


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    #5682
    Pretzill
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭Pretzill


    I'm wondering are they going to scrap this Level nonsense and just bring in restrictions that are clear and give us a way through and out the otherside...They really have a lot to do to garner public confidence whatever they decide.


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    #5683
    Jenna James
    Registered Users Posts: 624 ✭✭✭Jenna James


    Is it likely midnight tomorrow then?


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    #5684
    niallo27
    Registered Users Posts: 16,010 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    Mr.S wrote: »
    There's a clear difference between level 4 and 5?

    Like what, what do you regard as clear differences. Half a million out of work, that's the only difference worth anything.


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    #5685
    GooglePlus
    Registered Users Posts: 2,010 ✭✭✭GooglePlus


    Pretzill wrote: »
    I'm wondering are they going to scrap this Level nonsense and just bring in restrictions that are clear and give us a way through and out the otherside...They really have a lot to do to garner public confidence whatever they decide.

    We need a framework to bring about a roadmap to recovery and finally build back better.


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    #5686
    Busi_Girl08
    Registered Users Posts: 17,766 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    Jenna James wrote: »
    Is it likely midnight tomorrow then?

    I would hope from midnight Tuesay at least to give businesses a chance to prepare for closure etc.


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    #5687
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Eod100 wrote: »
    I think the number of weeks is about trying to sustain measures and motivate people along mentally. If it's open ended it would be very difficult to sustain. Might have better compliance if its 3 weeks and then another 3 say. But message needs to be how well these measures are adopted by everyone ultimately decides how long they will be in place. Plus there needs to be some sort of penalty and people seen to be penalised to have an actual deterrent and incentive to follow them
    Well, it gives false hope to people when we know from experience that it's just not a real number. Joking aside, they need to own up about Christmas now, that it will be very different and very restricted and there's no point promising otherwise or that they can save it.


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    #5688
    harr
    Registered Users Posts: 4,478 ✭✭✭harr


    No major difference between 4 and 5 .. all non essential retail will close . Only difference for me anyway is the 5k rule . Under level 4 have to stay in own county in level 5 only allowed 5k from your house which is a pain in bollix


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    #5689
    Kh1993
    Closed Accounts Posts: 443 ✭✭Kh1993


    AlphaDelta1 wrote: »
    Common sense at last.

    So 4 days to decide level 3 hasn’t worked with the added visits restrictions

    I’m sure that’s not best practice.


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    #5690
    eagle eye
    Registered Users Posts: 37,612 ✭✭✭✭eagle eye


    Pretzill wrote:
    I'm wondering are they going to scrap this Level nonsense and just bring in restrictions that are clear and give us a way through and out the otherside...They really have a lot to do to garner public confidence whatever they decide.
    It only has to be a surprise mole message.
    Something like that we are looking to a very bleak future without major changes. There is a danger that Christmas could be a miserable time. We are going for a major lockdown in the hope we can flatten the curve before Christmas.

    They need to close the schools as part of this. We need to eliminate all potential avenues of transmission that we can.


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    #5691
    sterz
    Registered Users Posts: 527 ✭✭✭sterz


    Mr.S wrote: »
    And you know...staying within 5km of your home. Pretty big difference.

    Ha, as if you have to abide by that advice. For what it’s worth I did and I will, but closing these businesses is clearly the bigger issue here.


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    #5692
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Pretzill wrote: »
    I'm wondering are they going to scrap this Level nonsense and just bring in restrictions that are clear and give us a way through and out the otherside...They really have a lot to do to garner public confidence whatever they decide.
    The only way we are going through is with restrictions, severe or otherwise. I wouldn't bank on the public confidence though, grudging acceptance is the best that can be hoped for.


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    #5693
    RugbyLad11
    Registered Users Posts: 547 ✭✭✭RugbyLad11


    AlphaDelta1 wrote: »
    Common sense at last.

    Why?

    What is the difference between our current level and level 5?

    It's that non essential shops must close but we already have a rule that people must wear masks inside shops so I don't see how closing non essential shops is going to make a difference


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    #5694
    Artane2002
    Registered Users Posts: 1,987 ✭✭✭Artane2002


    TTLF wrote: »
    cant wait for the public outcry when they announce "yeah but school WILL be staying open btw" tomorrow after the meeting

    :rolleyes: I can imagine it now

    capacity on public transport being reduced to 25% will be problematic for students if they do go to level 4/5. hopefully some common sense is shown by the government but we've seen that they lack common sense so I'm not holding my breath.


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    #5695
    440Hertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭440Hertz


    Pretzill wrote: »
    I'm wondering are they going to scrap this Level nonsense and just bring in restrictions that are clear and give us a way through and out the otherside...They really have a lot to do to garner public confidence whatever they decide.

    I think to a degree that framework was a self built political trap. They have managed to create an expectation that those are the only possibilities and it’s creating a huge degree of inflexibility and I’m really not sure how it’s improved the ability for anyone of us to plan.

    All it seems to have done is create a situation where we are all feeling threatened by the potential implication of “a level 5” instead of dealing with the realities in a pragmatic way.

    There’s no ideal way of doing this and the situation is genuinely unprecedented, but I think they really need to avoid building sticks to beat themselves in with like extremely ridged frameworks in a totally unpredictable, fast moving and dynamic situation with a whole load of unknowable never mind unknowns.


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    #5696
    speckle
    Registered Users Posts: 2,251 ✭✭✭speckle


    Trump declared non infectious at with a ct level of 34.3. Hopefully now ct levels in all tests can be callibrated to know when we start to be infectious and end being infectious. might help.
    ct level cane from twiv tv via faucci.


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    #5697
    AlphaDelta1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 477 ✭✭AlphaDelta1


    Kh1993 wrote: »
    So 4 days to decide level 3 hasn’t worked with the added visits restrictions

    I’m sure that’s not best practice.

    Dublin is at L3 for 4 weeks now, it hasnt worked.


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    #5698
    Russman
    Registered Users Posts: 5,853 ✭✭✭Russman


    khalessi wrote: »
    PArt of the issue with the government and NPHET is Tony dealt with the old government who seemed to be able to communicate with NPHET. The present incumbents are incapable of releasing any message without confusion, even after hiring pr a few months ago. Whatever happened to them?

    Government changed and certain politicians who were still used to the old ways of thinking, got close to power and can’t grasp the enormity of situation.


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    #5699
    carveone
    Registered Users Posts: 1,215 ✭✭✭carveone


    sterz wrote: »
    There really isn’t. Non-essential retail closes under level 4. So it’s as crippling as level 5.

    Totally agree and "crippling" is the right word.

    Except as far as I can see "sports training" can take place a level 4. As I walked by the local playing pitches just now, there was "sports training" taking place in two large groups of about 30 each. I suppose that's nothing compared to the nearby schools where kids hang around in groups of 100!

    Whatever you think about any of that, it seems completely deranged to allow something like sports, or hell even schools, while closing all retail. Which, in my humble opinion, will destroy large numbers of SMEs in this country, most of which are barely hanging on as it is.

    I honestly don't see why we can't have lockdown with all shops remaining open. If supermarkets are open with 100s of people, why can't my local hardware stay open, with 2 or 3 people. Retail is a masked controlled environment. None of this makes any sense at all - I'm very frustrated... :confused:


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    #5700
    440Hertz
    Closed Accounts Posts: 651 ✭✭✭440Hertz


    speckle wrote: »
    Trump declared non infectious at with a ct level of 34.3. Hopefully now ct levels in all tests can be callibrated to know when we start to be infectious and end being infectious. might help.
    ct level cane from twiv tv via faucci.

    I think we can safely say that any facts from the Trump case are probably best not to be used for a benchmark for anything other than ego and political expedience ahead of an absolutely bizarre election.


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    #5701
    is_that_so
    Registered Users Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Russman wrote: »
    Government changed and certain politicians who were still used to the old ways of thinking, got close to power and can’t grasp the enormity of situation.
    Well, one member of the previous government went to town on NPHET. This is not just about public health any more, even if it brings comfort to some to think we'll all be safe at Level 5.


This discussion has been closed.
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