Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

mloc123 · 17-10-2020 01:53PM

Boggles wrote: »

5-6 weeks after opening them our public health team are recommending Level 5 restrictions.

Am I doing it right?

And before they ever opened, NPHET kept warning that community transmission was growing and too many people were having too many close contacts... But, people continued to ignore these warnings

ChikiChiki · 17-10-2020 01:53PM

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1317229951117103110?s=19

This a great thread. School children are tested intensely yet have lowest positivity.

School children are not the problem.

GAA parties have been way more detrimental to the spread of Covid.

Foundation of communities across the country. Whole families involved. Undoubtedly a big contributor.

Happydays2020 · 17-10-2020 01:54PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

NPHET is doing a terrific job. Shooting the messenger will not solve the problem of the virus. The process works. Because the country is now waking up to the reality that it is facing a very unpleasant vista of the next 6-8 months at least, is not a reason to jettison its best informed people on the matter. It is reminiscent of a Brexit comment about having had enough of 'experts' because their analysis didnt reach the conclusions the Brexit faithful wish to hear.

The same people in NPHET are responsible for hospital capacity and tracking & tracing. Are they really doing a terrific job? I want a full time structure with full time expertise at the centre of Govt. and not this constant charade of mixed messages and press leaks.

xhomelezz · 17-10-2020 01:55PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

The same people in NPHET are responsible for hospital capacity and tracking & tracing. Are they really doing a terrific job? I want a full time structure with full time expertise at the centre of Govt. and not this constant charade of mixed messages and press leaks.

Are they?

Irish Steve · 17-10-2020 01:55PM

Time for the government parties, all of them, to grow a pair, and change how they are operating, and to change how they are dealing with the public, we need a lot more open and honest information about the way this virus is being spread, and how they intend to manage it, and deal with the consequences.

If the schools/colleges/universities are contributing to spread, they need to be up front and admit that they are, but on the basis of making it clear that education is not an option for the sake of all concerned, and closing schools etc will also have a significant impact on keeping the economy alive, due to the number of people that would not be able to work if the schools are not operating.

They have to start telling it like it is, and accept that there are some fundamental issues that should have been addressed months ago, issues they've all known about for a very long time.

The HSE and health systems are dysfuntional, it was never sorted out when the health boards (or whatever they were called) were merged, and even now, fundamental core things like computer systems are not completely compatible, and working practices etc are still not standardised.

There was a window of opportunity during the summer to start preparing for the coming winter, but the numbers dropped so far, they got lulled into a false sense of complacency, and didn't do the things they should have in terms of making sure that the services were really prepared to deliver this winter, and we're now seeing a scenario where NPHET are only a fraction away from panic about the way things have escalated in recent weeks.

Track and trace isn't working. Admit it, and change it, quickly, it shouldn't be hard, Google already have most of it in place, if you have the right options enabled, I can see where I've been and what times I was there without any problems, if the need arises.

Admit that they know just how bad things are as a result of the pubs being open, and the GAA using those pubs in completely inappropriate ways after their local teams won. Meath has gone through the roof in Covid infections, and there are several GAA clubs that are one of the prime cause, and then you can add the problems of local pubs close to Dublin being rammed when the Dublin pubs were closed, and some of those pubs were less than honest about how they were managing things, they didn't manage it, and the result is a huge spike in numbers locally, not helped by asymptomatic staff in those pubs.

There needs to be a clear recognition from the ALL the relevant people in the public sector that shutting down huge chunks of the private sector of the economy is seriously damaging to the people employed there, and the level 4 and 5 plans are massively divisive, the private sector are massively hit by the shutdown, and the public sector are not affected in anything like the same way, their incomes remain unaffected unless they are not able to earn overtime, and working from home means that many of them are better off because they're not paying out to commute. Many in the private sector will be hammered by levels 4 and 5, and may not ever fully recover from the loss of income that will be a part of that.

There has to be zero tolerance of things like Golfgate, and similar attitudes from people in high places that think the rules don't apply to them, especially where the offenders are those who are making the rules. Rules with appropriate sanctions need to be in place, and enforced, without favour, and seen to be enforced.

Level 3 with an overnight curfew would go a long way towards reducing the numbers, if everyone gets the message that socialising without social separation is a problem, we might see things improve, but that comes with the caveat that getting the teens on board with that won't happen if they are not up front about what's really happening in education.

Pretending that there are no problems in schools and colleges is no longer an option, that is one aspect of really living with Covid that has to be faced up to. Education is essential, along with other fundamental pillars of what is supposedly a civilised advanced society.

I find myself wondering about that when I see some of the comments being made here, and even more so on places like Facebook, some of the neanderthal attitudes that are being openly flouted make me very unhappy about the future for a number of nations.

Covid was and still is a fundamental game changer for society, and it still has the potential to destroy much of what is being held dear by many countries, and it for sure is exposing some of the fundamental ways in which society as we know it is possibly fatally flawed.

And just to really stir the pot, don't even dream of adding another 4 years of Trump and Brexit to the mixture.

Happydays2020 · 17-10-2020 01:56PM

xhomelezz wrote: »

Are they?

Yes they are. Look at the membership.

xhomelezz · 17-10-2020 01:59PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Yes they are. Look at the membership.

I will. It's getting messy, well at least for me. Getting lost in it. The way I get it is, NPHET is independent body to give advice to government. And government makes decisions.

MelbourneMan · 17-10-2020 01:59PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

The same people in NPHET are responsible for hospital capacity and tracking & tracing.

They are not. Their terms of reference are detailed here, which I hope you find helpful :
https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/691330-national-public-health-emergency-team-covid-19-coronavirus/#nphet-governance

Tenzor07 · 17-10-2020 02:00PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

NPHET is doing a terrific job. Shooting the messenger will not solve the problem of the virus. The process works. Because the country is now waking up to the reality that it is facing a very unpleasant vista of the next 6-8 months at least, is not a reason to jettison its best informed people on the matter. It is reminiscent of a Brexit comment about having had enough of 'experts' because their analysis didnt reach the conclusions the Brexit faithful wish to hear.

A terrific job at leaking out information that has a clear and direct influence over the economic health of the country, not to mention the mental health of Irish citizens who are terrified by this constant doubt over the apparent lack of a clear plan and way out of this crisis, creating that doubt which business just thrive on when deciding whether to close the doors permanently or try stay open with a minimum of staff, excellent!
With a highly political figure like Dr. Death Holohan stepping outside of NPHET's primary function of advising Cabinet I think it's time we swapped these Experts for some experts who are at the top of their particular areas of expertise

SusanC10 · 17-10-2020 02:01PM

Melbourne's Lockdown seems to have worked as Victoria only recorded 1 case yesterday.

How did they deal with all the Businesses closed etc there ?

Happydays2020 · 17-10-2020 02:03PM

MelbourneMan wrote: »

They are not. Their terms of reference are detailed here, which I hope you find helpful :

https://www.gov.ie/en/collection/4abdb7-minutes-of-national-public-health-emergency-team-nphet-meetings-2019/?referrer=/national-patient-safety-office/patient-safety-surveillance/antimicrobial-resistance-amr-2/public-health-emergency-plan-to-tackle-cpe/nphet-press-releases-minutes-of-meetings/#terms-of-reference

Date and Time Location Chair
National Public Health Emergency Team – COVID-19 Meeting Note – Standing meeting
Thursday 10th September 2020, (Meeting 53) at 10:00am Department of Health, Miesian Plaza, Dublin 2
Dr Ronan Glynn, Acting Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Members via videoconference
Dr Kevin Kelleher, Assistant National Director, Public Health, HSE
Prof Philip Nolan, President, National University of Ireland, Maynooth and Chair of the Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group (IEMAG)
Dr Cillian de Gascun, Laboratory Director, NVRL and Expert Advisory Group (EAG) Chair
Dr Lorraine Doherty, National Clinical Director Health Protection, HSE
Dr Máirín Ryan, Deputy Chief Executive and Director of HTA, HIQA
Dr John Cuddihy, Interim Director, HSE HPSC
Prof Colm Bergin, Consultant in Infectious Diseases, St James’s Hospital
Dr Michael Power, Consultant in Anaesthetics / Intensive Care Medicine, Beaumont Hospital
Dr Siobhán Ní Bhriain, Lead for Integrated Care, HSE
Dr Eibhlín Connolly, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Dr Mary Favier, Immediate past president of the ICGP, Covid-19 advisor to the ICGP
Mr David Leach, Communications, HSE
Ms Tracey Conroy, Assistant Secretary, Acute Hospitals Policy Division, DOH
Dr Siobhán O’Sullivan, Chief Bioethics Officer, DOH
Dr Colette Bonner, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Mr Colm Desmond, Assistant Secretary, Corporate Legislation, Mental Health, Drugs Policy and Food Safety Division, DOH
Ms Yvonne O’Neill, National Director, Community Operations, HSE
Dr Desmond Hickey, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Dr Heather Burns, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Dr Darina O’Flanagan, Special Advisor to the NPHET
Mr Fergal Goodman, Assistant Secretary, Primary Care Division, DOH
Dr Breda Smyth, Public Health Specialist, HSE
Mr Tom McGuinness, Assistant National Director for Emergency Management, HSE
Ms Kate O’Flaherty, Head of Health and Wellbeing, DOH
Dr Kathleen MacLellan, Assistant Secretary, Social Care Division, DOH
Ms Deirdre Watters, Communications Unit, DOH
Mr Paul Bolger, Director, Resources Division, DOH
Mr Liam Woods, National Director, Acute Operations, HSE
‘In Attendance’
Ms Marita Kinsella, Director, NPSO, DOH
Mr David Keating, Communicable Diseases Policy Unit, DOH
Ms Laura Casey, Policy and Strategy Division, DOH
Ms Sarah Treleaven, CMO Division, DOH
Mr. Ronan O’Kelly, Health Analytics Division, DOH
Ms. Aoife Gillivan, Higher Executive Officer, Communications Unit
Ms. Ruth Barrett, Policy and Strategy Division, DOH
Ms. Niamh O’Beirne, Policy and Strategy Division, DOH
Ms. Sheona Gilsenan, Senior Health Data Analyst R&D & Health Analytics Division, DOH Ms. Emily de Grae, Policy and Strategy Division, DOH
Dr Matthew Robinson, Specialist Registrar in Public Health, DOH
Mr Gerry O’ Brien, Acting Director, Health Protection Division
Ms Deirdre McNamara, HSE (alternate for Dr Colm Henry)
Ms Jeanette McCallion (alternate for Dr Elaine Breslin)
Ms Carol Grogan (alternate for Mr Phelim Quinn)
Dr Desmond Hickey, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Dr Heather Burns, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Secretariat Apologies
Ms Ruth Brandon, Ms Sorcha Ní Dhúill, Mr Ivan Murphy, Ms Emily Kilroy, Mr Liam Robinson DOH Mr Phelim Quinn, Chief Executive Officer, HIQA
1

Gael23 · 17-10-2020 02:03PM

Is this just a case of Holohan trying to show who’s boss?

Boggles · 17-10-2020 02:03PM

mloc123 wrote: »

And before they ever opened, NPHET kept warning that community transmission was growing and too many people were having too many close contacts... But, people continued to ignore these warnings

I'm not fully comfortable with the blame everyone for everything culture that has grown up around this virus.

If X and Y just stopped doing that we would be grand, I don't buy that.

Don't get me wrong there has been absolute blatant píss takers that have led to massive outbreaks.

But the reality is, what is driving the virus is quite simply life and that includes schools and the 10s of millions of movements around them.

The governments open everything up and pray for the best obviously played it's part.

The HSE are the HSE. Allowing tracking to collapse at below 4% when they were been told repeatedly to beef it up, there response was to draft in the Army Band.

No meaningful surveillance, no proper tracing database, etc, etc.

The Living with Covid plan lasted 19 days, it was a farce when it was launched and it has proven to be a farce since.

If we are going to level 4-5 or whatever, one would hope there would a serious rethink in strategy.

Because what is happening now, was telegraphed in July.

stephenjmcd · 17-10-2020 02:04PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Yesterday when RTE reported that the NPHET letter contained a recommendation of Level 5 for 6 weeks, it referenced "Government sources".

Yet NPHET sources being quoted in this mornings papers.

This works both ways. There's quite clearly people on both sides talking to journalists

Happydays2020 · 17-10-2020 02:05PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

Date and Time Location Chair
National Public Health Emergency Team – COVID-19 Meeting Note – Standing meeting
Thursday 10th September 2020, (Meeting 53) at 10:00am Department of Health, Miesian Plaza, Dublin 2
Dr Ronan Glynn, Acting Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Members via videoconference
Dr Kevin Kelleher, Assistant National Director, Public Health, HSE
Prof Philip Nolan, President, National University of Ireland, Maynooth and Chair of the Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group (IEMAG)
Dr Cillian de Gascun, Laboratory Director, NVRL and Expert Advisory Group (EAG) Chair
Dr Lorraine Doherty, National Clinical Director Health Protection, HSE
Dr Máirín Ryan, Deputy Chief Executive and Director of HTA, HIQA
Dr John Cuddihy, Interim Director, HSE HPSC
Prof Colm Bergin, Consultant in Infectious Diseases, St James’s Hospital
Dr Michael Power, Consultant in Anaesthetics / Intensive Care Medicine, Beaumont Hospital
Dr Siobhán Ní Bhriain, Lead for Integrated Care, HSE
Dr Eibhlín Connolly, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Dr Mary Favier, Immediate past president of the ICGP, Covid-19 advisor to the ICGP
Mr David Leach, Communications, HSE
Ms Tracey Conroy, Assistant Secretary, Acute Hospitals Policy Division, DOH
Dr Siobhán O’Sullivan, Chief Bioethics Officer, DOH
Dr Colette Bonner, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Mr Colm Desmond, Assistant Secretary, Corporate Legislation, Mental Health, Drugs Policy and Food Safety Division, DOH
Ms Yvonne O’Neill, National Director, Community Operations, HSE
Dr Desmond Hickey, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Dr Heather Burns, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Dr Darina O’Flanagan, Special Advisor to the NPHET
Mr Fergal Goodman, Assistant Secretary, Primary Care Division, DOH
Dr Breda Smyth, Public Health Specialist, HSE
Mr Tom McGuinness, Assistant National Director for Emergency Management, HSE
Ms Kate O’Flaherty, Head of Health and Wellbeing, DOH
Dr Kathleen MacLellan, Assistant Secretary, Social Care Division, DOH
Ms Deirdre Watters, Communications Unit, DOH
Mr Paul Bolger, Director, Resources Division, DOH
Mr Liam Woods, National Director, Acute Operations, HSE
‘In Attendance’
Ms Marita Kinsella, Director, NPSO, DOH
Mr David Keating, Communicable Diseases Policy Unit, DOH
Ms Laura Casey, Policy and Strategy Division, DOH
Ms Sarah Treleaven, CMO Division, DOH
Mr. Ronan O’Kelly, Health Analytics Division, DOH
Ms. Aoife Gillivan, Higher Executive Officer, Communications Unit
Ms. Ruth Barrett, Policy and Strategy Division, DOH
Ms. Niamh O’Beirne, Policy and Strategy Division, DOH
Ms. Sheona Gilsenan, Senior Health Data Analyst R&D & Health Analytics Division, DOH Ms. Emily de Grae, Policy and Strategy Division, DOH
Dr Matthew Robinson, Specialist Registrar in Public Health, DOH
Mr Gerry O’ Brien, Acting Director, Health Protection Division
Ms Deirdre McNamara, HSE (alternate for Dr Colm Henry)
Ms Jeanette McCallion (alternate for Dr Elaine Breslin)
Ms Carol Grogan (alternate for Mr Phelim Quinn)
Dr Desmond Hickey, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Dr Heather Burns, Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
Secretariat Apologies
Ms Ruth Brandon, Ms Sorcha Ní Dhúill, Mr Ivan Murphy, Ms Emily Kilroy, Mr Liam Robinson DOH Mr Phelim Quinn, Chief Executive Officer, HIQA
1

Who here in their day jobs does not have responsibility for ICU bed capacity, or the contact tracing regime?

stephenjmcd · 17-10-2020 02:08PM

1031 cases and 2 deaths in NI

is_that_so · 17-10-2020 02:08PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Where ?

Morning papers are NPHET advice to be rejected, "government sources" doing the usual leak to journalists already.

We can see what way this is going

NPHET recommends/orders, the government tweaks. Level 3.989999 coming our way. I they would probably bend to Level 4 but Level 5 is a place they just don't want to go.

mloc123 · 17-10-2020 02:08PM

22% positivity rate up north today

is_that_so · 17-10-2020 02:09PM

mloc123 wrote: »

22% positivity rate up north today

I think that's still rising, that's where we were in March for a bit.

Boggles · 17-10-2020 02:09PM

mloc123 wrote: »

22% positivity rate up north today

That's ridiculous.

I would imagine they are missing half their cases.

Headline figures no longer reliable at that sort of positivity rate.

mloc123 · 17-10-2020 02:12PM

Boggles wrote: »

I'm not fully comfortable with the blame everyone for everything culture that has grown up around this virus.

If X and Y just stopped doing that we would be grand, I don't buy that.

Don't get me wrong there has been absolute blatant píss takers that have led to massive outbreaks.

But the reality is, what is driving the virus is quite simply life and that includes schools and the 10s of millions of movements around them.

The governments open everything up and pray for the best obviously played it's part.

The HSE are the HSE. Allowing tracking to collapse at below 4% when they were been told repeatedly to beef it up, there response was to draft in the Army Band.

No meaningful surveillance, no proper tracing database, etc, etc.

The Living with Covid plan lasted 19 days, it was a farce when it was launched and it has proven to be a farce since.

If we are going to level 4-5 or whatever, one would hope there would a serious rethink in strategy.

Because what is happening now, was telegraphed in July.

I agree with you on this... There is no single source of increased cases, it is across the board because people slowly slipped back to normal life. I am not blaming people, it is simple fatigue.

I disagree that the living with covid plan lasted 19 days... It didn't even last 1 day, it was launched and on day 1 Dublin was on level 2.75...

ACitizenErased · 17-10-2020 02:12PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

1031 cases and 2 deaths in NI

From just 4600 tests....

speckle · 17-10-2020 02:13PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Wife’s asthma playing up the last few days. Got cough yesterday lunch time, and rang the doc who gave her steroid and antibiotic straight away, but also scheduled test, which will be at 2:30. Heading off to the test centre in 20minutes.

Usually the doc waits till she is much worse before prescribing the steroids, but it has cleared it up straight away with the early intervention this time, so getting test with no symptoms remaining

Wishing you and your wife good health a negative test and speedy recovery.

SusanC10 · 17-10-2020 02:14PM

mloc123 wrote: »

I agree with you on this... There is no single source of increased cases, it is across the board because people slowly slipped back to normal life. I am not blaming people, it is simple fatigue.

It is also people thinking that it doesn't matter if they individually don't follow the restrictions. But it's the cumulative effect of people not following the restrictions.

mloc123 · 17-10-2020 02:14PM

is_that_so wrote: »

I think that's still rising, that's where we were in March for a bit.

Yup, back when you needed 2-3 symptoms to get tested... Safe to say they are missing a lot of cases up there.

ACitizenErased · 17-10-2020 02:30PM

Slovakia is the test the entire population over the course of 2 weekends.
https://dennikn.sk/minuta/2092868/?ref=mpm

bb1234567 · 17-10-2020 02:32PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Slovakia is the test the entire population over the course of 2 weekends.
https://dennikn.sk/minuta/2092868/?ref=mpm

That will be extremely valuable information, will give a much clearer indication of rate of asymptomatic infection

jopax · 17-10-2020 02:32PM

Is there any indication of figures out today?

eagle eye · 17-10-2020 02:34PM

Tenzor07 wrote:

A terrific job at leaking out information

Even the media admitted that members of the government leaked the information.

Turtwig · 17-10-2020 02:35PM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

With a highly political figure like Dr. Death Holohan stepping outside of NPHET's primary function of advising Cabinet I think it's time we swapped these Experts for some experts who are at the top of their particular areas of expertise

Such as Ivor Cummins?

Covid 19 Part XXVI- 50,993 ROI (1,852 deaths) 28,040 NI (621 deaths) (19/10) Read OP

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