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When will the college degree 'bubble' burst?

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    #62
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    There is more to wealth than digits on a bank computer.

    But it’s always nicer to get your food from a shop instead of a bin.


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    #63
    Kaybaykwah
    Registered Users Posts: 3,116 ✭✭✭Kaybaykwah


    JustAThought wrote: »
    We have a system
    where you can specialise - postgrad
    or masters - buy I agree in principle with you - you can’t easily do generalised languages or science and then easily transition to do physio or medicine - which is ironic as it is your LC which compromises a mix of languages, history, sciences etc that allows you build the points to get
    into that as an undergrad! Funny how it is allowed age 18 but not aged 21!

    Some European countries still have the old classical system of education where a well
    rounded person with multiple strains of knowledge is the desired end result - they study languages, history, geography, maths, the sciences, astrology, the environment, and do modules in personal
    wellbeing and fitness (PR) as well as skills like cooking and nutrition. Then they choose what to study in college but even if they don’t they have a much broader skill base for life than outs where we are narrowing the field and perspective day by day.


    You can see now with the state
    funded second ‘degree’ courses that they do not allow you typically
    to cross over subjects and do a masters postgrad in science ( eg environmental science) if your original degree was finance, or food technology if your original degree was law - for funding they are still thinking in fixed boxes and narrow paths based on what you thought or chosen when you were 18. Its the narrow mindedness and waste of it that galls - thinking like 1950’s Ireland in 2020
    when the world and pace and freedoms make it a very different place.

    Astrology, you sure?


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    #64
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kaybaykwah wrote: »
    Astrology, you sure?

    Yes, I'm sure. Uranus is in opposition.


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    #65
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    As a recent law graduate with a good average score, I'm not seeing the worth of it as it stands. There is hardly any entry level legal jobs at the minute. Maybe it's purely a matter of how the market is at this minute, but getting a legal job at the moment seems like a tough task. If everything continues as is, I'll be seriously considering an apprenticeship in another field.

    Specialize, distinguish yourself from the competition, complement your qualifications with something else, diversify.

    College graduates with good average scores are two a penny. They all think they are great but the recruiter just sees the same thing in nearly all of them.

    Find a USP. Or a few USP’s


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    #66
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    As a recent law graduate with a good average score, I'm not seeing the worth of it as it stands. There is hardly any entry level legal jobs at the minute. Maybe it's purely a matter of how the market is at this minute, but getting a legal job at the moment seems like a tough task. If everything continues as is, I'll be seriously considering an apprenticeship in another field.
    Why only apply for "legal" jobs? Law is a very transferable skill and employers in general offices, the civil service, banking, insurance etc etc will all value it.


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    #67
    JimmyVik
    Registered Users Posts: 5,368 ✭✭✭JimmyVik


    When I was at uni myself and a classmate did our work experience in AIB.
    We then went back to do our final exams.
    We were offered jobs in AIB even before we did our exams.
    My classmate was much better than me at everything, but not at actual exams.
    He ended up with a 3.1 in his exams and AIBs HR took back their job offer.
    But someone in there wanted him and had to find a way to hire him.
    About a month after I started he walked in the door.
    They had to jump through hoops and hire him in a different job, even though we were doing the same job.
    They were not allowed to hire him because he didnt get a 2.1, yet they knew how good he was and had to be their hiring system, so the hr people could be hoodwinked and hire him.
    He was on a lot less money than I was, yet he was much better at the job, which he excelled at.
    Totally needless bureaucracy.


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    #68
    John Hutton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭John Hutton


    JustAThought wrote: »
    We have a system
    where you can specialise - postgrad
    or masters - buy I agree in principle with you - you can’t easily do generalised languages or science and then easily transition to do physio or medicine - which is ironic as it is your LC which compromises a mix of languages, history, sciences etc that allows you build the points to get
    into that as an undergrad! Funny how it is allowed age 18 but not aged 21!

    Some European countries still have the old classical system of education where a well
    rounded person with multiple strains of knowledge is the desired end result - they study languages, history, geography, maths, the sciences, astrology, the environment, and do modules in personal
    wellbeing and fitness (PR) as well as skills like cooking and nutrition. Then they choose what to study in college but even if they don’t they have a much broader skill base for life than outs where we are narrowing the field and perspective day by day.


    You can see now with the state
    funded second ‘degree’ courses that they do not allow you typically
    to cross over subjects and do a masters postgrad in science ( eg environmental science) if your original degree was finance, or food technology if your original degree was law - for funding they are still thinking in fixed boxes and narrow paths based on what you thought or chosen when you were 18. Its the narrow mindedness and waste of it that galls - thinking like 1950’s Ireland in 2020
    when the world and pace and freedoms make it a very different place.
    In my experience, both personally and with my staff, masters are of very limited practical application. (But are still worthwhile)


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    #69
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    I did a national certificate in horticulture in the 90s.
    It was hard going and then I did a diploma course afterwards.

    The degree graduates in horticulture nowadays aren't up to scratch and feel insulted if you ask them to plant a tree or weed a bed.
    I'm well up in the game, I'll still rake, weed and maintain a garden.
    The graduates all fancy themselves as Monty Don, Diarmud Gavin, Charlie Dimoch or Carolyn Spray.... far from it.

    If you want to be like those people you have to start at the bottom and work hard at it.

    It's amazing that a national cert in Horticulture back in1995 is more intensive than a degree course in 2019+

    Go figure...


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    #70
    landofthetree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,307 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    When anybody can practice as a doctor without going to college.


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    #71
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    landofthetree wrote: »
    When anybody can practice as a doctor without going to college.


    Easy


    https://youtu.be/VA770wpLX-Q


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    #72
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    When does someone think this will burst? Not as much of an issue in Ireland but it seems that places like the U.S. or Canada have thousands of students going to college, many who either have no idea what to do, no ability to do the course they choose and/or no money but go anyway. They come out 4+ years with a crappy degree and end up working as a Barista.

    It said that a Bachelors is the new H.S. diploma. In the 50-80s, you could graduate secondary school, get a factory job and support yourself and a whole family by the age of 20. Nowadays, people are still living with mommy and daddy up until 30. And the competition for jobs is enormous even with a degree.

    What do you think the future of education is?

    In the 50s everyone emigrated, in the 60s everyone emigrated, in the 80s everyone emigrated. What the hell are you taking about?


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    #73
    excludedbin
    Registered Users Posts: 241 ✭✭excludedbin


    Donald Trump wrote: »
    There is more to wealth than digits on a bank computer.
    Y'know, it's funny - the same people will cry about 'erosion of culture' but then turn around and sneer at anyone who actually contributes to our cultural landscape. Well, we all know the old saying about cynics, I suppose.


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    #74
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Achebe wrote: »
    You later told Aonghus Von Bismarck and Permabear about this at your ski lodge in the Swiss Alps.

    Unlike that user my life is real, a comfortable existence is hardly wild enough to be unattainable.


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    #75
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    In the 50s everyone emigrated, in the 60s everyone emigrated, in the 80s everyone emigrated. What the hell are you taking about?

    Ahhhhhhh "The good old days" I regularly hear longed for :pac:


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    #76
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    In the 50s everyone emigrated, in the 60s everyone emigrated, in the 80s everyone emigrated. What the hell are you taking about?

    Not to mention that half our population (women) werent in the workforce and these houses that could be bought so cheap had no central heating or indoor toilets for the mostpart


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    #77
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    John Hutton wrote: »
    In my experience, both personally and with my staff, masters are of very limited practical application. (But are still worthwhile)

    Personal attitude does a lot of it too.

    Iv seen a science grad join one of our maintenance teams and become a very good engineer, Iv alao had a masters qualified engineer have to be pushed and dragged and stood over to get any work out of him. :mad:


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    #78
    Dyr
    Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    ancapailldorcha wrote: »
    For myself, I was thinking more about something in the financial services sector, IT or something similar. I wouldn't want a doctor or a dentist who'd qualified by a one-year FETAC (if that's still going on) course.

    Some IT roles and companies will look for a degree, a lot have a preference for professional qualifications as college curriculums are seen as behind the curve and less relevant


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    #79
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Bambi wrote: »
    Some IT roles and companies will look for a degree, a lot have a preference for professional qualifications as college curriculums are seen as behind the curve and less relevant

    Outside of multinationals (who are coming on stream) professional certs and experience are king in IT . Anyone who wants a job in IT support id reccomend doing 2-3 years graft as a helpdesk tech and get an N+ and some microsoft certs along the way, youd stroll into a 40+k a year role before youre 30 and as experience grows that pay does. Its not unusual to end up on 70-80k a year having only spent 10k on certs (or sometimes employers subsidise) and under 40.


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    #80
    sheepsh4gger
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭sheepsh4gger


    mr_fegelien wrote: »
    When does someone think this will burst? Not as much of an issue in Ireland but it seems that places like the U.S. or Canada have thousands of students going to college, many who either have no idea what to do, no ability to do the course they choose and/or no money but go anyway. They come out 4+ years with a crappy degree and end up working as a Barista.

    It said that a Bachelors is the new H.S. diploma. In the 50-80s, you could graduate secondary school, get a factory job and support yourself and a whole family by the age of 20. Nowadays, people are still living with mommy and daddy up until 30. And the competition for jobs is enormous even with a degree.

    What do you think the future of education is?


    Basically everything will be online. Some guy will watch you from 2 webcams as you write your exam.


    It will burst when the money printing stops, same as housing.


    It's funny to see all of these professors do classes over Zoom, this gives parents an opportunity to listen in and realize the faculty is indoctrinating their children with extremist ideology.


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    #81
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    sheepsh4gger wrote: »
    It's funny to see all of these professors do classes over Zoom, this gives parents an opportunity to listen in and realize the faculty is indoctrinating their children with extremist ideology.

    I have never heard electrical theory described that way before but shur I learn something new every day :pac:


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    #82
    PommieBast
    Registered Users Posts: 2,621 ✭✭✭PommieBast


    sheepsh4gger wrote: »
    It's funny to see all of these professors do classes over Zoom, this gives parents an opportunity to listen in and realize the faculty is indoctrinating their children with extremist ideology.
    More likely they'll realise that a lot of lectures are little better than just reading the slides. Most don't have the teaching skills required to indoctrinate..


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    #83
    BattleCorp
    Registered Users Posts: 11,759 ✭✭✭✭BattleCorp


    The college degree thing has certainly worked for me and helped me in my career.

    A good few years ago my line manager left. I applied for her job and got turned down as I didn't have the required qualifications (degree etc.). I got a bit of a hump but got on with things and continued working.

    Then the following year I asked would the company consider sending me to college to get qualified to do my line manager's job. The company agreed and I successfully completed a HDip in UCD.

    A year after that, my line manager left and I applied for the job and got it. I'm now working in that job.

    To be honest, without the knowledge I learned on the HDip I really wouldn't have been able to do the job had they given it to me when I first applied.


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    #84
    sheepsh4gger
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭sheepsh4gger


    PommieBast wrote: »
    More likely they'll realise that a lot of lectures are little better than just reading the slides. Most don't have the teaching skills required to indoctrinate..


    Wait until your math lecturer says that math is waaaycist and you will be required to use 'common core'.


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    #85
    Mango Joe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,179 ✭✭✭Mango Joe


    Leaving aside the debates about the pros and cons of a University education.

    An odd look at LinkedIn where some people walk straight from school or University into quite senior & well paid jobs is quite shocking.

    I presume its either old-fashioned nepotism or else just they have really, really good oral sex techniques.


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    #86
    sheepsh4gger
    Registered Users Posts: 622 ✭✭✭sheepsh4gger


    I think people will be hired guns, working for themselves instead of dealing with HR ladies.
    Lots of guys will go into trades. I hear a diesel engineer basically prints money. But of course women don't want to date tradesmen because they think their college degree in sociology that got them a job at Starbucks makes them superior.


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    #87
    BrianD3
    Registered Users Posts: 8,315 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Mango Joe wrote: »
    Leaving aside the debates about the pros and cons of a University education.

    An odd look at LinkedIn where some people walk straight from school or University into quite senior & well paid jobs is quite shocking.

    I presume its either old-fashioned nepotism or else just they have really, really good oral sex techniques.
    Not sure if serious? The reason why people appear to walk into senior jobs out of college is because they are lying on their linkedin profiles and are "forgetting" to include the job titles they had at the start of their career.

    Words that people like to use on linkedin:

    Senior
    Director
    Executive
    Lead
    Manager
    Engineer

    Words that they don't like to use:

    Graduate
    Clerical
    Technician
    Assistant
    Intern


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    #88
    Topgear on Dave
    Registered Users Posts: 4,535 ✭✭✭Topgear on Dave


    Mango Joe wrote: »
    An odd look at LinkedIn where some people walk straight from school or University into quite senior & well paid jobs is quite shocking.

    .

    From checking out the linkedin of a few of our grads over the years I can tell you that the truth is often ehhhhh.... stretched on there.


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    #89
    Orange Tiny Terror
    Registered Users Posts: 35 ✭Orange Tiny Terror


    There’s more to life than what job you have.


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    #90
    Jimmy Bottlehead
    Registered Users Posts: 10,118 ✭✭✭✭Jimmy Bottlehead


    Seems to be a lot of bitterness, resentment and so forth toward those with third level educations on here, specifically from those without.

    There's no reason to look down on about someone who studied four 3-4 years, obtained a third level degree, found themselves in an unfavourable job market and are "working in Starbucks" to pay the bills.

    As for my own experience, my fairly extensive education (once it finishes) will leave me with a very well paid job for life. In this field, PhD/doctoral level education is required (minimum 7 years of study, most are closer to 10 years), and I'm very glad the standard is that high as it's not something that someone with a one-year professional qualification should or could do.


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    #91
    lawrencesummers
    Registered Users Posts: 8,536 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    Orange Tiny Terror wrote: »
    There’s more to life than what job you have.

    There sure is, but very often the job you have decides how much more.


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