When will the college degree 'bubble' burst?

mr_fegelien

When does someone think this will burst? Not as much of an issue in Ireland but it seems that places like the U.S. or Canada have thousands of students going to college, many who either have no idea what to do, no ability to do the course they choose and/or no money but go anyway. They come out 4+ years with a crappy degree and end up working as a Barista.

It said that a Bachelors is the new H.S. diploma. In the 50-80s, you could graduate secondary school, get a factory job and support yourself and a whole family by the age of 20. Nowadays, people are still living with mommy and daddy up until 30. And the competition for jobs is enormous even with a degree.

What do you think the future of education is?

Donald Trump

It's people's own fault for wasting 4 years out in Belfield. Granted, everyone needs to find their own level and make the most of it, but there has to be a limit to such useless waste of time and money. They should have studied harder for the Leaving

Jimmy Bottlehead

mr_fegelien wrote: »

When does someone think this will burst? Not as much of an issue in Ireland but it seems that places like the U.S. or Canada have thousands of students going to college, many who either have no idea what to do, no ability to do the course they choose and/or no money but go anyway. They come out 4+ years with a crappy degree and end up working as a Barista.

It said that a Bachelors is the new H.S. diploma. In the 50-80s, you could graduate secondary school, get a factory job and support yourself and a whole family by the age of 20. Nowadays, people are still living with mommy and daddy up until 30. And the competition for jobs is enormous even with a degree.

What do you think the future of education is?

They end up posting endless numbers of inane threads on Boards.ie

Eric Cartman

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

Donald Trump

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

There is more to wealth than digits on a bank computer.

Esse85

There should be more value and emphasis placed on apprenticeships and on the job training, rather than continuously studying theory.

Many of these degrees/masters don't prepare the person for the working environment.

People get sucked into the marketing hype that colleges spew out about their courses, what people need to realise is, colleges are businesses and need to market and sell their courses to get bums on seats. That's their primary concern, not whether you get a job/career at the end of it.

con747

I faintly hear a 1982 Whitesnake song Mr Feg.

mr_fegelien

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

Is a psychology degree bull****? I know a smart Colombian/Irish girl who studied psychology at Trinity. The points are 555 so it's pretty damn high.

from what I read, psychology is not even a soft science and considered as useless as journalism.

mr_fegelien

Donald Trump wrote: »

There is more to wealth than digits on a bank computer.

Tell that to the homeless man who gets rained on and gets kicked/urinated on by passers by because he can't afford adequate housing.

Without money, you are nothing in this world. Money can't guarantee 100% happiness but a lack of money can guarantee 100% misery.

Mr Meanor

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

Funny, earlier this year I was talking to a high flying management guy I knew who was flying over to the states for his MNC to get rid of a whole lot of IT guys.
He originally had joined the management in that company with a masters in journalism.

Eric Cartman

Mr Meanor wrote: »

Funny, earlier this year I was talking to a high flying management guy I knew who was flying over to the states for his MNC to get rid of a whole lot of IT guys.
He originally had joined the management in that company with a masters in journalism.

This is my point, your undergrad doesnt necissarily return good results, theres more than a degree that decides success

Bass Reeves

At the end of any training course you should be trained to complete a job....any job but at least a job. There are many courses that provide you with these skills ....but there is a good many that give you a generic degree. There is a lot of certificate and diploma courses that are better options than doing a degree.

I always remember about twenty years ago I was attending a training course in the big smoke. We were up for two weeks and on an allowance rather than expenses. John ( lord to mercy on him) was with me and we got booked into a BnB/ digs on the outskirts of Dublin.

The land lady bought us in and after introduction's started to show us photos of her son who was in his late 20's early 30's with his degrees, master's and God knows what else.

Now before I continue I will skip a bit. Over the next week I noticed ( with John's teaching he was 10-12 years older than me) that here were a very well off couple, of ordinary stock that worked hard. He was a builder( an opposed to a developer but nowadays he be referred to as a developer) and his wife the landlady who ran a BnB in a well to do area on the Northside of Dublin.

So here were this couple with a massive house on nearly 2 acres, with houses along on a row that were on 3/4 to an acre sites that it seemed he built overlooking the sea.

There son was doing his doctorate in Trinity College. Along with myself and John who had breakfast at about 8.,00 she had tradesmen having it at 6.30-7.00pm. To this day I remember Johns reposte as we stood there looking at them that first day...

''Bass beware none of yours become professional students''

Mr Meanor

Eric Cartman wrote: »

This is my point, your undergrad doesnt necissarily return good results, theres more than a degree that decides success

Actually I think you missed the point entirely, but it's a masters thing.

What.Now

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Tell that to the homeless man who gets rained on and gets kicked/urinated on by passers by because he can't afford adequate housing.

Without money, you are nothing in this world. Money can't guarantee 100% happiness but a lack of money can guarantee 100% misery.

I think you slightly missed his point, Donald can correct me if I've taken him out of context but I don't believe he used the word Wealth solely as a materialistic point but as a general being of the person.

The person who is pissing on the poor unfortunate (who lets be fair most likely does not have any sort of degree) may have a degree of some sorts, but the pure fact that they are pissing on a homeless person to me shows a lack of wealth of knowledge, integrity possibility patience and probably a lot more human traits of humanity.

Achebe

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

You later told Aonghus Von Bismarck and Permabear about this at your ski lodge in the Swiss Alps.

gar32

https://www.glassdoor.com/blog/no-degree-required/

Life skills and experience will get you into some places. But most still want that bit of paper to prove you can stick out the pain of working life LOL

Gervais08

Achebe wrote: »

You later told Aonghus Von Bismarck and Permabear about this at your ski lodge in the Swiss Alps.

The plumber who serviced a mate’s boiler drove a Range Rover, not an A Level to his name but my God he could buy and sell ye!!!

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

Did you ask recently how he's getting on repaying the finance on his Porsche from his coffee chain business?

FTA69

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

Lol Range Rover and Porsche, couldn’t think of two bigger twat models of car if I tried. Imagine having your chest puffed out over two youngones working in a coffee shop having gone to college.

Snotty

People's abilities always shine through, the top class surgeon would probably still be top of his field if he didn't go to college and tried his hand at something else.
The problem is people with zero ability and sense still think a degree/masters will get them a top job and instead they end up working in something dead end and complain about how it was easier for their parents.

Gervais08

Snotty wrote: »

People's abilities always shine through, the top class surgeon would probably still be top of his field if he didn't go to college and tried his hand at something else.
The problem is people with zero ability and sense still think a degree/masters will get them a top job and instead they end up working in something dead end and complain about how it was easier for their parents.

This - a million.

Mules

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Is a psychology degree bull****? I know a smart Colombian/Irish girl who studied psychology at Trinity. The points are 555 so it's pretty damn high.

from what I read, psychology is not even a soft science and considered as useless as journalism.

Accidentally upvoted you. It is a soft science and like other mainstream degrees it's useful for a lot of jobs as it shows the person is able to think critically. There's a surprising amount of statistics in it also.

FTA69

I came back from England at 21 and decided I wanted to do a degree in university. I was always good at history and geography at school so decided to do that with an eye on becoming a teacher when I was finished. The idea that STEM is the only thing people should be learning is short sighted philistine nonsense to be honest. Yes society needs scientists, it also needs linguists and artists and all of that craic. These things as a whole make for a richer culture and society in general. The idea that education’s sole purpose in life should be to create workers for corporations is dystopian in the extreme.

That having been said, when I was in college the vast majority of my fellow students in these subjects hadn’t a clue. Like third year history in a class about the USSR and people not knowing who Stalin was, it was clear that university for them was more about a holding pen or vague ‘experience’ (eg getting lashed every second day). Grade inflation and dumbing down of courses in humanities is also definitely a thing.

Personally I’d much rather a return to on the job training and apprenticeships into work. It would be better for a lot of people involved.

KaneToad

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

Education is never a waste of time. Don't confuse education with job training.

Mules

The thing is, employers expect a piece of paper for jobs where it was unnecessary in the past. The jobs haven't changed it's just that more people have degrees. I definitely think there should be more encouragement to take up apprenticeships. That's a better route in to a lot of jobs and for some people who struggle through college, practical work might be better than theory. But absolutely, education isn't just about getting a job

There's also a thing in Ireland where a degree is considered better than learning a trade, so maybe there's a bit of snobbery there too. It makes no sense to me.

Sebastian Dangerfield

My degree is next to useless in practical terms. I don't recall using more than maybe 2% of it in my career of 15 years so far. I would say practical experience in all the sh1tty jobs I did provided far more to my skillset. That said, every job I looked at had a degree as a requirement so without it, I wouldn't have this career. I can think of two people I hired with Masters who really struggled, because they couldn't look someone in the eye when they spoke to them, and panicked at the first sign of conflict / anything going off script. I should note that wasn't the case of everyone, we had some very good, highly educated people too.

I think we have it all wrong here in many ways. I work in financial services, and spent some time working in Paris. Over there bigger firms partner with universities so that students can combine work and education. Their work benefits their education, allows them to earn some money, gain some practical experience, and build a network. For example a lot of people also started in the internal audit function, with the stated objective of allowing them to experience as many different departments as they could, so they could hone in on the ones they liked later.

Here the route seems to be degree, bang out NAVs endlessly for all hours without complaint for 5 years, then if you can still stomach it, you can branch out into something else.

Sardonicat

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

As they say, ignorance is bliss.

DeconSheridan

College degrees are a good starting place providing fundamental -> master level knowledge of a subject matter to allow someone to excel in a chosen field becoming an expert through further learning and experience in the workplace. A degree is not the end its the beginning. Someone who achieved a H1 (L8 Hons)Degree in Engineering will most likely grasp and own a subject matter a lot faster than a H4 (L7 Ordinary) Degree in engineering guy. Who do you think will get the job or project!

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

How is the city center coffee shop doing these days?

Dyr

gar32 wrote: »

https://www.glassdoor.com/blog/no-degree-required/

Life skills and experience will get you into some places. But most still want that bit of paper to prove you can stick out the pain of working life LOL

That's the reality as long as jobs are still looking for degrees for every role the bubble will remain but people are copping on that most university degrees are worthless. We don't really look from them now in our field because there's more relevant qualifications that candidates can have.


There was a movement to try shoehorn the Arts into STEM (calling it STEAM) and movements to decolonialize Maths lol, that theres now talk in the States of some STEM fields leaving the univeristy system to decouple itself from the woke lunacy rampant in 3rd level

Eric Cartman

mariaalice wrote: »

How is the city center coffee shop doing these days?

Id imagine not well, leaving those staff with degrees and masters out of pocket.

Degree inflation has really become a big issue these days, I think its sad that students are being told its the only path to success.

We need a robust strategy of welcoming more apprenticeships and not seeing it as a lesser way to go after school than college. We also need to start telling students that they're better off picking a degree with good career prospects rather than just giving colleges money for the ever longer list of 'passion project' degrees out there.

But also train kids in school in basic business skills and entrepreneurship, the way forward isn't always third level and I know myself I just wasted two years of my life in college because it was the done thing, not because it was what I wanted to do.

Eric Cartman

FTA69 wrote: »

Lol Range Rover and Porsche, couldn’t think of two bigger twat models of car if I tried. Imagine having your chest puffed out over two youngones working in a coffee shop having gone to college.

why did you assume they were women ?

gmisk

I think a college degree in a related and practical area to role you work in will always be useful.
There are a lot of nonsense degrees out there. Which are definitely a waste of time and they seem to be growing in number.
I did a bsc hons in computer science, it was hugely practical, I went onto do a masters in a related area. I have found them both really useful and its pretty hard to progress in some areas of work without specific qualifications.

gmisk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

why did you assume they were women ?

I don't think that poster did? I think they just said two young ones? That could be male or female probably?

FTA69

Eric Cartman wrote: »

why did you assume they were women ?

There was me thinking you were anti the auld wokeness.

JimmyVik

I have a nice sciency degree that i used to get me my job.
I think I am doing very well in it, and I wouldnt have got that without the degree.

Ive worked on many building sites with my brothers and my Dad on houses we bought and renovated together as side projects. Not able for it. Im much better at pointing than grafting
I couldnt get a job as a Barista.
I probably wouldnt get a job driving a train or a bus or a luas.
Horses for courses.

But something thats always bothered me.
I know a lot of people who have gone back to college in their late 20s early 30s.
Why do they always seem to do psychology? At least 90% of them that i know of do psychology when going back to uni.

Eric Cartman

gmisk wrote: »

I don't think that poster did? I think they just said two young ones? That could be male or female probably?

a 'young wan' 'young one' would usually be slang to refer to a woman. If I'm mistaken then fair, in this case one of the lads behind the counter was definitely older than I was. I know not everyone wants to achieve as highly in their career but having a masters and working minimum wage in your mid 30s just doesn't sit right, he was sold a dream by career guidance teachers and a university when they should have realistically said 'this masters probably won't pay the bills'

the purple tin

It's like Tom Baker said on the American version of Little Britain 'Before going to work at Starbucks, many Americans like to spend four years at college' :pac:

Eric Cartman

JimmyVik wrote: »

I have a nice sciency degree that i used to get me my job.
I think I am doing very well in it, and I wouldnt have got that without the degree.

Ive worked on many building sites with my brothers and my Dad on houses we bought and renovated together as side projects. Not able for it. Im much better at pointing than grafting
I couldnt get a job as a Barista.
I probably wouldnt get a job driving a train or a bus or a luas.
Horses for courses.

But something thats always bothered me.
I know a lot of people who have gone back to college in their late 20s early 30s.
Why do they always seem to do psychology? At least 90% of them that i know of do psychology when going back to uni.

this, I've noticed this too, its the most over subscribed degree program I can think of, theres few career prospects in it relative to the amount of people qualified. I think its the most official/high ranking sounding arts degree so they can chat crap at parties about having it.

Eric Cartman

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Id imagine not well, leaving those staff with degrees and masters out of pocket.

Degree inflation has really become a big issue these days, I think its sad that students are being told its the only path to success.

We need a robust strategy of welcoming more apprenticeships and not seeing it as a lesser way to go after school than college. We also need to start telling students that they're better off picking a degree with good career prospects rather than just giving colleges money for the ever longer list of 'passion project' degrees out there.

But also train kids in school in basic business skills and entrepreneurship, the way forward isn't always third level and I know myself I just wasted two years of my life in college because it was the done thing, not because it was what I wanted to do.

Luck and head down hard work, play the biggest part and personality does play a large part too.

Or else how come two individuals do some construction apprenticeship they are making a fortune working self-employed, one ends up a small property developer and does very well for themselves one partied and has very little.

They both have the same qualifications.

Eric Cartman

mariaalice wrote: »

Luck and head down hard work, play the biggest part and personality does play a large part too.

Or else how come two individuals do some construction apprenticeship they are making a fortune working self-employed, one ends up a small property developer and does very well for themselves one partied and has very little.

They both have the same qualifications.

exactly. But nobody tells students that, the prospectus just says 'do a psychology degree , heres an example of somebody who did who now makes 60k a year and has a fancy title , guidance councillors 'you have to do a degree to not end up stacking shelves' , These people need to be honest with these kids and say 'here this is only a piece of paper that is helpful most of the time, required for a few things but you're still going to have to get experience, do professional certs and work quite hard to achieve the 'prospectus quoted sallary'

thomas 123

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Nowadays, people are still living with mommy and daddy up until 30. And the competition for jobs is enormous even with a degree.

I think you will find that is more to do with inflation and the lack of rise in wages to meet inflation, mostly in the prices of houses and land.

I see sheep

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

Dickhead

PommieBast

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Degree inflation has really become a big issue these days, I think its sad that students are being told its the only path to success.

Dunno how things developed in Ireland but in my own country the policy of getting 50% of people into uni simply resulted in degree results being used as a HR tool for thinning out piles of CVs. I did CS for my first degree but my guess is that about half of us already had enough programming experience to go straight into industry.

galway_cowboy

Too many people are being funneled into college. There's absolutely nothing wrong with learning a trade/apprecenticship etc etc. But then that doesn't swell the universities coffers nor play well with Government expectations of a "smart economy".

Tisn't easy for graduates when employers are looking for twenty years experience. Experience will always triumph over a degree.

A lot of jobs grossly overstate their difficulty.

aero2k

Mules wrote: »

There's also a thing in Ireland where a degree is considered better than learning a trade, so maybe there's a bit of snobbery there too. It makes no sense to me.

That's always bothered me, along with the assumption (I'm talking late 70's early 80's) that less academically inclined kids should be sent to the "tech" with an apprenticeship as a follow-on while the rest went to the convent or CBS and on to university, or maybe into the civil service.

In many European countries, having a trade is much more appreciated than here - the title of master carpenter would be as prestigious as teacher, engineer or scientist. In Germany I believe there are over 600 different apprenticeships. I visited one medium sized company a few years back and they had partnered with a local college to develop qualifications specific to their workplace which were a mix of practical and theory. Seemed like an eminently sensible approach.

That said I think education can be incredibly valuable - there's no harm in doing a degree for it's own sake if you can afford it. Expecting a piece of paper to be a passport to riches and an easy life can backfire though.

BrianD3

It should be obvious that the more people that have degrees, the less valuable a degree becomes and that it may be wise for an individual to consider not playing the education arms race game.

The most valuable degrees are those for which there are barriers to entry, that lead to professional status or are a legal requirement to work in a particular area. i.e. pharmacy, medicine, veterinary, dentistry.

Things are a bit more open now but it's not too long ago that there was one pharmacy degree in Ireland with 50 places each year. There were also various rules designed to protect the status and income of the profession e.g. not being allowed to open a pharmacy within a certain distance of an existing one and legally discriminating against graduates from UK institutions

Degrees in software eng/computer application etc. can currently lead to good careers but which are subject to the influence of globalisation and the free market.

Other STEM areas - I am a scientist and would not encourage anyone to do a science degree in the areas of chemistry, physics or biology I have done fairly well for myself but know far too many good people who have struggled for years. There is a huge amount of hyped up bulls*t in the media from vested interests (IBEC, the universities, the pharma industry) regarding STEM degrees and careers. Then you have the university professors on 100k+ who think something like Biochemistry is a great degree/career and are too stupid/detached/blinkered to consider their own survivorship bias or to consider that the world may be very different now than when they completed their PhD..

Mules

What I don't get is why there's such a big push to get women in to stem subjects. There isn't the same push to get men in to nursing and teaching. What's the problem with people doing what they are interested in. Sometime people's interests do confirm to gender stereotypes.

I know a woman who was very ambitious for her daughters, she had them all do engineering and they hated it. They retrained to become teachers and doctors.

Mules

That's another thing about a psychology degree. You need it to become a psychologist. Although lots of people dont go on to the the phd and you need that too.

gmisk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

a 'young wan' 'young one' would usually be slang to refer to a woman. If I'm mistaken then fair, in this case one of the lads behind the counter was definitely older than I was. I know not everyone wants to achieve as highly in their career but having a masters and working minimum wage in your mid 30s just doesn't sit right, he was sold a dream by career guidance teachers and a university when they should have realistically said 'this masters probably won't pay the bills'

Ah ok I had no idea tbh thought it was just a slang term for a younger person.
I agree with what your saying tbh.
Little point in working your ass off not to mention the cost to get a degree and masters and be working a minimum wage job