When will the college degree 'bubble' burst?

James Brown

Heard this many years ago too.
At the end of the day an employer will likely take a degree over a leaving/HS diploma. Or experience and a degree over experience and the leaving/high school diploma.
Certain jobs won't look at you without one or both.
If you worked for years as a manger then had to take a job in McDonald's, all most will see is a lad works in McDonald's. So qulafications, certs and what not help.

Graces7

DeconSheridan wrote: »

College degrees are a good starting place providing fundamental -> master level knowledge of a subject matter to allow someone to excel in a chosen field becoming an expert through further learning and experience in the workplace. A degree is not the end its the beginning. Someone who achieved a H1 (L8 Hons)Degree in Engineering will most likely grasp and own a subject matter a lot faster than a H4 (L7 Ordinary) Degree in engineering guy. Who do you think will get the job or project!

They also show you are capable of following a course through. Of staying power and focus.

lalababa

mr_fegelien wrote: »

Tell that to the homeless man who gets rained on and gets kicked/urinated on by passers by because he can't afford adequate housing.

Without money, you are nothing in this world. Money can't guarantee 100% happiness but a lack of money can guarantee 100% misery.

Missed the point.....land rover & porsche.

marieholmfan

She had to go and live in New York.

All that education and she couldn't even get a job in Ireland.

Sad.

metaoblivia wrote: »

I have a friend who worked for years as a barista in NYC. Oh, OP you would have laughed at her. So typical. Majored in Photography, moved to NYC after college, had these big dreams. Worked as a barista for years, up until about 30. But while she was doing that, she was building her career as a freelance photographer on the side. She had a particular interest in artists and musicians. She built relationships with bands, clubs, even venues and did great work for them. So at around 30, she was able to quit her job as a barista.

Now her full time job is freelance photography, specializing in musicians and live performance shoots. Her career is literally going to amazing clubs in NYC every night and shooting bands for magazines, for the bands' own promotional materials, etc. She also shoots events at big NYC venues. She does some standard work too, like weddings and portraits. But the bulk of her work are the musician and live event shoots. She's still young - she's got a lot of growing left to do in her career. It took some time to build up the foundation to make it as a freelancer, but now she has a way cooler job than someone who works in finance (aka me ).

And I have other friends with similar stories. They majored in the arts. For a time, they worked some job you would look down on while hustling on the side to build their actual careers. And the ones who persisted - they're all thriving. None of them are working service jobs anymore. Others pivoted into something more typical like finance or HR and their degrees weren't a significant hurdle. So they're doing well too.

My point is that the career path of someone who majors in the arts is different than the path of someone who majors in STEM. A STEM grad may spend their 20s climbing the corporate ladder at some company, but that's not the peak of their career, right? An arts grad may end up working as a barista or a grocery clerk or a waiter in their 20s, but that's not the peak of their career either. They've chosen a path that requires some risk, a lot of hustle, and a big helping of humility. They know the odds are against them but they go for it anyway. And the ones who are persistent and lean in to the risk, the hustle and the humility often end up succeeding. That may not mean making six figures or having a big house, but they make enough to live happily. And they do something that's really meaningful to them. Just because the path and the timeline looks different from a STEM grad doesn't mean it's any worse.

Fritzbox

marieholmfan wrote: »

All that education and she couldn't even get a job in Ireland.

Where does it say that?

Tony EH

mr_fegelien wrote: »

When does someone think this will burst? Not as much of an issue in Ireland but it seems that places like the U.S. or Canada have thousands of students going to college, many who either have no idea what to do, no ability to do the course they choose and/or no money but go anyway. They come out 4+ years with a crappy degree and end up working as a Barista.

It said that a Bachelors is the new H.S. diploma. In the 50-80s, you could graduate secondary school, get a factory job and support yourself and a whole family by the age of 20. Nowadays, people are still living with mommy and daddy up until 30. And the competition for jobs is enormous even with a degree.

What do you think the future of education is?

It's largely a money thing. Colleges make a mint out of bought "degrees" and "masters". It isn't going to burst any time soon.

yoke

[Deleted User] wrote: »

[...]
Formal education has a place. It's mostly for those who aren't good at learning by themselves. I suck at self-study. I've learned to do it, but I waste a lot of time too. Having teachers/lecturers with a framework/plan about the focus of the study helps to keep me centered.

I'm the opposite I hate being told what to do, and I learn best when I'm allowed to teach myself using available material / reference books after being given a specific task.

I mostly agree with what you've said in the above post. There is nothing wrong with doing a degree or masters or PhD in itself, if you actually want to do it.
But the point I'm making is, due to the laziness and incompetence of a lot of employers, degrees (and even job experience, I guess) are being prized above actual knowledge, in a lot of jobs.

When "not having a degree" became a barrier to having particular jobs (due to a lot of employers not having the ability to judge someone's knowledge by themselves, which is a by-product of using managers that have done courses (MBAs) rather than having the ability to do the job they're hiring for), thats when a "degree bubble" started, and that is what I believe the OP is railing against.

My own experience has been that university courses are just another way to gain experience and knowledge in a field, while I would never hold it against anyone for having spent the effort to do a course on something no matter how trivial it appears to me (maybe they were just interested in the subject - not everything has to be done with a job in mind), it should never be a barrier to entry to a job in itself (unless the course was a specific training course for that job, in which case it's not a degree course).

Heres Johnny

Can't believe a fegelien thread is going for a week.....

Tony EH

aero2k wrote: »

Some of it is down to lazy recruiting too. 1000 applications for a job - let's throw the ones with no degree in the bin. Still too many? We'll accept masters only.

And usually for a job that doesn't require either.

marieholmfan

Fritzbox wrote: »

Where does it say that?

She had to move to New York and do God Knows What :eek: to get by.

Jimmy Bottlehead

marieholmfan wrote: »

She had to move to New York and do God Knows What :eek: to get by.

This reads like the prologue to a novel.

Please put your arts degree to good use and do continue... :pac:

Brian?

I've a masters in engineering.

I wouldn't have the job I'm doing without it. I couldn't afford the comfortable lifestyle I have without the job. The people who work for me wouldn't have their jobs without their degrees.

Looking down on education is the height if stupidity.

Pigsaw

Brian? wrote: »

I've a masters in engineering.

I wouldn't have the job I'm doing without it. I couldn't afford the comfortable lifestyle I have without the job. The people who work for me wouldn't have their jobs without their degrees.

Looking down on education is the height if stupidity.

Nothing wrong with studying something that has a good chance of getting you a career. It's the suckers who fall for the college meme and study something stupid like race theory or feminist dance that we laugh at.

Kermit.de.frog

Donald Trump wrote: »

There is more to wealth than digits on a bank computer.

Is there?


Is there really?

Brian?

Pigsaw wrote: »

Nothing wrong with studying something that has a good chance of getting you a career. It's the suckers who fall for the college meme and study something stupid like race theory or feminist dance that we laugh at.

Those courses don't exist in Ireland though.

Brian?

Brian? wrote: »

I've a masters in engineering.

I wouldn't have the job I'm doing without it. I couldn't afford the comfortable lifestyle I have without the job. The people who work for me wouldn't have their jobs without their degrees.

Looking down on education is the height if stupidity.

Assuming all education is equal is similarly stupid. Engineering is a technical role where it makes sense for your degree to have great importance.

I have a bachelor in Business Studies with Finance. Beyond it's use simply as a basic requirement for employment, nothing I learned in college was used in the work I did (Finance). Everything I used, I learned from secondary school, on-job training, or self-study. I later got a MBA which was far more useful, but again, it was more to do with the requirement to have one for management positions, than anything I learned in lectures.

Not all industries are equal with regards to the importance of qualifications. Technical positions place greater importance on such education, and rightly so.

yoke

Klaz hit the nail on the head there with his last post, but I'll go even further.

In my opinion, its not just the course, its also the student on the course.

Maybe you were a good student of engineering, and it helped you pick out the good engineers when hiring the people who work for you.
A person with no interest in for example computer science who completed the course would probably end up being a **** network engineer, but could blag their way into a job using their degree, and yet someone with a real interest in computers and the knowledge to go with it would get blocked from all the good jobs just because they don't have a degree.

I've trained for many years in various martial arts, and I've seen the same kind of **** there too as in the jobs market - clueless "new" people want to train under instructors who are a higher rank or belt, doing **** training, whereas people who actually know how to fight will generally try and train under good fighters instead. Most world champions are only considered "junior instructors" in the ranking systems usually yet if you train with or under them you'll learn what your weak points are a lot more quickly, hence effectively the same thing is happening there as in the "degree bubble" - someone who is ranked higher in grades or belts (degrees) will often get more new members into their club every year than someone who is actually a better fighter and instructor.

Just like professional boxing stats, where wins against Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson and Floyd Mayweather count for exactly the same as wins against Logan Paul, KSI, and Charlie Zelenoff. You'd learn more during a loss vs Ali than a win vs Zelenoff.

Eric Cartman

Brian? wrote: »

Those courses don't exist in Ireland though.

trinity have a whole department for it : https://www.tcd.ie/cgws/courses/
cud have a department for it : https://www.ucd.ie/socialpolicyworkjustice/research/institutesandcentres/equalitystudiescentre/
UL have a masters course on it : https://www.ul.ie/gps/course/gender-culture-society-ma
maynooth have a cert in it : https://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/study-maynooth/undergraduate-studies/courses/certificate-equality-studies

Brian?

Eric Cartman wrote: »

trinity have a whole department for it : https://www.tcd.ie/cgws/courses/
cud have a department for it : https://www.ucd.ie/socialpolicyworkjustice/research/institutesandcentres/equalitystudiescentre/
UL have a masters course on it : https://www.ul.ie/gps/course/gender-culture-society-ma
maynooth have a cert in it : https://www.maynoothuniversity.ie/study-maynooth/undergraduate-studies/courses/certificate-equality-studies

Those are post grads, in order to do them you'll have a useful undergrad done first.

Donald Trump

Eric Cartman wrote: »

trinity have a whole department for it : https://www.tcd.ie/cgws/courses/

That they do. But to put that into context it is a department of three. One of whom is retired (Emeritus). Other two are assistant professors which is basically the bottom rung of tenured academic teaching staff. They have a few "visiting fellows" but those can be people who are working in a different institution but come in to teach a course or two.

wilkie2006

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Anyone doing a gender studies/equality etc.. degree is only hurting their job opportunities, getting a non stem degree wont help you for anything anymore.

That said myself and the owner of a dublin coffee shop chain did have a laugh one day in one of the stores, talking with the staff and one of them had a masters in journalism, another a psychology degree, myself and himself without degrees, we laughed and drank coffee and left in our range rover and Porsche respectively.

Sounds like you have a chip on your shoulder