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Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

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    #7202
    CorkRed93
    Registered Users Posts: 3,530 ✭✭✭CorkRed93


    nerrad01 wrote: »
    I just lost out on my dream place this morning to a cash buyer, the seller wouldnt even take a higher bid, just went straight with the cash buyer at asking price, very difficult market with the lack of properties in desirable areas.

    I had previously thought we would see a drop but cant see it happening at all now. A quick look on auctioneera and its clear that every thing is going above asking.

    Yep noticing the same. https://www.auctioneera.ie/property/miranda-24-rockboro-avenue-old-blackrock-road-ballinlough-cork-t12-npy1

    Hard to see any crash when 2nd hand homes are going for this kind of money.
    Nice area and good spec but for that money you'd buy a new build in same area cheaper + have HTB on top of it? paying 50k extra for a bit of garden space?


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    #7203
    Balluba
    Registered Users Posts: 128 ✭✭Balluba


    CorkRed93 wrote: »
    Yep noticing the same. https://www.auctioneera.ie/property/miranda-24-rockboro-avenue-old-blackrock-road-ballinlough-cork-t12-npy1

    Hard to see any crash when 2nd hand homes are going for this kind of money.
    Nice area and good spec but for that money you'd buy a new build in same area cheaper + have HTB on top of it? paying 50k extra for a bit of garden space?

    This house was probably undervalued to attract a bidding war.It is within a 15 minute walk of Cork City centre, it has been recently renovated, it has a good size back garden, and it is bright and spacious.
    Also after a survey is carried out the cash purchasers are in a good position to negotiate downwards if any defects are found.


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    #7204
    combat14
    Registered Users Posts: 2,118 ✭✭✭combat14


    the tiniest of ripples... just on the cusp of winter a possible second covid shutdown, hard Brexit, international changes to digital corporation taxes in the offing, massive increased govt borrowing both here and internationally (which has to be paid back) and a slew of green taxes to come...


    Property prices fall for second month

    https://m.independent.ie/business/personal-finance/property-mortgages/property-prices-fall-for-second-month-39623446.html


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    #7205
    Dwarf.Shortage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Dwarf.Shortage


    fliball123 wrote: »
    Have a look in areas like

    Tallaght, Finglas, Donaghmede, Kilbarrack, Ballymun, Swords, Blanchardstown, Clondalkin, Balbriggan, Rush, Lusk, Donabate, Portrane and other areas like this.. 300k goes a long way if you want to be further in Dublin or want a seaview then you will have to up your price

    Long story short, no.


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    #7206
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    nerrad01 wrote: »
    I just lost out on my dream place this morning to a cash buyer, the seller wouldnt even take a higher bid, just went straight with the cash buyer at asking price, very difficult market with the lack of properties in desirable areas.

    I had previously thought we would see a drop but cant see it happening at all now. A quick look on auctioneera and its clear that every thing is going above asking.

    Auctionneera either get it well below or well above the market value
    I have seen houses on there for 6 months and not a bid
    I have seen houses for 395k on there going for 332k
    They get as much wrong as they do right

    https://www.auctioneera.ie/property/88-grange-abbey-crescent-donaghmede-dublin-d13-k6f5

    https://www.auctioneera.ie/property/73-belmayne-avenue-parkside-balgriffin-dublin-d13-h2wn

    Both of those properties are months on the market and no bid
    Any other EA would have got the vendor to drop the asking price


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    #7207
    Shoden
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Shoden


    To those who were arguing about whether a downward trend was on the way a few pages ago. I spent months thinking that prices were about to drop. Then I had a realisation, those who were employed in sectors that were hit the worst: hospitality, tourism, entertainment etc aren't your typical mortgage candidates, and those in steady jobs had nothing to do but save for months!


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    #7208
    Billythekid19
    Registered Users Posts: 166 ✭✭Billythekid19


    Shoden wrote: »
    To those who were arguing about whether a downward trend was on the way a few pages ago. I spent months thinking that prices were about to drop. Then I had a realisation, those who were employed in sectors that were hit the worst: hospitality, tourism, entertainment etc aren't your typical mortgage candidates, and those in steady jobs had nothing to do but save for months!

    But your typical person working in a hotel, hospitality ect all need a place to live, They cant all be living in social housing.


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    #7209
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Balluba wrote: »
    I have read that Twink is in danger again of losing her house in South Co. Dublin due to losing work because of Covid

    Twink has been in danger of losing her house since her husband unzipped his mickey
    She should just sell it and move on
    Thousands of ordinary Joe soaps have had to do it


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    #7210
    Shoden
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Shoden


    Billythekid19 wrote: »
    But your typical person working in a hotel, hospitality ect all need a place to live, They cant all be living in social housing.

    A lot of them rent. Worked in that industry for years myself.


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    #7211
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    Shoden wrote: »
    To those who were arguing about whether a downward trend was on the way a few pages ago. I spent months thinking that prices were about to drop. Then I had a realisation, those who were employed in sectors that were hit the worst: hospitality, tourism, entertainment etc aren't your typical mortgage candidates, and those in steady jobs had nothing to do but save for months!

    We have had this argument over and over again and its been proved to be false
    PEOPLE on low wages do affect the housing market ,both the rental sector and the sales market


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    #7212
    nerrad01
    Registered Users Posts: 237 ✭✭nerrad01


    its obviously a supply issue, the overwhelming majority of what has been built was snapped up over the last number of years by institutional landlords and is funneled into the rental market. Also the market was essentially frozen due to covid so a lot of pent up demand from people wanting to buy the few properties out there. Government policy has not and will not change this situation so its here to stay.

    There is still plenty of people with secure jobs to purchase and not enough properties in desirable areas, i cant see this changing anytime soon.


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    #7213
    thefridge2006
    Registered Users Posts: 220 ✭✭thefridge2006


    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/dublin-house-prices-now-falling-by-1-6-as-coronavirus-infects-market-1.4380685

    Dublin house prices now falling by 1.6% as coronavirus infects market

    Nothing to see here folks......


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    #7214
    PropQueries
    Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭PropQueries


    brisan wrote: »
    We have had this argument over and over again and its been proved to be false
    PEOPLE on low wages do affect the housing market ,both the rental sector and the sales market

    That's true. A couple, both on the minimum wage in Ireland could very easily afford the monthly repayments on a 25 year mortgage for many standard three-bed semis outside the major cities. Assuming they could get mortgage approval.


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    #7215
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    PropQueries wrote: »
    That's true. A couple, both on the minimum wage in Ireland could very easily afford the monthly repayments on a 25 year mortgage for many standard three-bed semis outside the major cities. Assuming they could get mortgage approval.

    A person on 20k who loses their job knocks 70k off any potential mortgage a couple can apply for
    Lower available mortgages means lower prices


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    #7216
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    Shoden wrote: »
    To those who were arguing about whether a downward trend was on the way a few pages ago. I spent months thinking that prices were about to drop. Then I had a realisation, those who were employed in sectors that were hit the worst: hospitality, tourism, entertainment etc aren't your typical mortgage candidates, and those in steady jobs had nothing to do but save for months!


    You only have to look at the tax take coming in it hasnt dropped at all so it would kind of point to the fact that those going onto Covid payments were not paying much tax as they were not getting paid enough


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    #7217
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    What percentage of property price is tax? 50%?

    Why don't the government stop taxing people's homes?


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    #7218
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    thefridge2006 wrote: »
    Dublin house prices now falling by 1.6% as coronavirus infects market

    Nothing to see here folks......

    That's what, 6k for your average FTBer in Dublin.

    Considering what's going on around us, not a bad outcome.


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    #7219
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    thefridge2006 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/dublin-house-prices-now-falling-by-1-6-as-coronavirus-infects-market-1.4380685

    Dublin house prices now falling by 1.6% as coronavirus infects market

    Nothing to see here folks......

    Actually, property prices rose slightly between July and August. It is the YoY figure that fell, but prices actually creeped upwards slightly in both Dublin and in the country as a whole for August compared to the month prior.

    Always easy to package the data in a way that suits an agenda.


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    #7220
    Shoden
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Shoden


    brisan wrote: »
    We have had this argument over and over again and its been proved to be false
    PEOPLE on low wages do affect the housing market ,both the rental sector and the sales market

    My main point was that people whose income was not effected have been able to save hardcore for months as there's nothing else to do.


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    #7221
    Dwarf.Shortage
    Registered Users Posts: 1,256 ✭✭✭Dwarf.Shortage


    Bubbaclaus wrote: »
    Actually, property prices rose slightly between July and August. It is the YoY figure that fell, but prices actually creeped upwards slightly in both Dublin and in the country as a whole for August compared to the month prior.

    Always easy to package the data in a way that suits an agenda.

    The Irish Times did the packaging tbf, around these parts aren't they filed under "property cheerleaders" with the opposite agenda to the one you suggest.


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    #7222
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    Shoden wrote: »
    My main point was that people whose income was not effected have been able to save hardcore for months as there's nothing else to do.

    Have they not just been forced to save? Something they could have chosen to do anyway?


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    #7223
    KennisWhale
    Closed Accounts Posts: 186 ✭✭KennisWhale


    thefridge2006 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/dublin-house-prices-now-falling-by-1-6-as-coronavirus-infects-market-1.4380685

    Dublin house prices now falling by 1.6% as coronavirus infects market

    Nothing to see here folks......

    What is more concerning is the 40% fall off in transactions in August ("concerning" in terms of potential for what is to come), which followed (by comparison to the same months in 2019) 40.7% lower in July, 53.6% lower in June, 46% lower in May and 29% lower in April.

    The government measures have served a purpose of inflating the market in recent years rather than ensuring it grew sustainably. As such, it is perhaps being propped up currently by the government rather than being allowed to function a bit more freely (think of the government's HtB and rental assistance schemes, eviction protection laws for poor tenants and mortgage holders, as examples).


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    #7224
    cnocbui
    Registered Users Posts: 19,906 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    stefanovich wrote: »
    What percentage of property price is tax? 50%?

    Why don't the government stop taxing people's homes?

    Sinn Fein wants to abolisgh property tax. Afaik, they are the only Irish political party that have a policy of actualy reducing a tax. All the others are just variations on a theme of 'this is how we will spend your money and ideally we want more of it'.


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    #7225
    Shoden
    Registered Users Posts: 90 ✭✭Shoden


    stefanovich wrote: »
    Have they not just been forced to save? Something they could have chosen to do anyway?

    Splitting hairs, either way a lot of people have a lot more cash on hand.


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    #7226
    stefanovich
    Registered Users Posts: 5,490 ✭✭✭stefanovich


    cnocbui wrote: »
    Sinn Fein wants to abolisgh property tax. Afaik, they are the only Irish political party that have a policy of actualy reducing a tax. All the others are just variations on a theme of 'this is how we will spend your money and ideally we want more of it'.

    I'm not just talking about property tax.

    I am talking tax on materials, tax on labour, stamp duty etc etc. Half the price of a home goes to the government.


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    #7227
    PropQueries
    Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭PropQueries


    nerrad01 wrote: »
    its obviously a supply issue, the overwhelming majority of what has been built was snapped up over the last number of years by institutional landlords and is funneled into the rental market. Also the market was essentially frozen due to covid so a lot of pent up demand from people wanting to buy the few properties out there. Government policy has not and will not change this situation so its here to stay.

    There is still plenty of people with secure jobs to purchase and not enough properties in desirable areas, i cant see this changing anytime soon.

    That may be true. It's not really a 'housing supply' problem. More of a 'housing location' problem. That could be solved with the whole WFH phenomenon if the Government actually had a bit of joined up thinking. A similar, but more modern take on the scheme like the one the US had in the film Far and Away would work perfect.

    In relation to the supply of properties in desirable areas, they may be coming into the market in bulk over the next ten years due to life expectancy etc. It's how many who will be able to afford them at todays prices when all these properties do begin to enter the market that will be the issue at that time.


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    #7228
    Bubbaclaus
    Registered Users Posts: 4,461 ✭✭✭Bubbaclaus


    Dwarf.Shortage wrote: »
    The Irish Times did the packaging tbf, around these parts aren't they filed under "property cheerleaders" with the opposite agenda to the one you suggest.

    They packaged it the way they always do, comparing with same period last year, which is a fair and reasonable way to set it out.

    However, anyone using it to claim the sky is falling would not be fair and reasonable as that viewpoint doesnt match the data. Prices went up between July and August.


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    #7229
    brisan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,242 ✭✭✭brisan


    fliball123 wrote: »
    You only have to look at the tax take coming in it hasnt dropped at all so it would kind of point to the fact that those going onto Covid payments were not paying much tax as they were not getting paid enough

    There are plenty of properties that 2 people on minimum wage could afford to buy

    https://www.myhome.ie/residential/ireland/property-for-sale?types=36|97|40|39|38|37|42|45|46|47|48|49|51|53|54&maxprice=150000


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    #7230
    fliball123
    Registered Users Posts: 7,445 ✭✭✭fliball123


    brisan wrote: »
    fliball123 wrote: »
    You only have to look at the tax take coming in it hasnt dropped at all so it would kind of point to the fact that those going onto Covid payments were not paying much tax as they were not getting paid enough

    There are plenty of properties that 2 people on minimum wage could afford to buy

    https://www.myhome.ie/residential/ireland/property-for-sale?types=36|97|40|39|38|37|42|45|46|47|48|49|51|53|54&maxprice=150000

    True but if they have lost their job or one of them I reckon no bank would give them a mortgage while on Covid payments so they are effectively locked out of the market unless they are cash buyers


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    #7231
    landofthetree
    Registered Users Posts: 2,303 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    Low paid workers in Ireland pay little tax.

    Ireland is one of the best places in the developed world for a low income worker to pay taxes, new figures show. Someone earning €18,000 a year pays an effective tax rate of less than 3 per cent in Ireland, according to the Irish Tax Institute. This compares with a rate of 26 per cent in Germany.


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