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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #1172
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Gradius wrote: »
    That was my original question; what's the bloody plan here?

    Lockdowns don't provide an exit.
    Letting people do what they want won't provide an exit.

    So, where's plan 3?

    We're into this thing more than half a year now, and not a peep of a plan or strategy. Ludicrous.

    Ah come on, for days they argued that the 1 to 5 plan we would be using for the next 6 months was not complicated and each county would be treated as per rates in the county.
    When asked why Dublin was 3.5 they said this won't happen again but now everyone's 3.5 basically
    I even got a leaflet in my door explaining it all


  • #1173
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    hmmm wrote: »
    Herd immunity will only come with a vaccine. There is no "natural herd immunity" route out of Covid without mass suffering and death, and if those infections are dragged out over a long time we are likely to see reinfections.

    So stop trying to spread fake news and disinformation about vaccines, unless you want this pandemic to last longer than it has to.

    No vaccine already developed or in testing phase will guarantee you not to get covid. Nothing fake about it. What is fake is telling people pandemic will stop after we all get vaccine.


  • #1174
    Gradius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    King Canute indeed.

    I actually predict that what will eventually happen is that people who don't want new normal will get together and find somewhere where they can live normally as 'relaxed' persons.

    Thats an impossibility.

    However, extending on that same rough idea IS a very plausible solution. Isolate the country.

    Severe, zero tolerance lockdown for a short period of time to eradicate the disease from the country. Then we could all go back to normal as a country.

    Nobody in, nobody out.

    That's the best plan of action, hands down. Nothing else is remotely close in terms of potential efficacy.


  • #1175
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,713 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    I think people registering as 'relaxed' is a plan, but for those who don't I guess the plan is a vaccine and then make up some nonsense about masks and all the other rubbish being still necessary.

    My plan of closing the border is far more workable that that relaxed nonsense.

    If you can’t see how utterly stupid it is then I’m not really sure you understand what’s being suggested.


  • #1176
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Gradius wrote: »
    Thats an impossibility.

    However, extending on that same rough idea IS a very plausible solution. Isolate the country.

    Severe, zero tolerance lockdown for a short period of time to eradicate the disease from the country. Then we could all go back to normal as a country.

    Nobody in, nobody out.

    That's the best plan of action, hands down. Nothing else is remotely close in terms of potential efficacy.

    We have a problem, we have an open border


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  • #1177
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »
    My plan of closing the border is far more workable that that relaxed nonsense.

    If you can’t see how utterly stupid it is then I’m not really sure you understand what’s being suggested.

    You think closing the border is workable, if there's any checks on the border in this Island the scum Provos and Loyalists will be back in action from day 1


  • #1178
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,713 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    We have a problem, we have an open border

    As you keep reminding us, excuses excuses is all I’m seeing. I have given you solutions but you don’t want to hear them.


  • #1179
    Gradius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    We have a problem, we have an open border

    Shut that door.

    It's that plan, or this insanity.

    Simple choice.


  • #1180
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Gradius wrote: »
    Thats an impossibility.

    However, extending on that same rough idea IS a very plausible solution. Isolate the country.

    Severe, zero tolerance lockdown for a short period of time to eradicate the disease from the country. Then we could all go back to normal as a country.

    Nobody in, nobody out.

    That's the best plan of action, hands down. Nothing else is remotely close in terms of potential efficacy.

    Why is it an impossibility? Really it'd just be living off the grid. Only people would be living off the grid as 'relaxed' persons. I don't see what the problem is.


  • #1181
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Gradius wrote: »
    Shut that door.

    It's that plan, or this insanity.

    Simple choice.

    How can you stop crossing at every border point in Ireland? Who's going to police this?
    What about the Provo and Loyalist scum who will target these people doing the checks?


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  • #1182
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »
    My plan of closing the border is far more workable that that relaxed nonsense.

    If you can’t see how utterly stupid it is then I’m not really sure you understand what’s being suggested.

    I don't see how living off the grid as 'relaxed' persons is stupid. Destroying lives, livelihoods, mental health, humanity, natural instincts and what makes life worth living over what is for most people a mild virus is insanity, in my opinion. But the 'relaxed' idea solves that problem. People who want new normal get to have it, while people who don't get to live as 'relaxed' persons.


  • #1183
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,713 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    How can you stop crossing at every border point in Ireland? Who's going to police this?
    What about the Provo and Loyalist scum who will target these people doing the checks?

    Shoot the scum where they stand who cares, that juts excuses.

    Also it’s a major assumption that they would target anyone in this very different situation where the border is being closed temporarily for health reasons.


  • #1184
    Gradius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    Why is it an impossibility? Really it'd just be living off the grid. Only people would be living off the grid as 'relaxed' persons. I don't see what the problem is.

    Where? How?

    How normal of a life would you have living in a tiny population in a woodland, or on Skellig Michael?

    The isolation is correct in principle, but it needs to be on a FAR bigger scale, like country sized.

    And we already live on an island. We just need to apply the principle to the entire country.


  • #1185
    Gradius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    dundalkfc10 wrote: »
    How can you stop crossing at every border point in Ireland? Who's going to police this?
    What about the Provo and Loyalist scum who will target these people doing the checks?

    It's a difficult plan to implement. But again, it's a difficult plan, or no plan.

    Simple choice.


  • #1186
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »
    Shoot the scum where they stand who cares, that juts excuses.

    Also it’s a major assumption that they would target anyone in this very different situation where the border is being closed temporarily for health reasons.

    Fair enough but who is going to manage these border posts? I know of 2 on top my head private roads with houses where one end of the road is in Republic and other in North, in sure there's loads more


  • #1187
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Gradius wrote: »
    Where? How?

    How normal of a life would you have living in a tiny population in a woodland, or on Skellig Michael?

    The isolation is correct in principle, but it needs to be on a FAR bigger scale, like country sized.

    And we already live on an island. We just need to apply the principle to the entire country.

    The 'relaxed' thing would be temporary. For a certain period of time people would live as 'relaxed' persons. I don't know where they'd live, but the point is that they'd be free from new normal and the rest of the population would no longer have to resent them for being opposed to new normal. Both parties would be happy.

    But we can't apply it to the entire country because most people wouldn't want to register as 'relaxed'. They prefer the new normal. So you'd have to keep the 'relaxed' and 'non-relaxed' people apart.


  • #1188
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    But isn't the 'relaxed' idea a good one in that it means the risk of the hospitals being overwhelmed is severely reduced? The 'relaxed' people would live normal lives and the 'non-relaxed' people could live new normal lives. The 'relaxed' people would agree not to seek medical care, so I think it could work.

    How would you propose we get to this stage of Nirvana.
    We set up two states one named relaxed and the other non-relaxed where people move to whichever state they determine suits their level of consciousness at that time, and both states close their borders to each other and anybody else ?

    Tbh it sounds more 60`s flower power than a practical solution.


  • #1189
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    charlie14 wrote: »
    How would you propose we get to this stage of Nirvana.
    We set up two states one named relaxed and the other non-relaxed where people move to whichever state they determine suits their level of consciousness at that time, and both states close their borders to each other and anybody else ?

    Tbh it sounds more 60`s flower power than a practical solution.

    It'd be difficult. It'd be far easier if the 'non-relaxed' people would accept living among the 'relaxed' people. Those registered as 'relaxed' could wear a badge to say they're relaxed. They'd agree not to seek medical care if they got the virus and to accept risk as part and parcel of everyday life.

    But if that wouldn't work then you could set up a state for the 'relaxed' people. The alternative is making possibly more than a million people endure tyranny and misery.


  • #1190
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/it-was-nothing-fancy-gardai-break-up-post-match-dinner-of-around-30-people-from-roscommon-gaa-39613486.html

    The GAA needs to be told stop Inter County now, they think they can do what they like


  • #1191
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    No vaccine already developed or in testing phase will guarantee you not to get covid. Nothing fake about it. What is fake is telling people pandemic will stop after we all get vaccine.

    What will guarantee you will not get Covid-19 so ?

    If you think it a major drawback that a vaccine will not 100% guarantee nobody gets infected, then I presume you have an alternative that is 100% guaranteed to work


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  • #1192
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    beauf wrote: »
    If some people don't believe its a threat. How about saving a waiver that they are ignoring the restrictions, but on the agreement that if they get COVID, they agree not to be treated for it. So they don't have to wear a mask etc. but people are entitled to refuse them entry or deal with them.

    In that way people can get on with doing their own thing.

    Perfect plan. And to help our strained health service let us introduce similar waivers to all people who continue to smoke despite ample evidence they are killing themselves and their treatment is costing much more than typical covid treatment. I would add all obese people and people who drink more than 1 unit of alcohol a day.


  • #1193
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    patnor1011 wrote: »
    Perfect plan. And to help our strained health service let us introduce similar waivers to all people who continue to smoke despite ample evidence they are killing themselves and their treatment is costing much more than typical covid treatment. I would add all obese people and people who drink more than 1 unit of alcohol a day.

    The poster described the 'relaxed' idea proposed by Peter Hitchens. The only thing is 'relaxed' people wouldn't be refused entry.


  • #1194
    Gradius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    charlie14 wrote: »
    What will guarantee you will not get Covid-19 so ?

    If you think it a major drawback that a vaccine will not 100% guarantee nobody gets infected, then I presume you have an alternative that is 100% guaranteed to work

    Quarantine the country.

    A vaccine is very unlikely to arrive anytime soon. If it arrives at all, the uptake is going to render it near ineffective.

    We need to act now in order to salvage what's left, because make no mistake, this is going to be disaster with a capital D by next Summer. And the only plan of action that has a hope of working, of providing an exit, is quarantining the country.


  • #1195
    dundalkfc10
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,719 ✭✭✭dundalkfc10


    https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/hundreds-thousands-travelled-ireland-covid-22833517#ICID=Android_IrishMirrorNewsApp_AppShare

    Well at least they are on top of the airports after 6 months hard work by the Govt


  • #1196
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,025 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Saw this very strange video today of a prom, supposedly in Czech Rep, of teens dancing back to back. Very sad ,if true.. :( looks so weird

    prom Covid style.

    https://www.tmz.com/2020/10/11/international-high-school-ball-teens-dance-back-to-back-masks/


  • #1197
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Jake1 wrote: »
    Saw this very strange video today of a prom, supposedly in Czech Rep, of teens dancing back to back. Very sad ,if true.. :( looks so weird

    prom Covid style.

    https://www.tmz.com/2020/10/11/international-high-school-ball-teens-dance-back-to-back-masks/

    Another reason to add to the many for why people should seriously consider emigration. All that kind of stuff happens only in the West.


  • #1198
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    It'd be difficult. It'd be far easier if the 'non-relaxed' people would accept living among the 'relaxed' people. Those registered as 'relaxed' could wear a badge to say they're relaxed. They'd agree not to seek medical care if they got the virus and to accept risk as part and parcel of everyday life.

    But if that wouldn't work then you could set up a state for the 'relaxed' people. The alternative is making possibly more than a million people endure tyranny and misery.

    To be absolutely honest it sounds like a stoned out of his skull 60`s flower power hippies alternative to the Nazi final solution.


  • #1199
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    charlie14 wrote: »
    To be absolutely honest it sounds like a stoned out of his skull 60`s flower power hippies alternative to the Nazi final solution.

    I know it sounds a bit odd, but the alternative of forcing 'relaxed' people to endure the present tyranny and misery is extremely cruel.

    Basically it'd be allowing people who want to live normally and take risks do that. I don't see what the problem is. The new normal will still be there for people who don't want to register as 'relaxed'.


  • #1200
    patnor1011
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    hmmm wrote: »
    OK we've over a million vulnerable people, and they will have families, jobs etc. Some will be in hospitals or nursing homes where other staff come in to look after them.

    Your suggestion is what exactly for these vulnerable people, their families and people who work alongside them? There's a lot of vague "they need to more" references but very little said as to what exactly you want them to do. Can they go to work? What do nursing home staff do - will they have to isolate themselves? What do their families do - can their kids go to school or meet other kids? Can their spouse go to work? How will they go shopping? Can they go on holidays? Will they have to cut off all social contact? How long will they have to do this and what is your exit strategy?

    You're the person above who said there have been no real re-infections when the ECDC themselves show there has been - has this changed your view any bit?

    Yes we can.
    I am pretty much definition of vulnerable and know quite a few of them in the same position. We went to work daily even during "lockdown". Our families and children socialize and go to school. Some of us work in places where clusters of covid were detected. We do go shopping and we go for holidays. We do this whole life and covid is just one of many things we have to deal with.

    Vulnerable or at risk people are being presented as some sacred cow these days and surprisingly everyone is hell bent on "protecting" them.
    You are talking about millions of people but let us set something clear. Millions of people are at risk of having milder covid - developing some of the symptoms. Only fraction of them may die - if their health is in a bad state already from their other ailments. There are no millions of these people. Merely thousands or tens of thousands at most. They are already shielding themselves properly.
    There is absolutely no need for this pretending of some immaginary care for vulnerable while choking most of the life out of the whole population.


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  • #1201
    charlie14
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,594 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Gradius wrote: »
    Quarantine the country.

    A vaccine is very unlikely to arrive anytime soon. If it arrives at all, the uptake is going to render it near ineffective.

    We need to act now in order to salvage what's left, because make no mistake, this is going to be disaster with a capital D by next Summer. And the only plan of action that has a hope of working, of providing an exit, is quarantining the country.

    At least three vaccines are in the final stages of development with quite a few others nearing that stage. For the three in the final stage after CDC examination for efficacy and safety, highly possible they will be licence for distribution early next year. But very few here even wish to hear about vaccine development let alone vaccines becoming available.
    I would not be as sure as you the uptake would be as low as you appear to believe. In fact I would bet good money that a fair proportion of the shape throwing anonymous keyboard warriors on this thread would be in the queue.

    Anyway..... what would quarantining the country achieve ?
    The virus is already here.


This discussion has been closed.
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