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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #1142
    3xh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    hmmm wrote: »
    The WHO said lockdowns should not be the primary means of combating Covid.

    They did not mean that countries should give up. They meant a combination of track and trace, social distancing and personal hygiene measures like handwashing and facemasks. As long as we have people ignoring the rules, we will have to resort to lockdowns.

    You’re right with the first bit. It’s not to be used as the primary means. I’m not aware of the latter regarding washing hands/masks/etc. being said DURING the appeal to stop using lockdowns in the first instance.

    What was said was;

    ‘The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you more time to reorganise, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers........

    But by and large, we’d rather not do it......

    We really do appeal to all world leaders; stop using lockdowns as your primary control method. Develop better systems for doing it.....

    But remember, lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never ever belittle and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer’

    I’ll let the posters here decide if NPHET, the HSE and the government have met the recommendations above from the WHO to fall on the lockdown for support.

    I’m off the view they don’t meet the criteria to use it. This isn’t March where we’d few PPE reserves, untrained (in Covid) medical staff, contact tracing teams, etc.


  • #1143
    normanoffside
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,229 ✭✭✭✭normanoffside


    John Giles tells us he is living in fear of Covid and is checking his temperature 5 times a day.

    Nice heart-warming story Claire- just what we need.


  • #1144
    Rrrrrr2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Rrrrrr2


    normanoffside wrote: »
    John Giles tells us he is living in fear of Covid and is checking his temperature 5 times a day.

    Nice heart-warming story Claire- just what we need.


    That's really not normal behaviour- that's neurotic and anxious- did none of the clowns like Byrne not think to point that out and discuss it?- course she's such an idiot she probably thinks it's great- "the new normal n all dat"


  • #1145
    bush
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭bush


    The only plan or idea ive heard NPHET come up with is LOCKDOWN.


  • #1146
    Multipass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    hmmm wrote: »
    We don't actually know this, but thanks for the inside information from the trials.

    We know that the monkeys tested in the initial phases of the Astra Zeneca/Oxford trial did have detectable virus in their nose after being blasted with large amounts of virus, but as some here will be eager to tell you just because the virus can be detected with sensitive tests does not mean they are infectious.

    So we'll wait and see the results of phase 3. If the vaccines "merely" reduce Covid to the status of a headcold, that'll be enough for now for most and will go a long way to getting us out of this hole.

    It’s not inside information, no vaccine prevents infection.

    You can still pass on the flu if you’re vaccinated, the liklihood of doing so is reduced, but that’s due to lessening of symptoms. The indications that Covid spreads asymtomatically is very bad news for still being infectious whilst vaccinated. Yes it will hopefully reduce the numbers seriously ill, but there will still be spread and people are still going to die. If every life is still going to matter we will be wearing masks and closing down indefinitely. There’s no need to stigmatise anyone in the way you were suggesting.


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  • #1147
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    Used to love watching Claire Byrne, fantastic presenter. However, her whole stance on Covid19 is so bias, pandering to the fear mongerers, no other opinion is acceptable to Claire. Do not dare question NPHET.

    Matt Cooper is as bad.

    Our journalists are as bad, your man Shane Beatty on Twitter is an absolute embarrassment to journalism yet he has a big following.


  • #1148
    Icsics
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,063 ✭✭✭Icsics


    Mother of God Claire’s turning onto Joe Duffy...had to turn off that priest, beyond depressing!


  • #1149
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,260 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Rrrrrr2 wrote: »
    That's really not normal behaviour- that's neurotic and anxious- did none of the clowns like Byrne not think to point that out and discuss it?- course she's such an idiot she probably thinks it's great- "the new normal n all dat"

    It's all part of the narrative to keep people afraid.

    See, the only strategy this Government/NPHET know is fear to drive compliance (whether its of catching CV-19 or being fined for not wearing masks) , and that's because if they presented the facts of where we are now - lots of cases, very few hospitalisations proportionally and even less deaths - people would naturally enough start to question their approach and the damage it's doing to jobs, the economy in general, and the ability to socialise and live again.

    Of course, as the weeks drag on, more and more people are starting to realise/question this for themselves.


  • #1150
    uli84
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,749 ✭✭✭uli84


    bush wrote: »
    The only plan or idea ive heard NPHET come up with is LOCKDOWN.

    They clearly can’t think outside the box, not sure who gave them the job


  • #1151
    Happydays2020
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    uli84 wrote: »
    They clearly can’t think outside the box, not sure who gave them the job

    It gets them off the hook for not doing what they should be doing.


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  • #1152
    Multipass
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    normanoffside wrote: »
    John Giles tells us he is living in fear of Covid and is checking his temperature 5 times a day.

    Nice heart-warming story Claire- just what we need.

    This is what happens when the mental health services stop providing appointments.


  • #1153
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    It's all part of the narrative to keep people afraid.

    See, the only strategy this Government/NPHET know is fear to drive compliance (whether its of catching CV-19 or being fined for not wearing masks) , and that's because if they presented the facts of where we are now - lots of cases, very few hospitalisations proportionally and even less deaths - people would naturally enough start to question their approach and the damage it's doing to jobs, the economy in general, and the ability to socialise and live again.

    Of course, as the weeks drag on, more and more people are starting to realise/question this for themselves.

    I think it's understandable and reasonable for people to question this rubbish.


  • #1154
    _Kaiser_
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,260 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    I think it's understandable and reasonable for people to question this rubbish.

    Yes but it's happening still too slowly and being hampered by the current narrative and tactics like discrediting or hounding (out of their jobs) those similarly qualified experts who question the approach or offer an alternative.


  • #1155
    boggerman1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,069 ✭✭✭boggerman1


    Clare Byrne’s show has jumped the shark at this stage.totally insanity and fear mongering to the heights.


  • #1156
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Yes but it's happening still too slowly and being hampered by the current narrative and tactics like discrediting or hounding (out of their jobs) those similarly qualified experts who question the approach or offer an alternative.

    It's a nightmare. It's diabolical what they're doing to people and to society.


  • #1157
    Gradius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    _Kaiser_ wrote: »
    Yes but it's happening still too slowly and being hampered by the current narrative and tactics like discrediting or hounding (out of their jobs) those similarly qualified experts who question the approach or offer an alternative.

    What are the alternatives on the table?


  • #1158
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Gradius wrote: »
    What are the alternatives on the table?

    To accept that life is full of risk and risks and to let people live. It's either that or tyranny.

    Another alternative is the 'relaxed' idea Peter Hitchens wrote about whereby people would register as 'relaxed' and agree not to seek medical care if they got the virus.


  • #1159
    bush
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,878 ✭✭✭bush


    boggerman1 wrote: »
    Clare Byrne’s show has jumped the shark at this stage.totally insanity and fear mongering to the heights.

    It's actually laughable at this stage


  • #1160
    Lundstram
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,129 ✭✭✭Lundstram


    Video and subsequent thread are very interesting.

    https://twitter.com/jonkirbysthlm/status/1315648772828016643


  • #1161
    Gradius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    To accept that life is full of risk and risks and to let people live. It's either that ort tyranny.

    Another alternative is the 'relaxed' idea Peter Hitchens wrote about whereby people would register as 'relaxed' and agree not to seek medical care if they got the virus.

    I'm all for escaping this loop of insanity, but those ideas are flat out stupid. It'll wreck the country anyway.

    All I keep hearing are

    1) lock down, open up, lock down, open up

    2) let people do what they want.

    Both are as thick as custard.

    Where are the genuine alternative ideas, the proactive plans to solve this situation?


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  • #1162
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,713 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    To accept that life is full of risk and risks and to let people live. It's either that ort tyranny.

    Another alternative is the 'relaxed' idea Peter Hitchens wrote about whereby people would register as 'relaxed' and agree not to seek medical care if they got the virus.

    Both absolutely crazy suggestions which are naturally not being considered. The second “idea”’is beyond idiotic and so massively unworkable that even suggesting it out loud is a cause for concern for the person who came up with the idea.


  • #1163
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Gradius wrote: »
    I'm all for escaping this loop of insanity, but those ideas are flat out stupid. It'll wreck the country anyway.

    All I keep hearing are

    1) lock down, open up, lock down, open up

    2) let people do what they want.

    Both are as thick as custard.

    Where are the genuine alternative ideas, the proactive plans to solve this situation?

    But isn't the 'relaxed' idea a good one in that it means the risk of the hospitals being overwhelmed is severely reduced? The 'relaxed' people would live normal lives and the 'non-relaxed' people could live new normal lives. The 'relaxed' people would agree not to seek medical care, so I think it could work.


  • #1164
    Rrrrrr2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Rrrrrr2


    Lundstram wrote: »
    Used to love watching Claire Byrne, fantastic presenter. However, her whole stance on Covid19 is so bias, pandering to the fear mongerers, no other opinion is acceptable to Claire. Do not dare question NPHET.

    Matt Cooper is as bad.

    Our journalists are as bad, your man Shane Beatty on Twitter is an absolute embarrassment to journalism yet he has a big following.

    Respectively disagree- she’s a woeful presenter. As for the other two drama queens, won’t even go there


  • #1165
    Gradius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    Dionaibh wrote: »
    But isn't the 'relaxed' idea a good one in that it means the risk of the hospitals being overwhelmed is severely reduced? The 'relaxed' people would live normal lives and the 'non-relaxed' people could live new normal lives. The 'relaxed' people would agree not to seek medical care, so I think it could work.

    You can't half-quarantine a disease.

    When a "relaxed" person infects a non-relaxed person...


  • #1166
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »
    Both absolutely crazy suggestions which are naturally not being considered. The second “idea”’is beyond idiotic and so massively unworkable that even suggesting it out loud is a curse for the concern for the person who came up with the idea.

    A highly respected and erudite journalist came up with the idea: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8513543/PETER-HITCHENS-Forget-face-masks-fear-lets-relax-accept-risk.html

    From the article:

    "Every day I still see unhappy, frightened people cringing from human contact. They have been terrified almost out of their minds by foolish government propaganda, and the most basic trust, the very heart of civilisation, has been destroyed.

    This is another side of savage, unforgivably cruel rules which have prevented grandparents from touching their grandchildren, or forbidden people to visit close relatives, even spouses, in their dying weeks.

    Millions of us know this is all the most appalling rubbish, based on wild, wrong guesses and twisted figures, and one day soon I hope an icy public inquiry will condemn those responsible for the grave, incompetents they are.

    But in the meantime what are those of us who have not been cowed into submission to do?

    I suggest that we are allowed to register as ‘relaxed’. We will sign declarations that we will not sue anyone or claim on anyone’s insurance if we catch Covid-19. We regard it as a minor risk of life, to be coped with.

    In return, employers, shops, pubs, restaurants, churches, swimming pools and transport operators should (if they wish) ask staff if they too are prepared to declare themselves ‘relaxed’. Or they could recruit new staff who are.

    Where this happens, all the footling palaver of visors, muzzles, plastic screens, incessant obsessive use of hand-sanitiser and ‘social distancing’ will be abandoned.

    Trains can have special ‘relaxed’ carriages where refreshments are served and baleful, doom-laden announcements are turned off. The upper decks of buses will be ‘relaxed’, or perhaps one entire bus in three (till we see what the take-up is). Airlines can offer entire ‘relaxed’ flights.

    Everyone else can carry on, shrouded in gowns like the staff of a mortuary, muzzled in face-nappies, hiding from each other on footpaths and in doorways."


  • #1167
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Gradius wrote: »
    You can't half-quarantine a disease.

    When a "relaxed" person infects a non-relaxed person...

    Yes, that's the only problem. You'd have to have all the 'relaxed' people living among each other. It could work if you had part of the country for 'relaxed' people. And I'm not joking when I say this. I think it'd be a win win for everyone. It would mean people who want to live normally and take risks could do so, while people who don't could do so as well. It's just finding out a way to keep the 'relaxed' people away from the other people. And it'd be a temporary arrangement.


  • #1168
    Rrrrrr2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Rrrrrr2


    Gradius wrote: »
    You can't half-quarantine a disease.

    When a "relaxed" person infects a non-relaxed person...

    Which is exactly what’s happening now anyway? With endless restrictions
    This is a king Canute strategy at this stage


  • #1169
    Gradius
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭Gradius


    Rrrrrr2 wrote: »
    Which is exactly what’s happening now anyway? With endless restrictions
    This is a king Canute strategy at this stage

    That was my original question; what's the bloody plan here?

    Lockdowns don't provide an exit.
    Letting people do what they want won't provide an exit.

    So, where's plan 3?

    We're into this thing more than half a year now, and not a peep of a plan or strategy. Ludicrous.


  • #1170
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Rrrrrr2 wrote: »
    Which is exactly what’s happening now anyway? With endless restrictions
    This is a king Canute strategy at this stage

    King Canute indeed.

    I actually predict that what will eventually happen is that people who don't want new normal will get together and find somewhere where they can live normally as 'relaxed' persons.


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  • #1171
    Dionaibh
    Closed Accounts Posts: 734 ✭✭✭Dionaibh


    Gradius wrote: »
    That was my original question; what's the bloody plan here?

    Lockdowns don't provide an exit.
    Letting people do what they want won't provide an exit.

    So, where's plan 3?

    We're into this thing more than half a year now, and not a peep of a plan or strategy. Ludicrous.

    I think people registering as 'relaxed' is a plan, but for those who don't I guess the plan is a vaccine and then make up some nonsense about masks and all the other rubbish being still necessary.


This discussion has been closed.
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