Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

froog · 12-10-2020 10:34AM

38 free ICU beds, 420 free general beds.

Always_Running · 12-10-2020 10:35AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

What really annoys me is Herd Immunity gaslighting crapola.

I dont know a single farmer who would let sickness run through his/her herd. They would isolate the sick animal until better. Herd Immunity doesnt make financial sense. Sick herd, sick economy.

We dont even know if immunity to this virus is possible.
But we are being gaslit that its a possibility.

Measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox. Even WITH immunity to these diseases after infection, herd immunity never happened. Vaccination stamped them out.

Add in the now known long covid issues any country that runs with a Herd Immunity policy would be totally reckless.

Graces7 · 12-10-2020 10:35AM

Balagan1 wrote: »

Agreed, it needs to be kept at the two weeks.

But, above that risk to pensioners, is the fact that a lot of them are shopping in local shops and small supermarkets which, at lunchtime, are swamped with queues of secondary school students queing up outside in droves, masks only retrived from pockets as they go into the shops. With the refusal to make generally known the location of schools with covid cases, the older people (and everyone else) do not even know to avoid these particular shops. I know of various shops adjacent to schools with covid where the staff have quiety advised those old and vulnerable to phone in their orders rather than come in person. But the location of schools with covid needs, for many reasons, to be freely and generally available.

Have a look at the Tesco Delivery thread here.

OwenM · 12-10-2020 10:39AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

What really annoys me is Herd Immunity gaslighting crapola.

I dont know a single farmer who would let sickness run through his/her herd. They would isolate the sick animal until better. Herd Immunity doesnt make financial sense. Sick herd, sick economy.

We dont even know if immunity to this virus is possible.
But we are being gaslit that its a possibility.

Measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox. Even WITH immunity to these diseases after infection, herd immunity never happened. Vaccination stamped them out.

Measles, Mumps and Rubella were not stamped out. Limerick had an epidemic of mumps in February and Ireland is in danger of losing it's measles free status. This virus in endemic, WHO have stated is endemic, with or without a vaccine it will exist in our lives for the foreseeable future, probably decades. The only end game is herd immunity with or without a vaccine unless you want to bring us back to the dark ages socially and economically and in doing so kill many multiples more. Herd immunity is not eradication.

Graces7 · 12-10-2020 10:40AM

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

That's the scary thing about getting Corona alright. You just don't know what's gonna happen down the line.

agreed, and it looks in many cases akin to the CFS/ME that took over and …. reorganised for the worse... my life, after a bad flu 50 years ago. No more career etc .Still disabled.

It scares me how folk just wave covid-19 aside. Post Viral Fatigue is another name.

A terrible affliction.

12-10-2020 10:40AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

What really annoys me is Herd Immunity gaslighting crapola.

I dont know a single farmer who would let sickness run through his/her herd. They would isolate the sick animal until better. Herd Immunity doesnt make financial sense. Sick herd, sick economy.

We dont even know if immunity to this virus is possible.
But we are being gaslit that its a possibility.

Measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox. Even WITH immunity to these diseases after infection, herd immunity never happened. Vaccination stamped them out.

If herd immunity worked for this why is Sweden starting to see increasing cases in line with everyone else.
So far their approach seems, at least to me, to have resulted in more deaths than their neighboring countries and a similar drop in economic growth the last time I checked.

igCorcaigh · 12-10-2020 10:40AM

Northern Ireland... They don't test asymptomatic contacts of positive cases?

Did I hear that alright on rte radio?

Graces7 · 12-10-2020 10:42AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

What really annoys me is Herd Immunity gaslighting crapola.

I dont know a single farmer who would let sickness run through his/her herd. They would isolate the sick animal until better. Herd Immunity doesnt make financial sense. Sick herd, sick economy.

We dont even know if immunity to this virus is possible.
But we are being gaslit that its a possibility.

Measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox. Even WITH immunity to these diseases after infection, herd immunity never happened. Vaccination stamped them out.

Excellent comparison and look at the ministry rules re eg TB !

Graces7 · 12-10-2020 10:44AM

Just read of some students in Nottingham UK who had a party to celebrate.. . wait for this! - getting negative covid -19 test results.

heavy fines pending

It was on breaking news.

Funsterdelux · 12-10-2020 10:48AM

OwenM wrote: »

Measles, Mumps and Rubella were not stamped out. Limerick had an epidemic of mumps in February and Ireland is in danger of losing it's measles free status. This virus in endemic, WHO have stated is endemic, with or without a vaccine it will exist in our lives for the foreseeable future, probably decades. The only end game is herd immunity with or without a vaccine unless you want to bring us back to the dark ages socially and economically and in doing so kill many multiples more. Herd immunity is not eradication.

Maybe not the dark ages, maybe the renaissance or even Irelands golden era, the Bronze Age.

Funsterdelux · 12-10-2020 10:57AM

]

Luke Shy Banister wrote: »

You are surely not being serious?

12-10-2020 10:58AM

Graces7 wrote: »

Have a look at the Tesco Delivery thread here.

Many older people do not have access or the capability to online shopping. They like to go to their local shop for the few items they can carry, get a walk and exchange a few words. They need to be aware if there are covid cases in the local schools whose students swamp those local shops for lunchtime food.

petes · 12-10-2020 11:00AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Yes, its only 78% of asymptomatic, symptomatic or severe for the heart and lungs anyway.. kidneys testes, studies were done on moderate and severe cases only.

https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/guide-to-myocarditis-a-dangerous-heart-condition-affecting-up-to-78-percent-of-covid-19-infected-symptomatic-or-asymptomatic-individuals

Asymptomatic cases were not part of this study:

'They also do not represent patients during acute COVID-19 infection or those who are completely asymptomatic with COVID-19. '

Did you read it or just the headline?

12-10-2020 11:00AM

Just an example of the complete and utter losing of the plot by so many in this country

odyssey06 · 12-10-2020 11:01AM

Balagan1 wrote: »

Many older people do not have access or the capability to online shopping. They like to go to their local shop for the few items they can carry, get a walk and exchange a few words. They need to be aware if there are covid cases in the local schools whose students swamp those local shops for lunchtime food.

Ideally avoid the shops at lunchtime, if possible try to visit the local shops during the quieter hours 11-12.

Widdensushi · 12-10-2020 11:04AM

Miike wrote: »

So you've given up reading the breakdown of figures then and decided to make up your own narrative?

I am not making it up, the admissions and cases in hospital are not adding up, surely the question will be asked at the next news conference of those who can explain this fully,maybe there is another explanation but that people are catching it in hospital seems the most likely to me.

SeaBreezes · 12-10-2020 11:04AM

petes wrote: »

Asymptomatic cases were not part of this study:

'They also do not represent patients during acute COVID-19 infection or those who are completely asymptomatic with COVID-19. '

Did you read it or just the headline?

There are at least 5 studies referenced in the article and another 5 articles with links to more studies.

Which study in particular were you talking about?

Funsterdelux · 12-10-2020 11:04AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Just an example of the complete and utter losing of the plot by so many in this country

What example?

Seamai · 12-10-2020 11:08AM

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Northern Ireland... They don't test asymptomatic contacts of positive cases?

Did I hear that alright on rte radio?

Also most testing is self swabbing in Northern Ireland, I wonder how many of these are carried out incorrectly?

seamus · 12-10-2020 11:10AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Measles, mumps, rubella, smallpox. Even WITH immunity to these diseases after infection, herd immunity never happened. Vaccination stamped them out.

The key strategy of vaccination IS herd immunity.

Unfortunately, as you rightly point out, some people have jumped on herd immunity as a potential solution. But without a vaccine, it's not.

Because herd immunity doesn't really occur in the wild. It can occur in very isolated communities, but in ordinary communities, it doesn't.

Most diseases aren't quite infectious enough to bring about herd immunity on their own. Because if they did; they would be extinct. Instead the infect just enough people and just slowly/quickly enough to ensure that they can keep spreading out beyond the current community.

The Black Death killed about 50% of the population of London at the time. Heavily populated, living in filth, absolutely no concept of germ theory, no medicines or treatments.

And yet it *only* killed 50% of the population. The other half weren't immune, just lucky enough to not get infected or be strong enough to fight it off. While general immunity did increase - the mortality rate of the black death dropped to about 5% in the decades that followed - the infection was still circulating quite widely; an indicator that herd immunity was not reached.

This is why herd immunity is just not a thing unless you're talking about vaccinations or small closed communities.

The stage we're at now, we're going to be barraged with articles about why Covid is and isn't all that big a deal. There'll be vested interests looking to maintain people's focus, keep them scared of the virus, and others looking to make people scared for the economy.

It's important at this time that context is maintained and every claim reveiwed to find the facts.

Funsterdelux · 12-10-2020 11:10AM

Seamai wrote: »

Also most testing is self swabbing in Northern Ireland, I wonder how many of these are carried out incorrectly?

And secondary schools kids werent wearing masks in class when they went back.

Its a complete omnishambles up there

caveat emptor · 12-10-2020 11:11AM

Listening to CB about that nursing home outbreak in April, sounds like a horror movie.
Completely overrun.
https://twitter.com/Elders_defence/status/1315586365783003136?s=20

12-10-2020 11:14AM

odyssey06 wrote: »

Ideally avoid the shops at lunchtime, if possible try to visit the local shops during the quieter hours 11-12.

Older people obviously not going to local shops during times the shops have queues outside.

Unfortunately, the virus survives on various surfaces for various lengths of time.

What is the issue of not wanting it to be known where schools with covid cases are located locally? Or nationally for that matter?

Kermit.de.frog · 12-10-2020 11:19AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Go away with keeping your distance and wearing a mask, there not compatible with a great life.

It's your life.

Miike · 12-10-2020 11:21AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Go away with keeping your distance and wearing a mask, there not compatible with a great life.

You're being asked to wear a sheet of cloth over your face, not drag the rosetta stone around after you on a chain. Get a grip.

drunkmonkey · 12-10-2020 11:24AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's your life.

Exactly and nobody has any right to demand you interact with people in a certain way. That's you and those other people's decision and nobody else's.
Public health advice should be taken for what it is, advice.

SeaBreezes · 12-10-2020 11:24AM

Miike wrote: »

You're being asked to wear a sheet of cloth over your face, not drag the rosetta stone around after you on a chain. Get a grip.

Made me laugh out loud. Cheers

Away With The Fairies · 12-10-2020 11:25AM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's your life.

Thing is it's not just his life if he infects others.

odyssey06 · 12-10-2020 11:25AM

Balagan1 wrote: »

Older people obviously not going to local shops during times the shops have queues outside.
Unfortunately, the virus survives on various surfaces for various lengths of time.
What is the issue of not wanting it to be known where schools with covid cases are located locally? Or nationally for that matter?

I think you should assume it is everywhere and act accordingly, there's nowhere you should be letting your guard down. Whether it's local schools, processing plants, sports clubs etc

Away With The Fairies · 12-10-2020 11:26AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Exactly and nobody has any right to demand you interact with people in a certain way. That's you and those other people's decision and nobody else's.
Public health advice should be taken for what it is, advice.

Why do you think it's ok to infect others?

Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

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