Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings

hynesie08 · 11-10-2020 11:24PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I’ve explained it multiple times and I won’t do it again.

She didn’t, in fact one of my siblings didn’t get it until their late 20’s so my parents were not going out of their way to have us catch it.

You have never once explained it, every time you've been asked you run away. Like your doing now.....

Chicken pox is a harmless mild illness, I’ve had worse hangovers. It’s irrelevant if you get it or not.

If you're healthy, if your older or have underlying conditions it can contribute to death.....

Why aren't we locking the country down for that?

11-10-2020 11:26PM

growleaves wrote: »

Almost every single pandemic in the history of mankind has died-out and ceased to be a pandemic without a vaccine. Due to a comination of innate immunity and herd immunity.

Some of the people in the public sphere discussing herd immunity are long-standing epidemiologists with decades of experience. Why would I discount them as a person 'ever to listen to'? Even if they wrong, which is possible, why would every single thing they say be disqualified from consideration?

Rubbish, vaccines have eliminated or suppressed a hell of a lot of diseases that would otherwise be major issues.

11-10-2020 11:30PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

You have never once explained it, every time you've been asked you run away. Like your doing now.....

I have explained multiple time’s in multiple posts.

You lockdown until the virus is zero cases then you open up everything inside the county but essentially ban inward foreign travel by closing ports/airports and using the army to stop cross border trips.

Alternatively you get an all-Ireland agreement to close the island. I’ve said this and least 5 times in this thread alone and I won’t be doing it again.

hmmm · 11-10-2020 11:32PM

growleaves wrote: »

Sunetra Gupta was calling for exposure of healthy and young people (young = children, adolescents, young adults and the middle aged) to the disease.

The point is you're in a position to call someone like that a "crackpot" if you hadn't even heard of herd immunity until a few months ago.

There must be thousands of epidemiologists in the world and you can find only one to back up your views?

Let's try Devi Sridhar and the Presidents of multiple German research institutes in opposition:
https://twitter.com/devisridhar/status/1313733782235680768

If you want me to get more there are plenty to choose from.

Take your vaccination and stop being such a child looking for attention.

hynesie08 · 11-10-2020 11:36PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I have explained multiple time’s in multiple posts.

You lockdown until the virus is zero cases then you open up everything inside the county but essentially ban inward foreign travel by closing ports/airports and using the army to stop cross border trips.

Alternatively you get an all-Ireland agreement to close the island. I’ve said this and least 5 times in this thread alone and I won’t be doing it again.

And the half a million people who would be unemployed and unable to pay bills under your idea? The estimated 25% of businesses that would fail? The inevitable backlash if you install a hard border? Come on, you're nearly there, just admit its a pie in the sky fantasy....

growleaves · 11-10-2020 11:40PM

hmmm wrote: »

There must be thousands of epidemiologists in the world and you can find only one to back up your views?

That was one I picked off the top of my head. I could compile a list if you like. It is a point of view that is not that rare.

Take your vaccination and stop being such a child looking for attention.

I don't like your insulting tone here. It was a mistake to engage you in discussion.

I'm not opposed to vaccinations, I'm opposed to your totally unfounded confidence in dismissing all scientists who disagree with any point of view that you - a non-scientist - have glommed onto.

A month or two ago you were lecturing everyone about how the IFR was definitely 0.7% at the absolute lowest and dismissing scientists who hypothesised it could be lower. Now the WHO estimate that 780 million people have already contracted covid which, if true, means you were wrong.

11-10-2020 11:41PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

And the half a million people who would be unemployed and unable to pay bills under your idea? The estimated 25% of businesses that would fail? The inevitable backlash if you install a hard border? Come on, you're nearly there, just admit its a pie in the sky fantasy....

It’s not pie in the sky fantasy, there are not 500k jobs relaying on foreign travel you are just talking gutter as usual.

Had we closed airports and ports during the first lockdown we could be fully open and functioning internally now. The relatively small numbers out of work due to no tourism or airports etc wouldn’t be a massive drain to pay them until we could reopen fully when the vaccine comes along.

You can moan and whinge all you want but we will be going into another lockdown to get the virus under control and I’ll be here to say I told you so when it happens.

hmmm · 11-10-2020 11:45PM

growleaves wrote: »

That was one I picked off the top of my head. I could compile a list if you like. It is a point of view that is not that rare.

Yeah right

A month or two ago you were lecturing everyone about how the IFR was definitely 0.7% at the absolute lowest and dismissing scientists who hypothesised it could be lower. Now the WHO estimate that 780 million people have already contracted covid which, if true, means you were wrong.

I never said that so perhaps you're confusing me with someone else. For a start IFR will change depending on the age profile of the population, the IFR in Europe will be different to the IFR in Africa.

Anyway, we're getting off-topic here with your very personalised posting style.

charlie14 · 11-10-2020 11:54PM

hynesie08 wrote: »

And the half a million people who would be unemployed and unable to pay bills under your idea? The estimated 25% of businesses that would fail? The inevitable backlash if you install a hard border? Come on, you're nearly there, just admit its a pie in the sky fantasy....

Lockdown in Ireland was never meant to totally eliminate the virus. Nor other than perhaps New Zealand, anywhere else.

It was a means of reducing the spread of infections (and thus death) and ensuring our heath service was not over-run similar to that of Italy.

There is no evidence that not locking down, (admittedly we have only one country we can compare too on that), but on unemployment, GDP or consumer spending, they have fared no better. Worse if anything and their deaths are 60% higher than ours and many multiples of those of their neighbouring countries that used lockdown

hynesie08 · 11-10-2020 11:58PM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

It’s not pie in the sky fantasy, there are not 500k jobs relaying on foreign travel you are just talking gutter as usual.

Had we closed airports and ports during the first lockdown we could be fully open and functioning internally now. The relatively small numbers out of work due to no tourism or airports etc wouldn’t be a massive drain to pay them until we could reopen fully when the vaccine comes along.

You can moan and whinge all you want but we will be going into another lockdown to get the virus under control and I’ll be here to say I told you so when it happens.

Pubs
Restaurants
Hotels
Airports
Tourism
Arts
Live music

Not to mention the secondary industries involved with these.

All of these would be destroyed, for every one person we had living here we have 2 visiting, so your idea not only destroys the country, it creates a full on 1980s recession, and the emigration would put the 00s to shame.

You are a fantasist, whether it's about being a landlord, or that grown adults should live at home rent free (without their wife) or this. You are the walking embodiment that education does not equal intelligence......unless your making that up as well.

growleaves · 11-10-2020 11:59PM

Yeah right

Here you go:

Dr. Rajiv Bhatia, physician, epidemiologist and public policy expert at the Veterans Administration, USA

Dr. Stephen Bremner,professor of medical statistics, University of Sussex, England

Dr. Helen Colhoun, professor of medical informatics and epidemiology, and public health physician, University of Edinburgh, Scotland

Dr. Angus Dalgleish, oncologist, infectious disease expert and professor, St. George’s Hospital Medical School, University of London, England

Dr. Motti Gerlic, professor of clinical microbiology and immunology, Tel Aviv University, Israel

Dr. Gabriela Gomes, mathematician studying infectious disease epidemiology, professor, University of Strathclyde, Scotland

Dr. Andrius Kavaliunas, epidemiologist and assistant professor at Karolinska Institute, Sweden

Dr. Eyal Shahar, physician, epidemiologist and professor (emeritus) of public health, University of Arizona, USA

Dr. Rodney Sturdivant, infectious disease scientist and associate professor of biostatistics, Baylor University, USA

Dr. Simon Thornley, epidemiologist and biostatistician, University of Auckland, New Zealand

Dr. Lisa White, professor of modelling and epidemiology, Oxford University, England

I could name more if I had more time to compile and collate. Bed now.

hmmm · 11-10-2020 11:59PM

growleaves wrote: »

I could find more if I had more time. Bed now.

I've never heard of any of these people. Is this from the grandiose sounding "Barrington Declaration" signed by "‘Dr Johnny Fartpants’ and ‘Professor Notaf Uckingclue’"?

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-herd-immunity-great-barrington-declaration-scientists-signatures-fake-names-b912778.html

hynesie08 · 12-10-2020 12:00AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Lockdown in Ireland was never meant to totally eliminate the virus. Nor other than perhaps New Zealand, anywhere else.

It was a means of reducing the spread of infections (and thus death) and ensuring our heath service was not over-run similar to that of Italy.

There is no evidence that not locking down, (admittedly we have only one country we can compare too on that), but on unemployment, GDP or consumer spending, they have fared no better. Worse if anything and their deaths are 60% higher than ours and many multiples of those of their neighbouring countries that used lockdown

The summer lockdown was absolutely necessary, I'm not denying that, but the idea that Ireland can survive as a locked down insular country while the rest of the world carries on is just not believable.

Zebra3 · 12-10-2020 12:03AM

Tenzor07 wrote: »

There's dozens of people on here copying and pasting from Google searches like mad to present what they find as facts on here to counter the various arguments, yet they will slate those who follow Ivor Cummins and call him unqualified!

There's even one dude on here Noxtradamus who thinks he can predict the future!

Sure there's been no shortage of people saying a vaccine is on the way.

Now there may be a vaccine a some stage, and we'd all love one if the virus doesn't disappear, but there are no guarantees.

Doesn't stop the extremists though.

12-10-2020 12:06AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

Pubs
Restaurants
Hotels
Airports
Tourism
Arts
Live music
.

Pubs, restaurants, arts, hotels and live music will all operate with Ireland isolated. It might not be as busy but they could all operate and make money. There would still be tourism from people travelling around their own country, wouldn’t make up for no foreign travel but since no one could holiday abroad the level of holidaying in Ireland by people living in Ireland would massively increase.

Airports would no doubt be in serious trouble but these jobs could be supposed by the government.

You are looking for any excuses you can to find fault with my suggestion. It wouldn’t be easy but it could work and is very far from the “fantasy” you think it would be.

growleaves · 12-10-2020 12:06AM

hmmm wrote: »

I've never heard of any of these people. Good try though.

Er as opposed to celebrity epidemiologists?

You'd have heard of Oxford University and the University of Edinburgh (I would hope)

dundalkfc10 · 12-10-2020 12:07AM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

I have explained multiple time’s in multiple posts.

You lockdown until the virus is zero cases then you open up everything inside the county but essentially ban inward foreign travel by closing ports/airports and using the army to stop cross border trips.

Alternatively you get an all-Ireland agreement to close the island. I’ve said this and least 5 times in this thread alone and I won’t be doing it again.

I couldn't stop laughing at using the army to stop cross border trips 😂😂

They going to set up a checkpoint at every crossing in the country?

What about people who may travel in and out of North multiple times to get to work. People living one side but working the other?

drunkmonkey · 12-10-2020 12:11AM

Zebra3 wrote: »

Sure there's been no shortage of people saying a vaccine is on the way.

Now there may be a vaccine a some stage, and we'd all love one if the virus doesn't disappear, but there are no guarantees.

Doesn't stop the extremists though.

Harris wasn't too confident...didn't find one for the other 18 Coronaviruses.....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQpYUW7-RhE

Plumbthedepths · 12-10-2020 12:12AM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I couldn't stop laughing at using the army to stop cross border trips ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

They going to set up a checkpoint at every crossing in the country?

What about people who may travel in and out of North multiple times to get to work. People living one side but working the other?

A poster on the main thread said noone from NI should be travelling to the ROI to work. I asked should my cousin who lives in Strabane quit her job but works in Letterkenny. The reply was she should sign on to the UK pup payment. Got upset and nasty when I said she is a doctor working in LKGH.

hynesie08 · 12-10-2020 12:12AM

Jorge Limited Maze wrote: »

Pubs, restaurants, arts, hotels and live music will all operate with Ireland isolated. It might not be as busy but they could all operate and make money. There would still be tourism from people travelling around their own country, wouldn’t make up for no foreign travel but since no one could holiday abroad the level of holidaying in Ireland by people living in Ireland would massively increase.

Airports would no doubt be in serious trouble but these jobs could be supposed by the government.

You are looking for any excuses you can to find fault with my suggestion. It wouldn’t be easy but it could work and is very far from the “fantasy” you think it would be.

I don't need to look for an excuse, you haven't a breeze......

charlie14 · 12-10-2020 12:12AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

The summer lockdown was absolutely necessary, I'm not denying that, but the idea that Ireland can survive as a locked down insular country while the rest of the world carries on is just not believable.

Aren`t you making a few assumptions?
That we will have a countrywide lockdown while all others continue on without any form of restrictions.
There is also the consideration that if you allow the virus to just run rampant, how that will effect unemployment, GDP, consumer spending, health services, deaths, medium and long term health problems from Covid-19 infections

hynesie08 · 12-10-2020 12:14AM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

I couldn't stop laughing at using the army to stop cross border trips 😂😂

They going to set up a checkpoint at every crossing in the country?

What about people who may travel in and out of North multiple times to get to work. People living one side but working the other?

That's just the logistics, the army wouldn't have a hope when the RA come cracking skulls.....

charlie14 · 12-10-2020 12:21AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

A poster on the main thread said noone from NI should be travelling to the ROI to work. I asked should my cousin who lives in Strabane quit her job but works in Letterkenny. The reply was she should sign on to the UK pup payment. Got upset and nasty when I said she is a doctor working in LKGH.

If the poster is from Donegal and you consider the numbers in NI and the area of Donegal where the initial large rise in numbers were, (the border areas of Strabane and Derry), while I would not excuse it, I can understand that more than that poster may feel the same.

Plumbthedepths · 12-10-2020 12:28AM

charlie14 wrote: »

If the poster is from Donegal and you consider the numbers in NI and the area of Donegal where the initial large rise in numbers were, (the border areas of Strabane and Derry), while I would not excuse it, I can understand that more than that poster may feel the same.

Actually they got annoyed because I waited till they said she should quit and claim the pup before I stated she was a doctor, it was ok then because she's an essential worker. Does Covid make the distinction?

Plumbthedepths · 12-10-2020 12:29AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

That's just the logistics, the army wouldn't have a hope when the RA come cracking skulls.....

Fun fact many RA members joined the now defunct FCA in border counties to get weapons training.

charlie14 · 12-10-2020 12:37AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Actually they got annoyed because I waited till they said she should quit and claim the pup before I stated she was a doctor, it was ok then because she's an essential worker. Does Covid make the distinction?

I cannot speak for them, but for myself I imagine the risks of a hospital doctor compared to a random border crosser from NI infecting people would be at a much much lower level. If any.

As I said, not excusing it, but with NI numbers, especially those of Strabane and Derry and the area of Donegal where the initial surge in numbers were, it`s difficult to look at it as just sheer coincidence.

dundalkfc10 · 12-10-2020 12:42AM

hynesie08 wrote: »

That's just the logistics, the army wouldn't have a hope when the RA come cracking skulls.....

They would also be a threat from Loyalist criminals too, if it ever did happen prepare for loads leaving the army. I'd rather do Iraq

dalyboy · 12-10-2020 12:44AM

charlie14 wrote: »

Can you give a single example of where HERD IMMUNITY has been achieved or even close to being achieved ?

Sweden (utopia) is leading the way.
They are presenting to the world 3 things.
Herd immunity strategy is
(1) the scientific based approach
(2) the moral approach
(3) the SANE approach

If you disagree then fine.
You are a tin foil hat wearer

Herd immunity is supported by scientists from Stanford university, Oxford university and Harvard university.
These epidemiologists are the top of the top of their game.
They make NPHET look like first graders

I’ll take their assessment for the best solution waaayyyyyy before our clowns.

hynesie08 · 12-10-2020 12:55AM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

They would also be a threat from Loyalist criminals too, if it ever did happen prepare for loads leaving the army. I'd rather do Iraq

I think it depends on which army his scenario has, think the loyalists would be happy to sit back and let republicans pick off irish soldiers....

charlie14 · 12-10-2020 12:58AM

dalyboy wrote: »

Sweden (utopia) is leading the way.
They are presenting to the world 3 things.
Herd immunity strategy is
(1) the scientific based approach
(2) the moral approach
(3) the SANE approach

If you disagree then fine.
You are a tin foil hat wearer

Herd immunity is supported by scientists from Stanford university, Oxford university and Harvard university.
These epidemiologists are the top of the top of their game.
They make NPHET look like first graders

I’ll take their assessment for the best solution waaayyyyyy before our clowns.

Tin foil hat wearers are those that ignore reality .

Something you have managed to do with all your points while being, I assume careful, not to mention a few others that you strongly suspect would require the purchase of more tin foil for an ever bigger hat. .

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part VI - Read OP for Mod Warnings