Galway - BusConnects

marno21 · 12-06-2018 1:16am #1

200m in the NDP for the Galway BusConnects scheme, which will likely heavily involve using the old N6 Bothar na dTreabh which is to be freed up for multimodal use in circa. 2025 when the new Ring Road is built (planning permisson pending)

From the existing Bus Eireann Galway network:

In Galway, the corresponding figures are 9km of bus lane on 132km of routes (10pc).

Several pinch points have also been identified - particularly around industrial estates and accessing Eyre Square, where speeds at peak times range from 2.6kmh to 24kmh, but the average is just 9.6kmh.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/bus-speeds-in-some-cities-average-just-1kmh-amid-fears-of-1m-timetable-target-fines-36996316.html

marno21 · 27-07-2018 4:03pm

CEO of Galway City Council on RTE Radio 1 this morning:

Non-statutory public consultation to begin in September 2018
Submission to An Bord Pleanala in Q1 2019
Expected construction start in 2020
Rationalisation of existing network from 11 routes to 5 routes.
77% of the population within 10 minutes walk of a bus stop
Network of P&R sites to be built on approaches to the city with full integration to the bus network

27-07-2018 8:55pm

5 routes?

I can't see how that's going to increase usage as Those are going to be some long-ass routes

CatInABox · 27-07-2018 9:16pm

Deleted User wrote: »

5 routes?

I can't see how that's going to increase usage as Those are going to be some long-ass routes

At a guess, I'd imagine that the 5 routes are going to be going to be similar to the "spines" in the Dublin BusConnects plan, going into the city centre and out the other side. In other words, those 5 routes are technically ten routes.

I'll admit though, I have no clue about public transport in Galway, don't even know the existing routes or anything.

Fitz* · 04-10-2018 4:16pm

I really hope that the revised bus timetables that came into place in Galway recently are not the only changes that are being made.

Maria Byrne, in the Regional Manager's Office for BE said that the changes to these timetables were going to improve the service. The change they made was that a bus leaves ONE stop 2 minutes earlier than before. That was the only change that was made to the entire route and service. And this change isn't even being adhered to. Laughable.

Fitz* · 04-10-2018 4:19pm

CatInABox wrote: »

At a guess, I'd imagine that the 5 routes are going to be going to be similar to the "spines" in the Dublin BusConnects plan, going into the city centre and out the other side. In other words, those 5 routes are technically ten routes.

I'll admit though, I have no clue about public transport in Galway, don't even know the existing routes or anything.

As far as I know, the people who set the routes for Galway are actually sitting in an office in Dublin. Are they even aware of which roads are heaviest for traffic?

Some bus routes take some crazy directions that make little sense.

McGiver · 12-11-2018 2:48pm

There must be one orbital route and/or direct routes from residential hubs to the business parks in the East avoiding the city center. I hope they plan some.

And, I repeat, no cash - a total electronic fare solution, driver not handling fare/cash. And then also two-three door buses, hind doors for unloading, front door for loading.

Stopping at one stop to handle cash/fare and load/unload, can't take 1 minute as it does now, it must be 10 seconds. The traffic must flow.

youngrun · 13-11-2018 8:01pm

Are there any documents on this plan from Galway City council or other sources

Ruhanna · 13-11-2018 9:14pm

McGiver wrote: »

There must be one orbital route and/or direct routes from residential hubs to the business parks in the East avoiding the city center. I hope they plan some.

And, I repeat, no cash - a total electronic fare solution, driver not handling fare/cash. And then also two-three door buses, hind doors for unloading, front door for loading.

Stopping at one stop to handle cash/fare and load/unload, can't take 1 minute as it does now, it must be 10 seconds. The traffic must flow.

Of course there isn't one in the Galway Transport Strategy.

The entire purpose of the GTS (and all the 'analysis' that went into it) is to justify the foregone conclusion that has been the only game in town for 25 years: a "bypass" or a ring road as it's being called now.

For that reason, an orbital bus service would only serve to undermine the case for a ring road, so the GTS is partly based on the patently ridiculous premise that there are enough people commuting across town to justify a ring road costing two thirds of a billion Euro but not enough to justify a bus service.

An orbital bus route was part of the City Council Transport Unit's Business Plan, but they did nothing about it (naturally) and suddenly started to oppose it when a ring road for car commuters (as opposed to an outer bypass for non-city traffic) became the new object of desire.

The National Transport Authority, while supporting the spending of €650 million on a motorway, says that an orbital bus route would not be viable, and therefore plans to leave cross-town commuters without such a service.

This policy of ignoring bus commuters while prioritising car commuters is also endorsed by the County Council and Galway Chamber of Commerce.

Ruhanna · 13-11-2018 10:23pm

youngrun wrote: »

Are there any documents on this plan from Galway City council or other sources

Here you go: https://www.galwaycity.ie/galway-transport-strategy

youngrun · 14-11-2018 9:23am

Ruhanna wrote: »

Of course there isn't one in the Galway Transport Strategy.

The entire purpose of the GTS (and all the 'analysis' that went into it) is to justify the foregone conclusion that has been the only game in town for 25 years: a "bypass" or a ring road as it's being called now.

For that reason, an orbital bus service would only serve to undermine the case for a ring road, so the GTS is partly based on the patently ridiculous premise that there are enough people commuting across town to justify a ring road costing two thirds of a billion Euro but not enough to justify a bus service.

An orbital bus route was part of the City Council Transport Unit's Business Plan, but they did nothing about it (naturally) and suddenly started to oppose it when a ring road for car commuters (as opposed to an outer bypass for non-city traffic) became the new object of desire.

The National Transport Authority, while supporting the spending of €650 million on a motorway, says that an orbital bus route would not be viable, and therefore plans to leave cross-town commuters without such a service.

This policy of ignoring bus commuters while prioritising car commuters is also endorsed by the County Council and Galway Chamber of Commerce.

Thanks
Hard to believe no orbital route ? Surely this is essential given huge numbers of cross city commuters .

marno21 · 20-11-2018 4:15am

https://connachttribune.ie/park-of-shantalla-park-set-to-become-bus-corridor-990/

what_traffic · 20-11-2018 12:00pm

marno21 wrote: »

https://connachttribune.ie/park-of-shantalla-park-set-to-become-bus-corridor-990/

Would like to see the plans for this. A bus corridor through the Hospital Grounds as well?

Chief Executive of the City Council, Brendan McGrath, confirmed that the Browne roundabout in Westside (to the rear of the hospital at Corrib Park) will be removed to make way for a five-arm traffic light junction.

Does that mean 24/7 access into the Hospital. Currently have a gate on this arm during night time.

The Tribal Roundabouts of Galway City look like they are finally going the way of the DODO

Meanwhile, Uinsinn Finn, Senior Executive Engineer, confirmed that plans to remove Browne roundabout will proceed once Compulsory Purchase Orders issue for the removal of Kirwan Roundabout (at Menlo Park Hotel). Transport Infrastructure Ireland (TII) will fund the cost of the works.

Mr Finn said also confirmed that plans are in the pipeline to remove the Martin roundabout (at Galway Clinic) and convert to a signalised junction; to remove Skerritt Roundabout (at GMIT) to replace it with traffic lights; and to remove D’Arcy Roundabout (Seapoint) and put in traffic lights

youngrun · 20-11-2018 4:24pm

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Yep yet we have people telling us Galway does not need a bypass as buses will solve everything, only to find out there is not an orbital bus route

I cannot believe there is no demand for an orbital bus route ? Who on earth drew up this study and have they seen the traffic numbers cross city daily ? Its as plain as day theres a need for multiple cross city buses on the QCB/BNT and DR/Oranmore road areas east west

what_traffic · 20-11-2018 6:20pm

youngrun wrote: »

I cannot believe there is no demand for an orbital bus route ? Who on earth drew up this study and have they seen the traffic numbers cross city daily ? Its as plain as day theres a need for multiple cross city buses on the QCB/BNT and DR/Oranmore road areas east west

I guess you gotta ask - in whose interest does it serve that an orbital bus route is not provided for?

serfboard · 20-11-2018 7:26pm

Ruhanna wrote: »

An orbital bus service would only serve to undermine the case for a ring road, so the GTS is partly based on the patently ridiculous premise that there are enough people commuting across town to justify a ring road costing two thirds of a billion Euro but not enough to justify a bus service.

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

Yep yet we have people telling us Galway does not need a bypass as buses will solve everything, only to find out there is not an orbital bus route

youngrun wrote: »

I cannot believe there is no demand for an orbital bus route ? Who on earth drew up this study and have they seen the traffic numbers cross city daily ? Its as plain as day theres a need for multiple cross city buses on the QCB/BNT and DR/Oranmore road areas east west

what_traffic wrote: »

I guess you gotta ask - in whose interest does it serve that an orbital bus route is not provided for?

This is really something that the Comptroller and Auditor General should be investigating - before the big spend on the Bypass. I can just imagine the report from that office in years to come:

The bypass has not solved the traffic problems in Galway despite the hundreds of millions being spent on it.

The decision not to provide an Orbital Bus Service in Galway was a grave mistake driven by a car-centric mindset at the Local Authority.

riddlinrussell · 09-10-2020 11:31am

Galway Busconnects - Dublin Road corridor consultation has begun

https://www.bcgdublinroad.ie/pages/home.php

cgcsb · 10-10-2020 1:47pm

A non statutory consultation on only one corridor that doesnt extend into the city centre and is already wide enough, 2 years after the strategy was launched. Wow, such progress.

Pete_Cavan · 11-10-2020 12:33pm

I assume they are starting with the easy route to get the ball rolling rather than fighting battles all over the city at the same time like in Dublin. They even drop the bus lane in front of the Connacht Hotel, I assume to avoid creating controversy with buying out the cottage beside it. It would make more sense to drop the eastbound bus lane which could be provided later if the cottage and a strip in front of the hotel was bought later.

Galway is such a disaster in the way it was planned and developed for decades that there are very few easy wins for BusConnects. I assume the only option for getting bus lanes into the city centre will be one was systems on College Road and Lough Atalia Road with one of the lanes on each becoming a bus lane?

cgcsb · 11-10-2020 1:22pm

Bus connects Dublin already solved the issue of providing bus priority and maintaining car access on much more complex and lengthy roads using priority lights, one way systems etc. Problem is this requires enforcement either by gardai or local authority.

The gardai are not interested. Dublin City Council might be shamed into some minimum level enforcement out of laziness. There's a 0% chance of Galway Council enforcing any such thing because of small town thinking.

The NTA could use camera enforcement but that requires a law change and there's no political will for giving fines to good decent pillars of the community who want to drive/park illegally wherever they like without consequence.

tharlear · 14-10-2020 2:49am

I love the picture of the bike lane separated from the road by a wall. Although it would need to be at least 1.5 tall to stop people just walking on the bike path. Pity they did not do this on Seamus Quirke road.

McGiver · 14-10-2020 11:05am

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Galway Busconnects - Dublin Road corridor consultation has begun

https://www.bcgdublinroad.ie/pages/home.php

The website has a very poor design (actually, even to the point of being comical in 2020). The picture on the top of the landing page shows a bus which looks like 1980s bus. Any under-graduate would create a more decent website.

The visualisations and photomontages look like done by a high-school student :rolleyes:

https://storage.net-fs.com/hosting/6414124/7/index.htm

I'd like to know how much did the [whoever ordered this] paid for this. Assuming taxpayer's money was spent.

McGiver · 14-10-2020 11:07am

cgcsb wrote: »

Bus connects Dublin already solved the issue of providing bus priority and maintaining car access on much more complex and lengthy roads using priority lights, one way systems etc. Problem is this requires enforcement either by gardai or local authority.

The gardai are not interested. Dublin City Council might be shamed into some minimum level enforcement out of laziness. There's a 0% chance of Galway Council enforcing any such thing because of small town thinking.

The NTA could use camera enforcement but that requires a law change and there's no political will for giving fines to good decent pillars of the community who want to drive/park illegally wherever they like without consequence.

That's why you need light-rail. BRT is an Asian/Latin American and marginally North American & UK thing. Nobody seriously considers BRT as a primary urban public transport solution in Europe. It would be left as a last option if you can't do anything else for whatever reason.

what_traffic · 14-10-2020 11:26am

McGiver wrote: »

The website has a very poor design (actually, even to the point of being comical in 2020). The picture on the top of the landing page shows a bus which looks like 1980s bus. Any under-graduate would create a more decent website.

The visualisations and photomontages look like done by a high-school student :rolleyes:

https://storage.net-fs.com/hosting/6414124/7/index.htm

I'd like to know how much did the [whoever ordered this] paid for this. Assuming taxpayer's money was spent.

City Council Roads Dept. Road in question is not a National Road. Would need to get a local Cllr to ask at a Council meeting for this specific cost of the Website. Overall cost figures probably available on the Council website itself if you start digging.

Sam Russell · 14-10-2020 1:04pm

McGiver wrote: »

That's why you need light-rail. BRT is an Asian/Latin American and marginally North American & UK thing. Nobody seriously considers BRT as a primary urban public transport solution in Europe. It would be left as a last option if you can't do anything else for whatever reason.

They have trolley buses in Geneva which is a form of BRT. It works for them, but Geneva is a small place. Not sure of other Swiss cities.

riddlinrussell · 14-10-2020 1:11pm

McGiver wrote: »

That's why you need light-rail. BRT is an Asian/Latin American and marginally North American & UK thing. Nobody seriously considers BRT as a primary urban public transport solution in Europe. It would be left as a last option if you can't do anything else for whatever reason.

On current Cost-Benefit calculations not many places in Ireland meet the criteria for building light rail, given that light rail will invariably be mostly on street running in Irish cities I see no reason why they couldn't start as BRT with a view to becoming light rail in the future, given it is considerably cheaper?

There is documentation available on this from the Belfast BRT schemes. Wesley Johnson I think has some of it written up in his sections on the Glider.
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/belfastrapidtransit.html

Now its not going to be 1:1 applicable but you can see the reason they went for the BRT.

Pete_Cavan · 14-10-2020 1:54pm

Does Galway have much of a bus fleet at present? I think Galway (and our other small cities) should go with single level articulated buses. They can look much more sleek than a bulky double decker, are more comfortable inside, have more doors for faster boarding/alighting, are better able to accommodate buggies, wheelchairs, etc. Long stops would have to be provided but would work well on continuous bus lanes like those proposed on Dublin Road (and hopefully on numerous other roads in Galway).

serfboard · 14-10-2020 6:41pm

McGiver wrote: »

That's why you need light-rail.

Light rail is not needed and won't be provided. Bus Connects is all that is on offer for Galway.

Sam Russell · 14-10-2020 7:02pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Does Galway have much of a bus fleet at present? I think Galway (and our other small cities) should go with single level articulated buses. They can look much more sleek than a bulky double decker, are more comfortable inside, have more doors for faster boarding/alighting, are better able to accommodate buggies, wheelchairs, etc. Long stops would have to be provided but would work well on continuous bus lanes like those proposed on Dublin Road (and hopefully on numerous other roads in Galway).

Having suffered the bendy buses on the No 10 route, bouncing along in the back, I would not recommend them. In fact, Dublin bus has got rid of them all.

If you need single decker buses, get ones that have at least 4 axles and look like trams.

tharlear · 14-10-2020 7:56pm

Galway had double decker in the early 80s, I think they were all gone by the 90s. They are using double decker now but I don't know when they were brought back.. 2000s I would guess.

cgcsb · 14-10-2020 8:16pm

McGiver wrote: »

That's why you need light-rail. BRT is an Asian/Latin American and marginally North American & UK thing. Nobody seriously considers BRT as a primary urban public transport solution in Europe. It would be left as a last option if you can't do anything else for whatever reason.

Why is light rail different? I've seen people park on luas tracks in Dublin, to go shopping. There arent sufficient punishments in this country for that sort of thing and we're presently too individualistic a society for that to change quickly.

Whatever about the actual arguments for light rail, using it as an alternative to enforcement isn't an option.

cgcsb · 14-10-2020 8:22pm

riddlinrussell wrote: »

On current Cost-Benefit calculations not many places in Ireland meet the criteria for building light rail, given that light rail will invariably be mostly on street running in Irish cities I see no reason why they couldn't start as BRT with a view to becoming light rail in the future, given it is considerably cheaper?

There is documentation available on this from the Belfast BRT schemes. Wesley Johnson I think has some of it written up in his sections on the Glider.
http://www.wesleyjohnston.com/roads/belfastrapidtransit.html

Now its not going to be 1:1 applicable but you can see the reason they went for the BRT.

It was a mistake in Belfast, the slight improvement in capacity has already been absorbed. Light rail was indeed merited there. Not that it isnt suitable for a smaller city like Galway. Bus Connects Dublin Shows you can produce almost all the benefits of BRT with the existing buses, double door operation, a flat fare and cashless operation. A bus connects style system is also a lot cheaper than BRT.

dublinman1990 · 14-10-2020 8:25pm

tharlear wrote: »

Galway had double decker in the early 80s, I think they were all gone by the 90s. They are using double decker now but I don't know when they were brought back.. 2000s I would guess.

The new ADL Hybrid double deck's should be making their way to BÉ in Galway very soon.

Anyone know what date they will arrive to add to the current double deck fleet?

riddlinrussell · 15-10-2020 1:16am

cgcsb wrote: »

It was a mistake in Belfast, the slight improvement in capacity has already been absorbed. Light rail was indeed merited there. Not that it isnt suitable for a smaller city like Galway. Bus Connects Dublin Shows you can produce almost all the benefits of BRT with the existing buses, double door operation, a flat fare and cashless operation. A bus connects style system is also a lot cheaper than BRT.

I won't disagree with the assessment of the Glider, serious failure to plan ahead. Maybe we will see more ambition in the North-South version...

But yes, a city of 500,000 plus is a different proposition to Galway.

Honestly BRT to me means offboard ticketing or full driverless ticketing, full priority bus lane for entire route, and multiple door buses. They dont have to be special custom yokes like the Glider. Busconnects gets you part of the way there, but it could have a little more ambition I think.

Sam Russell · 15-10-2020 9:12am

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I won't disagree with the assessment of the Glider, serious failure to plan ahead. Maybe we will see more ambition in the North-South version...

But yes, a city of 500,000 plus is a different proposition to Galway.

Honestly BRT to me means offboard ticketing or full driverless ticketing, full priority bus lane for entire route, and multiple door buses. They dont have to be special custom yokes like the Glider. Busconnects gets you part of the way there, but it could have a little more ambition I think.

The could get the same result using frequent buses in enforced bus lanes. Fast ticket validation, or off bus validation would speed entry and the side allows fast egress. Long single decker buses have problems with corners in cities like Galway - as the Dublin experienced on the No 10 route.

The BRT is an unnecessary extra expense to provide a service that can be provided more flexibly by the double decker buses used in Dublin. What are the advantages provided by BRT that a conventional bus cannot achieve?

riddlinrussell · 15-10-2020 10:21am

Sam Russell wrote: »

The could get the same result using frequent buses in enforced bus lanes. Fast ticket validation, or off bus validation would speed entry and the side allows fast egress. Long single decker buses have problems with corners in cities like Galway - as the Dublin experienced on the No 10 route.

The BRT is an unnecessary extra expense to provide a service that can be provided more flexibly by the double decker buses used in Dublin. What are the advantages provided by BRT that a conventional bus cannot achieve?

I think you're getting crossed wires, I'm saying that what you (and I) am describing, I would consider 'BRT', with no need for specialised vehicles.

The most rapid aspect of such a service would be enforced bus lanes for the whole length, no need to purchase bendy buses.

Sam Russell · 15-10-2020 11:41am

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I think you're getting crossed wires, I'm saying that what you (and I) am describing, I would consider 'BRT', with no need for specialised vehicles.

The most rapid aspect of such a service would be enforced bus lanes for the whole length, no need to purchase bendy buses.

Good to hear that - I hate bendy buses with a passion.

What is the point of bus lanes that are not enforced?

riddlinrussell · 15-10-2020 11:46am

Sam Russell wrote: »

Good to hear that - I hate bendy buses with a passion.

What is the point of bus lanes that are not enforced?

Don't ask me, ask An Garda Síochána and the minister for Transport....

I mean if they were camera enforced lanes then they would be fast and reliable

Pete_Cavan · 15-10-2020 12:11pm

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I think you're getting crossed wires, I'm saying that what you (and I) am describing, I would consider 'BRT', with no need for specialised vehicles.

The most rapid aspect of such a service would be enforced bus lanes for the whole length, no need to purchase bendy buses.

Its not about a need to purchase bendy buses, there should be a want to purchase bendy buses. Modern articulated buses are far superior to whatever bus people used decades ago and are also superior to modern double deckers. When coupled with offboard ticketing (very simple in this day and age), the multiple doors allow for very fast boarding/alighting which when also combined with continuous bus lanes makes for fast services and hence greater frequencies. A huge amount of the lower saloon floor space on a double decker is taken up by circulation, space for buggies/wheelchairs and the stairs. They are not attractive for many people, those with children who may not want to or be able to go upstairs, those with mobility difficulties, anyone with a bulky item or bag who dont want to leave it unattended downstairs, etc.

Articulated buses are the backbone of bus services in cities around Europe, most of whom offer better services than here. The obsession with double deckers here seems to be based on the carrying capacity of double deckers and a bad experience CIE had with articulated buses ages ago. Since then, articulated buses have improved immensely and the carry capacity of double deckers has reduced as they try to offer some of the things inherent in articulated buses (multiple doors, space for buggies/wheelchairs). Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to change mindsets here, both in official Ireland and general public (as another poster here has conveniently proven).

McGiver · 15-10-2020 12:32pm

serfboard wrote: »

Light rail is not needed and won't be provided. Bus Connects is all that is on offer for Galway.

I'd dispute "not needed". The "won't be provided" is probably a realistic opinion, but campaigning could (and I believe would) change it.

Agree that Bus Connects is probably all Galway can get now.

McGiver · 15-10-2020 12:33pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

Good to hear that - I hate bendy buses with a passion.

What is the point of bus lanes that are not enforced?

Why? Very many cities on the continent use bendy buses, they're better - higher capacity.

I believe Belfast BRT counts on bendy buses too.

Sam Russell · 15-10-2020 12:37pm

McGiver wrote: »

I'd dispute "not needed". The "won't be provided" is probably a realistic opinion, but campaigning could (and I believe would) change it.

Agree that Bus Connects is probably all Galway can get now.

I think bus connects is a pre-requisite for any improvement for PT in Galway. The need to prove there would be a demand for PT resulting in modal shift is fundamental.

Who would have thought that Luas would be so popular in Dublin that it would be jammers night and day? Anyone who would have thought that would have campaigned for Metro.

McGiver · 15-10-2020 12:43pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Its not about a need to purchase bendy buses, there should be a want to purchase bendy buses. Modern articulated buses are far superior to whatever bus people used decades ago and are also superior to modern double deckers. When coupled with offboard ticketing (very simple in this day and age), the multiple doors allow for very fast boarding/alighting which when also combined with continuous bus lanes makes for fast services and hence greater frequencies. A huge amount of the lower saloon floor space on a double decker is taken up by circulation, space for buggies/wheelchairs and the stairs. They are not attractive for many people, those with children who may not want to or be able to go upstairs, those with mobility difficulties, anyone with a bulky item or bag who dont want to leave it unattended downstairs, etc.

Articulated buses are the backbone of bus services in cities around Europe, most of whom offer better services than here. The obsession with double deckers here seems to be based on the carrying capacity of double deckers and a bad experience CIE had with articulated buses ages ago. Since then, articulated buses have improved immensely and the carry capacity of double deckers has reduced as they try to offer some of the things inherent in articulated buses (multiple doors, space for buggies/wheelchairs). Unfortunately it is extremely difficult to change mindsets here, both in official Ireland and general public (as another poster here has conveniently proven).

Exactly what I say. The issue is in the head (i.e. mindset) here...

Double-decker - obsolete, British, failed concept (good for a museum of tech though)
Single decker non-bendy - obsolete, suitable for small town at best

The whole Europe isn't using double-deckers in urban networks and is using modern bendy low floor buses as much as possible, they are better, high throughput, more doors for loading/unloading etc.

EDIT: Modern bendy buses are also more user friendly, for prams, luggage etc. I lived in cities that use them extensively along with tram systems and compared to that Dublin double-decker (or DD in England) is very unpleasant experience.

McGiver · 15-10-2020 12:50pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I think bus connects is a pre-requisite for any improvement for PT in Galway. The need to prove there would be a demand for PT resulting in modal shift is fundamental.

Who would have thought that Luas would be so popular in Dublin that it would be jammers night and day? Anyone who would have thought that would have campaigned for Metro.

The issue with this argument I have is that due to dysfunctional local government in Ireland where there is basically no local autonomy in cities/counties, especially in transport matters, and especially a fiscal autonomy, what is likely to happen is that Galway will get few of these bus lanes (aka Bus Connects) and that will be it for a long time as no more money will be given by the Dublin administration.

Also, tram track goes in the middle of the avenue, not on the sides, which will be situation of these quasi-BRT arrangements in Galway (if it actually happens). So you're down to major rehaul from BRT-like situation to tramway situation anyway.

serfboard · 15-10-2020 1:35pm

McGiver wrote: »

The "won't be provided" is probably a realistic opinion, but campaigning could (and I believe would) change it.

No point campaigning for something that you know won't be delivered (at least in the short to medium term) - you let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Better (if what you are interested in is public transport, and not simply trains) to campaign for a (in your opionion) sub-optimal solution now, in the hope of an optimal one later.

McGiver wrote: »

Also, tram track goes in the middle of the avenue, not on the sides, which will be situation of these quasi-BRT arrangements in Galway (if it actually happens). So you're down to major rehaul from BRT-like situation to tramway situation anyway.

The question I have asked "Gluas" advocates on this forum several times, but have not received an answer, is where in Galway city are these tram lines going to go? As in where specifically?

Because once we have decided to cordon off sections of existing road for public transport (which is what trams are), why not use those sections for buses (which are also public transport) now? The most politically courageous decision that the council will have to make is what sections of existing street we are going to reserve for public transport.

If you want to campaign for anything, campaign for that decision to be made - and sooner rather than later.

26-10-2020 5:48pm

Next part of this has been released for non-statutory consultation

Consultation commences on the 22nd of October 2020, and will run for a minimum period of 6 weeks.

The Cross City Link

Galway City Council info - https://www.galwaycity.ie/busconnects-galway-cross-city-link

Virtual Portal - https://virtualengage.arup.com/busconnects-galway-cross-city-link/index.html

Have to be honest, there's a lot I don't like in this

1. Its not 24hr, only 7am to 7pm.
2. There's virtually nothing in terms of protected cycling infrastructure
3. It keeps a farcical amount of onstreet parking
4. A lot of junctions still prioritise motor traffic when the only traffic will be buses & taxis

About the only good elements in this are

1. Bus gate on College Rd
2. It clarifies that the protected cycling infrastructure on the Dublin rd continues further than I originally through
3. It shows this protection continues towards Lough Atalia rd but that is only for about 100 meters at which point it ends by dumping cyclists right out in front of motor traffic

cgcsb · 26-10-2020 5:56pm

It's unambitious alright. I expected as much given unambiguous CMATS was, using 1970s thinking.

Pete_Cavan · 26-10-2020 8:04pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

About the only good elements in this are

1. Bus gate on College Rd

Is this likely to be effective enough to allow a significant number of buses into/out of the city at peak times? Before they released these plans, I assumed that LAR (inbound) and College Road (outbound) would be made one way with a general traffic and bus lane on each (and ideally a cycle lane if space allowed). I think this would be a better solution and would benefit national and regional buses as well as city buses.

26-10-2020 10:18pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Is this likely to be effective enough to allow a significant number of buses into/out of the city at peak times? Before they released these plans, I assumed that LAR (inbound) and College Road (outbound) would be made one way with a general traffic and bus lane on each (and ideally a cycle lane if space allowed). I think this would be a better solution and would benefit national and regional buses as well as city buses.

As far as I can tell, College road will be the route for all buses, local, national, public & private.

what_traffic · 27-10-2020 7:01pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKSCi1Z9R1g&feature=youtu.be

Pete_Cavan · 27-10-2020 9:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As far as I can tell, College road will be the route for all buses, local, national, public & private.

If that is the case, I dont think a single lane bus gate will cut it. In the morning and evening peaks, you are going to have significant numbers of buses in both directions (local plus some regional buses in, national and some regional buses out) and the bus gate will likely be a bottleneck limiting both. I dont think it will deliver the kind of benefits public transport needs to see a significant modal shift or justify the cost of this project. Like I said, continuous bus lanes can be provided in both directions by using both College Road and LAR. Not sure what locals think but I would have thought that was potentially less controversial than the current proposal.

Galway - BusConnects

Comments