Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

Wolf359f · 10-10-2020 12:51AM

manofwisdom wrote: »

On hospitals the question was why they emptied so quickly in March. To make room in the weeks ahead simliar cancellations will have to be repeated it seems.

In July we had i think 67 weekly cases then after that cases started to rise once more and by the end of August we had close to 1000 weekly cases. From that rise we now find ourselves with simliar weekly reported caseloads as April.

There's a massive difference between now and march.
We had 4x the positivity rate back in March and the case definition on tests was skewed to initially, certain symptoms and linked to travel from certain key countries. Now, pretty much anyone can get a test (within reason)

Dublin hospital patients with Covid is beginning to slow and hopefully will reduce. To just throw in the towel and cancel all elective surgery is the wrong action. I'm hoping the rest of the country will follow suit.

Going by you, why not go back to July and cancel all hospital apointments? Or better yet, never open back up.
It's all risk analysis, risks to hospitals being over run, risk to long term damage from lack of elective surgery, risk to the economy (which pays for our healthcare)
We were the slowest to open back up in Europe and we never even fully opened back before backtracking. I really hope that helps us (I'm aware our healthcare capacity isn't as good as the rest of Europe)

Wolf359f · 10-10-2020 12:57AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not going to be a few months, certainly years before we know the long term effects so the majority of people are satisfied it's safe to take a vaccine.
It's one thing testing a vaccine on 30,000 volunteers, rolling it out from multiple manufacturers for 7.7 Billion people is whole different ball game. Covid will be here for a long time, normal life needs to resume for the people that want it to as soon as possible.

On people not taking the vaccine, that's their choice, it certainty won't be mandatory in Ireland or most/if not all countries.
The issue arises when they want to travel abroad and they are refused entry as they haven't been vaccinated.
This won't be new precedence, there;s plenty of 'travel vaccines':
Cholera, Diphtheria, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Japanese Encephalitis, Meningitis ACW and Y,Polio,Rabies,Tetanus,Tick Borne Encephalitis,Typhoid

JP Liz V1 · 10-10-2020 01:03AM

Is there outbreaks of MRSA as well as Covid in some Irish hospitals?

drunkmonkey · 10-10-2020 01:11AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

On people not taking the vaccine, that's their choice, it certainty won't be mandatory in Ireland or most/if not all countries.
The issue arises when they want to travel abroad and they are refused entry as they haven't been vaccinated.
This won't be new precedence, there;s plenty of 'travel vaccines':
Cholera, Diphtheria, Hepatitis A, Hepatitis B, Japanese Encephalitis, Meningitis ACW and Y,Polio,Rabies,Tetanus,Tick Borne Encephalitis,Typhoid

Can't see it being mandatory to travel around Europe or a lot of other countries. Some of those you mentioned last for a very long time, I don't think anyone is expecting that a couple of shots will give you a 10/20yr protection from this.

Itssoeasy · 10-10-2020 01:15AM

Btw whether you’re a fan of Catriona Perry or not the fact RTE sent her to Derry which is like going to the Chernobyl power plant in 1986 at the moment was a shocking thing to do to her. I assume she will have to isolate for two weeks after this ? Tommy o Gorman and Vincent Kearney are being paid to cover the north so why couldn’t they have gone to Derry instead ?

And btw while next weeks cases are seeded the cold temperatures tonight in cork might stop people leaving their homes. It’s very cold in cork tonight.

ceadaoin. · 10-10-2020 01:16AM

even amongst the most vulnerable, such as the elderly, there is still more of a chance that they will survive than not. Don't know why people insist on pretending this virus is a death sentence for literally everyone who gets infected. Its far from it.

drunkmonkey · 10-10-2020 01:16AM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Is there outbreaks of MRSA as well as Covid in some Irish hospitals?

Superbug CPE running wild in hospitals currently, you'd probably prefer to get Covid.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/cpe-superbug-being-detected-at-record-levels-says-hse-1.4368298

Wolf359f · 10-10-2020 01:20AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Can't see it being mandatory to travel around Europe or a lot of other countries. Some of those you mentioned last for a very long time, I don't think anyone is expecting that a couple of shots will give you a 10/20yr protection from this.

People do travel outside of Europe and a European country is well within it's rights to refuse entry if you haven't been vaccinated (very slim chance as their citizens should have achieved herd immunity by taking the vaccine).
We don't know the long term immunity from Covid with vaccines.
But those thinking they will never ever take it, may have to rethink that, or with a mass roll out it may fade away with random outbreaks here and there etc...

Wolf359f · 10-10-2020 01:24AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Superbug CPE running wild in hospitals currently, you'd probably prefer to get Covid.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/cpe-superbug-being-detected-at-record-levels-says-hse-1.4368298

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/antibiotic-resistant-superbugs-pose-existential-risk-to-irish-health-service-1.3985293

So weird, I googled MRSA and got no results, I googled CPE and the only results I got was the Irish Times. Then I click the link and....

So far this year, 434 patients have been diagnosed with CPE, compared to 452 in the corresponding period in 2019

434 is less than 452 right?
You also link a 1 year old article.

440Hertz · 10-10-2020 01:31AM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Only 2 in Mater ICU with covid, and 1 in Vincent's. So, not really a Covid issue, it just exposes that we don't have enough ICU beds. Agree re Cork. Awful pity that NPHET didn't recommend level 3 for whole country early last week, would have made a huge difference. I think the system will be under very severe pressure outside Dublin.

The issue is there simply aren’t enough ICU beds or even general beds in Cork. It’s already at its limits without COVID pressure. Successive governments have underfunded or under resourced frontline healthcare.

There are a few more ICU beds in the private sector - 9 in the Bons (afaik) and I assume there must be a couple in the Mater Private in Cork, but it’s dangerously under resourced.

If this winter teaches us anything, it will be that healthcare is infrastructure. If we’re flattened by this, it’s because successive administrations here were not held to account on healthcare. It’s been an unmitigated disaster for years.

I remember being utterly embarrassed at the experience a friend of mine experienced as a teen here 16+ years ago. German and had pneumonia and they couldn’t even get her a bed in the Mercy in Cork. She was on a chair for two days.

What’s changed in those years?

The stories of horrors in A&E, insane waiting lists, lack of access etc etc go on and on. Type any of the acute hospitals’ names into Google and look at the reviews and you’ll see them peppered with genuinely terrible experiences of both Irish residents and tourists shocked at the overcrowding and overstretched A&Es.

We threw vast amounts of money down a hole designing and redesigning a gold plated, grossly over priced children’s hospital, while we continued to run acute hospitals on a shoestring.

It’s not good enough and I don’t know why we’ve passively let this happen.

People will likely die this winter because of the lack of health infrastructure. It will damage our economy because we will not be able to rely on it and it may well (and deservedly) undermine our position as a place to locate banks and tech sector industries.

The state of our health system is an embarrassment. It really is shameful that it’s coming to this. It’s just inexcusable.

2ndcoming · 10-10-2020 01:43AM

440Hertz wrote: »

The issue is there simply aren’t enough ICU beds or even general beds in Cork. It’s already at its limits without COVID pressure. Successive governments have underfunded or under resourced frontline healthcare.

There are a few more ICU beds in the private sector - 9 in the Bons (afaik) and I assume there must be a couple in the Mater Private in Cork, but it’s dangerously under resourced.

If this winter teaches us anything, it will be that healthcare is infrastructure. If we’re flattened by this, it’s because successive administrations here were not held to account on healthcare. It’s been an unmitigated disaster for years.

I remember being utterly embarrassed at the experience a friend of mine experienced as a teen here 16+ years ago. German and had pneumonia and they couldn’t even get her a bed in the Mercy in Cork. She was on a chair for two days.

What’s changed in those years?

We threw vast amounts of money down a hole designing and redesigning a gold plated, grossly over priced children’s hospital, while we continued to run acute hospitals on a shoestring.

It’s not good enough and I don’t know why we’ve passively let this happen.

People will likely die this winter because of the lack of health infrastructure. It will damage our economy because we will not be able to rely on it and it may well (and deservedly) undermine our position as a place to locate banks and tech sector industries.

The state of our health system is an embarrassment. It really is shameful that it’s coming to this. It’s just inexcusable.

Irish administrations are never held to account on anything. And the media will hold up the conservative parties and vilify or mock literally all alternatives daily so we never do.

Wolf359f · 10-10-2020 01:43AM

440Hertz wrote: »

The issue is there simply aren’t enough ICU beds or even general beds in Cork. Successive governments have underfunded or under resourced frontline healthcare.

There are a few more ICU beds in the private sector - 9 in the Bons and I assume there must be a couple in the Mater Private in Cork, but it’s dangerously under resourced.

If this winter teaches us anything, it will be that healthcare is infrastructure. If we’re flattened by this, it’s because successive administrations here were not held to account on healthcare. It’s been an unmitigated disaster for years.

I remember being utterly embarrassed at the experience a friend of mine experienced as a teen here 16+ years ago. German and had pneumonia and they couldn’t even get her a bed in the Mercy in Cork. She was on a chair for two days.

What’s changed in those years?

We threw vast amounts of money down a hole designing and redesigning a gold plated, grossly over priced children’s hospital, while we continued to run acute hospitals on a shoestring.

It’s not good enough and I don’t know why we’ve passively let this happen.

People will likely die this winter because of the lack of health infrastructure. It will damage our economy because we will not be able to rely on it and it may well (and deservedly) undermine our position as a place to locate banks and tech sector industries.

The state of our health system is an embarrassment. It really is shameful that it’s coming to this. It’s just inexcusable.

Have to agree with everything you say.

We plan to build the most expensive children's hospital in the world... if it was run the best as the best world and made us proud to pay for it, there's no problem.
The issue is, it will be run, just like most, with massive waste at the top of the food chain.

I'd love to see a discussion on funding and more importantly running our healthcare system in the future.
Government ploughs excess money into it for diminishing returns.
Maybe this is the health crisis which will be the earthquake we need to change it. I'm certainly not blaming all the healthcare workers, I'm blaming management up to government.

10-10-2020 01:50AM

niallo27 wrote: »

62% of the deaths are in nursing homes, do you know the length people live past once they enter a nursing home. I think its less than 2 years. I know quoting these figures shows a lack of empathy but sometimes you have to just look at the statistics around it.

Utter tosh.

My grandmother lived in a nursing home for 7 years before dying at the age of 97. (Its actually her birthday today she would have been 112).

My mother was in her nursing home for almost 4 years and was in very good physical health. Only for Covid19, have no reason to believe she wouldn't still be alive today.

440Hertz · 10-10-2020 01:59AM

2ndcoming wrote: »

Irish administrations are never held to account on anything. And the media will hold up the conservative parties and vilify or mock literally all alternatives daily so we never do.

I just think with health, we’ve become so beaten down by the system being so bad that we just accept what should be utterly unacceptable.

This should be the number 1 issue for every political party, yet they are more focused on pretty much anything else. Even the ministers who have tried to drive change typically are chewed up and destroyed by the system, and that goes way back even as far as the 1940.

At this stage, I would bring in external expertise from outside the bubble, as I don’t think we are even able to see the problems.

We can’t keep using the “but we were starting from a poor base” excuse forever. We’ve had lots of time with lots of money and unless we are doing something very odd with what we are classifying as health expenditure, we’re appear to be spending rather a lot per capita and getting unacceptable results.

Frankly, I think Ireland can’t reform its own health system as all of those who try are too embedded in it to have any perspective.

We can’t go on like this though. It’s not fair on anyone and it’s terrible for the country both socially and economically.

Itssoeasy · 10-10-2020 02:04AM

440Hertz wrote: »

The issue is there simply aren’t enough ICU beds or even general beds in Cork. It’s already at its limits without COVID pressure. Successive governments have underfunded or under resourced frontline healthcare.

There are a few more ICU beds in the private sector - 9 in the Bons (afaik) and I assume there must be a couple in the Mater Private in Cork, but it’s dangerously under resourced.

If this winter teaches us anything, it will be that healthcare is infrastructure. If we’re flattened by this, it’s because successive administrations here were not held to account on healthcare. It’s been an unmitigated disaster for years.

I remember being utterly embarrassed at the experience a friend of mine experienced as a teen here 16+ years ago. German and had pneumonia and they couldn’t even get her a bed in the Mercy in Cork. She was on a chair for two days.

What’s changed in those years?

The stories of horrors in A&E, insane waiting lists, lack of access etc etc go on and on. Type any of the acute hospitals’ names into Google and look at the reviews and you’ll see them peppered with genuinely terrible experiences of both Irish residents and tourists shocked at the overcrowding and overstretched A&Es.

We threw vast amounts of money down a hole designing and redesigning a gold plated, grossly over priced children’s hospital, while we continued to run acute hospitals on a shoestring.

It’s not good enough and I don’t know why we’ve passively let this happen.

People will likely die this winter because of the lack of health infrastructure. It will damage our economy because we will not be able to rely on it and it may well (and deservedly) undermine our position as a place to locate banks and tech sector industries.

The state of our health system is an embarrassment. It really is shameful that it’s coming to this. It’s just inexcusable.

You assume wrong. The Mater listed is in Dublin not cork. Yes the mater in cork has HDU beds they don’t have an ICU.

440Hertz · 10-10-2020 02:05AM

Itssoeasy wrote: »

You assume wrong. The Mater listed is in Dublin not cork.

I wasn’t looking at which one was listed. I’m just saying there may be some beds there that could be negotiated. The Bons was the only one listed in the table.

All I know is it’s a great place to life but just try not to get sick!

manofwisdom · 10-10-2020 02:10AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

There's a massive difference between now and march.
We had 4x the positivity rate back in March and the case definition on tests was skewed to initially, certain symptoms and linked to travel from certain key countries. Now, pretty much anyone can get a test (within reason)

Dublin hospital patients with Covid is beginning to slow and hopefully will reduce. To just throw in the towel and cancel all elective surgery is the wrong action. I'm hoping the rest of the country will follow suit.

Going by you, why not go back to July and cancel all hospital apointments? Or better yet, never open back up.
It's all risk analysis, risks to hospitals being over run, risk to long term damage from lack of elective surgery, risk to the economy (which pays for our healthcare)
We were the slowest to open back up in Europe and we never even fully opened back before backtracking. I really hope that helps us (I'm aware our healthcare capacity isn't as good as the rest of Europe)

Going by you? You seem to be off track there wolf.

These two comments I was questioning

"We're only starting this 2nd wave as such"

"first wave we practically emptied hospitals, this wave we can't do that again"

I'm well aware about the difference between then and now and it's also worth pointing out loads of asymptomatic cases are picked up now plus our positivity rate in recent weeks includes plenty of retests.

Wolf359f · 10-10-2020 02:29AM

manofwisdom wrote: »

Going by you? You seem to be off track there wolf.

These two comments I was questioning

"We're only starting this 2nd wave as such"

"first wave we practically emptied hospitals, this wave we can't do that again"

I'm well aware about the difference between then and now and it's also worth pointing out loads of asymptomatic cases are picked up now plus our positivity rate in recent weeks includes plenty of retests.

So you're questioning if we're in a 2nd wave or not?
You're questioning the fact we emptied out hospitals back in March and to do that again will cause massive repercussions?

Asymptomatic is different than pre-symptomatic.
All symptomatic people were asymptomatic for a period.
On the retests....
March-July 11th: Approx 28772 positive tests resulted in 25780 positive people (~10% retests)
July 12th - Oct 9th: Approx 16218 positive tests resulted in 14923 positive people (~8% retests - Which includes the infamous backlog)
Retests seems the same now as before ~9%

Itssoeasy · 10-10-2020 02:29AM

Just before I log off for tonight and mostly the weekend can I ask that outside of posting daily cases can we as a county just take a weekend off. I don’t in any way doubt anybody here’s intentions but given what may be coming at us can we just socially distance ?

JP Liz V1 · 10-10-2020 03:13AM

Is the quick go ups make shift hospitals in Limerick, Kildare and Dublin gone and also step down hotel in Dublin?

Minnie Snuggles · 10-10-2020 03:24AM

As of the 4th September up to one quarter of people contacted as close contacts of an infected person, were not turning up for tests. Does anyone know what the position is now with regard to this?

From what I see locally, it would seem to me, the major problems are
1. People not isolating while waiting for a test.
2. People not isolating when testing positive.
3. People not turning up for tests when they have been identified as close contacts.

Russman · 10-10-2020 05:17AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

It's not going to be a few months, certainly years before we know the long term effects so the majority of people are satisfied it's safe to take a vaccine.
It's one thing testing a vaccine on 30,000 volunteers, rolling it out from multiple manufacturers for 7.7 Billion people is whole different ball game. Covid will be here for a long time, normal life needs to resume for the people that want it to as soon as possible.

Normal life isn’t resuming any time soon, if ever.

Plumbthedepths · 10-10-2020 06:41AM

Russman wrote: »

Normal life isn’t resuming any time soon, if ever.

I'm sure people had the same thoughts after the Bubonic plague, Spanish flu. This too will pass.

Kermit.de.frog · 10-10-2020 06:55AM

https://twitter.com/ProjectLincoln/status/1314297485318217728

patnor1011 · 10-10-2020 07:12AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

People do travel outside of Europe and a European country is well within it's rights to refuse entry if you haven't been vaccinated (very slim chance as their citizens should have achieved herd immunity by taking the vaccine).
We don't know the long term immunity from Covid with vaccines.
But those thinking they will never ever take it, may have to rethink that, or with a mass roll out it may fade away with random outbreaks here and there etc...

You may want to read a bit more about current covid vaccines. None of them is going to give you immunity. They are designed and developed to soften infection and lessen possible complications but they will not make you immune.

mr_edge_to_you · 10-10-2020 07:28AM

Minnie Snuggles wrote: »

As of the 4th September up to one quarter of people contacted as close contacts of an infected person, were not turning up for tests. Does anyone know what the position is now with regard to this?

The week after those details came to light, a family we know were trying to get a test after being deemed a close contact of a case. They had awful trouble trying to book the test and after numerous calls over a 36hour period and eventually confirming a slot, the girl was given out to for having missed two previous slots but she was never actually contacted. While some people may not be turning up, I suspect there's also some admin issues.

xhomelezz · 10-10-2020 07:57AM

Minnie Snuggles wrote: »

As of the 4th September up to one quarter of people contacted as close contacts of an infected person, were not turning up for tests. Does anyone know what the position is now with regard to this?

From what I see locally, it would seem to me, the major problems are
1. People not isolating while waiting for a test.
2. People not isolating when testing positive.
3. People not turning up for tests when they have been identified as close contacts.

I can't understand, how that is allowed to happen. How does it come there's no follow up, especially people not turning for the test. Should be pretty easy to keep controling it.

PowerToWait · 10-10-2020 08:08AM

Minnie Snuggles wrote: »

As of the 4th September up to one quarter of people contacted as close contacts of an infected person, were not turning up for tests. Does anyone know what the position is now with regard to this?

From what I see locally, it would seem to me, the major problems are
1. People not isolating while waiting for a test.
2. People not isolating when testing positive.
3. People not turning up for tests when they have been identified as close contacts.

I’ve seen the same in my area. Probably the same up and down the country. People won’t lose the time off work. That’s why they want level 5. Figures will be huge in 2 weeks.

Stormyteacup · 10-10-2020 08:26AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Utter tosh.

My grandmother lived in a nursing home for 7 years before dying at the age of 97. (Its actually her birthday today she would have been 112).

My mother was in her nursing home for almost 4 years and was in very good physical health. Only for Covid19, have no reason to believe she wouldn't still be alive today.

Average age time spent in nursing homes, not differentiating between private and public, is 30 months.

Some will be there much longer, some much shorter, but that’s the average.

And your time left to live in a nursing home is almost halved compared to living in general population.

In fact as a country we are really quite poor at looking after our older population in general. We are all coasting along with this for too long and have been conditioned to accept current model.

All of us are responsible for it, and it’s hypocritical to be calling out others for pointing out facts that are unpalatable.

https://tilda.tcd.ie/publications/reports/pdf/Report_EndofLife.pdf

niallo27 · 10-10-2020 08:29AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Utter tosh.

My grandmother lived in a nursing home for 7 years before dying at the age of 97. (Its actually her birthday today she would have been 112).

My mother was in her nursing home for almost 4 years and was in very good physical health. Only for Covid19, have no reason to believe she wouldn't still be alive today.

So do you have the figures or just basing it on your own personal experience. Its actually 1.9 years, probably much lower by now.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/health/fewer-older-people-opt-for-nursing-home-care-37534589.html

Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

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