Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

Widdensushi · 08-10-2020 12:28AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

We wouldn't have any deaths recorded based on what you are assuming I meant.

If the person dies from covid complications (respiratory failure etc...), they would be recorded. If the person had covid and died of another illness/accident, they wouldn't be recorded as a covid death.

Thanks, I honestly thought a positive covid test meant a covid death, maybe that explains the denotifications which I couldn't understand.

Hulk Hands · 08-10-2020 12:31AM

quokula wrote: »

Because the vast vast majority of experts agree with the overwhelming weight of evidence. You’ll always be able to find one or two people with good qualifications who are willing to spout nonsense to get themselves noticed / sell their book or whatever.

The vast vast majority of experts all over Europe think that despite higher case numbers, masks & social distancing are largely sufficient with a semi open economy. We alone in Ireland seem to think that everyone else is wrong and that we're right with the harshest lockdowns, with many including NPHET asking for more.

Don't be giving that guff about 'the majority of experts'. We're the country that's gone off script

Wolf359f · 08-10-2020 12:34AM

Widdensushi wrote: »

Thanks, I honestly thought a positive covid test meant a covid death, maybe that explains the denotifications which I couldn't understand.

We announced all deaths confirmed, probable and suspected. The denotifications would be duplicates or possibly a test postmortem coming back negative or an autopsy/further examination finding a different cause of death.

Sconsey · 08-10-2020 12:41AM

Hulk Hands wrote: »

The vast vast majority of experts all over Europe think that despite higher case numbers, masks & social distancing are largely sufficient with a semi open economy. We alone in Ireland seem to think that everyone else is wrong and that we're right with the harshest lockdowns, with many including NPHET asking for more.

Don't be giving that guff about 'the majority of experts'. We're the country that's gone off script

What planet are you on? there are various levels of lockdown all over Europe right now. And you give out about others guff:rolleyes:

Hulk Hands · 08-10-2020 12:47AM

Sconsey wrote: »

What planet are you on? there are various levels of lockdown all over Europe right now. And you give out about others guff:rolleyes:

We have the harshest lockdown in Europe, are you disputing that? And the majority aren't even complaining much about that, most of the country is actually ok with it despite being the harshest with average case numbers. It's the crackpots that think we alone should be the only country in Europe to go ahead with total lockdown (level 5) that's the issue for most.

Roger_007 · 08-10-2020 12:50AM

quokula wrote: »

Because the vast vast majority of experts agree with the overwhelming weight of evidence. You’ll always be able to find one or two people with good qualifications who are willing to spout nonsense to get themselves noticed / sell their book or whatever.

Albert Einstein once said that just because the majority of scientists at that time were very sceptical of his theory of relativity didn’t mean that it was wrong.
A majority view is not always the correct view. There was once a majority view that the earth was the centre of the universe.

Asylum15 · 08-10-2020 12:53AM

Deleted User wrote: »

People need to stop thinking that this virus is spreading just because somebody had a house party, or a sandwich with their ma, or went to a GAA match.

It’s spreading because it’s a f*cking virus and it’s going to spread unless you completely close society down and keep it closed. Which of course is not sustainable.

The great news is that the virus is extremely mild. Unless you are over 80 and in extremely bad health, you will likely be fine.

Unfortunately the fallout from Covid will be much worse. That won’t only impact 1%. It will likely impact us all.

Huge hospital waiting lists, huge backlogs for cancer screening, huge levels of unemployment, increase in suicide, poverty, homelessness. Increases in crime and anti social behavior. Spending cuts. Housing crisis worsening.

If the government started to paint the full picture, I think a lot more people might change their minds on Covid.

What we should be doing is looking to get as much ICU capacity as we can so we can live with it.

As a person working in the medical industry with close ties to researchers studying this virus and it's potential LONG TERM effects on people, a post like this makes me rage. Maybe you're idiocy will be revealed to you more clearly when this virus and the damage it's caused is not simply a matter of 'old people are the only ones at risk' and the rest of us are grand. Once we understand the long term effects, you'll see why this attitude is toxic.

I'm not for Level 5 but posts like this man....

Kermit.de.frog · 08-10-2020 12:55AM

Bloomberg reporting that the head of White House security is gravely ill with Coronavirus.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-10-07/white-house-security-official-contracted-covid-19-in-september

Paddygreen · 08-10-2020 01:00AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1vDzftb0wA

mandrake04 · 08-10-2020 01:07AM

Asylum15 wrote: »

As a person working in the medical industry with close ties to researchers studying this virus and it's potential LONG TERM effects on people, a post like this makes me rage. Maybe you're idiocy will be revealed to you more clearly when this virus and the damage it's caused is not simply a matter of 'old people are the only ones at risk' and the rest of us are grand. Once we understand the long term effects, you'll see why this attitude is toxic.

I'm not for Level 5 but posts like this man....

I agree, lockdowns and tough restrictions are not good and no one really wants that. But I think most rational people would use caution as the long term effects are not fully understood, sure it kills old people in the short term but if some people go on to develop long Covid it’s an ongoing cost to society... taxes will be increased and health system under further strain.

CBear1993 · 08-10-2020 01:12AM

Asylum15 wrote: »

As a person working in the medical industry with close ties to researchers studying this virus and it's potential LONG TERM effects on people, a post like this makes me rage. Maybe you're idiocy will be revealed to you more clearly when this virus and the damage it's caused is not simply a matter of 'old people are the only ones at risk' and the rest of us are grand. Once we understand the long term effects, you'll see why this attitude is toxic.

I'm not for Level 5 but posts like this man....

We can’t wait around to learn the long term effects either to be fair. That could be years away. So you’re essentially asking people to put their lives on hold while the hard working medical research teams come up with solid breakthrough evidence...

CBear1993 · 08-10-2020 01:14AM

Walk out on to the street and ask the first 10 people you see who live here in Ireland who they know , that has died from COVID-19. They’ll know people who have had it surely, but I guarantee you you’ll get a very small amount knowing anyone who has died, maybe even 0/10. It’s the same across the country.

bb1234567 · 08-10-2020 01:17AM

CBear1993 wrote: »

Walk out on to the street and ask the first 10 people you see who live here in Ireland who they know , that has died from COVID-19. They’ll know people who have had it surely, but I guarantee you you’ll get a very small amount knowing anyone who has died, maybe even 0/10. It’s the same across the country.

That wouldn't be surprising, deaths are only 350 per million, and many of them are nursing home residents with limited social circles. I don't think you'd find it common to hear of people knowing somebody who had died of it until deaths were 0.1-.2%+ of the population.

Apparently roughly 50% of people in NYC know somebody who died of COVID. Deaths there are 0.3% of the city, and unlike most western countries only 20% of the deaths in new york were from nursing homes

CBear1993 · 08-10-2020 01:19AM

bb1234567 wrote: »

That wouldn't be surprising, deaths are only 350 per million, and many of them are nursing home residents with limited social circles. I don't think you'd find it common to hear of people knowing somebody who had died of it until deaths were 0.1%+ of the population

Why are they looking to send us into level 5 then? Big tony the hero coming back out of nowhere to bang his fist on the table.

Asylum15 · 08-10-2020 01:20AM

CBear1993 wrote: »

We can’t wait around to learn the long term effects either to be fair. That could be years away. So you’re essentially asking people to put their lives on hold while the hard working medical research teams come up with solid breakthrough evidence...

I didn't say what my personal stance on lockdown etc was in my post. I merely noted the previous poster's attitude of ''just get on with it, old people are the only ones will be a worry, be grand'' was toxic.

I'm no fan of how our government has handled this whole scenario at all, that's coming from a person in the medical industry. I've said this in this thread before. However, while we may not ''know people who've died'' if we ask randomers in Ireland, I can say personally I know 4-5 people who got it around the country and STILL live with daily symptoms. One of whom has developed fatigue at CFS levels. This person is under 30, was a track athlete and got Covid 4-5 months ago in the peak. Alot of people seem to speak on the virus from a position of invincibility but many would be surprised how lingering/serious it can be for the most healthy of us.

You more than likely won't die, no. But your quality of life can be thrown up in the air big time.

Just 2 cents.

CBear1993 · 08-10-2020 01:24AM

Rare virus’ like that happen unfortunately. I had a good friend who was a county GAA player and cross country runner before hand, fit as a fiddle.

Was struck down after feeling unwell one evening after training and hospitalized. Meningitis or something similar attacked his brain.

In those times it wasn’t put down to Covid 19 though. As sad as it is to say that, it is happening. Ask the right nurse .

quokula · 08-10-2020 01:24AM

CBear1993 wrote: »

Why are they looking to send us into level 5 then? Big tony the hero coming back out of nowhere to bang his fist on the table.

Because of the second paragraph you didn’t bother quoting, showing an example of what happens when you don’t lockdown quickly enough. Ireland followed NPHETs advice in the first wave, and came out in ok shape while other countries were digging mass graves. I hope we don’t regret not following their advice this time.

JP Liz V1 · 08-10-2020 01:25AM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Serious question, Is the Dáil bar now closed and if open only allowed serve food to 15 outdoor?

Maybe Zara will ask at next briefing

Asylum15 · 08-10-2020 01:25AM

CBear1993 wrote: »

Rare virus’ like that happen unfortunately. I had a good friend who was a county GAA player and cross country runner before hand, fit as a fiddle.

Was struck down after feeling unwell one evening after training and hospitalized. Meningitis or something similar attacked his brain.

In those times it wasn’t put down to Covid 19 though. As sad as it is to say that, it is happening. Ask the right nurse .

Agree with what you're saying.

However, meningitis (in the main) is well understood both short/long term.

See my point?

CBear1993 · 08-10-2020 01:29AM

quokula wrote: »

Because of the second paragraph you didn’t bother quoting, showing an example of what happens when you don’t lockdown quickly enough. Ireland followed NPHETs advice in the first wave, and came out in ok shape while other countries were digging mass graves. I hope we don’t regret not following their advice this time.

In rural Ireland all summer people were drinking away in pubs, having back garden barbecues, christenings, birthdays in marquees, weddings, GAA matches were attended, albeit not at usual numbers but still fairly big.

Correct me if I’m wrong but it’s now effectively three months on from June / July and I don’t see any mass graves being dug.

Why would we go back to level 5 when the daily deaths aren’t even near what we had in the worst days earlier in the pandemic?

Throw a little chaos into the media and everyone loses their mind. Hundreds of cases per day. Not good but life goes on. Like it did in March and April and may.

I’ll tell you what wasn’t reported though, in the month of august or July (can’t remember which) there were close to 20 deaths by suicide in Galway.
Where is the media coverage of that!

quokula · 08-10-2020 01:29AM

“It’s only like meningitis” is a change from “it’s only like the flu”

Not sure many people would feel too good about catching meningitis.

CBear1993 · 08-10-2020 01:29AM

Asylum15 wrote: »

Agree with what you're saying.

However, meningitis (in the main) is well understood both short/long term.

See my point?

Fair enough. Agreed

bb1234567 · 08-10-2020 01:33AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/1007/1170060-daily-virus-figures/

Interestingly only 9.5% of cases reported in the last two weeks have been over 65. Despite over 65 population making up 14% of the population. This cocooning is probably resulting in a much much lower death rate that would be occurring usually right now with this level of cases if spread evenly across age groups. 50% less over 65's getting the virus means death rates should really be cut in half, even if cases keep growing if cocooning is maintained we will very likely not see anymore than half of the number of deaths we saw in the first wave

JP Liz V1 · 08-10-2020 01:36AM

https://twitter.com/McDonnellDan/status/1313878879606657027

quokula · 08-10-2020 01:38AM

CBear1993 wrote: »

In rural Ireland all summer people were drinking away in pubs, having back garden barbecues, christenings, birthdays in marquees, weddings, GAA matches were attended, albeit not at usual numbers but still fairly big.

Correct me if I’m wrong but it’s now effectively three months on from June / July and I don’t see any mass graves being dug.

Why would we go back to level 5 when the daily deaths aren’t even near what we had in the worst days earlier in the pandemic?

Throw a little chaos into the media and everyone loses their mind. Hundreds of cases per day. Not good but life goes on. Like it did in March and April and may.

I’ll tell you what wasn’t reported though, in the month of august or July (can’t remember which) there were close to 20 deaths by suicide in Galway.
Where is the media coverage of that!

That suicide statistic that was going around social media has been completely debunked as it’s just plain made up.

As for the rest of your point - we were able to live relatively normally in summer thanks to the lockdown beforehand that got the level of infection down to extremely low levels. 1 becomes 2 becomes 4 becomes 8 etc which isn’t a big deal for a while, but eventually 100 becomes 200 becomes 400 becomes 800. There is a very slow ramping up when you start at a low level of infection, but the nature of exponential growth is that once you do get to a critical mass it is then growing very very rapidly which is why it becomes so dangerous.

We had ample evidence of this all over the world in March. I can’t believe so many people want to sleepwalk into it happening again. I don’t believe zero COVID is possible, especially with the UK on our doorstep, but a short sharp lockdown could get us back to the minimal levels by Christmas and could see another few months of relative normality before it starts to creep up again, hopefully not before a vaccine or other mitigation measures become available.

CBear1993 · 08-10-2020 01:39AM

quokula wrote: »

“It’s only like meningitis” is a change from “it’s only like the flu”

Not sure many people would feel too good about catching meningitis.

You’d be safer picking your nose than picking out selective parts of what I’m saying to suit what you want to get across. We’ll agree to disagree.

We weren’t testing That much during summer and dropped the ball Because we didn’t give a hoot. Now they’re testing again and wonder why there are more cases.

It’s like everything in this country, the government don’t do anything and take it out on us, the people. The amount of politicians who have and are flouting the very rules they set has been endless. Do you think Mícheál Martin sat at home at the weekend and didn’t attend his very own Nemo Rangers match? Ha...

They’ve had since March now to sort out the testing, get something in place at the airports. Not as much as a temperature scanner has been installed at DAA.

I , along with others, will not sit at home for the next 3 weeks (minimum) and stay inside the county “like a good little citizen” whenever people from all over the world can come and go as they please here. My partners friend has her boyfriend coming over from the states in 2 weeks for a trip, not a bother to him. Yet she can’t get over there to see him.

And you mean to tell me I cant go to another county to visit the parents? The contradiction of the rules is just endless

CBear1993 · 08-10-2020 01:44AM

quokula wrote: »

That suicide statistic that was going around social media has been completely debunked as it’s just plain made up.

As for the rest of your point - we were able to live relatively normally in summer thanks to the lockdown beforehand that got the level of infection down to extremely low levels. 1 becomes 2 becomes 4 becomes 8 etc which isn’t a big deal for a while, but eventually 100 becomes 200 becomes 400 becomes 800. There is a very slow ramping up when you start at a low level of infection, but the nature of exponential growth is that once you do get to a critical mass it is then growing very very rapidly which is why it becomes so dangerous.

We had ample evidence of this all over the world in March. I can’t believe so many people want to sleepwalk into it happening again. I don’t believe zero COVID is possible, especially with the UK on our doorstep, but a short sharp lockdown could get us back to the minimal levels by Christmas and could see another few months of relative normality before it starts to creep up again, hopefully not before a vaccine or other mitigation measures become available.

Your approach above (which I assume is the best plan A our medical “experts” and government/NPHET can come up with too) is to basically shut down the whole economy for a wee while, then open it up again and “let them have a bit of craic the poor buggers” while we sit on our big fat salaries sure who gives a toss.

It’s no better than “ah we’ll do this and it’ll be grand” to be honest. It might be all we have right now without a vaccine but it isn’t right either. I don’t have an alternative and I won’t pretend I do, but I would have to be completely honest and selfishly say I think I’d rather live like Sweden than the way we are operating at present.

Christmas won’t be worth one f*ck if we’re sitting staring at each other and the four walls in the depths of January blues. What sort of way is that to start the year for people? Let them have Christmas and it’ll be haywire then with partying, then put the whole thing down into level 5 in January to start the year off, lovely!

fritzelly · 08-10-2020 01:45AM

Can Boards not implement something like a Hot tag on posts to show the posts worth reading?

bb1234567 · 08-10-2020 01:45AM

Cbear there were absolutely massive numbers of tests done during the summer, hundreds of thousands, cases remainec extremely low , far more testing done during the summer than in March and April

CBear1993 · 08-10-2020 01:48AM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Cbear there were absolutely massive numbers of tests done during the summer, far more than in March and April

Again, if that’s all you can take from what I’ve said then I give up.

There isn’t much empathy shown on here. It’s either stats and figures or graphs, or else forget about it. No logic is taken into consideration across the board.

Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

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