Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

rovers_runner · 06-10-2020 03:34PM

Nothing but lies and BS since Sunday afternoon.

First the Govt leak NPHET letter to PA in order to advance their own agenda and get public onside.
Then HSE CEO lies that system isn't under pressure nor does he foresee it happening.
Testing and tracing system, less testing this week despite a significant growth in cases over the last 7 days.
CMO about to resign due to being undermined by Govt.

Eod100 · 06-10-2020 03:36PM

Goldrickssan wrote: »

He shouldn't comment on it tbh
They're giving medical advice, him getting into that could get political fast

He likely won't comment. Just mean he'll definitely be asked.

06-10-2020 03:36PM

froog wrote: »

we've "learned to live" with flu with an annual vaccine.

We learned to live with flu with acquired resistance to virulent strains and antibiotics to tackle secondary infections. Vaccines are a bonus, but we have been living with flu for a lot longer than vaccines have existed

Boggles · 06-10-2020 03:37PM

Goldrickssan wrote: »

He shouldn't comment on it tbh

I imagine Leo has all ready been asked to clarify his comments, if that is not forth coming I imagine there will be a reaction.

Essentially Leo questioned the professionalism and ability to do the job of NPHET as a whole.

40 odd Doctors, Scientists and Academics won't just swallow it and let it go I imagine.

Ficheall · 06-10-2020 03:37PM

seamus wrote: »

The WHO by and large take a strictly evidence-based approach. They don't say, "It's not airborne", they just say, "There is insufficient evidence to say that it is airborne".

This is why they weren't calling for panic in December, or calling it a pandemic in January.

Because it's correct to not jump to conclusions that are not supported by the data, and 99.99% of the time you will be justified.

Everyone once a while you have a situation where jumping to conclusions would have helped. Like this one. But that doesn't mean the WHO were wrong.

Any road, the point is that the WHO indicating a possible vaccine before year's end is a suggestion that there is a vaccine very close to being given the thumbs up for widespread use.

Right - my point was that if they were as cautious about a vaccine as they were about finally calling it a pandemic (mid-March - not just December or January, which would have been excusable), then they wouldn't be issuing vague promises about a vaccine without offering any substantiation.

"There might be a cure for HIV discovered on Friday, who knows?" vs. "We have good reason to believe the sun will rise tomorrow - here's why..."

lethalJB · 06-10-2020 03:38PM

Here is the NPHET letter on why they recommended level 5. Going by their letter, they do have a right to be as concerned as much as they are in my opinion.

FintanMcluskey · 06-10-2020 03:38PM

stargazer 68 wrote: »

They are offered it. They can refuse though. Not sure about those with diminished capacity though.

I wonder what is the uptake.

Staggeringly I see a survey that found just over half of all healthcare workers avail of the flu vaccine.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/influenzaandresidentsoflongtermcarefacilities/Seasonal%20Influenza%20Vaccine%20Uptake-2018-2019.pdf

Aprroving a vaccine for Covid will be one issue, getting relevant people to take it, especially health care workers is another

Eod100 · 06-10-2020 03:39PM

Boggles wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the end of the briefings.

An important quote from the public flogging last night.

They didn't advise the public though. The letter got leaked. Government side want to suggest it was NPHET who did that. Why would they? Likelier it came from government side.

Sconsey · 06-10-2020 03:39PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That's a massive statement by Tedros from the WHO on vaccines today. He must have seen some of the Oxford, Moderna or Pfizer data.

It's terrible news for the 'RTE thrive on fear-mongering' crowd...RTE giving so much space to a good news Covid story.

Eod100 · 06-10-2020 03:41PM

GooglePlus wrote: »

We might have vaccines ready for distribution this side of Christmas but I can't see the supply chain fully finding their feet until 2021, the task is astronomical. This has been acknowledged by supply chain specialists involved with the vaccine alliance.

I've seen speculation that it wouldn't be distributed to general population in significant numbers until September 2023

polesheep · 06-10-2020 03:41PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I wonder what is the uptake.

Staggeringly I see a survey that found just over half of all healthcare workers avail of the flu vaccine.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/influenzaandresidentsoflongtermcarefacilities/Seasonal%20Influenza%20Vaccine%20Uptake-2018-2019.pdf

Aprroving a vaccine for Covid will be one issue, getting relevant people to take it, especially health care workers is another

Anecdotally, I've been asking that question to the HCWs I know (there's quite a lot of them) and I get the impression that the initial uptake will be similar to the uptake for the flu. Rushed vaccine and Swine flu vaccine side-effects being the reasons for not availing of it.

caveat emptor · 06-10-2020 03:42PM

Staffing in hospitals an issue according to INMO. "Overall picture of our bed count is much worse than what's being portrayed"

https://twitter.com/PaulQuinnNews/status/1313468786910007296?s=20

shinzon · 06-10-2020 03:42PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

That's a massive statement by Tedros from the WHO on vaccines today. He must have seen some of the Oxford, Moderna or Pfizer data.

Until I see a Vial and a syringe been stuck in it I rarely if ever believe there will be a vaccine until the middle of 2021 and general population vaccinations beginning end of 2021 start of 2022. I do find it interesting though that throughout these threads WHO has been torn a new one but when this is mentioned it's massive :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Shin

polesheep · 06-10-2020 03:43PM

Sconsey wrote: »

It's terrible news for the 'RTE thrive on fear-mongering' crowd...RTE giving so much space to a good news Covid story.

Yeah, until we get the "Everyone knuckle down one more time for level 5 because the vaccine is on the way". RTE doesn't do good news stories.

Boggles · 06-10-2020 03:43PM

Eod100 wrote: »

They didn't advise the public though. The letter got leaked. Government side want to suggest it was NPHET who did that. Why would they? Likelier it came from government side.

It's exactly why Holohan and NPHET will be looking for clarification.

What Varadkar indulged in last night was pure tom fúckery, which essentially could cost us all.

It's a complete mess that needs to cleaned up.

ACitizenErased · 06-10-2020 03:43PM

shinzon wrote: »

Until I see a Vial and a syringe been stuck in it I rarely if ever believe there will be a vaccine until the middle of 2021 and general population vaccinations beginning end of 2021 start of 2022. I do find it interesting though that throughout these threads WHO has been torn a new one but when this is mentioned it's massive :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Shin

If you've been following the vaccine thread, it's not some massive surprise. There's already hundreds of millions of doses manufactured.

Harry Palmr · 06-10-2020 03:44PM

Have the nursing homes just dropped the ball through fatigue/complacency or are they allowing inside relatives again?

Derek Zoolander · 06-10-2020 03:44PM

shinzon wrote: »

Until I see a Vial and a syringe been stuck in it I rarely if ever believe there will be a vaccine until the middle of 2021 and general population vaccinations beginning end of 2021 start of 2022. I do find it interesting though that throughout these threads WHO has been torn a new one but when this is mentioned it's massive :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Shin

based on all data its pretty clear that the Pfizer one will get approval this year...

how long before its widely available and how many behind the PFizer one get a quick approval will determine access for main population - i think we'll see April/May for braoder availability

Nermal · 06-10-2020 03:46PM

Deleted User wrote: »

In fairness, on the 14th of september, with the trajectory then, we were heading for 5,000 cases a day by 31st Oct. Currently rate of growth would see us at somewhere over 200. What happened since the 14th?

Reminiscent of the Times forecasting in 1894 that by the middle of the following century every street in the London would be buried under nine feet of manure.

is_that_so · 06-10-2020 03:47PM

Boggles wrote: »

I imagine Leo has all ready been asked to clarify his comments, if that is not forth coming I imagine there will be a reaction.

Essentially Leo questioned the professionalism and ability to do the job of NPHET as a whole.

40 odd Doctors, Scientists and Academics won't just swallow it and let it go I imagine.

In the context of this, their communication was very shoddy, especially to the people who implement their advice. They never bothered a heads-up on what they were thinking.

Harry Palmr · 06-10-2020 03:48PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I wonder what is the uptake.

Staggeringly I see a survey that found just over half of all healthcare workers avail of the flu vaccine.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/influenza/seasonalinfluenza/influenzaandresidentsoflongtermcarefacilities/Seasonal%20Influenza%20Vaccine%20Uptake-2018-2019.pdf

Aprroving a vaccine for Covid will be one issue, getting relevant people to take it, especially health care workers is another

For some reason front line health care staff are terrible at getting the annual flu vaccine. Maybe they have this subconscious notion in their head that as the job hasn't actually killed them flu sure won't effect them in any meaningful way.

It ought to be in the employment contract.

polesheep · 06-10-2020 03:48PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Staffing in hospitals an issue according to INMO. "Overall picture of our bed count is much worse than what's being portrayed"

https://twitter.com/PaulQuinnNews/status/1313468786910007296?s=20

The INMO regularly trot out that "Nurses are exhausted" line yet do very little to improve things for the nurses. They were far to quick to capitulate during the strike and nurses felt very let down. They work hard and deserve better pay but there is no reason why any of them should be exhausted, except the ones double jobbing.

CIARAN_BOYLE · 06-10-2020 03:49PM

Derek Zoolander wrote: »

based on all data its pretty clear that the Pfizer one will get approval this year...

how long before its widely available and how many behind the PFizer one get a quick approval will determine access for main population - i think we'll see April/May for braoder availability

Is the Pfizer one one of the funds that the EU vaccine purchase fund has already placed orders for.

I don't think it is.

Eod100 · 06-10-2020 03:50PM

is_that_so wrote: »

In the context of this their communication was very shoddy, especially to people who implement their advice. They never bothered a heads-up on what they were thinking.

I thought it was NPHET advise, government decide. Should it be NPHET consult with government and make recommendations that are politically and economically palatable? Surely up to government to do that if they wish.

Derek Zoolander · 06-10-2020 03:50PM

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

Is the Pfizer one one of the funds that the EU vaccine purchase fund has already placed orders for.

I don't think it is.

looks like they do

https://www.biopharma-reporter.com/Article/2020/09/10/EU-lines-up-deal-with-BioNTech-Pfizer-for-coronavirus-vaccine-supply

landofthetree · 06-10-2020 03:50PM

Eod100 wrote: »

I've seen speculation that it wouldn't be distributed to general population in significant numbers until September 2023

What they mean is third world countries wont be getting it for years unless the first world pays for it.

I wouldnt mind the Irish government donating money for vaccines for poorer countries. Much better than what we currently do-handover nearly 1 billion per year thats mainly wasted.

Boggles · 06-10-2020 03:51PM

is_that_so wrote: »

In the context of this their communication was very shoddy, especially to people who implement their advice. They never bothered a heads-up on what they were thinking.

It's not how it works.

NPHET recommend what to do, they put this in a letter which gets sent to the cabinet.

It is how it has always worked and how it worked here.

It's up to Cabinet to make the decisions, including the time frame which they did for Dublin extending it out by 48 hours.

The main problem here is the cat is out the bag.

The promises about schools and health care being core priorities it quite obviously now bullshít.

polesheep · 06-10-2020 03:54PM

Boggles wrote: »

It's not how it works.

NPHET recommend what to do, they put this in a letter which gets sent to the cabinet.

It is how it has always worked and how it worked here.

It's up to Cabinet to make the decisions, including the time frame which they did for Dublin extending it out by 48 hours.

The main problem here is the cat is out the bag.

The promises about schools and health care being core priorities it quite obviously now bullshít.

The main problem is the manner in which things changed so dramatically between Thursday night and Sunday night. And we all know why that happened. that is the issue.

Stheno · 06-10-2020 03:54PM

GARDAÍ will from tomorrow be putting up 132 checkpoints across the entire country on the main arterial routes, including motorways, to ensure people are complying with Level 3 lockdown guidelines.

"Travelling tomorrow is going to a lot different to travelling today," said Garda Commissioner Drew Harris as he announced the measures at Garda HQ in the Phoenix Park, Dublin.

He warned of traffic jams. "We are putting checkpoints on the motorways, that's going to slow down traffic flow," he said.

While officers have not been given the powers by Government to enforce the guidelines, he suggested they were not needed for now, pointing out that of the hundreds of thousands of stops made during the last lockdown, special powers then afforded to gardaí were used only 342 times.

"Policing is an extension of good citizenship," he said.

Officers at the stops will be focusing on 'the three Es' - engage, educate and encourage.

While the Commissioner admitted that a motorist will be able to continue on, even if stopped and asked to turn back by officers, he said it would be "a foolish choice".

Asked how officers will be dealing with house parties, he pointed out that there are certain protections for citizens.

"There is a constitutional protection of the home," he said, but added gardaí will have a presence in areas where people are not following the guidelines.

"Having gardaí positioned outside your home during a house party will really dampen the mood," he said.

Checkpoints and community presence from the guards on the way from tomorrow

Eod100 · 06-10-2020 03:55PM

Boggles wrote: »

It's not how it works.

NPHET recommend what to do, they put this in a letter which gets sent to the cabinet.

It is how it has always worked and how it worked here.

It's up to Cabinet to make the decisions, including the time frame which they did for Dublin extending it out by 48 hours.

The main problem here is the cat is out the bag.

The promises about schools and health care being core priorities it quite obviously now bullshít.

The government also said they would need notice to prepare resources for level 5, notify social welfare etc. Level 5 is in their own plan. If they don't have a rough plan for when it's brought in then why include it at all?!

Covid 19 Part XXV-44,159 ROI (1,830 deaths) 21,898 NI (598 deaths) (13/10) Read OP

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