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Proof of Loan

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    #62
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,261 ✭✭✭Tork


    OP, you have been given several pages of almost unanimous advice here. Yet not one word of it appears to have sunk in. I feel we're all wasting our breath giving you advice here, seeing as you're hell bent on lending this friend your money. Maybe some day you'll come to your senses and that the loss of two thousand and sixty euros is a cheap lesson to learn.


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    #63
    Zebrag
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 158 ✭✭Zebrag


    Adolin wrote: »
    She is still asking for it, even after I've stated that I won't loan her the money. However now she'd be ok with getting 2K instead of 5K.

    Would agreeing to using the car as collateral in the event that she can't or won't pay me be one way to ensure that I can get my money back? Or can only a company that specializes in loaning money (like a bank) do this?

    Your friend doesn't seem to be getting the hint, or she doesn't want to get the hint that you're not going to lend her any sum of money. I would love to know why she is so persistent over this loan. If she dropped from €5,000 to €2,000 then is seems to me that she just looking for a loan off you and then god knows who else she's asking.

    I would still stick to your guns and say no. You don't even need to give a reason at this stage because she's not listening. Honestly I would of just ignored her bargaining at this rate and let her grovel to someone else.

    I personally don't think this is even for a car or rent or whatever excuses she has been given. My red flag is aimed at her boyfriend who lives with her and doesn't work. I'm leaning towards the boyfriend is broke and has asked his girlfriend to ask around for money. I still would say no.

    It doesn't matter if the money does go towards a car and you use it as collateral. Sure that would be a lost on your part anyways if she doesn't pay you back and you're willing to sell the car to gain back money, she would still owe you the extra as you wouldn't be getting your full amount back. Either ways, your friend has absolutely no intentions of paying you back.

    If she couldn't pay back €60 then €5,000 or €2,000 isn't going to be sitting in your account any time soon.

    You should take the advice from other posters and say no. You'll be doing yourself a favour. Yes you might lose a friend but she doesn't sound very friendly in accepting your rejection so that itself is another reason why you shouldn't continue the friendship


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    #64
    mrsdewinter
    Registered Users Posts: 2,116 ✭✭✭mrsdewinter


    OP, despite all advice to the contrary, you seem willing to entertain her requests (don't: insisting on the supposed car as collateral just opens up a whole new avenue of potential anxiety - re ownership, as outlined above - and possibly taking possession of a car you never wanted).

    If you are worried about her bad-mouthing you to mutual friends, please set that aside. Most likely, everybody in your friend group knows what she's like.

    It sounds like she's not that hard-up for cash (is it 5k she needs or 2k - there's a huge difference) and in any case, it's HER issue, not yours. It sounds like you have plenty of commitments, which are your issue and your priority.

    Don't give this any more of your time or energy.


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    #65
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,871 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Zebrag wrote: »
    If she couldn't pay back €60 then €5,000 or €2,000 isn't going to be sitting in your account any time soon.
    Everyone can afford to pay back a €60 loan with enough time. It wasn't that the OP's "friend" couldn't repay it, it was that they simply wouldn't! The OP was (and still is) obviously seen as an easy touch!


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    #66
    punisher5112
    Registered Users Posts: 24,647 ✭✭✭✭punisher5112


    I wish I was on this back in 2008 and could have saved myself the loss of €5k for helping a person out ... They were not a real friend, especially after the guilt trip and then turning it around and making me out to be the bad person, they even went as far as trying to get me sacked and had others back them up, death threats etc to me too.....


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    #67
    wildwillow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,113 ✭✭✭wildwillow


    Do not loan her the money.
    Do not feel guilty about not loaning it to her.
    Transfer it immediately into a notice deposit account so you cannot make a rash decision.
    You will not get any of it repaid,
    You will lose the friendship, though I wouldn't consider her a friend.
    Block her on all media if she continues to seek the money, I won't even call it a loan.


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    #68
    washiskin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,360 ✭✭✭washiskin


    If you give her this loan, she's no longer a friend but a debtor. As soon as you do, given your reservations now, all you'll feel is anxious that you won't get repayed and every time a repayment is late or missed, you will become angrier and angrier until there's a confrontation and you'll be made feel like the bad friend.
    I know you want to help, but personally, I'd be suspicious of someone who fibs about not being able to geta loan from a credit union and then knocks down the amount needed.


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    #69
    Adolin
    Registered Users Posts: 10 ✭Adolin


    I should have added to my earlier post today that this time last year she was in a very different position - her life was a complete mess, with no end in sight of her turning it around. Thus, to see her make a change in the last few weeks was very encouraging. To then see her fall back down that same hole again due to a lack of money was making me feel bad for her causing me to consider lending her the money.

    The reasoning for her changing from 5K to 2K was that she got in touch with her family & they said they would lend her the money for the rent at 2K, the other 1K she said she would get from someone else.

    However, I now remember an off-hand comment she made about 5 weeks ago where she said that she was talking to two other friends of hers & at the time they offered her money to help with paying bills & she turned them both down saying that she didn't need the money.

    I'm fairly certain that if she asked them, they would gladly lend it to her. For her to turn them down but still ask me, even after I said no is somewhat telling.

    The whole point on the collateral thing was me throwing an idea out there to see how feasible it would be, but alas it's a non-runner.

    Thanks to all for the comments on this, they were needed to help me to see what's what. Even those that felt like banging their heads off the wall thinking how can I be this naive to think of doing this, it's still appreciated.


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    #70
    HildaOgdenx
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,461 Mod ✭✭✭✭HildaOgdenx


    I presume from your most recent post that you are not going to lend the money.

    From here on, keep the state of your finances to yourself. It's nobody's business if you have a tenner to your name, or a million.

    I would also distance myself from that person, and stop giving them so much headspace. You said you have a lot going on. You don't need to add their woes, financial or otherwise to your list.

    Mind yourself.


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    #71
    Tork
    Registered Users Posts: 3,261 ✭✭✭Tork


    None of this extra detail makes the idea of loaning her money any better though. She's already struggling financially and can't keep up with her existing overheads. Loans to bail her out are the equivalent of putting a sticking plaster over a gaping wound. They aren't going to solve her income vs expenditure problems. She and her boyfriend don't have enough money coming into their home to cover what's going out in the other direction. They're living beyond their means. Seeing as you appear to know an unhealthy amount about each other's finances, do you know why they're in financial trouble? Why is he not working and is he actively job hunting? What steps have they as a couple taken to cut back on their expenditure?

    If somebody is struggling financially, one of the things they're advised to do is get rid of their car if they can. As any motorist will tell you, cars cost money to run. Lots of it. Your friend can't afford to run a car, let alone pay you back on top of that. If everyone on her bus/train is wearing a mask, she's going to be well protected from potential virus carriers. If she gets herself some good quality N95 masks, keeps 2m from others and keeps hand sanitizer with her, the chances of her catching the virus on public transport are very slim indeed. She'd be in more potential danger of catching it in shops which aren't being strict about mask wearing.

    It's very odd that this woman has all these people around her who are willing to loan her large sums of money. Are ye enabling her? There has to come a time when people say No to her and make her solve her own problems. She's a grown woman in a relationship. She's not a child.


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    #72
    helimachoptor
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 21,640 Mod ✭✭✭✭helimachoptor


    The way things are going that cash could be the reason you can pay your rent or not.
    Just tell her with unknown economic conditions you need it.


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    #73
    valoren
    Registered Users Posts: 5,458 ✭✭✭valoren


    Here’s a learning lesson for situations like yours and lending significant money to people who have a history of failing to repay.

    In 2012 my younger brother was getting married. I was his best man and two days before it the hotel rang him to settle the reception fee (€4,500). So financially feckless was he that he thought he could pay it after the reception. He had €1,500 cash to hand and was planning on using cash gifts to cover it. I was appalled when he told me and needless to say he was stressed out. I happened to have the amount available and gave him a bank draft for €4,500. He gave me the cash he had and we agreed that he would repay me 3k as soon as he came back from his honeymoon. A major red flag was that he asked me not to tell his wife to be, another was that he'd been loaned €600 in 2009 when he was made redundant on the proviso that he repaid me €20 a week once he got back on his feet. He never repaid anything. He was blindsided by his own lack of planning and, given the deadline for payment, it wasn't a case of him going about getting a loan. I told him I could lend him the money as a bridging loan. I rationalised it away as it being an actual formal expense and one he swore he would repay in due course. He stress was alleviated. He came back and gave lip service to his debt but he didn't give me the money. Over time it transpired that he was in an abusive, controlling marriage and was not in charge of the finances. Him getting a personal loan was out of the question. I never mentioned it to his wife or our own family as agreed and it became the elephant in the room between us. I was single with no dependents, I didn't need the money but I was still owed it on principle.

    Three years later his toxic wife engineered a split between us. Long story short, she was a serial bully who bullied my girlfriend, who got called on it, who didn't like it, who played victim, counter cried bully and he backed her up. We fell out. In the aftermath, I then went after him for repayment. He ignored me, was presumably glad we'd fallen out considering we didn't speak anymore and he could dodge repayment. After months of silence from his end, I divulged what had happened within the family. They were appalled and called him out on it. Needless to say I was smeared by him as a trouble maker looking to split up their marriage, I was trying to alienate him from our family by framing him as dodging a loan agreement, I was even smeared as a bully who had deliberately given him the money as a means of lording it over him and controlling him, I was a lying scumbag etc. He'd been named and shamed and to save face he had to get a check from his in-laws to settle his debt. The culmination of it was him throwing the cheque for 3k at my feet and angrily disowning me. I got repaid but my gesture, done in good faith, resulted in acrimony and drama. We haven't spoken for years.

    My point is, he'd been done a good turn once before and through not having the respect of repaying that turn he showed me his true colours. The second time, again trying to do the right and logical thing, he tried to burn me again. Even if he was in a controlling marriage with no access to money he could always have confronted his wife about the need to repay me and dealt with the fall out. Your friend showed you her true colours, has determined that your a soft touch to go tapping up thousands for in a "loan". I've said it already but don't lend her any money and don't fall for the guilt tripping because should you loan that money you'll have a hard time getting it back. I would be blunt with her and stick by your guns particularly after you've told her no already. It's clear she's after any amount of money as she reduced her asking amount as is. Take it from me, avoid the hassle such private arrangements can cause you. Given her chaotic financial affairs, you can expect a chaotic repayment schedule should you lend her money.


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    #74
    Hoboo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,518 ✭✭✭Hoboo


    Lend her the money. You'll feel better, she'll feel better, so it's all good.

    Just wanted to point out though she's got her life together as you put it, yet is 2k behind in bills. So she'll be another 2k behind in a few months. She now has 3 lenders all looking for payment.

    How can she pay 3 loans and bills, if she can't pay for bills as it is?

    Give her the money, please.


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    #75
    Dial Hard
    Registered Users Posts: 13,383 ✭✭✭✭Dial Hard


    Hoboo wrote: »
    Lend her the money. You'll feel better, she'll feel better, so it's all good.

    Just wanted to point out though she's got her life together as you put it, yet is 2k behind in bills. So she'll be another 2k behind in a few months. She now has 3 lenders all looking for payment.

    How can she pay 3 loans and bills, if she can't pay for bills as it is?

    Give her the money, please.

    None of this is the OP's problem.


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    #76
    Katgurl
    Registered Users Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭Katgurl


    Do not give her a cent and accept that she is not your friend. She asked, you said no, she asked again.

    A few years ago, I was in college but had more disposable cash than most. A friend of mine would often take advantage a bit but I didn't mind as I assumed it the tables were reversed she would help me out. She 'borrowed' money from me frequently too. I didn't mind that either although it became frustrating navigating the the drama of getting it back every single time.

    Then I fell ill and my consulting work dried up and I was very tight, I had savings but they just about covered household bills. My medical bills were piling up. She asked me to lend her a sizeable amount of money. Sorry i told her sincerely, I don't have it.

    She turned up at my house later that week asking me to reconsider. Feeling miffed I said again no and please don't ask again, I have enough stress (I was very ill).

    I was in hospital after traumatic painful surgery. I had just been let out of the ICU after three days there. We had gone from seeing each other every day to rarely. I was delighted to see her. In a haze of morphine I remember her asking could she borrow some money. No I have none to spare, I need to pay the electricity and broadband. I'll pay you back she argued (never did before) and in my weak state I remember her picking up my handbag and suggesting she take my card to the ATM.


    No I said and drifted off to sleep. She didn't know my pin anyway. When I woke up she was gone and never returned or asked what my diagnosis was or if I recovered etc.


    A few years later she contacted me asking how I was. I blocked her immediately.


    If you said no she should never have asked again. That is not a friend. Don't explain yourself and don't give her any money. Simply say 'i have given you my answer already, I don't understand why you keep asking. It is making me very uncomfortable."


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