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veterinary vampires

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    #32
    kerry cow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭kerry cow


    if you could get your drugs and vaccines at a massively reduced price , for which you really should , only for the massive mark up , then you are
    a happy customer . should be allowed a script and shop anywhere .

    then if the vet charges you 120 or 150 euro to call out , he may or may not prescribe a drug .
    you would be up in arms about his price .
    then you'd be complaining about his charge .
    yet if you believe he is providing a good service then pay him and shut up .

    but the reality is the vet masks it all with a high drug price and also supplies the remedy .
    crazy really .
    fine the vet needs his drug on the day of a visit , if its a emergency ,but otherwise you should get a script and shop where you like .

    some people cannt see the wood from the trees .
    the vet need to stop hiding behind the cost of drugs , tb , vaccines , and now dosing.

    how much a hour is a vet ?

    you get people working shift work all the time , nurses ,doctors , pilots , hauliers , factories ,electricans and fitters , so why can a vet not provide a service 24 /7
    that what they sign up to when you open a large animal practice ,
    so how much a hour is a vet , we know what a bale of silage costs , a ton of meal .
    the problem here is the vet has the farmer in a position of weak ness , and now the domineering is getting worse and farmers are paralysed.

    luckily I don't rely on the vet that much , I use vaccination , minerals , good long dry period ,good housing , roads and its keeps him out .

    I don't like the way they take advantage of farmers and the charged for the small animals is just another story entirely .
    thankfully been educated stops the inferior complex , that the vet is above me ,

    if your doctor operated like your vet , you'd be up in arms ,


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    #33
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,515 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Can’t say anything against our vet practice, we don’t use massive volumes of wormers but always buy them in the practice, always a nurse on the counter.

    Vets treat us very fairly, no problem getting a vet when we need one and I’ve no problem paying a premium for out of hours calls, your paying them for unsocial hours worked and nobody does that for free. When I worked in industry I wouldn’t go in out of hours for anything less than double time ( mostly double time In liu rather than pay) I know lads in local creamery on maintenance and they are on triple time for callouts.

    Seeing the attitudes shown here is exactly why I’m reluctant to encourage my daughter to vetinary even though she is very keen at the moment.

    I’m our area female vets probably outnumber male vets and we find them easier to deal with and mostly better outcomes.


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    #34
    kerry cow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭kerry cow


    Dinzee Conlee wrote:
    As to the OP - I don’t know the detail of the incoming changes. I do think vets in his country don’t get paid much for what’s a hard job, and the service they provide...

    why not , why not charge for their service and then see what the farmer mood is , stop masking it .

    let the farmer see the real value of the vet .


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    #35
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    kerry cow wrote: »
    if you could get your beef from Brazil at a massively reduced price , for which you really should , only for the massive mark up , then you are
    a happy customer ...

    Changed a couple of words in your post that might be relevant.


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    #36
    kerry cow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭kerry cow


    imagine if you wanted to spray weeds but you could only use a registered contractor ,there was only 3 in the greater area , and they supplied the chemical too , but you can buy it anywhere , and you felt so luck to have them because the weed would over run you .

    or if you were not allowed store diesel on your farm but a truck would come to fill you ,

    or you could not service you tractor filters because the main dealer has to come do it , not matter if it the 30 yr old scraper tractor ,
    he supplies the filter and labour , charged you a arm and a leg , but sure it had to be done , especially if its regulation , once a year ,

    by God we' d all be funked over ,

    it may all come to pass .

    see unless we are retarded , we can actually do something ourselves .


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    #37
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    Veterinary Medicine has the highest rate of suicide of any profession, and it's not hard to see why.

    They go to college to learn more than what the average doctor learns, in a shorter space of time. They work crazy hours. They have to work with animals that can't tell them what's going on and often owners that won't. They face death on a daily basis and still have to slap on a smile as they run to the next client. They often barely have time to eat as they rush from one emergency to the next, trying their best to be in two places at once. They witness the worst of animal abuse, and they can't always do something about it. They're there 24/7, in any weather, every day of the year so that, on a fundamental level at least, farmers can continue to try and make a profit

    And yet, they're called vampires. They're called leeches. For every good client which understands how things are, there's a terrible one who abuses staff. They get yelled at for not being able to save an animal that should have been taken in days ago. They get screamed at for not automatically knowing exactly what's wrong with an animal without running diagnostics. They get talked down to and mocked by people who "know better". They get told on a regular basis that they don't care about the animals they have dedicated their lives to saving, because they have to make money in order to pay to get in the medications to save the animals in the first place, or to help cover the costs of a new piece of equipment. What would take 10 human doctors, it takes one vet who is paid a pittance in comparison to just one of those human doctors.

    I, for one, will remain eternally grateful I don't live in America and we only have to pay a tiny fraction of what they do.


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    #38
    _Brian
    Registered Users Posts: 18,515 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    Veterinary Medicine has the highest rate of suicide of any profession, and it's not hard to see why.

    They go to college to learn more than what the average doctor learns, in a shorter space of time. They work crazy hours. They have to work with animals that can't tell them what's going on and often owners that won't. They face death on a daily basis and still have to slap on a smile as they run to the next client. They often barely have time to eat as they rush from one emergency to the next, trying their best to be in two places at once. They witness the worst of animal abuse, and they can't always do something about it. They're there 24/7, in any weather, every day of the year so that, on a fundamental level at least, farmers can continue to try and make a profit

    And yet, they're called vampires. They're called leeches. For every good client which understands how things are, there's a terrible one who abuses staff. They get yelled at for not being able to save an animal that should have been taken in days ago. They get screamed at for not automatically knowing exactly what's wrong with an animal without running diagnostics. They get talked down to and mocked by people who "know better". They get told on a regular basis that they don't care about the animals they have dedicated their lives to saving, because they have to make money in order to pay to get in the medications to save the animals in the first place, or to help cover the costs of a new piece of equipment. What would take 10 human doctors, it takes one vet who is paid a pittance in comparison to just one of those human doctors.

    I, for one, will remain eternally grateful I don't live in America and we only have to pay a tiny fraction of what they do.

    Huge mistake by farmers is that because they chose a profession that is poorly paid and doesn’t recognise unsocial hours they think everyone should be willing to do the same. I saw plenty of that when servicing milking machines and doing emergency calls.

    The world has moved on and people value their time. If you want a get at 3am your going to have to pay for unsocial hours calls.


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    #39
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    _Brian wrote:
    The world has moved on and people value their time. If you want a get at 3am your going to have to pay for unsocial hours calls.


    I don't even think that vets mind the 3am calls, if they are to a respectful farmer who isn't gonna go off on one.

    I actually forgot to add to that post that I know most veterinary practices (and majority of large animal professionals that I've come across) have enough in their unpaid fees ledgers that they could build at least one, if not several more practices.


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    #40
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,220 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Daughter has an interest in becoming a vet. She would I think make a good one. I am trying to steer her away from it tbh. Too many moany farmers to be dealing with


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    #41
    ganmo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,748 ✭✭✭ganmo


    What made me turn away from wanting to be a vet was the realisation I'd be dealing with sick animals and only sick animals


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    #42
    White Clover
    Registered Users Posts: 4,577 ✭✭✭White Clover


    As far as I can see on this thread, most farmers are very happy with the service and charges from their Vets.
    I know I am anyway, if I was looking for a doctor to come to my house at 3am in the morning, what's the chance of that happening?
    I'm only a small farmer, but, the level of service received from our Vets is unbelievable, for a very reasonable charge. I also buy vaccines, doses and minerals from them at very reasonable rates.
    You won't miss them until they're gone.


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    #43
    Ave Sodalis
    Registered Users Posts: 7,548 ✭✭✭Ave Sodalis


    whelan2 wrote:
    Daughter has an interest in becoming a vet. She would I think make a good one. I am trying to steer her away from it tbh. Too many moany farmers to be dealing with


    Smalls aren't a whole lot different to be honest! Try telling a cat owner that their feline is morbidly obese and is dying because of it. Or their dog needs 20 tooth extractions because they haven't had a dental in 6 years. They may pay on time more often, but furmammies exist and they can be worse than the Karens of retail. A friend of mine has had death threats, and from what I've heard, it's not an uncommon thing.


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    #44
    Westernrock
    Registered Users Posts: 283 ✭✭Westernrock


    kerry cow wrote: »
    if you could get your drugs and vaccines at a massively reduced price , for which you really should , only for the massive mark up , then you are
    a happy customer . should be allowed a script and shop anywhere .

    then if the vet charges you 120 or 150 euro to call out , he may or may not prescribe a drug .
    you would be up in arms about his price .
    then you'd be complaining about his charge .
    yet if you believe he is providing a good service then pay him and shut up .

    but the reality is the vet masks it all with a high drug price and also supplies the remedy .
    crazy really .
    fine the vet needs his drug on the day of a visit , if its a emergency ,but otherwise you should get a script and shop where you like .

    some people cannt see the wood from the trees .
    the vet need to stop hiding behind the cost of drugs , tb , vaccines , and now dosing.

    how much a hour is a vet ?

    you get people working shift work all the time , nurses ,doctors , pilots , hauliers , factories ,electricans and fitters , so why can a vet not provide a service 24 /7
    that what they sign up to when you open a large animal practice ,
    so how much a hour is a vet , we know what a bale of silage costs , a ton of meal .
    the problem here is the vet has the farmer in a position of weak ness , and now the domineering is getting worse and farmers are paralysed.

    luckily I don't rely on the vet that much , I use vaccination , minerals , good long dry period ,good housing , roads and its keeps him out .

    I don't like the way they take advantage of farmers and the charged for the small animals is just another story entirely .
    thankfully been educated stops the inferior complex , that the vet is above me ,

    if your doctor operated like your vet , you'd be up in arms ,

    Vets in the UK would charge per 10 minute block of time in a lot of areas for ball park £150/hour.

    If your doctor operated like your vet a lot of people would be delighted! Appointments given to suit the client not the other way around, going above and beyond to accommodate part time farmers etc. Shorter waiting times, blood tests, X-rays, ultrasounds, mostly all carried out on site without referral.
    Vets are professionals like accountants solicitors etc, how many accountants or solicitors would work for the money vets do? They don’t have anything near the costs a vet would and do all their work in their comfy office. They charge more than vets and don’t get asked for discounts or to pay months after the work was done.

    You clearly think you are above your vet who is an anaesthetist, radiographer, ultrasonographer, gynaecologist, dermatologist, surgeon, obstetrician etc etc. I doubt you’d last a day trying to do a vets job never mind trying to run a practice, keep clients and suppliers happy and make a profit margin to allow staff to be paid to provide 24/7 service (that they signed up for) 🙈🙈🀣🀣🀣


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    #45
    Mooooo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,611 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    No issue with our vets here, lads/ ladies in the office, well two in particular are excellent as well.
    With regard to TB, it's a ****show, but i wouldnt say with regard to the vets doing their job, but due inaccuracy of the tests, to the pressure it can put on farm businesses with inadequate compensation etc. Department still consider farmers time and land cost at zero. Also the inability or unwillingness to deal with the wildlife causes of TB
    With regard to medicines/ dosing / vaccines, as a country we are getting screwed on both animal and human prices of both, and not always due to the person selling it. If more controls need to be brought in with regard to sale fair enough but it should not reduce the competition for sale of said products


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    #46
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    Ave Sodalis wrote: »
    I don't even think that vets mind the 3am calls, if they are to a respectful farmer who isn't gonna go off on one.

    I actually forgot to add to that post that I know most veterinary practices (and majority of large animal professionals that I've come across) have enough in their unpaid fees ledgers that they could build at least one, if not several more practices.

    If a vet arrives here at 3am, they get the offer of tea/coffee before even starting work, especially on a cold night. Vet/Farmer relationships can be as good or as bad as you make them.

    I'm very happy to pay a callout fee, out of hours fee etc if the vet shows up in good time & does what s/he can. You won't win them all, that's for sure. But being a tightarse & tipping away with your own shots etc & only calling the vey out when the animal is on it's last legs is just stupid. And then it's the vet's fault. And there's also far too many farmers throwing too much antibiotics into animals when they don't need it.


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    #47
    TheBlackPill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭TheBlackPill


    endainoz wrote: »
    That's impossible to quantify, it all comes from the EU CAP budget. Many things are subsidized by European money. That "shovelled" money ensures you get affordable food at the supermarket. If you have genuine questions, the posters here will be happy to answer them. If your here to bash farmers, keep walking.
    I agree if CAP disappeared overnight, there would he carnage, but there must be a better way..


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    #48
    TheBlackPill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭TheBlackPill


    _Brian wrote: »
    Huge mistake by farmers is that because they chose a profession that is poorly paid and doesn’t recognise unsocial hours they think everyone should be willing to do the same. I saw plenty of that when servicing milking machines and doing emergency calls.

    The world has moved on and people value their time. If you want a get at 3am your going to have to pay for unsocial hours calls.
    There is a big vocation element to choosing it too


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    #49
    kerry cow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭kerry cow


    Pkiernan wrote:
    Changed a couple of words in your post that might be relevant.


    I didn't post that sentence ,so mod's might like to look into it , changing and inserting words of anothers post is dangerous thing to do .


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    #50
    Anto_Meath
    Registered Users Posts: 1,309 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    Couldn't praise our vets enough, 24 hour 365 day a year service was promised to my Dad by the founding Vets back in the 70's the current owners are still providing this. They also provide good advice over the phone & don't charge for that. They also run a good shop. But what I have noticed is if you pay for stuff on the day in the shop you could get up to a third of a discount over putting it on account.


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    #51
    kerry cow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭kerry cow


    for the record ,

    vets provide a excellent service i am very happy with my vet .

    hope ye are all clear on that .
    some just jump right in their and say kerry cow doesn't like the vet ,bla, bla .

    my issue is with monopoly ,
    my issue is with let a vet call at 3am .
    but let be clear about the rates and charges ,
    stop mashing it all in with high drug charges,
    its a common practice all over the country , that we vet won't charge a proper call out fee .
    and inturn we end up with the vet wanting to supply on POM our dosing and vaccines .

    call a spade a spade ,
    pay the vet for his day and night charges properly , I totally agree , but give us a script to buy from our licence merchant or pharmacy .

    am I been totally off the wall .
    I dont think so .
    how can anybody have a problem with that .

    too many on here read between the lines ,what they think they see ,rather than what is printed .


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    #52
    Lady Haywire
    Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭Lady Haywire


    kerry cow wrote: »
    for the record ,

    vets provide a excellent service i am very happy with my vet .

    hope ye are all clear on that .
    some just jump right in their and say kerry cow doesn't like the vet ,bla, bla .

    my issue is with monopoly ,
    my issue is with let a vet call at 3am .
    but let be clear about the rates and charges ,
    stop mashing it all in with high drug charges,
    its a common practice all over the country , that we vet won't charge a proper call out fee .
    and inturn we end up with the vet wanting to supply on POM our dosing and vaccines .

    call a spade a spade ,
    pay the vet for his day and night charges properly , I totally agree , but give us a script to buy from our licence merchant or pharmacy .

    am I been totally off the wall .
    I dont think so .
    how can anybody have a problem with that .

    too many on here read between the lines ,what they think they see ,rather than what is printed .

    And how can a vet do his work at 3am without using his own drugs? Unless you want him to do a section with nothing more than a scalpel and hot water.
    If I have a cow in urgent need of attention, I am not going to haggle. A few euro extra is far less than a lost animal if you're acting the pup & he declines to be your vet any more.


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    #53
    kerry cow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭kerry cow


    Lady Haywire wrote:
    And how can a vet do his work at 3am without using his own drugs? Unless you want him to do a section with nothing more than a scalpel and hot water. If I have a cow in urgent need of attention, I am not going to haggle. A few euro extra is far less than a lost animal if you're acting the pup & he declines to be your vet any more.


    well as I posted before if you care to read before you attack , the vet should have his own supply for his call out , isn't that not common sense ,

    problem is common sense is lacking also, in not allowing competition .
    but sure why would any business want competition .


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    #54
    Dinzee Conlee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,142 ✭✭✭Dinzee Conlee


    kerry cow wrote: »
    well as I posted before if you care to read before you attack , the vet should have his own supply for his call out , isn't that not common sense ,

    problem is common sense is lacking also, in not allowing competition .
    but sure why would any business want competition .

    So what is it you want?

    You want to be able to walk into your vet, get a prescription, walk out with the prescription and fill it somewhere else? Maybe online?

    You then want the vet to be at the end of the phone to answer any queries you have, plus potentially come out to you at 3am. Then and only then, you’ll buy medicines from the vet?

    Have you spoken to your current vet to see if they would provide this service when the new regulations come in?
    Have you spoken to other vets in your area if they would provide this service?

    Remember competition means you can move vets and don’t have to stick with your current vet...

    I might have missed the link with the new regulations, so could you throw it up please...


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    #55
    Sheep breeder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    So what is it you want?

    You want to be able to walk into your vet, get a prescription, walk out with the prescription and fill it somewhere else? Maybe online?

    You then want the vet to be at the end of the phone to answer any queries you have, plus potentially come out to you at 3am. Then and only then, you’ll buy medicines from the vet?

    Have you spoken to your current vet to see if they would provide this service when the new regulations come in?
    Have you spoken to other vets in your area if they would provide this service?

    Remember competition means you can move vets and don’t have to stick with your current vet...

    I might have missed the link with the new regulations, so could you throw it up please...

    Like your post,
    First how many times have anyone had the vet out at 3am, usually it is down to waiting to long to intervene and then expecting the vet to provide a miracle. The vet practice we use has 5 or 6 vets and was started by one who now is his sevenths and is still working flat out and is a world of up to date knowledge and a man who can impart knowledge and advice and is always in great form and loves a bit of craic. His main line is pickup the phone at any time for help. What per hour is that worth.


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    #56
    Tonynewholland
    Registered Users Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    Sheep breeder wrote: »
    Like your post,
    First how many times have anyone had the vet out at 3am, usually it is down to waiting to long to intervene and then expecting the vet to provide a miracle. The vet practice we use has 5 or 6 vets and was started by one who now is his sevenths and is still working flat out and is a world of up to date knowledge and a man who can impart knowledge and advice and is always in great form and loves a bit of craic. His main line is pickup the phone at any time for help. What per hour is that worth.

    From talking to my vet the middle of the night calls are not as busy as in the past.
    The evenings are busy with the part time lads home from work checking stock and busy from 6:00 in the mornings in spring with dairy farmers


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    #57
    kerry cow
    Registered Users Posts: 1,301 ✭✭✭kerry cow


    Sheep breeder wrote:
    Like your post, First how many times have anyone had the vet out at 3am, usually it is down to waiting to long to intervene and then expecting the vet to provide a miracle. The vet practice we use has 5 or 6 vets and was started by one who now is his sevenths and is still working flat out and is a world of up to date knowledge and a man who can impart knowledge and advice and is always in great form and loves a bit of craic. His main line is pickup the phone at any time for help. What per hour is that worth.


    well what is it worth ,
    put a figure on it .


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    #58
    Pkiernan
    Registered Users Posts: 4,315 ✭✭✭Pkiernan


    kerry cow wrote: »
    I didn't post that sentence ,so mod's might like to look into it , changing and inserting words of anothers post is dangerous thing to do .

    thats why I told you I changed it.

    Brazilian beef would be a lot cheaper for Irish consumers.


    You want cheaper vet services...a lot of consumers would like cheaper beef.


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    #59
    older by the day
    Registered Users Posts: 1,614 ✭✭✭older by the day


    Gave 1000 Euro to the vet today. But I wouldn't be angry about it, I get a great service. They will be out in 20 mins if I need them. A cousin of mine was left lying on the street in town for 2 hours after breaking his hip. Ambulance was on duty in cork. What would the vet earn in a small animal clinic while they are an hour with me. Not covered in ****e, claming weanlings or trying to turn a calf in the womb. Small animals, That's where they can really sock it on. Would you expect a person with more qualification than a doctor, work for min wage. I hope they stay at it.


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    #60
    Sheep breeder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,989 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    kerry cow wrote: »
    well what is it worth ,
    put a figure on it .

    Priceless
    My two women are mad about stock, our vet always is giving them information when he meets them and answers any questions with no hassle or charge.
    Money is not everything, no pockets in the habit.


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    #61
    Donegalforever
    Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭Donegalforever


    Dinzee Conlee wrote: »
    No - still smiling - see :):)

    I take your point - we should shop around, shop at large merchants and not use local vets as they are too expensive...

    Another smiley there for kicks... :)

    You are free to buy all you require from the vet.
    After all fools and their money are easily parted.


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