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veterinary vampires

  • 02-10-2020 10:29am
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,300 kerry cow


    looks like our new minister of agriculture ,sees an end insight for the eradication of TB , dont worry the vets won't go hungry .they are going to continue to feed off the farmers , with the axe falling on the licenced merchants ,

    yet it has been good enough for them to service us all the years gone .
    its the veterinary club looking after each other and seeing the TB gravy train will finish up .
    so it a case of tie up the dosing and the vaccine market .

    how have our farm representatives allowed this is beyond me , how weak we are represented .


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭ omicron


    Complain about having to pay for testing.

    Complain about having to get a veterinary prescription for prescription products.

    And then probably complain when there's no vet available to do a section for you at 3am.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭ endainoz


    omicron wrote: »
    Complain about having to pay for testing.

    Complain about having to get a veterinary prescription for prescription products.

    And then probably complain when there's no vet available to do a section for you at 3am.

    Absolutely agree, this "money racket for the vets" is nearly a conspiracy theory at this stage. People should have a good friendly relationship with their vets, not the other way around.


  • Registered Users Posts: 745 ✭✭✭ Cattlepen


    omicron wrote: »
    Complain about having to pay for testing.

    Complain about having to get a veterinary prescription for prescription products.

    And then probably complain when there's no vet available to do a section for you at 3am.

    Sorry but the vet is NOT expected to do a section for free. They charge a fee and are hopefully paid. The 3 am in the morning bit goes with the job.
    Tb testing has been a testimonial for vets for years and now, as the other poster has said, they want the wormers and vaccines to themselves. No deals to be done for these products anymore


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,300 kerry cow


    is it not a conflict of interest prescribing and dispensing .

    why can the vet not call out at the beginning of the year , do a health plan for the herd and write his herd prescription and let the farmer buy it off what ever merchant is most competitive .
    its bull **** to prescribe something that your are selling .

    and furthermore how can a vet allow his staff dispense products today and yesterday and next week when sometimes he's 5 miles away in a van .

    rotten I think .

    and surprise there are so many uneducated muffets on here .


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,350 ✭✭✭ jaymla627


    kerry cow wrote: »
    looks like our new minister of agriculture ,sees an end insight for the eradication of TB , dont worry the vets won't go hungry .they are going to continue to feed off the farmers , with the axe falling on the licenced merchants ,

    yet it has been good enough for them to service us all the years gone .
    its the veterinary club looking after each other and seeing the TB gravy train will finish up .
    so it a case of tie up the dosing and the vaccine market .

    how have our farm representatives allowed this is beyond me , how weak we are represented .

    If tb testing was ever scrapped, you would simply have a johnes mandatory test our mycoplasma bovis test to fill the void, it was a bit Irish that with the end of bruceillois testing, mandatory bvd testing was rolled out, to keep the labs in work, was it a 3 our 5 year time frame given for herds at the time that where continously pi free would of been exempted from further testing, whatever happened their


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭ endainoz


    kerry cow wrote: »
    is it not a conflict of interest prescribing and dispensing .

    why can the vet not call out at the beginning of the year , do a health plan for the herd and write his herd prescription and let the farmer buy it off what ever merchant is most competitive .
    its bull **** to prescribe something that your are selling .

    and furthermore how can a vet allow his staff dispense products today and yesterday and next week when sometimes he's 5 miles away in a van .

    rotten I think .

    and surprise there are so many uneducated muffets on here .

    Where are you getting this information that co ops won't be allowed to sell products anymore? Theres absolutely nothing stopping anyone do a herd health plan because vets prefer prevention rather than cure so they would all welcome it. A health plan is pretty easy to do if you have a rough idea what kind of diseases might be in your area.

    If the problem is that regular off the shelf items need prescriptions, that means that they are being overused and need to be reduced. Can definitely see ivermectin going that way, as has been discussed here before.

    Your third point makes no sense to me anyway.

    Maybe the other uneducated "muffetts" could explain it to me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭ endainoz


    jaymla627 wrote: »
    If tb testing was ever scrapped, you would simply have a johnes mandatory test our mycoplasma bovis test to fill the void, it was a bit Irish that with the end of bruceillois testing, mandatory bvd testing was rolled out, to keep the labs in work, was it a 3 our 5 year time frame given for herds at the time that where continously pi free would of been exempted from further testing, whatever happened their

    I'd agree with that, the BVD eradication scheme is a joke alright. How long is it going on now, 7 years?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭ Bitten & Hisses


    omicron wrote: »
    Complain about having to pay for testing.

    Complain about having to get a veterinary prescription for prescription products.

    And then probably complain when there's no vet available to do a section for you at 3am.

    This. The vet practice I use isn't cheap, but I feel I get excellent value for money from them. Considering the 24/7 nature of the service, I won't complain about having to buy doses or vaccines from them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭ kk.man


    kerry cow wrote: »
    looks like our new minister of agriculture ,sees an end insight for the eradication of TB , dont worry the vets won't go hungry .they are going to continue to feed off the farmers , with the axe falling on the licenced merchants ,

    yet it has been good enough for them to service us all the years gone .
    its the veterinary club looking after each other and seeing the TB gravy train will finish up .
    so it a case of tie up the dosing and the vaccine market .

    how have our farm representatives allowed this is beyond me , how weak we are represented .

    They have been talking about eradication of TB since I was a boy.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,300 kerry cow


    endainoz wrote:
    Your third point makes no sense to me anyway.

    veterinary staff are not allowed dispense out antibiotics to a farmer , its the vet that should dispense it , but we see all over the country , the counter assistant dispensing , so it ok for the vet to be in his van on the road , all awhile his girl in the office giving out the antibiotics but a licenced merchant cannt do what he has been doing for years with vaccines and dosing

    so I hope you understand what I am saying and if not please do say and I can repeat it again .
    vets secretary's are not allowed dispense antibiotics , its the vet that needs to be onsite to do that .

    its a conflict of interest , the situation we are in and its anti competitive and infact vets shouldn't be allowed prescribe and supply , it unethical really .
    but its all about money and the farm organisation should be ashamed of them selves .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭ endainoz


    kerry cow wrote: »
    veterinary staff are not allowed dispense out antibiotics to a farmer , its the vet that should dispense it , but we see all over the country , the counter assistant dispensing , so it ok for the vet to be in his van on the road , all awhile his girl in the office giving out the antibiotics but a licenced merchant cannt do what he has been doing for years with vaccines and dosing

    so I hope you understand what I am saying and if not please do say and I can repeat it again .
    vets secretary's are not allowed dispense antibiotics , its the vet that needs to be onsite to do that .

    its a conflict of interest , the situation we are in and its anti competitive and infact vets shouldn't be allowed prescribe and supply , it unethical really .
    but its all about money and the farm organisation should be ashamed of them selves .

    "Vets secretaries, his girl in the office?" Christ man is your vet from the 1950s or what? Plenty of female vets out there, and most I've dealt with are better than the men. You still haven't said where you heard this news. If you can link an article I'd happily look at it.

    When could you get antibiotics off a local co op? Do you want people to open up vetenary pharmacies or what so you don't have to pay your vet for them?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭ ganmo


    kerry cow wrote: »
    veterinary staff are not allowed dispense out antibiotics to a farmer , its the vet that should dispense it , but we see all over the country , the counter assistant dispensing , so it ok for the vet to be in his van on the road , all awhile his girl in the office giving out the antibiotics but a licenced merchant cannt do what he has been doing for years with vaccines and dosing

    so I hope you understand what I am saying and if not please do say and I can repeat it again .
    vets secretary's are not allowed dispense antibiotics , its the vet that needs to be onsite to do that .

    its a conflict of interest , the situation we are in and its anti competitive and infact vets shouldn't be allowed prescribe and supply , it unethical really .
    but its all about money and the farm organisation should be ashamed of them selves .

    The 'girl at the counter' is a vet nurse. So just like how nurses are allowed to prescribe certain drugs so are vet nurses.

    What vaccines are POM? I thought merchants didnt handle the special ones solely down to the short shelf life.


  • Registered Users Posts: 443 ✭✭ Tonynewholland


    ganmo wrote: »
    The 'girl at the counter' is a vet nurse. So just like how nurses are allowed to prescribe certain drugs so are vet nurses.

    What vaccines are POM? I thought merchants didnt handle the special ones solely down to the short shelf life.

    I wouldn’t say many are veterinary nurses to be fair.
    It’s a European rule change coming in 2022
    it will lead to less competition which isn’t good for farmers what ever way you look at it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,881 ✭✭✭ Base price


    ganmo wrote: »
    The 'girl at the counter' is a vet nurse. So just like how nurses are allowed to prescribe certain drugs so are vet nurses.

    What vaccines are POM? I thought merchants didnt handle the special ones solely down to the short shelf life.
    AFAIK it's more to do with cattle/sheep doses
    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/department-urged-to-protect-agri-stores-from-veterinary-medicine-supply-changes/
    Edit to add - when I asked our Vet recently about this new legislation she said that there would be no charge for issuing a prescription. As I have stated previously, our Vet is the third most important person on this farm (after both of us) and the professional relationship that we have with her and her practice (other Vets) is paramount.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,181 ✭✭✭ Lady Haywire


    kerry cow wrote: »
    veterinary staff are not allowed dispense out antibiotics to a farmer , its the vet that should dispense it , but we see all over the country , the counter assistant dispensing , so it ok for the vet to be in his van on the road , all awhile his girl in the office giving out the antibiotics but a licenced merchant cannt do what he has been doing for years with vaccines and dosing

    so I hope you understand what I am saying and if not please do say and I can repeat it again .
    vets secretary's are not allowed dispense antibiotics , its the vet that needs to be onsite to do that .

    its a conflict of interest , the situation we are in and its anti competitive and infact vets shouldn't be allowed prescribe and supply , it unethical really .
    but its all about money and the farm organisation should be ashamed of them selves .

    I'm pretty sure (not certain) that the 'girl in the office' in my vets has done a course or something similar which allows her to dispense the medicines. There's certainly some cert up with her name on it. Will look closer next time.
    And I tell you what, she's as good as any vet, better than a couple I've known in fact. The other 'secretary' is a veterinary nurse. In fact, the only one which I know nothing about is a man who works behind the counter.
    As it is, there's usually a vet in the back doing small animals anyway so if you didn't want the girl serving, I'm sure you could be ignorant & take them away from a spaying or something to sell you something.
    I buy our wormers etc from the vets, unless they don't have what I want. Why? Because they offer a service I require 24/7 & am glad to pay for. You mustn't have a very good working relationship built up with yours when you're stooping to name calling.


  • Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭ Westernrock


    Cattlepen wrote: »
    Sorry but the vet is NOT expected to do a section for free. They charge a fee and are hopefully paid. The 3 am in the morning bit goes with the job.
    Tb testing has been a testimonial for vets for years and now, as the other poster has said, they want the workers and vaccines to themselves. No deals to be done for these products anymore

    Good luck when the corporate companies take over and you have to pay what it really costs for your section at 3am!! The fact that you think it goes with the job is testament to the vets in this country who put the healthcare system to shame day in day out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,295 ✭✭✭ endainoz


    Base price wrote: »
    AFAIK it's more to do with cattle/sheep doses
    https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/department-urged-to-protect-agri-stores-from-veterinary-medicine-supply-changes/
    Edit to add - when I asked our Vet recently about this new legislation she said that there would be no charge for issuing a prescription. As I have stated previously, our Vet is the third most important person on this farm (after both of us) and the professional relationship that we have with her and her practice (other Vets) is paramount.

    It just seems like the OP has an issue with their local vet. I get on great with my own vets too, especially in my earlier farming days when I admittedly didn't have 5% of the knowledge I have now. They were always very understanding, and while they may be expensive their service is always been fantastic.

    When I went into them about doing a health plan which was required for organics, they were very enthusiastic and we're more than happy to help.


  • Registered Users Posts: 282 ✭✭ Westernrock


    Cattlepen wrote: »
    Sorry but the vet is NOT expected to do a section for free. They charge a fee and are hopefully paid. The 3 am in the morning bit goes with the job.
    Tb testing has been a testimonial for vets for years and now, as the other poster has said, they want the workers and vaccines to themselves. No deals to be done for these products anymore

    Good luck when the corporate companies take over and you have to pay what it really costs for your section at 3am!! The fact that you think it goes with the job is testament to the vets in this country who put the healthcare system to shame day in day out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,300 kerry cow


    endainoz wrote:
    It just seems like the OP has an issue with their local vet. I get on great with my own vets too, especially in my earlier farming days when I admittedly didn't have 5% of the knowledge I have now. They were always very understanding, and while they may be expensive their service is always been fantastic.


    don't have a issue with my vet .


  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭ Donegalforever


    kerry cow wrote: »
    looks like our new minister of agriculture ,sees an end insight for the eradication of TB , dont worry the vets won't go hungry .they are going to continue to feed off the farmers , with the axe falling on the licenced merchants ,

    yet it has been good enough for them to service us all the years gone .
    its the veterinary club looking after each other and seeing the TB gravy train will finish up .
    so it a case of tie up the dosing and the vaccine market .

    how have our farm representatives allowed this is beyond me , how weak we are represented .

    There is no doubt the cost of "medicines" from Veterinary practices will be a lot higher than from licensed merchants.

    For example from my own experience, Spirovac collected from a Veterinary practice was €88.
    The same item was €50 from a large licensed merchants.

    I think the vets could play a bit fairer and still make a good profit.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,300 kerry cow


    ganmo wrote:
    The 'girl at the counter' is a vet nurse. So just like how nurses are allowed to prescribe certain drugs so are vet nurses.

    ganmo wrote:
    What vaccines are POM? I thought merchants didnt handle the special ones solely down to the short shelf life.

    not all the counter staff are vet nurses ,

    bovi vac S is a vaccine that needs a POM

    rotovac corona is another .


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,300 kerry cow


    endainoz wrote:
    "Vets secretaries, his girl in the office?" Christ man is your vet from the 1950s or what? Plenty of female vets out there, and most I've dealt with are better than the men. You still haven't said where you heard this news. If you can link an article I'd happily look at it.


    firstly , I didn't discount any female vets , they are equally , better than their male counter part ,

    secondly , I was making the piont that their are many girls or boys deepening who are not vets or pharmacist and just because you have a licence merchants course done and just because the vet who might happen to be out of the office in his van 6 miles away ,doesn't give that office person the right to dispense a prescription .

    and once I link the legislation , you can then apologise for jumping all over me , and if I can nt link it , then I will reciprocate it .


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭ Dinzee Conlee


    There is no doubt the cost of "medicines" from Veterinary practices will be a lot higher than from licensed merchants.

    For example from my own experience, Spirovac collected from a Veterinary practice was €88.
    The same item was €50 from a large licensed merchants.

    I think the vets could play a bit fairer and still make a good profit.

    It always makes me smile when I read things like this...

    We say vets are too expensive. They should be the same price as the big merchants...

    But then, we go ape**** at consumers going to the big supermarkets to buy steaks when they are on offer - we cry foul, and say the supermarket is selling too cheap...
    We say people should go to their local butcher...

    :);)

    As to the OP - I don’t know the detail of the incoming changes. I do think vets in his country don’t get paid much for what’s a hard job, and the service they provide...


  • Registered Users Posts: 746 ✭✭✭ omicron


    There is no doubt the cost of "medicines" from Veterinary practices will be a lot higher than from licensed merchants.

    For example from my own experience, Spirovac collected from a Veterinary practice was €88.
    The same item was €50 from a large licensed merchants.

    I think the vets could play a bit fairer and still make a good profit.

    Vet practice is probably buying it in for a lot more than the coop is selling it. Drug companies give the licenced merchants etc massive discounts to stock their vaccine instead of the competitors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,407 ✭✭✭ Sheep breeder


    kerry cow wrote: »
    veterinary staff are not allowed dispense out antibiotics to a farmer , its the vet that should dispense it , but we see all over the country , the counter assistant dispensing , so it ok for the vet to be in his van on the road , all awhile his girl in the office giving out the antibiotics but a licenced merchant cannt do what he has been doing for years with vaccines and dosing

    so I hope you understand what I am saying and if not please do say and I can repeat it again .
    vets secretary's are not allowed dispense antibiotics , its the vet that needs to be onsite to do that .

    its a conflict of interest , the situation we are in and its anti competitive and infact vets shouldn't be allowed prescribe and supply , it unethical really .
    but its all about money and the farm organisation should be ashamed of them selves .

    Do you not get on with your vet or what, as for getting drugs from the vet nurse seems to be up setting you, no body is over using drugs at today’s cost.


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,747 ✭✭✭ ganmo


    The move to get corporate money into vet practices I believe is the result of a certain Barron...I've been told he has invested in a large practice in kildare. And I wouldn't be surprised if the same practice is developing an online shop to jump.on the proposed change


  • Registered Users Posts: 287 ✭✭ Coolfresian


    The vet is the most important person to your farm. We are very lucky to have the veterinary service we have in this country. Not sure how lads expect to be able to call on a vet at any time of the day or night for just the call out fee. If there was no tb testing or likewise I doubt we d have vets to call on. For the service we get, the cost is great value.


  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭ Donegalforever


    It always makes me smile when I read things like this...

    We say vets are too expensive. They should be the same price as the big merchants...

    But then, we go ape**** at consumers going to the big supermarkets to buy steaks when they are on offer - we cry foul, and say the supermarket is selling too cheap...
    We say people should go to their local butcher...

    :);)

    As to the OP - I don’t know the detail of the incoming changes. I do think vets in his country don’t get paid much for what’s a hard job, and the service they provide...

    I never said that Vets are generally too expensive.
    I pointed out the excessive mark-up I encountered.
    In the example I gave the Vet was 76% more expensive that the Merchant.
    Can that be justified? I doubt not.
    (Perhaps you are not smiling to yourself now).


  • Registered Users Posts: 405 ✭✭ Donegalforever


    omicron wrote: »
    Vet practice is probably buying it in for a lot more than the coop is selling it. Drug companies give the licenced merchants etc massive discounts to stock their vaccine instead of the competitors.

    Where the Vets are part of a large group they should be in a good bargaining position.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,053 ✭✭✭ Dinzee Conlee


    I never said that Vets are generally too expensive.
    I pointed out the excessive mark-up I encountered.
    In the example I gave the Vet was 76% more expensive that the Merchant.
    Can that be justified? I doubt not.
    (Perhaps you are not smiling to yourself now).

    No - still smiling - see :):)

    I take your point - we should shop around, shop at large merchants and not use local vets as they are too expensive...

    Another smiley there for kicks... :)


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