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Green Party questioning Travellers intelligence?

Piehead

This seems outrageous and discriminatory

https://m.independent.ie/news/green-party-activists-told-dont-use-big-words-when-talking-to-rural-voters-and-travellers-39583179.html

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[Deleted User]

Gruffalux wrote: »

You don't think country people know what the words sustainable or biodiversity means? You think they might vibe better with people canvassing on their doorstep saying "Arrah muckie, you wouldn't be seeing much of the wee robins about the heads of cattle these days, wisha" ?

I grew up in a rural village and I never once heard anyone talking about biodiversity. Do I think every country person knows exactly what they mean? Not a chance, I'm sure almost everyone could figure it out quickly but you're not going to connect with your audience that way.

It's hard to take this thread seriously tbh, if a green party person called round to any of the usual people here and starting talking to them about biodiversity they'd be straight away online afterwards starting a thread going on about how out of touch with the common farmer the green party are. Any excuse here just to have a go at them

Gruffalux

colm_mcm wrote: »

I know what those words mean, and the concept - Id have no idea about the nuts and bolts of either.

I’d be totally disengaged if a canvasser started spouting those words unless they could relate them to my day to day life.
Much as in the same way if FG started talking about “recovery” a few years ago without actually explaining how that would be done, and how it would affect me and my area.

Okay. Fair enough. You want all political people to dumb down the language when refering to all areas of civic, economic and political life. At least that is consistent. In the long run it will reinforce an elitist oligarchy ruling over the feudal peasants but sure it's been done before many a time when literacy or the art of writing was kept from the lower classes. Encore une fois! This time it will be better!

Gods Gift

Biodiversity is someone who can change genders ain’t it.

colm_mcm

Gruffalux wrote: »

You don't think country people know what the words sustainable or biodiversity means? You think they might vibe better with people canvassing on their doorstep saying "Arrah muckie, you wouldn't be seeing much of the wee robins about the heads of cattle these days, wisha" ?

I know what those words mean, and the concept - Id have no idea about the nuts and bolts of either.

I’d be totally disengaged if a canvasser started spouting those words unless they could relate them to my day to day life.
Much as in the same way if FG started talking about “recovery” a few years ago without actually explaining how that would be done, and how it would affect me and my area.

TheBlackPill

Fighting Tao wrote: »

Hmm. She was explaining to others how to communicate with certain groups. How would you have phrased it?

Please modify your speech to the target audience.. there nobody insulted or patronised. Fianna Fail canvassers have this down to a fine art.. all things to all men

Gruffalux

jackboy wrote: »

She didn’t say or imply that. You are twisting her words.

Using words like biodiversity and sustainability is just waffle. If talking to a landowner just come out and tell them the things they can do to help wildlife thrive and protect the environment. As they know the land better than anyone they can likely teach just as much as they can learn.

But they can just not use big words apparently.

seligehgit

Everlong1 wrote: »

I can't speak with any authority about our rural cousins even though my parents were culchies. However I was born and raised in Dublin and learned on my first day in the school playground that this country is full of knuckle draggers who regard anyone using words with more than one syllable with suspicion at best and hostility at worst.

A lot of Irish people pride themselves on being "down to earth" and having "no airs and graces". I worked with one of these lovely individuals once who used to rant about "fuc*ing intellectuals" and their big words. These are the type of people who think Brendan O'Carroll is comedy gold.

You can call Senator Garvey patronising but what she said sounded like simple common sense to me. The only thing she did wrong was to be a bit blunt and tell it like it is.

How can you not speak for country people?

Surely you're not that insulated in your locality.

You have a point in that there are a cohort of anti intellectuals in the entirety of the country who have a dislike for big word individuals " the so called and on occasion self important intelligentsia " etc but not just rural Ireland.

jackboy

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

No your message was just incorrectly applied in this instance. She basically implied that travellers and rural people are too thick and ignorant to understand the big phrases that urban dwellers use so they need to dumb down the message. If you can't see how that is an issue then maybe look again

She didn’t say or imply that. You are twisting her words.

Using words like biodiversity and sustainability is just waffle. If talking to a landowner just come out and tell them the things they can do to help wildlife thrive and protect the environment. As they know the land better than anyone they can likely teach just as much as they can learn.

Gruffalux

Amirani wrote: »

They're subjectively loaded words, they don't mean the same thing to everyone.

Just because you say they are subjectively loaded words does not make it true. Biodiversity and sustainable are objective words to most. Biodiversity means diversity of living things - scientifically, objectively. Sustainable means that it can be continued without harm or loss. Again objective. Any local here in the wilds who may not even have finished school has more factual experience in their big toe about the reality of biodiversity and sustainability than could be found in the whole brains of people who never track in their wellies day in day out across the fields and hills and boglands. If the words have a subjective loading perhaps the very people who have traded on the words politically, economically etc. for such a long and profitable time are the ones responsible for that?

Gervais08

Gruffalux wrote: »

Puts me in mind of a story I will probably never be able to find the source of again. A person in court told the judge "he came in through the window, yer honour, and done a sh1te on me dinner". Ah, simpler times when one could still freely enter others houses.

I believe that was in the first draft of Juno and the Paycock!

suicide_circus

She probably wasn't entirely wrong but you'd hope anyone on your team communicating to the plebs would know to moderate their style depending on the audience. If they were canvassing inner city Dublin corpo flats they'd have to do the same.

Everlong1

I can't speak with any authority about our rural cousins even though my parents were culchies. However I was born and raised in Dublin and learned on my first day in the school playground that this country is full of knuckle draggers who regard anyone using words with more than one syllable with suspicion at best and hostility at worst.

A lot of Irish people pride themselves on being "down to earth" and having "no airs and graces". I worked with one of these lovely individuals once who used to rant about "fuc*ing intellectuals" and their big words. These are the type of people who think Brendan O'Carroll is comedy gold.

You can call Senator Garvey patronising but what she said sounded like simple common sense to me. The only thing she did wrong was to be a bit blunt and tell it like it is.

Amirani

Gruffalux wrote: »

You don't think country people know what the words sustainable or biodiversity means? You think they might vibe better with people canvassing on their doorstep saying "Arrah muckie, you wouldn't be seeing much of the wee robins about the heads of cattle these days, wisha" ?

They're subjectively loaded words, they don't mean the same thing to everyone.

ProfessorPlum

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

No your message was just incorrectly applied in this instance. She basically implied that travellers and rural people are too thick and ignorant to understand the big phrases that urban dwellers use so they need to dumb down the message. If you can't see how that is an issue then maybe look again

Seems the poster is good on the theory of communications, but has yet to get to the practical module.

Fuascailteoir

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

Well then her communication of her ideas on how to communicate with rural people and travellers is not exactly going to endear the party to the target audience. They can't help scoring own goals whenever they do anything.

No your message was just incorrectly applied in this instance. She basically implied that travellers and rural people are too thick and ignorant to understand the big phrases that urban dwellers use so they need to dumb down the message. If you can't see how that is an issue then maybe look again

Gruffalux

Omackeral wrote: »

Sh1te in the bucket is positively Joycean.

Puts me in mind of a story I will probably never be able to find the source of again. A person in court told the judge "he came in through the window, yer honour, and done a sh1te on me dinner". Ah, simpler times when one could still freely enter others houses.

[Deleted User]

Madeoface wrote: »

All the footage of the traveller infighting and feuding in Mullingar and Drogheda etc doesn't show a proficiency in the language to be fair.

Sh1te in the bucket is positively Joycean.

Gruffalux

riffmongous wrote: »

Nothing wrong with that tbh.

You don't think country people know what the words sustainable or biodiversity means? You think they might vibe better with people canvassing on their doorstep saying "Arrah muckie, you wouldn't be seeing much of the wee robins about the heads of cattle these days, wisha" ?

TheBlackPill

Madeoface wrote: »

All the footage of the traveller infighting and feuding in Mullingar and Drogheda etc doesn't show a proficiency in the language to be fair.

Has the OP some insight that simplicity is not the way to go with this cohort or is the OP's view they are all reading Albert Camus in the evening or arguing about the merits of the EU's carbon tax policy?

Why the greens want to communicate with this insular lot at all shows how naïve and too 'right on' they are.

Breaking news,"Green party canvassers to challenge travellers to bare knuckle boxing matches to get their votes"

TheBlackPill

screamer wrote: »

I agree the younger Green Party members would have us all running around in Aran jumpers, walking to work barefoot or subsistence living off the vegetable patch, chicken and goat in the back garden. They are totally out of touch with reality.

As for what this one said, saying you have to use little words when dealing with travellers and country folk is very very patronising and insulting, and just shows that she needs a good lesson in communications herself.

While the older green party members ride off into the sunset with their ministerial pensions, giving a token nod to being green with their bicycle businesses of questionable economic viability.

Madeoface

All the footage of the traveller infighting and feuding in Mullingar and Drogheda etc doesn't show a proficiency in the language to be fair.

Has the OP some insight that simplicity is not the way to go with this cohort or is the OP's view they are all reading Albert Camus in the evening or arguing about the merits of the EU's carbon tax policy?

Why the greens want to communicate with this insular lot at all shows how naïve and too 'right on' they are.

Pkiernan

Heres some small words for the GINO wokeflakes...

Feed In Tarrifs.

Where are they?

[Deleted User]

"If you start engaging with people and you're using - even the word sustainable or biodiversity - this is vocabulary that's new stuff and we shouldn't assume that people understand what they are.

"Let's talk about the flowers, talk about the cattle. Talk about the robin, the sparrow…

"I think colloquialism is important and I think simple vocabulary includes everybody.

"It's not your job to show off that you know cool terms when you’re canvassing. It's to show that you can relate to everybody," she said.

Nothing wrong with that tbh.

Fighting Tao

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's the patronising manner they've done out with this is where people take exception. Bunch of arrogant pseudo-intellectuals

Hmm. She was explaining to others how to communicate with certain groups. How would you have phrased it?

seligehgit

Odhinn wrote: »

And not just towards travellers

Is it any wonder they have an issue with attracting rural voters when they come out with patronising guff like this?:rolleyes:

[Deleted User]

Fighting Tao wrote: »

People get their knickers in a twist so easily these days.

Communication is only effective if the receiver understands the message. For example, there is no point in an IT expert using technical jargon to those who don’t understand. They have to change words and rephrase into such a manner to assist the message transmission. It is up to the message sender to ensure that the receiver can understand. From all I see here, that is what is going on.

I'm pretty sure it's the patronising manner they've done out with this is where people take exception. Bunch of arrogant pseudo-intellectuals

[Deleted User]

I know what they mean. I'd be the same with anyone who actually votes for these spoofers

colm_mcm

Headline of article is misleading to be fair. She used working with Travellers as an example where you need to relate to the people you’re interacting with, and one size doesn’t fit all.
Of course as soon as Travellers are mentioned, it’ll get jumped on.

I’m not a fan of the Green Party or anything, but this is just bad reporting.

Fighting Tao

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

Well then her communication of her ideas on how to communicate with rural people and travellers is not exactly going to endear the party to the target audience. They can't help scoring own goals whenever they do anything.

It looks like the message I sent wasn’t clear enough or used the right language.

screamer

I agree the younger Green Party members would have us all running around in Aran jumpers, walking to work barefoot or subsistence living off the vegetable patch, chicken and goat in the back garden. They are totally out of touch with reality.

As for what this one said, saying you have to use little words when dealing with travellers and country folk is very very patronising and insulting, and just shows that she needs a good lesson in communications herself.