Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

I smell the lawsuit of all lawsuits.

Edit: ^ wtf is wrong with you?

Looking at the French reactions, both social and political, to the further restrictions imposed in Marseille, would make you jealous of a real democracy.

Where are the alternative voices in Ireland.

We have bribed the young with an 'emergency payment' going on for over 6 months, we have terrified the old by pumping out hysterical propaganda 24/7 on the state broadcaster and the middle-classes have been sheltered (for the moment) from having to pay for the 10's of billions we are currently borrowing.

The smart amongst us have already figured out what is coming, the rest will find out soon enough. The current approach is reckless in the extreme. When the young find out their futures have been mortgaged when the old find out their pensions and savings have been destroyed by inflation and when the bill is presented to the middle-classes it will already be too late.

With our young population and island location we were the best placed country in Europe to deal with Covid - we will come out of it most likely the worst.

facehugger99 wrote: »

Looking at the French reactions, both social and political, to the further restrictions imposed in Marseille, would make you jealous of a real democracy.

Where are the alternative voices in Ireland.

We have bribed the young with an 'emergency payment' going on for over 6 months, we have terrified the old by pumping out hysterical propaganda 24/7 on the state broadcaster and the middle-classes have been sheltered (for the moment) from having to pay for the 10's of billions we are currently borrowing.

The smart amongst us have already figured out what is coming, the rest will find out soon enough. The current approach is reckless in the extreme. When the young find out their futures have been mortgaged when the old find out their pensions and savings have been destroyed by inflation and when the bill is presented to the middle-classes it will already be too late.

With our young population and island location we were the best placed country in Europe to deal with Covid - we will come out of it most likely the worst.

Pensions go up and down with recessions. Smart people cashed out in Feb when you saw Italy.

People really hurt by it are the people about to retire.

hmmm wrote: »

Not wanting hospitals to be overwhelmed means I am a "one issue voter"?

I take it then that you are happy to see hospitals being overwhelmed, because otherwise that makes no sense.

Again you demonstrate your lack of understanding of a complex situation, getting tunnel vision will do that.

Nobody is talking about letting covid run free or letting hospitals get overwhelmed, most people have a little more nuance in their thinking than that simplistic rhetoric. But thats the problem with the people who have bought into the fear and hysteria narrative, they become those single issue voters and lose their perspective on what else is possible.

Believing that there is another path through this pandemic is not the same as saying that we throw the vulnerable to the wolves, if you understood that perhaps there could be a discussion. That would require some honesty however.

Assetbacked wrote: »

Over 400 cases and no deaths is fantastic news. That continues to push the death rate down towards 0%. For weeks we have had hundreds of daily cases and deaths are on the floor, at or close to 0 consistently. We will be vindicated that post-lockdown has been a total OTT reaction to the whole thing.

Think u will have to wait till xmas for that

I think we'd all love some transparency tbh. Unfortunately they seem to be taking the approach that the public can't be trusted with the truth.

The future seems to me to be, lockdown, open up, lockdown, open up until a vaccine arrives or the virus mutates to a non fatal version.

Anyway, does anyone know why China and other places to our East are sailing through this now with no spikes and no lockdowns now and have been for some time?

Assetbacked wrote: »

Over 400 cases and no deaths is fantastic news. That continues to push the death rate down towards 0%. For weeks we have had hundreds of daily cases and deaths are on the floor, at or close to 0 consistently. We will be vindicated that post-lockdown has been a total OTT reaction to the whole thing.

The death rate is a lagging indicator. The most important one for government is hospitalisations - because that's where capacity is constrained.

If government can be blamed for anything its not building capacity in the health service between waves. That said, its hard when both the people and facilities don't exist and are in high demand globally.

The nay-sayers are going to feel vindicated either way, they always do. They will say that if cases don't rise that the measures weren't required despite them not rising as a result of the restrictions. If it gets out of hand, they will blame the government for imposing ineffectual restrictions. They can't lose.

Democracy muzzled

[Deleted User] wrote: »

which side, with potentially thousands of lives and dozens of thousands who may take long term harm from covid on the line, do you think a govt should lean towards?

assume that there is a very high bar set before any knowledge can be accepted as certain.

i submit that a govt leans very strongly towards the side of caution

individuals can lean any way they like, i suppose. individuals that have to worry about their jobs or businesses will naturally be swayed away from the public good overall, individuals as a rule behave differently to well-functioning govts.

thank goodness

Unfortunately, we don't have a well functioning government.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The death rate is a lagging indicator.

When the death rate was zero I asked the question of what that lag was but never got a solid answer. In February and March deaths followed cases very quickly, in March and April it was a matter of weeks.

When the death rate was effectively zero we were told that it didn't matter because if cases rose the deaths would follow, a lagging indicator as you say. But people wouldn't tell me what that lag was. One guy tried to say it was months, although that just raised the pesky question of why people were dying from the virus in March...

Cases have been rising steadily since the start of August, and yet the death rate continues to be statistically low. So again I ask, what is a reasonable lagging period for these deaths?

My condolences to all who have lost family to this virus, and if the death rate starts to spiral again I will have no problem acknowledging that and admitting that I misjudged. But it has been months and the death rate continues to be remarkably low, so where are the hundreds of deaths that were supposed to have followed these thousands of cases?

If it gets out of hand, they will blame the government for imposing ineffectual restrictions. They can't lose.

If what gets out of hand? Cases or deaths? Because one is more important than the other, yet it seems that isn't the one that gets all the focus.

Again, why are China, Korea, Japan and places in that part of the world sailing on without a care in the world and no spikes and so on.

Just hope we will reach that in time.

bucketybuck wrote: »

When the death rate was zero I asked the question of what that lag was but never got a solid answer. In February and March deaths followed cases very quickly, in March and April it was a matter of weeks.

When the death rate was effectively zero we were told that it didn't matter because if cases rose the deaths would follow, a lagging indicator as you say. But people wouldn't tell me what that lag was. One guy tried to say it was months, although that just raised the pesky question of why people were dying from the virus in March...

Cases have been rising steadily since the start of August, and yet the death rate continues to be statistically low. So again I ask, what is a reasonable lagging period for these deaths?

My condolences to all who have lost family to this virus, and if the death rate starts to spiral again I will have no problem acknowledging that and admitting that I misjudged. But it has been months and the death rate continues to be remarkably low, so where are the hundreds of deaths that were supposed to have followed these thousands of cases?



If what gets out of hand? Cases or deaths? Because one is more important than the other, yet it seems that isn't the one that gets all the focus.

I believe, and I'm working from memory here is that it that death lags hospitalisations by about a month, and hospitalisations lag cases by two to three weeks. The rate of hospitalisation and death has remained low in this second wave as it has been kept out of at risk populations - which we should see as a success. The problem is that if it becomes established in the community, these low lying islands of isolation will be swamped by the tide of the disease.


If we let that tide come in, hospitalisations will get out of hand and it will result naturally in increased mortality.