How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Icyseanfitz · 27-09-2020 09:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Imagine all those believers in unfounded conspiracy theories don’t believe this unfounded conspiracy theory

Oh come on, there isn't a peep about schools in the news, particularly glaring considering if any other sector so much as farts with a bit of covid it's all over the headlines, not schools though, sure it doesn't exist in schools, tis all from home :rolleyes: those pesky wet pubs and anti maskers are to blame.

khalessi · 27-09-2020 09:21PM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Oh come on, there isn't a peep about schools in the news, particularly glaring considering if any other sector so much as farts with a bit of covid it's all over the headlines, not schools though, sure it doesn't exist in schools, tis all from home :rolleyes: those pesky wet pubs and anti maskers are to blame.

The only newspaper to report on schools has been The Sun which everyone will disregard as it is a redtop

Will Yam · 27-09-2020 09:25PM

khalessi wrote: »

horrible situation. Glad you are ok. I have told my colleagues if I need a test I will text them. Secrecy stigmatises this.

I am waiting on test results. Under no circumstances will I tell any of my acquaintances of that as it would spook a lot of them and put the wind up them unnecessarily.

irishblessing · 27-09-2020 09:25PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Not so. There are cases being detected in school children, resulting in contact tracing which would detect asymptomatic cases which would have been missed before. This would result in an increased rate in these age groups, even if some are missed. Remember, from the data shared previously 2100 tests from close contacts in schools, produced 35 positives. We here how up to 10% of close contacts test positive, yet 35/2100 does not equal 10%

Okay, gotcha. When you say "we hear how up to 10% of close contacts test positive... does not equal 10% ..." how are you equating that whether or not schools are drivers? Does it necessarily matter whether schools are main drivers of the virus rather than an environment of moderate risk? Earlier this year we were advised to keep our children separate from their grandparents, and indeed many are shielding from each other again now that school has started again. Either children are spreaders, or they're not. Then you have the WHO and ECDC saying that children 10 years of age and older spread the virus at least as well as adults do. Schools are only just back and cases are taking off again. The HSE has some dodgy testing/tracing/quarantine procedures. It doesn't all add up.

Funsterdelux · 27-09-2020 09:27PM

Just got email from my son's school. A positive case in 5/6th class, he's in 2nd. Its a country school in North Cork, didnt think it would be here so soon.

irishblessing · 27-09-2020 09:27PM

Will Yam wrote: »

I am waiting on test results. Under no circumstances will I tell any of my acquaintances of that as it would spook a lot of them and put the wind up them unnecessarily.

This statement right here makes me so very glad I work from the safety of my own home at this time. I really feel for others having to work with selfish individuals on a daily basis.

wirelessdude01 · 27-09-2020 09:28PM

khalessi wrote: »

The only newspaper to report on schools has been The Sun which everyone will disregard as it is a redtop

I was amazed that the school closure in Celbridge wasn't reported on the evening news. I know there was a short article on examiner.ie about it.

Will Yam · 27-09-2020 09:29PM

irishblessing wrote: »

This statement right here makes me so very glad I work from the safety of my own home at this time. I really feel for others having to work with selfish individuals on a daily basis.

What’s selfish about meeting nobody and not telling anyone until test results are back, one way or the other?

khalessi · 27-09-2020 09:30PM

Funsterdelux wrote: »

Just got email from my son's school. A positive case in 5/6th class, he's in 2nd. Its a country school in North Cork, didnt think it would be here so soon.

Hope it doesnt spread and all involved get well soon.

I was just looking at the FB site which now has over 68,000 parents on it. Sad thing is I am watching it for cases in my kids school and in mine, as I reckon I will see cases in my school there first before being told about them.

wirelessdude01 · 27-09-2020 09:31PM

Will Yam wrote: »

I am waiting on test results. Under no circumstances will I tell any of my acquaintances of that as it would spook a lot of them and put the wind up them unnecessarily.

Even our principal told us when they were going for a test. We'd worked it out anyway but we appreciated being kept in the loop. I'm in their staff bubble so would have been a close contact of they'd tested positive.

Will Yam · 27-09-2020 09:32PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Even our principal told us when they were going for a test. We'd worked it out anyway but we appreciated being kept in the loop. I'm in their staff bubble so would have been a close contact of they'd tested positive.

Out of curiousity, what behavioural changes resulted while awaiting the results?

irishblessing · 27-09-2020 09:33PM

Will Yam wrote: »

What’s selfish about meeting nobody and not telling anyone until test results are back, one way or the other?

So you haven't been in regular (the criteria HSE would deem as a close contact) with your 'acquaintances' then? So why are you under the impression they would be "wound up unnecessarily?"

irishblessing · 27-09-2020 09:34PM

Will Yam wrote: »

Out of curiousity, what behavioural changes resulted while awaiting the results?

Assuming responsibilities may need to be delegated so a plan would need to be in place in the event of quarantine or illness.

wirelessdude01 · 27-09-2020 09:35PM

Will Yam wrote: »

Out of curiousity, what behavioural changes resulted while awaiting the results?

For me, I didn't go to the staffroom for a few days. Outside of school I'm keeping my circle very small at the moment anyway so it didn't need any changes.

Will Yam · 27-09-2020 09:36PM

irishblessing wrote: »

So you haven't been in regular (the criteria HSE would deem as a close contact) with your 'acquaintances' then? So why are you under the impression they would be "wound up unnecessarily?"

No. And some of them have underlying conditions so no point in upsetting them as I won’t meet them anyway. And I’m being tested as a close contact of someone who it now appears just has a cold, but we shall wait and see.

Will Yam · 27-09-2020 09:38PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

For me, I didn't go to the staffroom for a few days. Outside of school I'm keeping my circle very small at the moment anyway so it didn't need any changes.

Sensible. That’s broadly what I’m doing. I don’t think you can get a test simply if you are a contact of someone who is getting a test, so no point in either meeting acquaintances or telling them until the all clear.

khalessi · 27-09-2020 09:38PM

Will Yam wrote: »

I am waiting on test results. Under no circumstances will I tell any of my acquaintances of that as it would spook a lot of them and put the wind up them unnecessarily.

We are all different but my colleagues and myself discussed it and it is what we decided to do.

wirelessdude01 · 27-09-2020 09:39PM

Will Yam wrote: »

No. And some of them have underlying conditions so no point in upsetting them as I won’t meet them anyway. And I’m being tested as a close contact of someone who it now appears just has a cold, but we shall wait and see.

Hold on a minute. You should only be tested as a close contact of someone who has tested positive.This makes no sense.

27-09-2020 09:40PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Okay, gotcha. When you say "we hear how up to 10% of close contacts test positive... does not equal 10% ..." how are you equating that whether or not schools are drivers? Does it necessarily matter whether schools are main drivers of the virus rather than an environment of moderate risk? Earlier this year we were advised to keep our children separate from their grandparents, and indeed many are shielding from each other again now that school has started again. Either children are spreaders, or they're not. Then you have the WHO and ECDC saying that children 10 years of age and older spread the virus at least as well as adults do. Schools are only just back and cases are taking off again. The HSE has some dodgy testing/tracing/quarantine procedures. It doesn't all add up.

Gotcha? Wtf. I don’t know why you though you got.

Follow the data and apply logic. The rate in school age people is not increasing relative to other age groups. They are in a controlled environment meaning they are more likely to be identified in contact tracing than most other places bar their own home, and even if sufficient numbers are not being identified as contacts, those that are will be those closest and therefore most at risk and the data would shift. The indicators are that the school return has been a relative, though not unqualified success, driven by the efforts of all involved, and hampered by a lack of clarity over how the system works.

irishblessing · 27-09-2020 09:40PM

Will Yam wrote: »

No. And some of them have underlying conditions so no point in upsetting them as I won’t meet them anyway. And I’m being tested as a close contact of someone who it now appears just has a cold, but we shall wait and see.

Well then that's a bit presumptuous to say they would be "wound up unnecessarily" if you don't meet with them ordinarily.

If you're being tested though, are you in quarantine until you have the results?

delly · 27-09-2020 09:41PM

18/19 years olds starting college - "This is a risky environment, please commence remote learning for at least the next 2 weeks as we monitor the situation."

17/18 year olds in 6th year - "Schools are a safe space for students, please continue to attend your small classroom with your fellow 25 students."

Media Reports - "Positive test rates continue to rise throughout the month of September, for now we can't identify any pattern for this rise, however people are urged to reduce their social contacts."

irishblessing · 27-09-2020 09:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Gotcha? Wtf. I don’t know why you though you got.

Follow the data and apply logic. The rate in school age people is not increasing relative to other age groups. They are in a controlled environment meaning they are more likely to be identified in contact tracing than most other places bar their own home, and even if sufficient numbers are not being identified as contacts, those that are will be those closest and therefore most at risk and the data would shift. The indicators are that the school return has been a relative, though not unqualified success, driven by the efforts of all involved, and hampered by a lack of clarity over how the system works.

Jesus, calm down. Wtf yourself. I understood where you were coming from in the first part of that previous comment. Schools are 100% not controlled environments. Do you even have kids?

irishblessing · 27-09-2020 09:47PM

Anyone else read this yet? Long, but worth a read.

As a teacher we have been given guidelines but the reality on the ground is a completely different matter. The following is a post from a school principal about what happened when he had his first positive case in his school. It was originally addressed to fellow principals informing them of how things are actually happening with the HSE.

My experience of having our first positive Covid case

Dear Colleagues,

I have decided to write this message to you, although the sun is shining and perhaps wiser for me personally to take a walk instead. However, I thought it essential that I share my experience this week….
On Tuesday, a parent contacted the office to inform us that their child had a positive Covid test. One of our secretaries thanked her for informing us, but assured the parent it would in fact be the HSE that would be in touch with them and indeed any close contacts, etc. etc.

I decided to call the IPPN office and was advised to contact the regional HSE helpline so as to alert them to the case and hopefully ‘it would get moved along quicker’. I also asked if IPPN had received feedback from other schools and was reassured by the person’s positive response to my question, despite the contrary views expressed on this network by some principals. So I started the process with hope and relative calmness…
I rang the HSE helpdesk and was told that someone would ring me back. Later, at home, I got a call from a doctor from the helpline who quickly deemed that only the POD should be sent home and that the other PODS and class teacher were ‘casual’ rather the ‘close’ contacts. No questions were asked about the size of the classroom, the closeness of the pods from one another. It was just confirm that there was a bubble and pod system in place. I have since this evening received an apology from the HSE Regional Centre stating that today their team has now created questions to ask principals in order to further contextualise each case presenting.

I was asked to send in the names of the close contacts (other pod members) on an incredibly cumbersome excel spreadsheet they sent me. I asked when would these parents be contacted and could they guarantee that they would be before the next school day. They informed me by phone and later by email that it could take up to 24 hours to make initial contact.

After further contact, where they said it may well be 48 hours, I was left with no option but to call the parents affected myself or otherwise they would return to school the next day. In fact, it took over 48 hours for the HSE to make initial contact, after a further three phone calls from me, asking why it was taking so long. Each time, a nice person on the end of the line, with an apology and saying they needed more resources….

I would like to thank Pairic from IPPN and John Boyle from INTO for both returning my call most promptly and listening to my story.
However, I have so many concerns and questions that remain unanswered, the following being the most important?
- Where is the fast track testing service for staff and children we were promised before we returned to school?
- Why does the HSA return to work form specify clearly what a close contact is (i.e. within 2 metres, for more than 15 mins, on one given day) but DES Return to work form leaves this out?
- How, on the one hand, are we told by the HSE to not get involved with contacting close contacts and by another arm of the HSE specifically asking us to do so?
- How can a class teacher be deemed a casual contact and indeed the other PODS in the room without a thorough and comprehensive risk assessment by a health expert?
- When will the IPPN and the INTO say publicly ‘ENOUGH IS ENOUGH’ and prioritise our safety? If the HSE can’t keep us safe, why are we open? It seems that it is much easier to be deemed a close contact outside of a school context than within….the HSE website proves this point perfectly in their section on contacts. How can the bodies we pay to represent us allow this to continue?
- Do we have to wait for a pupil or staff member or a close relative to die before those in power admit that schools are indeed being treated entirely different from other sectors?

This is my first ever email of this type….just not me normally. I also contacted TDs for the first time in my life too to express my complete disbelief in this week’s events.
I am asking you, to not do what I have done so often on this network to read and move on to the next ‘fire to be put out’ – IF YOU AGREE WITH THIS EMAIL, PLEASE PRESS REPLY AND INSERT A WORD OR TWO, SO OTHER PRINCIPALS AND SCHOOL COMMUNITIES WON’T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THIS AND IPPN HEAD OFFICE WILL CLEARLY HEAR THIS IS THE MOST SERIOUS OF ISSUES….
I implore IPPN to not get side tracked by visiting inspectors dressed up as HSA inspectors and speak out and ACT about this matter….without a comprehensive test and tracing system , we are in serious trouble.
I fully understand the HSE and DES have created many of these issues but the bodies that represent us have allowed it unfold as it is the IPPN and INTO that sit at the table with the DES and HSE and not the individual principal, teacher, SNA, secretary or pupil.
Our politicians and others want schools back at all costs…..my worry, after these few days, is at what cost?
Finally, one positive from the week, the parents I dealt with and my school colleagues were all exceptional in their understanding and support.

Will Yam · 27-09-2020 09:48PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Hold on a minute. You should only be tested as a close contact of someone who has tested positive.This makes no sense.

I can only tell you what has happened.

27-09-2020 09:49PM

delly wrote: »

18/19 years olds starting college - "This is a risky environment, please commence remote learning for at least the next 2 weeks as we monitor the situation."

17/18 year olds in 6th year - "Schools are a safe space for students, please continue to attend your small classroom with your fellow 25 students."

Media Reports - "Positive test rates continue to rise throughout the month of September, for now we can't identify any pattern for this rise, however people are urged to reduce their social contacts."

The unpopular view on their thread, but the one bourne out by facts, is that the rate of case in school age kids is not growing relative to other age groups and the rate of increase is slowing overall.

I feel like I have had to repeat it 100 times, but it’s still true

wirelessdude01 · 27-09-2020 09:55PM

Will Yam wrote: »

I can only tell you what has happened.

So how is someone considered a close contact of someone who isn't positive?

27-09-2020 09:55PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Jesus, calm down. Wtf yourself. I understood where you were coming from in the first part of that previous comment. Schools are 100% not controlled environments. Do you even have kids?

Relative to shops, bars, cafes, play centres, playground etc etc etc they are., not to mention parties, communions and other gatherings.

And I have 2 - 1st class and juniors. And before it is said - I have no childcare issues and myself and my wife would be in a position to support home learning should it come to that

Will Yam · 27-09-2020 09:59PM

irishblessing wrote: »

Well then that's a bit presumptuous to say they would be "wound up unnecessarily" if you don't meet with them ordinarily.

If you're being tested though, are you in quarantine until you have the results?

I don’t really see how you are in a position to comment on how people I know (but you don’t) will react to a given set of circumstances.

And I am self isolating. But what, to me is unclear from hse is what is supposed to happen after that. One reading of the rules says 14 days self isolation after the all clear., but that’s not at all clear (forgive the use of the word again......).

And my daughter in uk got tested yesterday as well. She is expected to isolate for 8 days after all clear.

So all is not very clear.

Will Yam · 27-09-2020 10:00PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So how is someone considered a close contact of someone who isn't positive?

Ask the hse.

wirelessdude01 · 27-09-2020 10:02PM

Will Yam wrote: »

I don’t really see how you are in a position to comment on how people I know (but you don’t) will react to a given set of circumstances.

And I am self isolating. But what, to me is unclear from hse is what is supposed to happen after that. One reading of the rules says 14 days self isolation after the all clear., but that’s not at all clear (forgive the use of the word again......).

And my daughter in uk got tested yesterday as well. She is expected to isolate for 8 days after all clear.

So all is not very clear.

Test due to being a close contact requires restricted movement for 14 days after in our country.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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