How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

23-09-2020 11:51AM

JimmyVik wrote: »

Outbreaks up to 19th Sep

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/surveillance/covid-19outbreaksclustersinireland/COVID-19%20Weekly%20Outbreak%20Highlights_Week382020_web%20version_v1.0_21092020.pdf

See the * for schools.
Again, the rules are different for schools.
What is acceptable in schools for this virus would not be acceptable anywhere else.

Also they can give detailed breakdowns for travelers, roma, direct provision centers, prisons, but not for schools.

Be honest about schools please.

The * is there because they are acknowledging they are recording every instance where there is more than one case even in the absence of evidence of direct transmission.

Its not there for other areas as they know the hysteria around schools

daheff · 23-09-2020 12:06PM

whats the policy in schools for a child thats had a negative test? Can they go back to school the next day?

dinjo99 · 23-09-2020 12:21PM

After a negative test children can return to school 48 hours after symptoms disappear.

23-09-2020 12:24PM

daheff wrote: »

whats the policy in schools for a child thats had a negative test? Can they go back to school the next day?

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/if-your-child-has-symptoms.html#negative

Not-detected ('negative') test result, or another diagnosis
Your child can return to their normal activities once they have been given either:

a not-detected (negative) test result and are 48 hours without symptoms and, or
another diagnosis, that is not coronavirus
You and anyone your child lives with will no longer need to restrict your movements.

23-09-2020 12:45PM

dinjo99 wrote: »

After a negative test children can return to school 48 hours after symptoms disappear.

What if the child was tested only because they had a close contact? If their test is negative, when can they return to school?

mirrorwall14 · 23-09-2020 12:50PM

Balagan1 wrote: »

What if the child was tested only because they had a close contact? If their test is negative, when can they return to school?

No as far as I know. That’s like Varadkar today. They may still develop symptoms so must isolate for 14 days

daheff · 23-09-2020 01:37PM

dinjo99 wrote: »

After a negative test children can return to school 48 hours after symptoms disappear.

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/if-your-child-has-symptoms.html#negative

yep thats what we thought....but school decided today that its 48hours after a test rather than after symptoms.

which ended up in child being sent home (and upset over this).

who would a complaint go to? Board of mgmt?

edit we had child tested out of an abundance of care towards contacts. a number of people in the class were out sick recently and child had runny nose & fever (for a day). Fever was gone before test happened.

daheff · 23-09-2020 01:39PM

Balagan1 wrote: »

What if the child was tested only because they had a close contact? If their test is negative, when can they return to school?

in this case as i've seen with others, the HSE will tell them to isolate for 14 days and arrange (at least) one test...possibly more over that period.

23-09-2020 01:39PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

No as far as I know. That’s like Varadkar today. They may still develop symptoms so must isolate for 14 days

Correct -

https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/coronavirus/if-your-child-has-symptoms.html#negative

Children who are close contacts of someone who has coronavirus
If your child has symptoms, follow the advice on keeping your child at home - isolate your child, phone your GP, and restrict your movements.

If your child has no symptoms but has been in close contact with someone who has coronavirus, they should:

restrict their movements for 14 days - this includes not going to school
get tested for coronavirus - your GP can arrange this
They should do this even if they feel well. Household members, such as siblings, do not need to restrict their movements as long as the child has no symptoms.

Children who have no symptoms but have had close contact with a case will have 2 tests for coronavirus. This is because it can take up to 14 days for the virus to show up in your system after you have been exposed to it.

The second test will be 7 days after their last contact with the person who has coronavirus. If this is close to when they had their first test, they will only have 1 test.

irishblessing · 23-09-2020 01:48PM

"Household members, such as siblings, do not need to restrict their movements as long as the child has no symptoms."

Children tend to be more asymptomatic more than any other age group, and further to that point seems to be the reason why children were thought to be less affected. Tests were only happening for those with symptoms so a false confirmation bias was and is dangerous here.

So if children tend to be asymptomatic, then why would their household members/siblings (aka close contacts) not need to restrict their movements?

23-09-2020 01:59PM

irishblessing wrote: »

"Household members, such as siblings, do not need to restrict their movements as long as the child has no symptoms."

Children tend to be more asymptomatic more than any other age group, and further to that point seems to be the reason why children were thought to be less affected. Tests were only happening for those with symptoms so a false confirmation bias was and is dangerous here.

So if children tend to be asymptomatic, then why would their household members/siblings (aka close contacts) not need to restrict their movements?

Child is a close contact. They have had contact with a confirmed case within 48 hours of them becoming Symptomatic.

If Child is asymptomatic it is still likely to be 5 days post exposure before they are infectious.
Its only at that point that siblings will become infected, and another 5 days before they can pass to someone else.
Once the child is tested within 7 days, and confirmed positive, the siblings will likely be isolated prior to them becoming infectious.

If they test negative at 7 days because they are presymptomatic, if they subsequently get symptoms at 12 days, the siblings will still be within the incubation window.

Parents should also be trying to minimise contacts between siblings while isolating, but it wont always be possible or practical.

Treppen · 23-09-2020 02:31PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

No as far as I know. That’s like Varadkar today. They may still develop symptoms so must isolate for 14 days

Ya I read that about Leo. Even though he got an instant test that showed negative he's just staying home in case.. But still has to look after the bod don't you know.
I hope hell be OK.
Ill get my students to pray for him.

markodaly · 23-09-2020 04:32PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

That’s a question for the gov to answer don’t you think ?

Question really for all stakeholders in education to answer.
I mentioned in another thread, why is it that Ireland has some of the highest paid teachers in the world, yet we perform poorly when it comes to infrastructure and equipment?

Because teachers vote, and school books, computers and physical classrooms do not.

Once we mature as a society and not look for the hand out all the time, when there is a dispute, then we can press ahead with the much needed investment.
For example, put a pause on PS increments for the next 10 years, and invest in actual infrastructure and more teachers on the job.*

* I await the cavalry.

downthemiddle · 23-09-2020 04:38PM

markodaly wrote: »

Question really for all stakeholders in education to answer.
I mentioned in another thread, why is it that Ireland has some of the highest paid teachers in the world, yet we perform poorly when it comes to infrastructure and equipment?

Because teachers vote, and school books, computers and physical classrooms do not.

Once we mature as a society and not look for the hand out all the time, when there is a dispute, then we can press ahead with the much needed investment.
For example, put a pause on PS increments for the next 10 years, and invest in actual infrastructure and more teachers on the job.*

* I await the cavalry.

Why ten years Marko? At the rate the DES operate at you really need thirty to forty years to see genuine progress. In fact they should also freeze your nett pay by increasing your taxes over the same period. After all you only want what is best for the children.

markodaly · 23-09-2020 04:39PM

Blondini wrote: »

It's the only one with an asterisk, silly.
Leave the important stuff to the grownups, Willy.

Schools had to re-open.
I repeat schools had to re-open, therefore there has been more allowances for schools

This is not exactly rocket science, as the state, society and the nation, needs to educate its children and not keep them home until summer 2021, which by the looks of it, could be when a vaccine is available.

There was not nice, clean, perfect or 'mon and apple pie' solution here, it was a choice of, keeping kids home with the obvious and disastrous results to inequality and children's well being, or do ones best and get school re-opened, while trying to keep on top of any outbreaks.

The only people against this, seems to be teachers, and the odd parent. The vast vast majority of people are for the schools to be re-opened.

markodaly · 23-09-2020 04:42PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Why ten years Marko? At the rate the DES operate at you really need thirty to forty years to see genuine progress. In fact they should also freeze your nett pay by increasing your taxes over the same period. After all you only want what is best for the children.

Well, I already pay near 50% on the high band, but you get what I am saying.
Why should we pay PS more... when we have obvious deficiencies in Infrastructure.

All I have head about the past few weeks are small classrooms, yet the ASTI spent the past 10 years spending its social capital on needless EU law-suits and strike threats.

Dare I say, teachers have been very badly led.

downthemiddle · 23-09-2020 04:46PM

markodaly wrote: »

Schools had to re-open.
I repeat schools had to re-open, therefore there has been more allowances for schools

This is not exactly rocket science, as the state, society and the nation, needs to educate its children and not keep them home until summer 2021, which by the looks of it, could be when a vaccine is available.

There was not nice, clean, perfect or 'mon and apple pie' solution here, it was a choice of, keeping kids home with the obvious and disastrous results to inequality and children's well being, or do ones best and get school re-opened, while trying to keep on top of any outbreaks.

The only people against this, seems to be teachers, and the odd parent. The vast vast majority of people are for the schools to be re-opened.

Fair play Marko bud. We need people like you who are only thinking of the children.

History Queen · 23-09-2020 04:51PM

Pretty good read here on the pressures the school system is currently under, in particular our principals.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/covid-response-leaves-no-surprise-that-tensions-are-rising-across-school-system-1.4361719?mode=amp

Smacruairi · 23-09-2020 05:05PM

markodaly wrote: »

Question really for all stakeholders in education to answer.
I mentioned in another thread, why is it that Ireland has some of the highest paid teachers in the world, yet we perform poorly when it comes to infrastructure and equipment?

Because teachers vote, and school books, computers and physical classrooms do not.

Once we mature as a society and not look for the hand out all the time, when there is a dispute, then we can press ahead with the much needed investment.
For example, put a pause on PS increments for the next 10 years, and invest in actual infrastructure and more teachers on the job.*

* I await the cavalry.

Sack them all, you're right Mark. Teachinggal for minister for education too, marquees and fringes for all, exchange programmes with the Netherlands. Great stuff.

Blondini · 23-09-2020 05:37PM

Marko!

We missed you sooooo much.

The standards of posting had really dropped in your absence.

Welcome back... I'm positively beaming here, smiling like an big eejit..

wirelessdude01 · 23-09-2020 05:39PM

markodaly wrote: »

Question really for all stakeholders in education to answer.
I mentioned in another thread, why is it that Ireland has some of the highest paid teachers in the world, yet we perform poorly when it comes to infrastructure and equipment?

Because teachers vote, and school books, computers and physical classrooms do not.

Once we mature as a society and not look for the hand out all the time, when there is a dispute, then we can press ahead with the much needed investment.
For example, put a pause on PS increments for the next 10 years, and invest in actual infrastructure and more teachers on the job.*

* I await the cavalry.

Just increase taxes so that the burden is shared by all or maybe just put the additonal tax burden on those that dare to have children 😤 😑 😒

MerlinSouthDub · 23-09-2020 05:48PM

markodaly wrote: »

Schools had to re-open.
I repeat schools had to re-open, therefore there has been more allowances for schools

This is not exactly rocket science, as the state, society and the nation, needs to educate its children and not keep them home until summer 2021, which by the looks of it, could be when a vaccine is available.

There was not nice, clean, perfect or 'mon and apple pie' solution here, it was a choice of, keeping kids home with the obvious and disastrous results to inequality and children's well being, or do ones best and get school re-opened, while trying to keep on top of any outbreaks.

The only people against this, seems to be teachers, and the odd parent. The vast vast majority of people are for the schools to be re-opened.

Agree with most of what you say. I would add that the vast majority of teachers are delighted to be back. Certainly, in our child's school, the positivity and commitment from the teachers and principal has been brilliant.

downthemiddle · 23-09-2020 06:10PM

markodaly wrote: »

Schools had to re-open.
I repeat schools had to re-open, therefore there has been more allowances for schools

This is not exactly rocket science, as the state, society and the nation, needs to educate its children and not keep them home until summer 2021, which by the looks of it, could be when a vaccine is available.

There was not nice, clean, perfect or 'mon and apple pie' solution here, it was a choice of, keeping kids home with the obvious and disastrous results to inequality and children's well being, or do ones best and get school re-opened, while trying to keep on top of any outbreaks.

The only people against this, seems to be teachers, and the odd parent. The vast vast majority of people are for the schools to be re-opened.

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Agree with most of what you say. I would add that the vast majority of teachers are delighted to be back. Certainly, in our child's school, the positivity and commitment from the teachers and principal has been brilliant.

You have just confused poor Marko.

irishblessing · 23-09-2020 06:36PM

markodaly wrote: »

Schools had to re-open.
I repeat schools had to re-open, therefore there has been more allowances for schools

This is not exactly rocket science, as the state, society and the nation, needs to educate its children and not keep them home until summer 2021, which by the looks of it, could be when a vaccine is available.

There was not nice, clean, perfect or 'mon and apple pie' solution here, it was a choice of, keeping kids home with the obvious and disastrous results to inequality and children's well being, or do ones best and get school re-opened, while trying to keep on top of any outbreaks.

The only people against this, seems to be teachers, and the odd parent. The vast vast majority of people are for the schools to be re-opened.

I don't understand why, after all this time and pages and pages of discussion, views all over the radio and unions speaking up- some people still can't take on board the idea of hybrid remote learning. It's not an either or. Kids stay home and no education OR kids fully in school.

There's an obvious in-between other countries have figured out and innovated but of course, not us!

The_Brood · 23-09-2020 06:41PM

markodaly wrote: »

Schools had to re-open.
I repeat schools had to re-open, therefore there has been more allowances for schools

This is not exactly rocket science, as the state, society and the nation, needs to educate its children and not keep them home until summer 2021, which by the looks of it, could be when a vaccine is available.

There was not nice, clean, perfect or 'mon and apple pie' solution here, it was a choice of, keeping kids home with the obvious and disastrous results to inequality and children's well being, or do ones best and get school re-opened, while trying to keep on top of any outbreaks.

The only people against this, seems to be teachers, and the odd parent. The vast vast majority of people are for the schools to be re-opened.

I assume this is sarcasm? No one actually believes children's education will be destroyed by taking classes at home, and that the benefits of education on sight supersede the supposed dangers of Covid 19 that the rest of society is locked down for?

The schools are opened because Irish parents don't want their own children around, and the government is too scared of parents as a voter block. Dark times.

irishblessing · 23-09-2020 06:49PM

The_Brood wrote: »

I assume this is sarcasm? No one actually believes children's education will be destroyed by taking classes at home, and that the benefits of education on sight supersede the supposed dangers of Covid 19 that the rest of society is locked down for?

The schools are opened because Irish parents don't want their own children around, and the government is too scared of parents as a voter block. Dark times.

I honestly don't think this is it. I think it's a lack of innovating and forward thinking, coupled with complete ineptitude.

Will Yam · 23-09-2020 07:17PM

The_Brood wrote: »

I assume this is sarcasm? No one actually believes children's education will be destroyed by taking classes at home, and that the benefits of education on sight supersede the supposed dangers of Covid 19 that the rest of society is locked down for?

The schools are opened because Irish parents don't want their own children around, and the government is too scared of parents as a voter block. Dark times.

Sorry to burst your bubble but i believe our children’s education would be destroyed by taking classes at home. Learning and education is more than just listening to a teacher.

That said, i think your second point has some validity - yes some parents regard schools as a babysitting service.

Will Yam · 23-09-2020 07:18PM

irishblessing wrote: »

I don't understand why, after all this time and pages and pages of discussion, views all over the radio and unions speaking up- some people still can't take on board the idea of hybrid remote learning. It's not an either or. Kids stay home and no education OR kids fully in school.

There's an obvious in-between other countries have figured out and innovated but of course, not us!

This would be the optimum solution - the hybrid solution.

But I wouldn’t trust asti not to abuse it.

wirelessdude01 · 23-09-2020 07:25PM

Will Yam wrote: »

This would be the optimum solution - the hybrid solution.

But I wouldn’t trust asti not to abuse it.

In what way?

Will Yam · 23-09-2020 07:29PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

In what way?

All those vulnerable teachers deciding that seeing as the kids can have classes online, they dont have to turn up.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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