Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

bucketybuck · 23-09-2020 03:25PM

bloopy wrote: »

I ask because if a large amount of people testing positive never start showing symptoms, then word is going to get around - i.e. "Sure I had it and didn't even know. I'm grand".

This may make it harder to continue restrictions if people start to believe that it is not as bad as reported.

I would suggest that boat has already sailed.

PowerToWait · 23-09-2020 03:28PM

uli84 wrote: »

They can lockdown themselves if they wish so

Good lad.

PTH2009 · 23-09-2020 03:51PM

So Waterford going to be locked down

Bloody cases are under 10 the last few days

23-09-2020 03:55PM

I think it is not in the government/NPHETs best interests to be 100% honest with the public about the seriousness, or lack thereof, of the virus right now.

People read the newspapers, articles online, watch RTE and listen to NPHET and they get caught up in all the doom and start to believe that a deadly virus is on the loose. Government are happy for people to believe this as it keeps compliance higher.

The reality is, we are testing up to 15000 people some days and coming back with a tiny percentage of positive tests.
The vast majority of positives have either no symptoms or extremely mild symptoms.
We must have a few thousand cases since end of July now and less than 100 in hospital, just 16 in ICU.
Deaths are almost unheard of at this point.

The reason the virus is spreading is because people that think they have just a few sniffles, those few sniffles are potentially Covid.

Why is it in the governments interest to keep the fear/restrictions up?

1) The illness can affect the over 65s and the grey vote is very important. FF/FG are on life support these days and the grey vote are the majority of their voters.

2) Want to be seen as doing "Well" in how they handled the pandemic.

3) Fear of owning up to huge mistakes - Economy crashed and major recession ahead can't be seen as been for nothing.

23-09-2020 03:55PM

uli84 wrote: »

They can lockdown themselves if they wish so

It doesn't work like that, as I've clearly explained in my previous post.

MrMusician18 · 23-09-2020 04:08PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it is not in the government/NPHETs best interests to be 100% honest with the public about the seriousness, or lack thereof, of the virus right now.

People read the newspapers, articles online, watch RTE and listen to NPHET and they get caught up in all the doom and start to believe that a deadly virus is on the loose. Government are happy for people to believe this as it keeps compliance higher.

The reality is, we are testing up to 15000 people some days and coming back with a tiny percentage of positive tests.
The vast majority of positives have either no symptoms or extremely mild symptoms.
We must have a few thousand cases since end of July now and less than 100 in hospital, just 16 in ICU.
Deaths are almost unheard of at this point.

The reason the virus is spreading is because people that think they have just a few sniffles, those few sniffles are potentially Covid.

Why is it in the governments interest to keep the fear/restrictions up?

1) The illness can affect the over 65s and the grey vote is very important. FF/FG are on life support these days and the grey vote are the majority of their voters.

2) Want to be seen as doing "Well" in how they handled the pandemic.

3) Fear of owning up to huge mistakes - Economy crashed and major recession ahead can't be seen as been for nothing.

Conspiracy nonsense. There government is obviously being motivated by two factors - not wanting to be blamed for the the collapse in the health service if the HSE gets overwhelmed and secondly a genuine sense of public service. There is absolutely nothing to be gained politically by making the country suffer.

If there was an easy way out, they'd take it.

uli84 · 23-09-2020 04:27PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

It doesn't work like that, as I've clearly explained in my previous post.

Oh well, then they need to risk it, no risk, no fun,

23-09-2020 04:29PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Very simple.... test the nursing home workers. limited visits to nursing homes with tests done prior for visitors. Do not transfer people from hospitals to nursing homes without doing a covid-19 test, making sure its negative prior to transfer.

That is all.............. its really that simple.

But we currently test 90k + people per week with 98% + coming back negative, vast majority of which do not work in nursing homes or hospitals and do not interact with workers from either.

My understanding is that it isn't nearly as straight forward as that.

What's the turnaround time for a test; 24 hours at best?

Even still, a negative test isn't a 100% green light. There is a period where you can have the test, give a negative result and actually have the virus that hasn't manifested itself yet.

I know a fair few people who traveled from the UK, thinking they could get a test and skip the quarantine. This isn't the case. The advice is to still quarantine to see if symptoms appear. How could we be confident staff aren't bringing it into nursing homes with that in mind. Nobody in our society lives in total isolation.

facehugger99 · 23-09-2020 04:30PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Conspiracy nonsense. There government is obviously being motivated by two factors - not wanting to be blamed for the the collapse in the health service if the HSE gets overwhelmed and secondly a genuine sense of public service. There is absolutely nothing to be gained politically by making the country suffer.

If there was an easy way out, they'd take it.

They're currently takin the easy way out - fcuking 10's of billions of taxpayers money at an issue to avoid making a decision.

Captain_Crash · 23-09-2020 04:32PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

If there was an easy way out, they'd take it.

"NPHET retain discretion" Micheal Martin speaking outside government buildings, 15 September 2020.

Zebra3 · 23-09-2020 04:33PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

They're currently takin the easy way out - fcuking 10's of billions of taxpayers money at an issue to avoid making a decision.

Like the billions blown on banks.

Who cares about the cost to the taxpayer and society, all about being seen to do something.

rob316 · 23-09-2020 04:37PM

I've long said Sweden is the model to follow, let it spread moderately and isolate the vulnerable. We can not keep threatening the population with lockdown for a virus that 99% will recover from. Its really ridiculous when you think of it like that.

Ginger n Lemon · 23-09-2020 04:47PM

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

Just shows the levels of cluelessness from the anti-restrictions crew. People in nursing homes are only a small fraction of those at risk from covid. The nursing homes are the easiest to deal with but you don't appear to understand that there are large numbers of people over 65, people with conditions that make them vulnerable etc that can't simply isolate from all potential sources of getting covid.

That is why we need to try to reduce the virus circulating in the community so that these people do not pick it up directly themselves or indirectly from someone else bringing it home. This is why restrictions and lockdowns are the answer - its not possible to isolate large sections of society so therefore we must try to isolate all society as much as possible.

Also remember its a pure lottery, you could be young and healthy and get covid with no symptoms or you could end up in ICU on a ventilator fighting for your life - I dont want to take that gamble, I dont want other members of my family or friends to have to take that gamble despite some in here appearing very willing to - bizarre really.

Nox I thought we were friends? And here you are calling me clueless.....

over 70% of covid deaths in Ireland are in nursing homes.

Listen we cant "battle the spread" of a virus. We havent been doing that for flu. And we wont be doing it much longer for covid (well I know you will, but I dont know anyone who still prefers to stay at home...)

You started today pretty aggressively, calling people of this thread "bunch of braindead idiots" you gotta calm down.

You I like you for your controversy, but you gotta keep it down on the insults.

Ginger n Lemon · 23-09-2020 04:52PM

Germany to declare Dublin a Covid-19 risk area due to high number of high cases

Arrivals from Dublin required to take a coronavirus test within 10 days and self-isolate until they receive negative result

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/germany-to-declare-dublin-a-covid-19-risk-area-due-to-high-number-of-coronavirus-cases-1.4362384

Well. Damn. I wanted to go there for xmas markets

We are in lockdown and cases still rise and we arent welcomed anywhere.... I dont know why but i feel lockdown is the wrong approach that hasnt worked.

rob316 · 23-09-2020 04:53PM

70% of deaths in nursing homes and we have been told already the overall figure is exaggerated. Most of the world is massively overreacting to this virus. Maybe I watched too many movies or read too many books but this isn't remotely a deadly pandemic.

23-09-2020 04:55PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Conspiracy nonsense. There government is obviously being motivated by two factors - not wanting to be blamed for the the collapse in the health service if the HSE gets overwhelmed and secondly a genuine sense of public service. There is absolutely nothing to be gained politically by making the country suffer.

If there was an easy way out, they'd take it.

You say conspiracy but then immediately follow up by providing another example of why it is in the governments best interests to keep lockdowns/restrictions/fear.

The HSE has been a mess for years. It is actually pathetic. And they have done the sum of nothing to improve capacity etc since March. So of course the Government don't want it to get overwhelmed.

There is plenty to be gained politically here. Making the country believe you led it through a deadly pandemic even though the reality is that they sat back and delegated responsibility to NPHET, crashed the economy, cut the PUP payments while gladly accepting pay rises themselves.

FintanMcluskey · 23-09-2020 05:02PM

rob316 wrote: »

70% of deaths in nursing homes and we have been told already the overall figure is exaggerated. Most of the world is massively overreacting to this virus. Maybe I watched too many movies or read too many books but this isn't remotely a deadly pandemic.

The virus is a non event.

The reaction to the virus is a modern day example of burning down a house to catch a mouse.

Incidentally a lot of legal professionals have always questioned the restrictions, lord Sumption, an ex supreme court judge in the UK is one that springs to mind.

The medical professionals have turned out to be twisted crooks with a vested interest in fuelling hysteria like Mr Luke O Neill. 400 million his company sold for yesterday. Laughable stuff.

Slowly but surely the wood will become visible from the trees

rob316 · 23-09-2020 05:04PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think it is not in the government/NPHETs best interests to be 100% honest with the public about the seriousness, or lack thereof, of the virus right now.

People read the newspapers, articles online, watch RTE and listen to NPHET and they get caught up in all the doom and start to believe that a deadly virus is on the loose. Government are happy for people to believe this as it keeps compliance higher.

The reality is, we are testing up to 15000 people some days and coming back with a tiny percentage of positive tests.
The vast majority of positives have either no symptoms or extremely mild symptoms.
We must have a few thousand cases since end of July now and less than 100 in hospital, just 16 in ICU.
Deaths are almost unheard of at this point.

The reason the virus is spreading is because people that think they have just a few sniffles, those few sniffles are potentially Covid.

Why is it in the governments interest to keep the fear/restrictions up?

1) The illness can affect the over 65s and the grey vote is very important. FF/FG are on life support these days and the grey vote are the majority of their voters.

2) Want to be seen as doing "Well" in how they handled the pandemic.

3) Fear of owning up to huge mistakes - Economy crashed and major recession ahead can't be seen as been for nothing.

Maybe we could could see some honesty and courage if we had a stronger government but they take the lead from NPHET. You only had to watch the recent press conference Leo, Martin and Donelly had absolutely no clue they even told members of the media you should talk to the CMO.

Sweden had the courage to go their own way, while everyone else said they were wrong and they stuck it out and are in an even better place than us right now. There immediate death rate was higher yes, but they can be certain it will balance out when you take into account the deaths and illness from shutting down the country for months which we will experience.

facehugger99 · 23-09-2020 05:05PM

rob316 wrote: »

I've long said Sweden is the model to follow, let it spread moderately and isolate the vulnerable. We can not keep threatening the population with lockdown for a virus that 99% will recover from. Its really ridiculous when you think of it like that.

Sweden will be back to full normality in 2021 while we'll still have Glynn and our cowardly politicians finger-wagging at us and telling us how deeply concerned they are about the case numbers.

rob316 · 23-09-2020 05:10PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The virus is a non event.

The reaction to the virus is a modern day example of burning down a house to catch a mouse.

Incidentally a lot of legal professionals have always questioned the restrictions, lord Sumption, an ex supreme court judge in the UK is one that springs to mind.

The medical professionals have turned out to be twisted crooks with a vested interest in fuelling hysteria like Mr Luke O Neill. 400 million his company sold for yesterday. Laughable stuff.

Slowly but surely the wood will become visible from the trees

I do think if this was another generation the reaction wouldn't of been so severe. I can go back to early march and the calls for a lockdown across the media, especially social media were deafening. The fear machine was in full flow. Its endemic in our society now, over reacting is, I just think of the storm warnings which in reality are a bit of rain and wind I spent my years kicking a ball in and working in without a care. People lose their minds over these storm warnings.

If I contracted the virus tomorrow and ended up in hospital, my opinion would not change that this is largely harmless.

Plumbthedepths · 23-09-2020 05:15PM

Interesting...https://twitter.com/C1aranMurray/status/1308767945624035328?s=20

funnydoggy · 23-09-2020 05:18PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Interesting...https://twitter.com/C1aranMurray/status/1308767945624035328?s=20

That's a confusing one. Is it if they present to hospital with known COVID symptoms? In that case, would the case count not be higher if someone has the symptoms but doesn't actually have COVID?

Plumbthedepths · 23-09-2020 05:23PM

funnydoggy wrote: »

That's a confusing one. Is it if they present to hospital with known COVID symptoms? In that case, would the case count not be higher if someone has the symptoms but doesn't actually have COVID?

Hard to say prehaps they are deciding not to search for cases but instead wait till they present.
It's going to be fun here when everyone with a head cold gets a swab up the nose and is expected to restrict their movements till a result is known.

funnydoggy · 23-09-2020 05:26PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Hard to say prehaps they are deciding not to search for cases but instead wait till they present.
It's going to be fun here when everyone with a head cold gets a swab up the nose and is expected to restrict their movements till a result is known.

Fun? You misspelled "f*cking headache" :pac::pac::D

hayoc · 23-09-2020 05:29PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It's going to be fun here when everyone with a head cold gets a swab up the nose and is expected to restrict their movements till a result is known.

Thats whats happening in the schools right now.

A friends kid - 12s kid absent in her class because of varying "cold" symptoms. All 12 got referred for tests and could not go in until they got the all clear (none positive).

Another school, kids back in 4 days and one kid tested positive, whole class sent home for 2 weeks.

The above type situations doesnt seem to be getting reported on in the media.

Ive absolutely no idea how the teachers are supposed to get through the years curriculum with that kind of disruption to classes.

Ginger n Lemon · 23-09-2020 05:30PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Interesting...https://twitter.com/C1aranMurray/status/1308767945624035328?s=20

Finally.... common sense coming through.

Ireland to copy that? Sometime in Q3 2021? :rolleyes:

road_high · 23-09-2020 05:31PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Interesting...https://twitter.com/C1aranMurray/status/1308767945624035328?s=20

Resignation (ie the reality that many of us without our heads up our arses for 6 months have been saying) is starting to creep in across Europe- you can't stop this virus, the best you can do is protect the most vulnerable.
I'm sure the Swede that was speaking to the idiots in our Covid dithering Committee got some food for thought today too- I heard they had one in telling them a few home truths (doubtful they'll listen...yet)

23-09-2020 05:38PM

rob316 wrote: »

I do think if this was another generation the reaction wouldn't of been so severe. I can go back to early march and the calls for a lockdown across the media, especially social media were deafening. The fear machine was in full flow. Its endemic in our society now, over reacting is, I just think of the storm warnings which in reality are a bit of rain and wind I spent my years kicking a ball in and working in without a care. People lose their minds over these storm warnings.

If I contracted the virus tomorrow and ended up in hospital, my opinion would not change that this is largely harmless.

It is a really baffling situation...

All of the stats are quite easily available. And they are not hard to interpret.

Covid is an extremely mild disease.
I imagine a proper investigation into our "Deaths" would highlight just how mild it really is.

Isn't it strange how we've had a lot more deaths than ICU admissions? That suggests to me that most of the deaths were already so close to death from their primary illness(es) that ICU would have been a waste of time.

The solution is a lot worse than the problem.

_Kaiser_ · 23-09-2020 05:47PM

This RTE R1 interview with our Swedish guest is painful. Trying to undermine him at every turn all so the narrative is maintained

rob316 · 23-09-2020 05:49PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It is a really baffling situation...

All of the stats are quite easily available. And they are not hard to interpret.

Covid is an extremely mild disease.
I imagine a proper investigation into our "Deaths" would highlight just how mild it really is.

Isn't it strange how we've had a lot more deaths than ICU admissions? That suggests to me that most of the deaths were already so close to death from their primary illness(es) that ICU would have been a waste of time.

The solution is a lot worse than the problem.

That's the general idea of a nursing home you go there waiting to die. I don't get the sentimentality of the whole thing, when I'm 80 odd and have to go to a home I'll know my time is up any day. I can not get emotional about someone 80 plus dying from covid.

We are locking away our young and able bodied to protect the vulnerable at a cost to our overall health and economy. I just can't understand the thought to it.

Instead of spending time drawing up plans on restrictions we should be drawing up a program to protect those at risk. But because our leaders lack any sort of forward thinking we are throwing a blanket over the whole population and problem which is the lazy approach.
Cocooning was the original approach but it got the bin fast without any development of it.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings