How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

B.A._Baracus · 21-09-2020 12:19PM

beauf wrote: »

If we assume the schools will get locked down again.

Perhaps the schools should be also looking at having their remote learning and eLearning ready to go.

They really should have a plan to go online.
Sure there is technology and frameworks already out there. Many colleges use the content management system "Moodle" - where students can upload assignments and even watch pre-recorded lessons and join live streams. Teenagers could avail of this.

The little kids might find Moodle a bit too much. But I do suspect you would have some people moaning about "not having computers for their kids to learn!" Blah blah gimme a free laptop.

But going back to little kids we have Soarview and that can be easily received throughout Ireland with an aerial (or sat if someone lives rural) who's to say we couldn't have dedicated channels for 1st class, 2nd class etc in the mornings.

There are ways the government can go that's for sure.

21-09-2020 12:22PM

Treppen wrote: »

HSE actively telling teachers and students to ignore confirmed close contact cases in schools° So numbers will be hard to get and go on anecdote only.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1165854/?fbclid=IwAR3Sj00WD4NT06ADC_DGw6jFEDXoXSquVGKwZFuhCN2gCIzuERLa_pszeMo

The app cannot confirm close contact, just that you were within Bluetooth range of a confirmed case. If teachers were in adjacent classrooms with a wall between them they would likely trigger the app. I am sure the teachers in Drogheda know full well if they were in close contact with the teacher who tested positive, and don't need an app to tell tell them one way or the other

wirelessdude01 · 21-09-2020 12:30PM

Treppen wrote: »

HSE actively telling teachers and students to ignore confirmed close contact cases in schools° So numbers will be hard to get and go on anecdote only.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1165854/?fbclid=IwAR3Sj00WD4NT06ADC_DGw6jFEDXoXSquVGKwZFuhCN2gCIzuERLa_pszeMo

Also know a teacher who rang up the HSELive number to ask a question. First call they said they were a teacher and got their answer. Second call with same query but not disclosing they were a teacher resulted in a different answer.

21-09-2020 12:47PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Also know a teacher who rang up the HSELive number to ask a question. First call they said they were a teacher and got their answer. Second call with same query but not disclosing they were a teacher resulted in a different answer.

If people spent more time worrying about how they are going to work with the system than playing gotcha everyone would be better off.

Did they get the same person and what was the advice?

wirelessdude01 · 21-09-2020 12:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If people spent more time worrying about how they are going to work with the system than playing gotcha everyone would be better off.

Did they get the same person and what was the advice?

No idea if it was the same person or not. For information it was a teacher caught up in the Drogheda mess.

21-09-2020 12:57PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

No idea if it was the same person or not. For information it was a teacher caught up in the Drogheda mess.

Seen as you know one of the teachers, why do they need an app to tell them if they were a close contact of the positive case in the school?

The app is for situations where we don't know who we are in the vicinity of or are likely to forget.

wirelessdude01 · 21-09-2020 01:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Seen as you know one of the teachers, why do they need an app to tell them if they were a close contact of the positive case in the school?

The app is for situations where we don't know who we are in the vicinity of or are likely to forget.

They weren't told there was a positive case. Principals aren't meant to tell their staff. That is the job of the local health team.

I know of a case in a different school, case in a primary school where the principal decided to tell the teacher. They went off had the test, negstive result. Five days after the principal had handed over the relevant contact details for the parents and relevant school staff were they contacted. That is not right.

irishblessing · 21-09-2020 01:12PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If people spent more time worrying about how they are going to work with the system than playing gotcha everyone would be better off.

Did they get the same person and what was the advice?

The answer should be the same no matter if they called 20 times and got 20 different people.

21-09-2020 01:15PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

They weren't told there was a positive case. Principals aren't meant to tell their staff. That is the job of the local health team.

I know of a case in a different school, case in a primary school where the principal decided to tell the teacher. They went off had the test, negstive result. Five days after the principal had handed over the relevant contact details for the parents and relevant school staff were they contacted. That is not right.

So when they got the notification, they contacted the health authorities who were then able to confirm that based on the measures in the school it was not a genuine contact alert?

I also presume that given a teacher went off sick, once they got wind that there was a confirmed case they knew who it was, and if any of them at that point believed they had being a close contact they should have self isolated and requested a test, irrespective of what an app or health authorities said

wirelessdude01 · 21-09-2020 01:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

So when they got the notification, they contacted the health authorities who were then able to confirm that based on the measures in the school it was not a genuine contact alert?

I also presume that given a teacher went off sick, once they got wind that there was a confirmed case they knew who it was, and if any of them at that point believed they had being a close contact they should have self isolated and requested a test, irrespective of what an app or health authorities said

You are presuming a lot and obviously drawing your own conclusions based on what you think you know.

21-09-2020 01:22PM

irishblessing wrote: »

The answer should be the same no matter if they called 20 times and got 20 different people.

Well if one question was - "I am a teacher in X school and got a close contact notification on my phone, what do I do?", the answer may be, "public health have completed an assessment on the school contacts of a confirmed case and have not identified you as a close contact"
And if the second was -" I got a close contact notification on my phone, what do I do?", the answer may be", the answer may be "When can we arrange the test?".

The app does not identify where the potential contact took place, therefore if the caller did not identify themselves as a teacher at the school, the representative at the other end would not know where any contact took place and could not rule out the caller as a contact. However if they identify the caller as being from the school and an assessment has ruled out close contact in the school,a different answer is appropriate

21-09-2020 01:24PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

You are presuming a lot and obviously drawing your own conclusions based on what you think you know.

Well there are very few facts presented apart from 30 teachers panicking and public health ruling out them being contacts

JDD · 21-09-2020 01:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Seen as you know one of the teachers, why do they need an app to tell them if they were a close contact of the positive case in the school?

The app is for situations where we don't know who we are in the vicinity of or are likely to forget.

What is the criteria for "close contact" when the public health authority investigates? Is it in a room with someone for a certain period of time?

And what is the criteria for "close contact" on the app? I presume it is a certain period of time within a certain proximity of the infected individual? The app, of course, cannot discern whether the other person was teaching in a class behind you, with a wall between both classes.

I find it questionable that the thirty other teachers were in fact close contacts of the infected teacher, unless the infected teacher was in a room with each of the thirty teachers for a certain period of time over the course of two days. I suppose it could happen if there was an assembly or something.

History Queen · 21-09-2020 01:39PM

What on earth is going on with the contract tracing system? Principal having to call 999 to get in contact with public health and having to contact trace himself. This just isn't good enough.

https://twitter.com/osullijo/status/1308015507300388864?s=09

21-09-2020 01:51PM

History Queen wrote: »

What on earth is going on with the contract tracing system? Principal having to call 999 to get in contact with public health and having to contact trace himself. This just isn't good enough.

https://twitter.com/osullijo/status/1308015507300388864?s=09

School principals (and employers in general) should work on the assumption of worst case and send everyone home who they think may be a close contact until public health confirm otherwise. Not wait for public health to tell them, as resources are finite. If they are not told to do this, they should be.

lulublue22 · 21-09-2020 01:54PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

School principals (and employers in general) should work on the assumption of worst case and send everyone home who they think may be a close contact until public health confirm otherwise. Not wait for public health to tell them, as resources are finite. If they are not told to do this, they should be.

Guidelines for schools are clear - public health team to be informed who will then risk ass who is a close contact or not. Principals are not allowed even inform staff of a suspected case.

wirelessdude01 · 21-09-2020 02:01PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

Guidelines for schools are clear - public health team to be informed who will then risk ass who is a close contact or not. Principals are not allowed even inform staff of a suspected case.

Big issue in the system. I personally know of similar cases like that.

Another issue that has cropped up in a school that I know of is where those who have been identified as close contacts refusing to turn up for testing.

Talisman · 21-09-2020 02:01PM

There's been a positive case in my daughter's class and the email from the school principal doesn't inspire confidence in the HSE or the 'contact' tracing process. From the email:

The HSE has been in touch with the family and with us as a school which is in line with the process once a positive test has been detected.

They have already established and contacted any staff or students they identify as close contacts via the contact tracing process. If the HSE did not contact you already it means that you are not on that list of contacts.

A contact is anyone who was with the person for 15 minutes sustained contact without wearing a mask and who failed to maintain the 1m social distancing. The HSE worked on all the details given to them by the student, her family and the school and the contact list was drawn up.

The risk days were last Tuesday 15th September and Wednesday 16th September and Thursday morning 17th September up to the time the student went home. I have gone through the student’s timetable with the HSE doctor and we have established the information needed.

I specifically asked if the students sitting beside the student who tested positive were possible contacts they said again that unless face coverings were not worn and the desks were moved to less than one metre then they were not considered a contact.

I find it unbelievable that anybody in the immediate vicinity of the student is not considered a contact based upon the fact that they were wearing a face covering because the classrooms are not large enough to have 20~30 students 1m apart.

History Queen · 21-09-2020 02:02PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

School principals (and employers in general) should work on the assumption of worst case and send everyone home who they think may be a close contact until public health confirm otherwise. Not wait for public health to tell them, as resources are finite. If they are not told to do this, they should be.

I agree with what you say here, however it contradicts what principals have been told to do. This is just one of the issues that people in the education sector are worried about.

wirelessdude01 · 21-09-2020 02:03PM

Deleted User wrote: »

School principals (and employers in general) should work on the assumption of worst case and send everyone home who they think may be a close contact until public health confirm otherwise. Not wait for public health to tell them, as resources are finite. If they are not told to do this, they should be.

That is not what principals have been told by the guide. They are very clear that only the public health team are allowed.

wirelessdude01 · 21-09-2020 02:06PM

Talisman wrote: »

There's been a positive case in my daughter's class and the email from the school principal doesn't inspire confidence in the HSE or the 'contact' tracing process. From the email:

I find it unbelievable that anybody in the immediate vicinity of the student is not considered a contact based upon the fact that they were wearing a face covering because the classrooms are not large enough to have 20~30 students 1m apart.

Totally contradicts the ECDC guidance for schools.

21-09-2020 02:20PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

That is not what principals have been told by the guide. They are very clear that only the public health team are allowed.

Well this is wrong. So what if they need to reverse this decision if extra were sent home that didn't need to be.

Also the information that they are using masks to rule out close contact is concerning. Masks are an additional measure not a control for the virus. I have been involved gathering data used in the decision to send multiple people home at work who have said "but I was wearing a mask" - company policy is to internally contact trace for anyone with symptoms sent for test, only had 1 positive for 650 employees.

ax530 · 21-09-2020 02:25PM

wondering if this issue with contact tracing is a reason behind meat factory and other work clusters. where the management were not as interesed or organised as school staff.

wirelessdude01 · 21-09-2020 02:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Well this is wrong. So what if they need to reverse this decision if extra were sent home that didn't need to be.

Also the information that they are using masks to rule out close contact is concerning. Masks are an additional measure not a control for the virus. I have been involved gathering data used in the decision to send multiple people home at work who have said "but I was wearing a mask" - company policy is to internally contact trace for anyone with symptoms sent for test, only had 1 positive for 650 employees.

The masks thing is total rubbish and muddies the water even more.

Friend of mine is a teaching principal. Case in his class. Sent on all the information they asked for. Kids in pods of 5. One of the kids in the pod wasn't considered a close contact. Neither was my friend or the SNA who works with one of the kidsco sodered a close contact. Said that kids in the pod behind and next would be closer.

To him there appeared to be no rhyme or reason to how they decided on close contacts.

the corpo · 21-09-2020 02:47PM

There is definitely an unfortunate amount of mismanagement with the testing system. My daughter was tested last week at the Aviva, and the appointment was within hours of talking to the GP, and the results less than 23 hours later, so that was all fantastic, and the staff at the test centre were excellent.

But, there problems with the admin, when we get there she'd been registered twice for the test, they'd an extra kit and set of forms for her. Problem there is we took away a test slot from someone else who could have been seen.

A couple of days later we got a call from another test centre in Dublin (and my heart nearly stopped when they said who they were) but they were asking why my daughter hadn't turned for her test. So, somehow she was also registered there, and that's another test slot wasted, plus the resources used up tracking her down.

Point is, this was one 10 year old ending up with 3 test appointments. How often is that happening and slowing things down?

mirrorwall14 · 21-09-2020 02:50PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The masks thing is total rubbish and muddies the water even more.

Friend of mine is a teaching principal. Case in his class. Sent on all the information they asked for. Kids in pods of 5. One of the kids in the pod wasn't considered a close contact. Neither was my friend or the SNA who works with one of the kidsco sodered a close contact. Said that kids in the pod behind and next would be closer.

To him there appeared to be no rhyme or reason to how they decided on close contacts.

I'm currently on sick leave for a bad asthma flare up. These stories are absolutely horrifying to read. How do I keep myself safe if we don't get told and there are some kind of arbitrary reasoning for contacts?

Surely its very simple. Case in the class, class goes home and is taught online for two weeks. Clear, concise and safe for everyone involved

wirelessdude01 · 21-09-2020 02:54PM

the corpo wrote: »

There is definitely an unfortunate amount of mismanagement with the testing system. My daughter was tested last week at the Aviva, and she her appointment was within hours of talking to the GP, and the results less than 23 hours later, so that was all fantastic, and the staff at the test centre were excellent.

But, there problems with the admin, when we get there she'd been registered twice for the test, they'd an extra kit and set of forms for her. Problem there is we took away a test slot from someone else who could have been seen.

A couple of days later we got a call from another test centre in Dublin (and my heart nearly stopped when they said who they were) but they were asking why my daughter hadn't turned for her test. So, somehow she was also registered there, and that's another test slot wasted, plus the resources used up tracking her down.

Point is, this was one 10 year old ending up with 3 test appointments. How often is that happening and slowing things down?

This kinda messing also inflates the number of people not turning up for tests.

jrosen · 21-09-2020 02:55PM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I'm currently on sick leave for a bad asthma flare up. These stories are absolutely horrifying to read. How do I keep myself safe if we don't get told and there are some kind of arbitrary reasoning for contacts?

Surely its very simple. Case in the class, class goes home and is taught online for two weeks. Clear, concise and safe for everyone involved

Its not that simple. You could have a case or suspected case 2/3 times per month. It would mean a class not being in school at all.

mirrorwall14 · 21-09-2020 02:56PM

jrosen wrote: »

Its not that simple. You could have a case or suspected case 2/3 times per month. It would mean a class not being in school at all.

I did not say send the class home for a suspected case. I said send the class home for a confirmed case

Blondini · 21-09-2020 03:05PM

At least 10 new school cases so far just today.

Be grand....

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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