Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

uli84 wrote: »

This is so obvious and evident and logical that it hurts. When will they cop on.

It is hard to say. I don’t know what they use as input to their models and analysis. They may just say that there is no data to suggest that is really the case. They still think, 6 months down the road, in a simple, linear way about a problem that is highly complex and non-linear.

I don’t think nphet have capacity, expertise and skill in advising on this matter. Surely at this stage they would have to look back at the evidence and re-calibrate. The problem is that no one in the government has balls to go to them and tell them to cop on and step up to the challenge. Both nphet and the government treat this issue like a hot potato. No one has leadership drive and skill to lead the country through this situation.

It would take a complete change in strategy to disband nphet and move this country forward. That however means that a lot of people would have to come out and say that mistakes and misjudgements were made. That is not going to happen as they are insecure, pathetic little men.

And so prepare for another lockdown me thinks.

Ninthlife wrote: »

You do know they only make recommendations and its up to the Government whether to act on the advice or not.

Not quite true, they leaked their advice about wanting to close cafes and indoor eating spaces to the media, this was outside the parameters of the 5 level plan. Businesses ordered supplies on the pretense that level 3 meant they'd be open for the weekend. Then the government announced their closure and the rest is history.
So yes Nphet are very much pulling the strings and doing so in an underhanded manner so as to undermine the government and get what they want knowing full well the government won't go against their health advice.

Del Griffith wrote: »

No they won't. Only the early lockdown countries (that were patting themselves on the back in July) still have to face the music.

Sweden now have less daily cases then their neighbours despite a significantly higher population.

As I said before comparing Ireland to Sweden is pointless they tend to follow the rules whereas we are a disaster I believe opening Wet pubs is crazy the cases will soar unless there is strict enforcement of Covid guidelines in pubs which I believe there won't be

paw patrol wrote: »

really? I'd hate to call you naive.
The previous administration they pretty much said they defer to NPHET which has been most of the lockdown.


Anyway I dealt with that point by stating my belief that Leo has absolved himself of all blame because

if we win , he will say "i am great, I hired NPHET"


if it goes tits up he will say "I hired NPHET, they are the experts. Whats a Taoiseach to do? BTW I am great"


This is Leo, along with decent speaking skills and good PR.

Im far from naive and I do understand the point you are making but NPHET can only offer its expert advice. If Government doesnt want to enact on it thats up to them.


Michael Martin former teacher and full time politician for many years is not in a position of knowledge to disagree with medical experts neither is Leo or any other member of cabinet.

Id rather the health advice of a professional medical person than anyone in the Dail.

Whether its the right or wrong thing to do we wont know maybe til its all over but from the very beginning it was stated that the State would value life of citizens over everything else so it should be no surprise that Government are accepting NPHETs advice

Assetbacked wrote: »

Not even Russia. London, the old saviour for Ireland's emigrants, is far ahead of us with reopening. The way things are going here and depending what happens on 1 January 2021, it could be a good option to try to move over there and escape the sh1tshow here.

What about the 'Rule of Six'? London is not 'far ahead' of us.

Another problem is that aside from a minority of people, some of which vent their opinions here, for most of the population the government and nphet are doing a fine job. As MM said last week people were asking for a more radical approach. However stupid that may come across for a lot of us, the majority of the country uses RTÉ as the only source of information and for them the current measures are still inadequate to how serious and dangerous this virus is. This plus what I described in my post above are the two main reason why nothing is going to change with regard to the strategy for “living with covid”.

For us who expect something to change fundamentally would be a delusion. Simple as that. RTÉ did not say that the government are not dealing with the crisis well, and the recession is not in a full swing yet for everyone to feel the pinch. They keep on working on reinforcing their standpoint, which is another proof of tunnel vision.

Consequently, I don’t expect any draconian measures introduced to the new budget. It is way to early to give away indicators of how bad the situation is having no grip over covid. Insecure, pathetic little men in action yet again.

Ninthlife wrote: »

Im far from naive and I do understand the point you are making but NPHET can only offer its expert advice. If Government doesnt want to enact on it thats up to them.


Michael Martin former teacher and full time politician for many years is not in a position of knowledge to disagree with medical experts neither is Leo or any other member of cabinet.

Id rather the health advice of a professional medical person than anyone in the Dail.

Whether its the right or wrong thing to do we wont know maybe til its all over but from the very beginning it was stated that the State would value life of citizens over everything else so it should be no surprise that Government are accepting NPHETs advice

But NPHET aren't economic experts (neither is MM tbf), and the decisions taken by NPHET are taken without any regard for the economic well being of the state.

It is the government's job to take advice from NPHET and balance it up against economic factors. After all, this all has to be paid for.

But what the government are doing is abdicating their responsibility and just saying whatever NPHET say goes.

That's not how democratic governments work and it's not democracy.

IF MM doesn't want the responsibility of being taoiseach, he can always resign.

But the current charade can't continue.

Ninthlife wrote: »

Im far from naive and I do understand the point you are making but NPHET can only offer its expert advice. If Government doesnt want to enact on it thats up to them.

How come NPHET announced the closure of Dublin Pubs and restaurants on Friday morning before the government had even met to discuss the decision?

normanoffside wrote: »

How come NPHET announced the closure of Dublin Pubs and restaurants on Friday morning before the government had even met to discuss the decision?

Because NPHET decide.

The government rubber stamps.

In between NPHET leak the details to the media.

That's how a lot of TDs (the members of our national parliament, elected by the people) probably find out what's going on.

normanoffside wrote: »

How come NPHET announced the closure of Dublin Pubs and restaurants on Friday morning before the government had even met to discuss the decision?

There’s rumor of a push from some FF TD’s to sideline NPHET... so maybe they leak decisions themselves knowing that the government won’t go against information that’s been made public? I don’t know but the leaks are a sign of a lack of leadership

Captain_Crash wrote: »

There’s rumor of a push from some FF TD’s to sideline NPHET... so maybe they leak decisions themselves knowing that the government won’t go against information that’s been made public? I don’t know but the leaks are a sign of a lack of leadership

Martin is simply a woeful Taoiseach. The man couldn’t think outside the box if you wedged one over his head.
The general public are deeply unimpressed with the latest shenanigans and Nphet finger waving. Only the hardcore “we’re all gona die” brigade are really listening anymore (granted they are a sizeable minority in a country like Ireland where personal Health responsibility is an alien concept to many). People’s reserve is done now. Many people just resigned to getting c19, whatever that even means now

When is the flu vaccination available?

normanoffside wrote: »

How come NPHET announced the closure of Dublin Pubs and restaurants on Friday morning before the government had even met to discuss the decision?

Because they had been undermining the government all week with statements and leaks to RTE, et al, which contradicted elements of the five point plan.
In fact, theyt have done it again this morning with one of their number telling TodayFM that pubs and restaurants will have to stay closed for longer than the three week lockdown.
They have not allowed the five point plan to last even a week.

Grant Billions Bifocals wrote: »

The vaccines help to some degree obviously but to get the real benefit across the population everyone needs to get vaccinated.

This is why anti-vaxers are such an issue as even a small number of children not getting childhood vaccinations is making a bit difference in controlling diseases such as measles.

A corona vaccine should be made legally mandatory as should all key vaccines such as the MMR etc.

Go on, I'll bite, how would you have them enforce this without it being a human rights violation?

manniot2 wrote: »

i didnt see the reference to flu here when i read first. thought maybe you were taking putin's vaccine haha

Was responding to another poster about flu vaccine. Not ready for Putin's smarties yet