Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

Happydays2020 · 20-09-2020 10:28AM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

All workers are entitled to highlight concerns they have about safety.

But threatening industrial action,

•Only 3 weeks after schools have resumed
•The day after 50,000 people have been laid off yet again
•Having been paid full for 6 months and protected
•While huge sacrifices have been made and some businesses are only able reopening Monday (for most likely a short lived return)

All of the above to facilitate the schools reopening. I have to say it does leave a sour taste, and there are many teachers out there who would not be in favour of the ASTI going about it this way to highlight concerns.

Well the lay offs are correlated with the schools staying open.

The_Brood · 20-09-2020 10:29AM

Isn't it grand that the lives of countless people around the world have been destroyed, either by the virus itself, or the economic or mental health ruin brought down by useless government lockdowns, because a significant proportion of human beings, considered the most intelligent creature to ever walk the earth, cannot simply wear a mask and stay a firm 2 meters away from non household members?

I think in schools they have to start teaching that humans have the potential for intelligence, but that is something to work toward, not something you are automatically born with. The danger of the current approach is we are left with people dumb as a rock thinking they know everything simply by virtue of being born human. And they are the ones destroying us right now.

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 10:30AM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

All workers are entitled to highlight concerns they have about safety.

But threatening industrial action,

•Only 3 weeks after schools have resumed
•The day after 50,000 people have been laid off yet again
•Having been paid full for 6 months and protected
•While huge sacrifices have been made and some businesses are only able reopening Monday (for most likely a short lived return)

All of the above to facilitate the schools reopening. I have to say it does leave a sour taste, and there are many teachers out there who would not be in favour of the ASTI going about it this way to highlight concerns.

Viruses do not take more than 3 weeks to infect people and whilst teachers have family in various industries who have suffered through Covid then this does not give an excuse or free pass for negligence in schools.

Emotional blackmail is all you're at.

niallo27 · 20-09-2020 10:30AM

I know 2 young teachers, well young as in their late 30s and they just want to work but its mainly the older teachers acting the gowl who just want to take advantage of the situation to retire early. I wouldn't blame them really but its not helping the rest of us in the country.

is_that_so · 20-09-2020 10:30AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So you expect teachers to work in unsafe environments?

They seem to think it safe to threaten a strike in a pandemic. That would be yet another embarrassing headline and a world first. Strikes are a failure of communication - they need to get communicating.

Gruffalux · 20-09-2020 10:31AM

is_that_so wrote: »

No, we all make our own choices about this. If you go into a pub you accept that risk just as the person in that video accepts the risk from spray. I don't think pubs being open with controls will encourage it to run rampant. Where incidents occur they can be closed. That is more likely to occur where people's guard is down in uncontrolled situations.

Why do we all get to make our own choices about this particular public health issue. We don't get to make our own choices about where to smoke, how to drive, what drugs to take, we can be prosecuted for knowingly infecting people with diseases, we have to have cards saying we have vaccinations for certain things before getting visas, we have to close places if certain diseases crop up in them like Legionnaires. And on and on. And yet regarding a novel virus with an IFR of 0.4 - 0.7% we get to make our own personal choices for the wider public good about this?

jackboy · 20-09-2020 10:32AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

So you expect teachers to work in unsafe environments?

10,000’s of Irish people work in far more hazardous workplaces. They manage the hazards as best as possible and get on with it.

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 10:33AM

niallo27 wrote: »

I know 2 young teachers, well young as in their late 30s and they just want to work but its mainly the older teachers acting the gowl who just want to take advantage of the situation to retire early. I wouldn't blame them really but its not helping the rest of us in the country.

Many are retiring in October anyway.
Retirements have nothing to do with it.
So you can quit lying.

Away With The Fairies · 20-09-2020 10:38AM

jackboy wrote: »

10,000’s of Irish people work in far more hazardous workplaces. They manage the hazards as best as possible and get on with it.

Alot of workers working in hazardous workplaces have PPE. Are teachers and students wearing face masks here? We're also allowing kids with the sniffles into schools as well. Can't blame the teachers.

Hawthorn Tree · 20-09-2020 10:38AM

niallo27 wrote: »

I know 2 young teachers, well young as in their late 30s and they just want to work but its mainly the older teachers acting the gowl who just want to take advantage of the situation to retire early. I wouldn't blame them really but its not helping the rest of us in the country.

Primary/Secondary teaching will be online again from mid to late October. The teachers have more time to prepare their students for that.
Online works for the good teachers who put in the hours but there is also room for neglect. It works better for households that have laptops but not all have.

20-09-2020 10:39AM

is_that_so wrote: »

If it gets into my pint and meets stomach acid it's toast! If you're in a pub you have processed the risk, either by not caring or by deeming it acceptable. We will need to get back to that perception at some point or resign ourselves to a quiet drink at home indefinitely.

Wasn't it found that covid might survive in the gut when the drink water to prevent covid advice from Dr Facebook was debunked?

The amount of alcohol in a pint wouldn't have to much of an effect on it but open to correction if anyone can point me to the research.

niallo27 · 20-09-2020 10:39AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Many are retiring in October anyway.
Retirements have nothing to do with it.
So you can quit lying.

This is coming from teachers themselves, they just want to teach.

20-09-2020 10:41AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Why were students of close COVID contacts on the same class told to carry on without any testing?

I will tell you why as the HSE replied on Twitter to this.

They stated they were satisifed with the school's COVID preventative measures.

That does not sound like 22 tests per case to me.

That sounds like negligence and would not be tolerated in any other workplace.

So they are lying when they say they tested 2100 contacts of 96 school cases?

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 10:43AM

niallo27 wrote: »

This is coming from teachers themselves, they just want to teach.

I'm a teacher.
I've enjoyed returning and getting back to work.
I am not enjoying what I am hearing is going on in schools re protection of students and staff.

Do you want to wait until people in schools die?

jackboy · 20-09-2020 10:44AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Alot of workers working in hazardous workplaces have PPE. Are teachers and students wearing face masks here? We're also allowing kids with the sniffles into schools as well. Can't blame the teachers.

In most other workplaces local management and employees come up with solutions and implement them. They don’t threaten strike. Any school that strikes should at a minimum produce a detailed report of the issues, the actions they took to resolve the issues, why the actions did not work and what they expect to resolve the strike.

lulublue22 · 20-09-2020 10:45AM

niallo27 wrote: »

I know 2 young teachers, well young as in their late 30s and they just want to work but its mainly the older teachers acting the gowl who just want to take advantage of the situation to retire early. I wouldn't blame them really but its not helping the rest of us in the country.

Sorry but you do come up with some dingers - older teachers will retire if they want - every year a cohort go in Sep / Oct this year will be no different. Those who want to and can will go - the schools open / closed blended learning hybrid learning will not affect that.

niallo27 · 20-09-2020 10:45AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

I'm a teacher.
I've enjoyed returning and getting back to work.
I am not enjoying what I am hearing is going on in schools re protection of students and staff.

Do you want to wait until people in schools die?

Whats your own personal experience like if you mind me asking.

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 10:46AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

So they are lying when they say they tested 2100 contacts of 96 school cases?

There is evidence of negligence and once that is the case then lying usually accompanies that.

Ireland is a corrupt country.

We have had more scandals since independence than most countries could provide in a thousand generations.

lulublue22 · 20-09-2020 10:46AM

jackboy wrote: »

In most other workplaces local management and employees come up with solutions and implement them. They don’t threaten strike. Any school that strikes should at a minimum produce a detailed report of the issues, the actions they took to resolve the issues, why the actions did not work and what they expect to resolve the strike.

You say that as if it would be problematic for schools to do so ?

Away With The Fairies · 20-09-2020 10:47AM

jackboy wrote: »

In most other workplaces local management and employees come up with solutions and implement them. They don’t threaten strike. Any school that strikes should at a minimum produce a detailed report of the issues, the actions they took to resolve the issues, why the actions did not work and what they expect to resolve the strike.

There are problems in schools that a blind man can see. How are these problems being fixed by our government or whoever fixes them? Teachers are being ignored with their concerns.

jackboy · 20-09-2020 10:47AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

You say that as if it would be problematic for schools to do so ?

Maybe it would not be problematic. Each individual school should do it though for transparency.

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 10:51AM

niallo27 wrote: »

Whats your own personal experience like if you mind me asking.

Enjoying the return to work.
The masks situation has been better than expected as students and their parents have been superb.
Working at normal pace so no major disruptions.
Social distancing not happening but then expected that.
People are going for covid tests and are responsible about it.
Can no longer visit my parents.

On other hand i am hearing through the grapevine of incredible stories of negligence from govt and HSE.

Even on a basic level when you are telling teachers to open schools (some without masks) if/when we reach level 5 at a time when up to 50-100 people could be dying per day in IRL.....that sort of tells its own story.

20-09-2020 10:53AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There is evidence of negligence and once that is the case then lying usually accompanies that.

Ireland is a corrupt country.

We have had more scandals since independence than most countries could provide in a thousand generations.

Well that is just nonsense. Ireland is ranked alongside the likes of France and Portugal in Europe on corruption. No as good as Scandinavia or Germany, but well ahead of most of the med and Eastern Europe.

We were told last week that they didn’t want to publish school testing data, now when they have, we are told they are lying.

lulublue22 · 20-09-2020 10:53AM

jackboy wrote: »

Maybe it would not be problematic. Each individual school should do it though for transparency.

I’d have no problem with that - I don’t support strike action at the moment and as not ASTI not relevant to me but there are issues across the education setting and we have a duty of care to address them.

crossman47 · 20-09-2020 10:56AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There is evidence of negligence and once that is the case then lying usually accompanies that.

Ireland is a corrupt country.

We have had more scandals since independence than most countries could provide in a thousand generations.

OTT by a factor of 1000

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 10:57AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Well that is just nonsense. Ireland is ranked alongside the likes of France and Portugal in Europe on corruption. No as good as Scandinavia or Germany, but well ahead of most of the med and Eastern Europe.

We were told last week that they happen didn’t want to publish school testing data, now when they have, we are told they are lying.

Your problem is you do not know the history of your own country i'm afraid.

In the 80s and 90s corruption was rife.

2008 we legalised the bail out of an entire class of negligent people and socialised their debts.

Homelessness and social depravation are manifestations of that corruption.

We have already had a COVID scandal with what went on in the Care Homes in Spring where the elderly were basically told to get lost and die.

caveat emptor · 20-09-2020 10:59AM

is_that_so wrote: »

No, we all make our own choices about this. If you go into a pub you accept that risk just as the person in that video accepts the risk from spray. I don't think pubs being open with controls will encourage it to run rampant. Where incidents occur they can be closed. That is more likely to occur where people's guard is down in uncontrolled situations.

Is that not why we have drink driving laws. The risk is increased exponentially with each drink. How is it controlled and prohibited in one scenario but not in another.

The very act of having several pints decreases your risk perception.

That man clearly didn’t know he was soaking his drinking buddy. I’m sure he’d try not spit on him if he could see the video.

Same way a drink driver doesn’t know that they are not in control.

20-09-2020 11:00AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Your problem is you do not know the history of your own country i'm afraid.

In the 80s and 90s corruption was rife.

2008 we legalised the bail out of an entire class of negligent people and socialised their debts.

Homelessness and social depravation are manifestations of that corruption.

We have already had a COVID scandal with what went on in the Care Homes in Spring where the elderly were basically told to get lost and die.

Sweet Jesus. Just like those mega corrupt failed states of Belgium the Netherlands and sweden

s1ippy · 20-09-2020 11:00AM

jackboy wrote: »

In most other workplaces local management and employees come up with solutions and implement them. They don’t threaten strike. Any school that strikes should at a minimum produce a detailed report of the issues, the actions they took to resolve the issues, why the actions did not work and what they expect to resolve the strike.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/asti-to-ballot-for-industrial-action-over-covid-19-safety-concerns-1.4359606?mode=amp

You'd better include doctors in that too because they're sick to sh!t of their treatment as well.

On Friday public health doctors who are to the forefront in the fight against Covid-19 said they would ballot for industrial action before Christmas if the Government did not resolve a pay issue .

There are also growing tensions between health service trade unions and the HSE over redeployment and working arrangements.

Last week, health service trade unions told the HSE that an overall agreement reached earlier this year to facilitate the re-deployment of staff as part of dealing with the Covid-19 pandemic was “null and void”.

Unions said they would engage with health service management about individual or collective re-deployment of members on a case- by- case basis.

“However, that engagement is conditional on the HSE demonstrating a commitment to appropriate, full, and meaningful engagement and consultation on all matters.”

The letter sent this week shows further strains in the relationship between health service unions and management over what they see as a lack of consultation on a number of issues.

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 11:04AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Sweet Jesus. Just like those mega corrupt failed states of Belgium the Netherlands and sweden

Anti-corruption index rubbish is just that.
Complete rubbish.

Go and learn about your own country & its history.

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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