Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

Funsterdelux · 20-09-2020 09:42AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He has a point though..

If I borrowed €1000 from you and instead of giving your money back presented a 5 point plan that didn't involve you getting the €1000 back would you still give me the loan?

Oh yeah, I never thought of it like that!

robbiezero · 20-09-2020 09:42AM

Gruffalox wrote: »

Way back at some point last night I saw someone mention Iceland, so I gots to thinking, how is old Iceland doing these days. Since they have been rather efficient from the start and have had only 10 deaths. They have done a fair amount of testing of general population, and have researched well the longevity of antibodies.
They have a population of 370,000 or so, and 2,300 cases. That would be in or around the same vicinity percentage wise as our found and declared cases (although we had lots lots more and I could not say the same for iceland who have had a better ability to get closer to the reality). 10 deaths is way lower than us percentage wise (population). BTW that's an IFR of 0.43%.
Anyways, lo and behold, in the past few days they are having a problem because of a pub called the Irishman. As far as I can make out they decided to swiftly shut down all pubs this weekend for 4 days to put a stop to the superspreading shenanigans and perhaps have a minute to work things out.

https://grapevine.is/news/2020/09/18/pubs-to-close-over-weekend-due-to-covid-rise/

Now that's what you call proper contact tracing. A place and a time.

is_that_so · 20-09-2020 09:43AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

He has a point though..

If I borrowed €1000 from you and instead of giving your money back presented a 5 point plan that didn't involve you getting the €1000 back would you still give me the loan?

This looks an equation that doesn't work at all in any form of logic. Individual behaviour is not the government and they are not us.

petes · 20-09-2020 09:43AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So closing Supermarkets, essential business is ok? my challenging such a comment is just a different opinion? Dude when you wish to have some credibility and longevity as a WUM you also have to have some cop on. Sadly you are lacking. Try harder next time ask some of the more established WUM for pointers. Try the lad that posts false tweets he has a loyal following.

Thanks for the laugh first thing, love a bit of irony.

20-09-2020 09:44AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

The issue on schools was inevitable. Hairdressers taking one client at a time, no one allowed in McDonalds (take outs only), queues back outside Tesco ... and teachers are in classes of 30 and the HSE do not want to test students who are close contacts to other students who have tested positive. In primary schools, where the facts are showing that younger kids are contracting and spreading the virus, masks are not even worn.

Why on Earth would anyone object to teachers using their union, as is their right, to raise their concerns and objections?

Sadly there are many who hate teachers in Ireland and it is probably jealousy because of their holidays. Many don't care and are not in the slighest bit bothered.

But teachers are mainly taking action for society this time. Sure they're on the frontline but, hey, you're not getting away with such blatant negligence at home if you are close to someone attending schools.

Did 96 cases in schools not result in testing of 2100 contacts which only found 35 more cases?

is_that_so · 20-09-2020 09:46AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Government might as well post a year supply of Vitamin D and slimfast shakes to every house in the country at this stage

Yearly NCT for humans should been brought in years ago tbf

We monitor livestock health better here

Livestock have limited rights and don't go to court over them. One can encourage and promote good health practices but health is a personal responsibility.

OscarMIlde · 20-09-2020 09:47AM

Queried wrote: »

I agree, the biggest issue I have as a teacher is the feeling that the wool is being pulled over my eyes. No transparency. We are finding out about the cases anyway, why don't they just report them? I'd trust decisions more if I knew we were being given all information and information wasn't being withheld.

I'm guessing the reason is that schools were (magically) supposed to put in place enough measures that teachers wouldn't be regarded as close contacts if a student became sick. I know in my work I am required to keep 2 metres away from a colleague if in their presence for more than 15 minutes. If that can't be done then we must both wear masks. That way neither of us are regarded as close contacts of each other despite working together, and if one gets sick the other continues working.

Obviously given how schools work, I imagine it's next to impossible to wear a mask all day and communicate effectively with children/teenagers, so this rule is likely violated. The best thing to recommend at this time for your safety is to open windows while the weather permits and mask (with use of hand sanitiser after touching the mask) where possible.

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 09:48AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Did 96 cases in schools not result in testing of 2100 contacts which only found 35 more cases?

Perhaps they did.

This doesn't negate the fact that the HSE has told close contacts of COVID carriers in schools to "carry on ... there's nothing to see here"

Whataboutery does not work.

Even the plan released on Tuesday has mandatory masks in retail services at level 1 as schools are told to.open without masks at level 5.

Where is the fast track testing service that schools were promised?

is_that_so · 20-09-2020 09:49AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Can’t see how it could spread in a pub in all honesty.

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1307512001812475904?s=21

For an "eminent scientist" he really is little more than a glorified attention seeker.

20-09-2020 09:50AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Perhaps they did.

This doesn't negate the fact that the HSE has told close contacts of COVID carriers in schools to "carry on ... there's nothing to see here"

Whataboutery does not work.

Even the plan released on Tuesday has mandatory masks in retail services at level 1 as schools are told to.open without masks at level 5.

Where is the fast track testing service that schools were promised?

They averaged 22 tests per case. That’s pretty comprehensive.

caveat emptor · 20-09-2020 09:51AM

is_that_so wrote: »

For an "eminent scientist" he really is little more than a glorified attention seeker.

It's a video of droplets exploding out of some auld fellas mouth. I think you are reading too much into who is posting it.

It's hard to discredit what you are watching because you are seeing it with your own eyes. Best to attack the person posting it.

It looks to be from Scotland.

is_that_so · 20-09-2020 09:51AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

Perhaps they did.

This doesn't negate the fact that the HSE has told close contacts of COVID carriers in schools to "carry on ... there's nothing to see here"

Whataboutery does not work.

Even the plan released on Tuesday has mandatory masks in retail services at level 1 as schools are told to.open without masks at level 5.

Where is the fast track testing service that schools were promised?

HSE has said they make the call on notifications based on current circumstances.

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 09:51AM

OscarMIlde wrote: »

I'm guessing the reason is that schools were (magically) supposed to put in place enough measures that teachers wouldn't be regarded as close contacts if a student became sick. I know in my work I am required to keep 2 metres away from a colleague if in their presence for more than 15 minutes. If that can't be done then we must both wear masks. That way neither of us are regarded as close contacts of each other despite working together, and if one gets sick the other continues working.

Obviously given how schools work, I imagine it's next to impossible to wear a mask all day and communicate effectively with children/teenagers, so this rule is likely violated. The best thing to recommend at this time for your safety is to open windows while the weather permits and mask (with use of hand sanitiser after touching the mask) where possible.

There's no social distancing going on in schools. The buildings are too small with too many cramped into them.

DES and HSE knew this was the case but went and did a PR job on 1 m social distancing knowing that it was not implementable.

MerlinSouthDub · 20-09-2020 09:52AM

is_that_so wrote: »

For an "eminent scientist" he really is little more than a glorified attention seeker.

He serves a useful purpose. Any time someone posts his tweets here, I immediately know that the poster can be ignored. Handy.

Funsterdelux · 20-09-2020 09:53AM

is_that_so wrote: »

For an "eminent scientist" he really is little more than a glorified attention seeker.

Just put yourself in the seat of the other beer's drinker.

caveat emptor · 20-09-2020 09:54AM

Here's the same video from the original poster if that helps people deal with the reality.
AFAIK you can still see the spit flying.

https://twitter.com/LeeNewton89/status/1306962498160152577?s=20

is_that_so · 20-09-2020 09:55AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

It's a video of droplets exploding out of some auld fellas mouth. I think you are reading too much into who is posting it.

It's hard to discredit what you are watching because you are seeing it with your own eyes. Best to attack the person posting it.

It looks to be from Scotland.

Video is fine, messenger is a self-promoting tool and has been all the way through this. In normal times you'd be indifferent to this type of thing but some people, like him, are all a-tingly at finding something new to promote themselves.

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 09:56AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They averaged 22 tests per case. That’s pretty comprehensive.

Why were students of close COVID contacts on the same class told to carry on without any testing?

I will tell you why as the HSE replied on Twitter to this.

They stated they were satisifed with the school's COVID preventative measures.

That does not sound like 22 tests per case to me.

That sounds like negligence and would not be tolerated in any other workplace.

is_that_so · 20-09-2020 09:58AM

Funsterdelux wrote: »

Just put yourself in the seat of the other beer's drinker.

And I would have said "say it don't spray it" long before the citizen journalist posted it. Such a scenario also presumes a risk of infection, not spittle raining down.

Funsterdelux · 20-09-2020 09:58AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Here's the same video from the original poster if that helps people deal with the reality.

https://twitter.com/LeeNewton89/status/1306962498160152577?s=20

I cant stand that Lee Newton fella

Funsterdelux · 20-09-2020 10:00AM

is_that_so wrote: »

And I would have said "say it don't spray it" long before the citizen journalist posted it. Such a scenario also presumes a risk of infection, not spittle raining down.

Would drink your pint?

Would you risk it for a biscuit?

is_that_so · 20-09-2020 10:05AM

Funsterdelux wrote: »

Would drink your pint?

Would you risk it for a biscuit?

If it gets into my pint and meets stomach acid it's toast! If you're in a pub you have processed the risk, either by not caring or by deeming it acceptable. We will need to get back to that perception at some point or resign ourselves to a quiet drink at home indefinitely.

20-09-2020 10:05AM

OscarMIlde wrote: »

I'm guessing the reason is that schools were (magically) supposed to put in place enough measures that teachers wouldn't be regarded as close contacts if a student became sick. I know in my work I am required to keep 2 metres away from a colleague if in their presence for more than 15 minutes. If that can't be done then we must both wear masks. That way neither of us are regarded as close contacts of each other despite working together, and if one gets sick the other continues working.

Obviously given how schools work, I imagine it's next to impossible to wear a mask all day and communicate effectively with children/teenagers, so this rule is likely violated. The best thing to recommend at this time for your safety is to open windows while the weather permits and mask (with use of hand sanitiser after touching the mask) where possible.

Should not be ruled out of contact tracing because you are wearing a mask

Gruffalux · 20-09-2020 10:12AM

is_that_so wrote: »

If you're in a pub you have processed the risk, either by not caring or by deeming it acceptable. We will need to get back to that perception at some point or resign ourselves to a quiet drink at home indefinitely.

That may be so on a personal level. I think people are entitled to that risk assessment.
But for those who are in charge of running the country the increasing presence (or resurgence) of a highly contagious virus (ie one that spreads extremely easily) that kills 1 in every 200 that catch it, and that causes ongoing life-limiting morbidity in an as yet undefinable percentage (however small) that catch it, cannot be allowed to run rampant through the population, until at least it is far better scientifically understood. That is their position. Not one I would like to have to manage. Perhaps you think it too paternalistic. I don't, as of now. I may change my mind further on.

mountgomery burns · 20-09-2020 10:18AM

All workers are entitled to highlight concerns they have about safety.

But threatening industrial action,

•Only 3 weeks after schools have resumed
•The day after 50,000 people have been laid off yet again
•Having been paid full for 6 months and protected
•While huge sacrifices have been made and some businesses are only able reopening Monday (for most likely a short lived return)

All of the above to facilitate the schools reopening. I have to say it does leave a sour taste, and there are many teachers out there who would not be in favour of the ASTI going about it this way to highlight concerns.

Funsterdelux · 20-09-2020 10:20AM

is_that_so wrote: »

If it gets into my pint and meets stomach acid it's toast! If you're in a pub you have processed the risk, either by not caring or by deeming it acceptable. We will need to get back to that perception at some point or resign ourselves to a quiet drink at home indefinitely.

Im just mindful of a section of punters that wouldnt have an in built risk assessment.

If I was to be pedantic i would say the beer has to pass through your mouth and throat. And youd be touching the glass.

is_that_so · 20-09-2020 10:20AM

Gruffalox wrote: »

That may be so on a personal level. I think people are entitled to that risk assessment.
But for those who are in charge of running the country the increasing presence (or resurgence) of a highly contagious virus (ie one that spreads extremely easily) that kills 1 in every 200 that catch it, and that causes ongoing life-limiting morbidity in an as yet undefinable percentage (however small) that catch it, cannot be allowed to run rampant through the population, until at least it is far better scientifically understood. That is their position. Not one I would like to have to manage. Perhaps you think it too paternalistic. I don't, as of now. I may change my mind further on.

No, we all make our own choices about this. If you go into a pub you accept that risk just as the person in that video accepts the risk from spray. I don't think pubs being open with controls will encourage it to run rampant. Where incidents occur they can be closed. That is more likely to occur where people's guard is down in uncontrolled situations.

is_that_so · 20-09-2020 10:21AM

Funsterdelux wrote: »

Im just mindful of a section of punters that wouldnt have an in built risk assessment.

If I was to be pedantic i would say the beer has to pass through your mouth and throat. And youd be touching the glass.

But so heavily diluted as to be less harmful than the alcohol!

OscarMIlde · 20-09-2020 10:22AM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

There's no social distancing going on in schools. The buildings are too small with too many cramped into them.

DES and HSE knew this was the case but went and did a PR job on 1 m social distancing knowing that it was not implementable.

Oh. I completely agree. But I'm guessing the dept of Education put the onus on schools to implement unworkable guidelines so they can claim a teacher is not a close contact of any infected pupils.

Away With The Fairies · 20-09-2020 10:27AM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

All workers are entitled to highlight concerns they have about safety.

But threatening industrial action,

•Only 3 weeks after schools have resumed
•The day after 50,000 people have been laid off yet again
•Having been paid full for 6 months and protected
•While huge sacrifices have been made and some businesses are only able reopening Monday (for most likely a short lived return)

All of the above to facilitate the schools reopening. I have to say it does leave a sour taste, and there are many teachers out there who would not be in favour of the ASTI going about it this way to highlight concerns.

So you expect teachers to work in unsafe environments?

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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