Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

marno21 · 17-09-2020 09:37PM

Skitting at this.

https://twitter.com/AreYou_Caden_Me/status/1306607192481705984

Jokes aside though, the food processing sector went quiet case wise for a while. Wasn't it last week that routine testing was suspended?

ACitizenErased · 17-09-2020 09:37PM

ixoy wrote: »

Well we can at least ask why restaurants and cafés are being targeted if, by their own reports, it's barely a source of transmission.

We could question why a place with some modicum of control over people meeting is being shut down - with the economic hit for the people employed.

Do they believe now that the people meeting - who were after all already in violation of advice by meeting people from different households - will now give up or, instead, mix and mingle potentially within their homes? Which, as is being pointed out, is where the problem lies.

Asking why is frowned upon, unfortunately.

17-09-2020 09:38PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

My GP in Dublin thinks that this is overkill. He thinks this will cost lives not save lives. He thinks this will lead to underinvestment in the health service for the next two decades and he thinks NPHET advising the Government is madness given a big chunk of these people have mismanaged the health service for many years.

So no, all the GPs in Dublin do not think this.

I've a feeling I know your GP, used to be my GP. Very vocal, very tall, and very opinionated, got in with him well, but not everyone does. He used always be on the radio, Prime Time etc, haven't heard him in ages.

screamer · 17-09-2020 09:38PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Open wet pubs with extra regulations & time limits, force people out of homes and into controlled environments. Limit home gatherings and introduce heavy fines if caught.
The clear issue right now is home gatherings, not people having a burger down the local.

House parties have become the norm though now, with no enforcement people will just continue as they always have. Again, shut down the house parties open the pubs, it’s like whack a mole. Transmission will reduce because of house parties but continue because of pub going. Pubs might think it’s more controlled, but people off their heads don’t tend to follow rules. Everyone might be social distancing but they’re using the same toilets, a prime location for transmission. There’s no real way to stop the transmission bar cutting out social interaction for the sake of it and imagine the whinging then.

hetuzozaho · 17-09-2020 09:38PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

But there's nothing stopping anyone from doing it? No fines, no warnings, no nothing.

Do we really need that to get behind a cause to help out in a pandemic?

I am dissapoint ha

gmisk · 17-09-2020 09:38PM

CiarraiManc wrote: »

Should never have been let open in the first place imo. Just looking for trouble

Why not?
Are they closed anywhere else in europe?
Are we not the only country in europe that hasn't opened wet pubs?

drunkmonkey · 17-09-2020 09:39PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Rest of the country will follow soon enough me thinks.

They will yea....won't be locking us down again after Monday...

ACitizenErased · 17-09-2020 09:39PM

screamer wrote: »

House parties have become the norm though now, with no enforcement people will just continue as they always have. Again, shut down the house parties open the pubs, it’s like whack a mole. Transmission will reduce because of house parties but continue because of pub going. Pubs might think it’s more controlled, but people off their heads don’t tend to follow rules. Everyone might be social distancing but they’re using the same toilets, a prime location for transmission. There’s no real way to stop the transmission bar cutting out social interaction for the sake of it.

Pubs are open right now. Do people really think the €9 meal is stopping all drunken behaviour? If that was an issue, we'd have seen it.

Happydays2020 · 17-09-2020 09:40PM

CiarraiManc wrote: »

If a group of 12 mechanics told you that your car needed to be fixed urgently and one said it was in perfect nick who would you listen to

The one who actually fixed cars and has not his hands dirty for 40 plus years Or the 11 other lads who sit in an office looking at car parts on the Internet?

I know who I would listen to.

hetuzozaho · 17-09-2020 09:40PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Pubs are open right now. Do people really think the €9 meal is stopping all drunken behaviour? If that was an issue, we'd have seen it.

It's definitely helping. As otherwise we wouldn't have a whole thread asking to do away with it.

People aren't out as much because of it

growleaves · 17-09-2020 09:40PM

I don't agree with your interpretation Gruffalox but thanks for writing.

There is no separation between scientific fact (hand hygiene) and unproven scientific theories (social distancing, masks). They come in a bundle. People 'believe in' the latter and then interpret facts in light of them. We do not know if these containment methods are ontologically real but we proceed as if they were, declaring them to be effectively un-falsifiable. Not only do people not ask for proof of the efficacy of these methods they get offended when someone does (why?)

The combination of the containment methods being destructive, unverifiable, having no time limit and little or no historical precedent is why I don't support them.

It would only leave a terrible historical legacy to revoke the restrictions if history is written by confused people. The creation of a medical-bureaucratic surveillance state with limited movement and mandatory social isolation is a loss of a sense of probity. If the people of the future are clear-headed (or maybe that should be clear-hearted) then lockdown will be the historical scandal.

yourdeadwright · 17-09-2020 09:41PM

It's crazy if you ask me,
Wasn't the the while plan rolled out on Tuesday called living with Covid?
Doesn't seem to be the strategy at all, Its run from covid
Its not going away and vaccine isn't in sight either

Ficheall · 17-09-2020 09:41PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Yes I gave the chances of catching it today and the chances of dieing from it today, I also did it on average for the year. I didn't hide anything in my post I stately clearly it was for today.

Right. So taking the one day in isolation, as you did, with a chance of infection on a given day at 1/20000, I multiplied that by 365 to give an approximation for the year, which was about 1 in 55 or whatever. So if it were reasonable to draw any conclusions from one day, as you did, it would also be reasonable to extrapolate to the year.
I don't believe it's reasonable to extrapolate from one day, and so I gave the example that the same approach in July (using a rate of about 10 cases per day) would have put you at a 1 in 1300 chance of being infected in a given year, to suggest that (a) it's not a reliable approach to base things on one day and (b) if you were doing that, then the significantly increased risk of being infected should give cause for concern.
That's all.

DangerScouse · 17-09-2020 09:41PM

screamer wrote: »

House parties have become the norm though now, with no enforcement people will just continue as they always have. Again, shut down the house parties open the pubs, it’s like whack a mole. Transmission will reduce because of house parties but continue because of pub going. Pubs might think it’s more controlled, but people off their heads don’t tend to follow rules. Everyone might be social distancing but they’re using the same toilets, a prime location for transmission. There’s no real way to stop the transmission bar cutting out social interaction for the sake of it and imagine the whinging then.

Opening pubs will make no difference. Scumbags who are having house parties will either continue to have them or fail to social distance in the pubs.

caveat emptor · 17-09-2020 09:41PM

Can we agree that it's a second wave yet?

CiarraiManc · 17-09-2020 09:41PM

gmisk wrote: »

Why not?
Are they closed anywhere else in europe?
Are we not the only country in europe that hasn't opened wet pubs?

Irish people have an unhealthy relationship with drink they can't control themselves with alcohol taken and turn into handsy sloppy drunks. Not what we need atm

screamer · 17-09-2020 09:42PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Pubs are open right now. Do people really think the €9 meal is stopping all drunken behaviour? If that was an issue, we'd have seen it.

Pubs are not all open, the wet pubs are only getting going, give it time, covid will too.

ACitizenErased · 17-09-2020 09:42PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It's crazy if you ask me,
Wasn't the the while plan rolled out on Tuesday called living with Covid?
Doesn't seem to be the strategy at all, Its run from covid
Its not going away and vaccine isn't in sight either

Exactly. We need to get on with things as best we can. Hospitals are coping, not anywhere near the peak from April and that's all that matters, in reality.

hetuzozaho · 17-09-2020 09:42PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

It's crazy if you ask me,
Wasn't the the while plan rolled out on Tuesday called living with Covid?
Doesn't seem to be the strategy at all, Its run from covid
Its not going away and vaccine isn't in sight either

The living with covid doesn't work because people are either finding loopholes. Or finding reasons why they deserve to have the lads over.

This virus spreads.

ACitizenErased · 17-09-2020 09:42PM

screamer wrote: »

Pubs are not all open, the wet pubs are only getting going, give it time, covid will too.

Pubs are open, with bags of chips. If you honestly think the bag of chips is making a difference, you're delusional.

CiarraiManc · 17-09-2020 09:43PM

Happydays2020 wrote: »

The one who actually fixed cars and has not his hands dirty for 40 plus years Or the 11 other lads who sit in an office looking at car parts on the Internet?

I know who I would listen to.

So you'll take the word of this gp you read about on a message board who may not even exist over NPHET?

ACitizenErased · 17-09-2020 09:44PM

CiarraiManc wrote: »

So you'll take the word of this go you read about on a message board who may not even exist over NPHET?

There is nobody qualified to deal with COVID, because it didn't exist before last year. Everyone's as qualified as everyone else is.

17-09-2020 09:44PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Exactly. We need to get on with things as best we can. Hospitals are coping, not anywhere near the peak from April and that's all that matters, in reality.

Why are hospitals a lot less busy but cases are at March levels all over Europe?

gmisk · 17-09-2020 09:45PM

CiarraiManc wrote: »

Irish people have an unhealthy relationship with drink they can't control themselves with alcohol taken and turn into handsy sloppy drunks. Not what we need atm

Then get tighter with the checks etc
At least leave the restaurants open ffs!

I have been out maybe 10 times for food since this all, every single place has limited numbers, spaced out, hand sanitizer masks and the rest.

ACitizenErased · 17-09-2020 09:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are hospitals a lot less busy but cases are at March levels all over Europe?

Because March level =/= today's level. Based on an IFR of 0.6% we missed 9 out of 10 cases.

Happydays2020 · 17-09-2020 09:45PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've a feeling I know your GP, used to be my GP. Very vocal, very tall, and very opinionated, got in with him well, but not everyone does. He used always be on the radio, Prime Time etc, haven't heard him in ages.

Actually not him. And this was a very quiet careful opinion. He is a good doc. Looked after my grandparents and is GP to my parents. Good doc who will enjoy life and not wag fingers but gives good and reasonable advice.

screamer · 17-09-2020 09:46PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Pubs are open, with bags of chips. If you honestly think the bag of chips is making a difference, you're delusional.

I never said that don’t be so quick to jump down my throat. Pubs as in booze only pubs are not open. When they do, we’ll see a rise in covid yet again. The food and time restrictions were to restrict the amount of booze that people could throw down their necks, with no food needed, it’ll just be get p:seed and see covid rise again.

17-09-2020 09:46PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Can we agree that it's a second wave yet?

Yet sickness is a lot less.

Sierra Oscar · 17-09-2020 09:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Why are hospitals a lot less busy but cases are at March levels all over Europe?

Possibly it was a lot more prevalent in the community back in March but wasn't been captured due to a lack of testing.

Even though the positive tests might be akin to the start of the outbreak at the minute, it's possible that it's still far less prevalent in the community now due to extensive testing. Of course the worry health officials have is that what we are seeing now might be what was happening on the ground in February or so.

Arghus · 17-09-2020 09:47PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Open wet pubs with extra regulations & time limits, force people out of homes and into controlled environments. Limit home gatherings and introduce heavy fines if caught.
The clear issue right now is home gatherings, not people having a burger down the local.

That's great in theory Citizen, but I think in terms of legality, enforcibility and logistics, putting the emphasis on punative measures directed at households and homeowners is far more difficult and borderline unenforceable. Gardaí can't even properly police the pubs that are flouting the restrictions as it is - do you think keeping on eye on homes all across the land instead is somehow going to be easier? I would argue that expecting the Gardaí or others to effectively police home gatherings is logistically impossible - and not to mention the question of the legality of it all. I think you have extremely unrealistic expectations about the state's ability to have much of an effect on home gatherings.

And how much personal automony do you desire to give away? Personally as much as I don't like to see local pubs and restaurants close, I'd rather have that than a situation where people have to be "forced out of their homes" - but the pubs can stay open.

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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