Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Penfailed

JRant wrote: »

LOI, GAA, and Rugby are all going to be completely destroyed financially unless the government are willing to pay 10's of millions next year. The damages to irresistible sport may take decades to recover from.

Irresistible?

JRant

Penfailed wrote: »

Irresistible?

Woops

JRant

Glynn talking about how the timing of "D'Plan" was unfortunate due to the rise in cases. Did it occur to them to maybe get a plan in place late May/early June when the numbers were well under control. By waiting so long it just delayed the inevitable. Looking at the headlines there and I think Dublin will be placed in Level 3 before the weekend. However, will that be the level 3 where pubs are allowed open or a level 3.1 where some additional little restrictions will be placed.

Assetbacked

https://www.rte.ie/

The hysteria is actually funny in a tragic way. Look at those headlines, do they not read the data or do they just go with the press releases they're told to follow? RTÉ suffering further financially is sort of what they deserve for peddling this hysteria.

average_runner

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I must apologise for my extended break. I have been to Paris, so, wow. Just wow. Are things different there.

1- masks. Masks masks masks, thankfully I was there before they were made mandatory outdoors. But in terms of metro, shops etc. compliance is very high (out of 3 hours in total I spent on metro, seeing 1000+ people, only 1 individual wasnt wearing a mask). Come back to Dublin, take a Luas, 4 people out of 15 dont wear d mask... I am home.

2- no queues. Nowhere. Not to any shop. very, very refreshing.

3- no social distancing. I suppose they basically say mask protects people, so no need to spread out. I've seen more social distance markings in AIB lower baggot street than I did in my week in Paris. They just dont do these markings.

incredible weather. for my mental health - i a m delighted I went. I highly recommend, especially with 13th of Oct EU aviation guidelines coming in

BTW - big difference between restrictions here and there, is that there they dont hesitate giving out fines. Give it out like candy. Girl on my train got fined, she had her mask on her chin, police guy came over and was like "give me your ID, fine will be posted to your home address" and walked off.... she said she had to pull it down to talk but he was having none of it.

PS beer was incredibly expensive. 8 - 9 euros per pint. ended up drinking wine which was, 50cl for like 10 euros. if you like beer - dont go to france.

Either you are talking rubbish or everyone that was in France on the travel forum are talking rubbish, as social distancing is well observed in France.

Even on france 24tv they are showing social distancing in Paris

Penfailed

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/

The hysteria is actually funny in a tragic way. Look at those headlines, do they not read the data or do they just go with the press releases they're told to follow? RTÉ suffering further financially is sort of what they deserve for peddling this hysteria.

Reporting the news is hysteria now? Okay.

road_high

Assetbacked wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/

The hysteria is actually funny in a tragic way. Look at those headlines, do they not read the data or do they just go with the press releases they're told to follow? RTÉ suffering further financially is sort of what they deserve for peddling this hysteria.

RTE is like a parody these days, complete joke of a media organization. I pity anyone that just relies on the it drivel as their only “news”.

Assetbacked

Penfailed wrote: »

Reporting the news is hysteria now? Okay.

"Timing of new plan 'unfortunate' given virus trajectory".

"Worrying Dublin data that NPHET must consider tomorrow".

"Further restrictions for Dublin a 'strong possibility'".

All of the above are headlines. None are based on the data which continuously shows that, as expected post-lockdown, cases are rising and the only vulnerable to it are those who are extremely old and vulnerable. Therefore, the negative headlines are a contradiction and as such based on hysteria.

For you, do yourself a favour and read the data. It might help your ignorance.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

_Kaiser_

road_high wrote: »

RTE is like a parody these days, complete joke of a media organization. I pity anyone that just relies on the it drivel as their only “news”.

I saw an ad during the 6.1 earlier that talked about how people shouldn't trust their feeds and held RTE News up as a source of truth.

Sure.. unless the story/facts doesn't fit the accepted narrative I guess!

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I must apologise for my extended break. I have been to Paris, so, wow. Just wow. Are things different there.

1- masks. Masks masks masks, thankfully I was there before they were made mandatory outdoors. But in terms of metro, shops etc. compliance is very high (out of 3 hours in total I spent on metro, seeing 1000+ people, only 1 individual wasnt wearing a mask). Come back to Dublin, take a Luas, 4 people out of 15 dont wear d mask... I am home.

2- no queues. Nowhere. Not to any shop. very, very refreshing.

3- no social distancing. I suppose they basically say mask protects people, so no need to spread out. I've seen more social distance markings in AIB lower baggot street than I did in my week in Paris. They just dont do these markings.

incredible weather. for my mental health - i a m delighted I went. I highly recommend, especially with 13th of Oct EU aviation guidelines coming in

BTW - big difference between restrictions here and there, is that there they dont hesitate giving out fines. Give it out like candy. Girl on my train got fined, she had her mask on her chin, police guy came over and was like "give me your ID, fine will be posted to your home address" and walked off.... she said she had to pull it down to talk but he was having none of it.

PS beer was incredibly expensive. 8 - 9 euros per pint. ended up drinking wine which was, 50cl for like 10 euros. if you like beer - dont go to france.

I'm struggling to determine if you are happy with the approach in France or not...?
Do you think that we should all be wearing masks or not as I remember you struggled to breathe when getting a haircut.
Since the mask thing came in here I haven't seen queues anywhere. Maybe it's different in the big smoke?
Would you support stricter restrictions regarding fines here, like Paris?
Yeah the weather is better...but the beer is more expensive.
Comme ci comme ca.

road_high

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I saw an ad during the 6.1 earlier that talked about how people shouldn't trust their feeds and held RTE News up as a source of truth.

Sure.. unless the story/facts doesn't fit the accepted narrative I guess!

The irony indeed...

CruelSummer

MadYaker wrote: »

First time I've seen someone put a figure on this but Dr. Colm Henry says up to one third of the Irish population would be considered part of the high risk group. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/doctor-resigns-from-hospital-group-after-comments-on-draconian-covid-19-curbs-1.4356244

One third is kind of what I was thinking it would be. Obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, asthma are all relatively common these days and across a wide spectrum of ages. Part of the reason that doctors comments were considered irresponsible. It's not really possible to cocoon one out of every 3 people in the country and still keep the country functioning.

I think this is in response to the ambiguity of their statement at the weekend to the media in response to the HSE doctor who was likening Covid to the flu. They clearly stated that ‘older and vulnerable’ populations needed protecting from Covid.
I raised the question and still do, how are we vulnerable, in what form and percentage. We are given no information. ‘As many as one in 3’ sounds like hyperbole to me. It either is, or it isn't. Where is the data and why can’t we see it, they’re basing their whole strategy on it.
If we’re basing destroying our economy and way of life to ‘keep Covid at bay’ then we need cold hard facts to back that up. We are in no way an old population in comparison to our European neighbours.

walus

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I saw an ad during the 6.1 earlier that talked about how people shouldn't trust their feeds and held RTE News up as a source of truth.

Sure.. unless the story/facts doesn't fit the accepted narrative I guess!

RTE are a great laugh I must say. I already learnt last week that no one is immune to Covid and that it is the virus that has crippled the economy. At this rate sometime between now and Christmas they will be telling people that earth is a flat disc sitting on top of seven crocodiles.

On a more serious note, in line with a trend for restrictions, I’ve restricted my family from watching RTÉ.

Stormyteacup

road_high wrote: »

The irony indeed...

You’d have to laugh only it’s beyond a horrifying joke now - are they still trotting out the line from WHO about 80% Of cases mild, 15% requiring oxygen and 5% requiring ventilation?

6,000 cases since end of June - are there 300 people on ventilators?

Stormyteacup

CruelSummer wrote: »

I think this is in response to the ambiguity of their statement at the weekend to the media in response to the HSE doctor who was likening Covid to the flu. They clearly stated that ‘older and vulnerable’ populations needed protecting from Covid.
I raised the question and still do, how are we vulnerable, in what form and percentage. We are given no information. ‘As many as one in 3’ sounds like hyperbole to me. It either is, or it isn't. Where is the data and why can’t we see it, they’re basing their whole strategy on it.
If we’re basing destroying our economy and way of life to ‘keep Covid at bay’ then we need cold hard facts to back that up. We are in no way an old population in comparison to our European neighbours.

Posted earlier that in 45% of Covid reported deaths chronic heart disease was present.

titan18

Penfailed wrote: »

I'm struggling to determine if you are happy with the approach in France or not...?
Do you think that we should all be wearing masks or not as I remember you struggled to breathe when getting a haircut.
Since the mask thing came in here I haven't seen queues anywhere. Maybe it's different in the big smoke?
Would you support stricter restrictions regarding fines here, like Paris?
Yeah the weather is better...but the beer is more expensive.
Comme ci comme ca.

As someone who watches cycling, and has been watching a lot of the Tour de France, I can say from what I've seen, there's a lot of French who won't wear masks too.

Penfailed

titan18 wrote: »

As someone who watches cycling, and has been watching a lot of the Tour de France, I can say from what I've seen, there's a lot of French who won't wear masks too.

It's not mandatory outdoors in most parts of France.

JRant

CruelSummer wrote: »

I think this is in response to the ambiguity of their statement at the weekend to the media in response to the HSE doctor who was likening Covid to the flu. They clearly stated that ‘older and vulnerable’ populations needed protecting from Covid.
I raised the question and still do, how are we vulnerable, in what form and percentage. We are given no information. ‘As many as one in 3’ sounds like hyperbole to me. It either is, or it isn't. Where is the data and why can’t we see it, they’re basing their whole strategy on it.
If we’re basing destroying our economy and way of life to ‘keep Covid at bay’ then we need cold hard facts to back that up. We are in no way an old population in comparison to our European neighbours.

Those stats only make sense if one third of the population are over 75. 121 people 65 and under have did with COVID and the vast majority of those that did pass would have have DNR signed in nursing homes. I say this not to make light of those poor people who did die but to try and stop the scaremongering that seems to have consumed every aspect of life.

It's everywhere you go, shops, restaurants, billboards, buses, trains, work, gyms, sports clubs, tv, online. It's mentally exhausting to be constantly bombarded with these messages everywhere you go.

This current plan offers no let up other than "be good little boys and girls and we might let you do some nice things".

Stormyteacup

JRant wrote: »

Those stats only make sense if one third of the population are over 75. 121 people 65 and under have did with COVID and the vast majority of those that did pass would have have DNR signed in nursing homes. I say this not to make light of those poor people who did die but to try and stop the scaremongering that seems to have consumed every aspect of life.

It's everywhere you go, shops, restaurants, billboards, buses, trains, work, gyms, sports clubs, tv, online. It's mentally exhausting to be constantly bombarded with these messages everywhere you go.

This current plan offers no let up other than "be good little boys and girls and we might let you do some nice things".

This exactly. On the main thread a few are mentioning how earnest and worried Glynn was in press conference - I think he recognises that the main messages, handwashing, distancing, masks often necessary etc. are being lost.

The government has yet again misjudged the mood of the people but Glynn knows the reality is that an increasing portion of society are on the brink of rejecting all advice out of hand, throwing the baby out with the bath water in frustration.

You can wail all you want that people need to suck up the restrictions, but with little to look forward to, everyday media gloom, life plans on hold and financial hardship for many, more people are opting out altogether. Might not be what the utopians ‘in this together’ crowd wants to believe of their fellow countryman, but there isn’t good enough reason to ask this much of society. That’s the reality.

People are worn out.

They had one chance to get the balance and message right, and they blew it.

road_high

Stormyteacup wrote: »

This exactly. On the main thread a few are mentioning how earnest and worried Glynn was in press conference - I think he recognises that the main messages, handwashing, distancing, masks often necessary etc. are being lost.

The government has yet again misjudged the mood of the people but Glynn knows the reality is that an increasing portion of society are on the brink of rejecting all advice out of hand, throwing the baby out with the bath water in frustration.

You can wail all you want that people need to suck up the restrictions, but with little to look forward to, everyday media gloom, life plans on hold and financial hardship for many, more people are opting out altogether. Might not be what the utopians ‘in this together’ crowd wants to believe of their fellow countryman, but there isn’t good enough reason to ask this much of society. That’s the reality.

People are worn out.

They had one chance to get the balance and message right, and they blew it.

Ive given up on Covid, I honestly don’t care about it. I’ll basically put up with and go on along with whatever idiotic measure s that it takes to live along best I can.
This virus is here. It’s endemic. It’s not going anywhere. No matter how many stupid posters and tweets are created. If you’re that bothered about it just stay at home.

We have now had restrictions for over half a year. Based on what I have seen over the last 2 days...

NPHET and Gov are no longer on the same page. NPHET likely want a lot more restrictions and are very concerned.

Gov have a real dilemma as we can’t afford any of this and several more months could really kill this country for years to come.

Most people are not prepared to lockdown again. Most people I know would prefer to acknowledge the risks and take responsibility themselves.

Vaccine needs to come soon or world will really start fallen apart. Fall out will already be huge if things went back to normal right now.

I think it’s the correct decision to move away from NPHET advise. We need to start acknowledging how f*cked the economy is.

Idbatterim

walus wrote: »

RTE are a great laugh I must say. I already learnt last week that no one is immune to Covid and that it is the virus that has crippled the economy. At this rate sometime between now and Christmas they will be telling people that earth is a flat disc sitting on top of seven crocodiles.

On a more serious note, in line with a trend for restrictions, I’ve restricted my family from watching RTÉ.

Legend! If they want to watch comedy, better going for the real good stuff!

road_high

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We have now had restrictions for over half a year. Based on what I have seen over the last 2 days...

NPHET and Gov are no longer on the same page. NPHET likely want a lot more restrictions and are very concerned.

Gov have a real dilemma as we can’t afford any of this and several more months could really kill this country for years to come.

Most people are not prepared to lockdown again. Most people I know would prefer to acknowledge the risks and take responsibility themselves.

Vaccine needs to come soon or world will really start fallen apart. Fall out will already be huge if things went back to normal right now.

I think it’s the correct decision to move away from NPHET advise. We need to start acknowledging how f*cked the economy is.

Only half following but I sense the dithering idiots are getting drawn back into the doom mongering Nphet rubbish?

patnor1011

JDD wrote: »

Tell me this though. Since 92% of our deaths are in the 65+ age category, and the average life expectancy in Africa is 65, were we expecting a large amount of deaths in Africa?

I will tell you. This virus does not kill old people. Your age has no great meaning but the state of your health does. It killed vulnerable people who already battled one or several other serious illnesses. Not to mention that these people were shipped out of hospitals to nursing houses to make room "just in case".
Another thing worth to remember is that with current quality of life and health standards in Africa their 50 years old people are most likely in similar shape as are our 80 years old people.
Or do you think this virus magically detect your age and try to kill you if it finds out you are over 65?

road_high

road_high wrote: »

Only half following but I sense the dithering idiots are getting drawn back into the doom mongering Nphet rubbish?

Well they seem to have a new structure.

NPHET advice
Civil service committee
Cabinet sub committee
Cabinet

I imagine they’ll all just start finger pointing at each other and no one will take responsibility.

Certainly no sign of any leadership

Assetbacked

road_high wrote: »

Only half following but I sense the dithering idiots are getting drawn back into the doom mongering Nphet rubbish?

In short, yes. However, McConckey has been conspicuously absent from media articles today. Presumably off in his laboratory with the recent articles quoting him and his '5000 cases per day by 31 October' prediction, working himself into a frenzied, hyper-euphoric, multiple-orgasmic state.

thebaz

From people I know and have talked to, I'd say about 50 - 60% of Dubliners are just fed up with the situation, we have done our best , asked to lockdown again I think 50 % will go crazy - Why not isolate/cocoon the at risk the over 75's, the and people immuno-suppressed , let the rest try to live some form of (social distanced) life , think more restrictions will be met with fierce backlash - I have obeyed everything I've been asked to do, but I too am at breaking point.

Assetbacked

Level 3 would restrict indoor seating in cafes and restaurants as well as closing museums, libraries etc. That would require more financial support to pay all the staff and cover costs for all cafes and restaurants in Dublin. But they buy in will be heavily muted if it only applies to Dublin and there are no airport restrictions (I mean, why bother following the guidance if others can come from abroad into the city and those just outside the city borders do not have the same restrictions?).

It would be an easier sell if the PR advisors weren't relied on to deliver a repetitive fear message to the media on a daily basis the last 6 months and if pubs etc were allowed to open and the EU travel approach followed from June when they should've because people would be a bit more refreshed and possibly accepting of a 2 week small step back. But with heavy restrictions and a constant fear message, people don't have anything left to give and cannot be bought with the case numbers alone when deaths are on the floor for over 4 months now.

stephenjmcd

Assetbacked wrote: »

Level 3 would restrict indoor seating in cafes and restaurants as well as closing museums, libraries etc. That would require more financial support to pay all the staff and cover costs for all cafes and restaurants in Dublin. But they buy in will be heavily muted if it only applies to Dublin and there are no airport restrictions (I mean, why bother following the guidance if others can come from abroad into the city and those just outside the city borders do not have the same restrictions?).

It would be an easier sell if the PR advisors weren't relied on to deliver a repetitive fear message to the media on a daily basis the last 6 months and if pubs etc were allowed to open and the EU travel approach followed from June when they should've because people would be a bit more refreshed and possibly accepting of a 2 week small step back. But with heavy restrictions and a constant fear message, people don't have anything left to give and cannot be bought with the case numbers alone when deaths are on the floor for over 4 months now.

Economic impact of Dublin restrictions goes much further than just Dublin. Wouldn't be surprised to see washed down level 3, level 2.75 because Dublin businesses would be looking for alot of state grants or most probably just won't reopen after a second set of restrictions

sabat

thebaz wrote: »

From people I know and have talked to, I'd say about 50 - 60% of Dubliners are just fed up with the situation, we have done our best , asked to lockdown again I think 50 % will go crazy - Why not isolate/cocoon the at risk the over 75's, the and people immuno-suppressed , let the rest try to live some form of (social distanced) life , think more restrictions will be met with fierce backlash - I have obeyed everything I've been asked to do, but I too am at breaking point.

That's fine, stick together and be supportive and just don't accept any more. That's the only way to end this. You can see how scared the government are of the street protests so go to the next one and try to get as many people as you can to come along. Despite the ubiquitous smearing of attendees as lunatics and Nazis, you'll see they're just ordinary Irish citizens standing up for themselves.