Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

16-09-2020 08:37PM

New Era wrote: »

Thanks catmaniac. It has been a very challenging and upsetting few months. But appreciations from yourself makes the healing process that much more easier. I hope all is well with yourself catmaniac and thank you. It is that type of good behaviour that got us through the national lockdown in March of this year and will do so again as we enter the very difficult weeks and months ahead.

Our elders are precious. I so well remember losing my mother (aged 89, still going on trips overseas) in 2009, and I have an aunt currently aged 89, and indeed an uncle aged 99, all part of our society.

Boggles · 16-09-2020 08:38PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

If you say so Woody.

https://twitter.com/deegilhawley/status/1306276866190454785?s=21

Strange, the HSE saying there has been 13 outbreaks in schools.

The lady (don't know her name) said there was none at the press conference.

Paul Reid then said 5 minutes later sheepisly there has been more than 2.

Which is it?

niallo27 · 16-09-2020 08:39PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

Billly big balls. We are all vulnerable if the hospitals are swamped and you need medical attention for whatever reason. Do you really think that this state of affairs affects only those DIRECTLY affected? Are people really that fcucking stupid?

Who is going pay for the health system if we are all sick but in lockdown. Genuine question. Are people that ****en stupid yo think we have an infinite amount of money.

TheBlackPill · 16-09-2020 08:40PM

Local hotels doing booming business with large groups socialising together. Will be the new meat factories

majcos · 16-09-2020 08:40PM

landofthetree wrote: »

They haven't even added 1 ICU bed.

ICU escalation plans to increase capacity were updated in all hospitals in Ireland in January/February 2020. Numerous measures have been taken to increase capacity. This is not a complete overview of all the measures in place but a few examples.

Staff who previously worked in ICUs have been retrained. Some were redeployed from other roles and some came back in to frontline healthcare this year from teaching and management, etc. Other staff have been up skilled in ICU care.

Typically there is one ICU nurse for each patient during each shift and sometimes more. ‘Buddy’ systems have been used where a more experienced/fully trained ICU nurse would work alongside less experienced one to manage two patients between them.

Extra ventilators, non invasive ventilators (hoods), dialysis machines have been purchased.

Areas within hospitals have been adapted with the required plumbing, electricity etc to ICU requirements within operating theatres, recovery areas, etc.

Hospitals have linked closer together to address capacity issues already at points during the peak so that when one individual hospital was getting close to reaching ICU capacity, patients were transferred to another ICU with more capacity to allow space again to open up in the first ICU.

Denny61 · 16-09-2020 08:41PM

Next month is going to get very scary..and I'm not taking about Halloween

Boggles · 16-09-2020 08:42PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I remember at the time Homestore+More had a lot of its stuff cut off, eg the Nutgrove store had the kitchen utensils/cutlery area railed-off but storage boxes/seating etc was accessible. It was a bit peculiar really, because nearly all of that store's products would come under the banner of home-ware. I think they just about got away with opening at all at the time.

Really? because my local Homestore remained closed and did not open with general hardware.

In fact I can't think of much hardware they actually sell.

I remember reading at the time they would definitely not be opening.

Maybe they were rogue operators, but they were definitely listed as someone who could not open if I remember correctly.

Assetbacked · 16-09-2020 08:44PM

New Era wrote: »

The last point is absolutely on the money. Look at university hospital Limerick. Yesterday they cancelled all elective surgeries for the rest of this week due to overcrowding in the mid West main regions hospital. God help us if that's the case come the winter months.

Successive governments have failed miserably in tackling the persistent and never ending shambles in dealing with overcrowding, unsafe working conditions for healthcare staff and patients, low pay for our nurses, dealing with our two tier health system and helping to reduce costs for patients and families in financial strain, ongoing bureaucracy, lack of accountability in senior management in hospital and national level among many issues.

But above all that, their inability to get more beds in particular in our icu's in our acute public hospital sector has now caught up with us. We may be throwing hundreds of millions a year to the HSE, but what is the actual return for this investment. The answer which is more of the same incompetence that has plagued our hospitals for decades now. Compare our situation to other European countries and in particular countries of our size and it paints a very disturbing picture.

I feel most sorry for our healthcare staff. Listening to negative news about the ongoing ills of a health system, which has been not fit for purpose for well over 2 decades now. I might be accused of negative coverage myself, but nurses and doctors know for themselves that they are dealing with a system which hasn't served the best interests for patients and staff for a long time now.

For those reasons that I explained in the above, any criticism of the likes of Dr Glynn, Professor Nolan is a bit rich if you are blaming anyone for imposing more restrictive measures to dealing with the rise of the coronavirus here. It's the failure of the two biggest political parties Ff and Fg and their inadequate capabilities in resolving the ongoing issues within our health service, and those issues still remain despite countless money been thrown to address the problem.

Anyone screaming the narrative that "we must keep reopening the country no matter what" and other comments along similar lines, are in my opinion giving the government a free pass here on their handling of all matters linked to health.

On a separate note I found one particular comment this evening regarding older people and the virus as disgusting. I know that comment has been reported but having seen my 70 year old mother die last month, albeit not covid related, how could anyone dismiss our wonderful veterans who have worked all their lives, paid their taxes, minding their grandchildren and in recent times, now having to shield or cocoon in their homes of residence or in nursing homes and places of long stay throughout covid and not seeing visitors or family and relatives. And not to mention the countless amount of magical and wonderful memories that mammy, daddy, granny and grandad you have shared with also

To me I think that anyone who tries to invoke language like "it's only older people that suffer from covid" is absolutely not living in the world and anyone on public forums like boards or in the open air in general proclaiming that sort of rhetoric, should face significant consequences and should be called out for such provocative language. Shameful stuff.

Your last paragraph is what I don't accept and the rest of your post is not a good enough reason to just accept it. It is not fair to criticise those that seek to "invoke language like "it's only older people that suffer from covid". This is our data; 93% of all deaths were over the age of 65, 78% over the age of 75 and 94% had clinical underlying conditions. This is in the context of the average life expectancy being between 80-84 in Ireland and with 75% of all cases coming in those under the age of 65. This data comes from https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

In addition, the language "Should face significant consequences and should be called out for such provocative language"; what sort of language is that other than provocative and hysterical language? This is a public discussion forum as you note which means data can get lost in opinion but your statement is completely OTT and detached from data.

Spanish Eyes · 16-09-2020 08:44PM

It’s the schools.

Everything else was open for weeks/months before the schools returned and coincided with this awful spike. So it might not originate in the school but the virus doesn’t care, just looking for hosts from kids going home, coming back in and all contacts in between and so on.

But you will hear blame placed on everyone else....don’t travel outside Dublin, don’t meet more than six. Etc.

But you can travel to a Green country abroad, but make sure your travel at home is within your county boundaries. You can go for a pizza and a pint, but don’t have a few drinks with friends at home. Verboten.

And send your kids into infection city five days a week and all will be grand

drunkmonkey · 16-09-2020 08:45PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Like, this is why we had to have a lockdown in the first place. The Government didn't do it for the crack.

That's not entirely correct, when we took the EU bail out we agreed to certain restrictions on our citizens as part of the package.
Belarus told them to shove it and went to the markets to borrow money to build up it's health care system rather than agree to the EU's terms of the bailout.
How's Belarus doing, there a poster child when it comes to their Covid response, 700 deaths in a population of 9.5 million.
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3543

Wolf359f · 16-09-2020 08:46PM

Boggles wrote: »

Strange, the HSE saying there has been 13 outbreaks in schools.

The lady (don't know her name) said there was none at the press conference.

Paul Reid then said 5 minutes later sheepisly there has been more than 2.

Which is it?

I believe the lady said there was no clusters associated with schools. There have been 13 outbreaks.
That's based on the current report which is a few days out of date.
I didn't see Paul Reid at the press conference, but if ya mean Colm Henry, he could possibly be going off more up to date figures.

da_miser · 16-09-2020 08:49PM

As far as im concerned this covid panic is over, the government can say and do what ever they want, now that the dust has settled the public are making up their own minds and are getting back to normal with or without the permission of the government, i expect the flood gates to open by October 1st, and a 95%+ public ignore rate for any government edicts, its dangerous to certain demographics, the very old and those with underlying health conditions, the rest of the population will be getting on with living their lives.

majcos · 16-09-2020 08:50PM

Boggles wrote: »

Strange, the HSE saying there has been 13 outbreaks in schools.

The lady (don't know her name) said there was none at the press conference.

Paul Reid then said 5 minutes later sheepisly there has been more than 2.

Which is it?

I don’t think there is any transmission within schools. These may be groups of cases such as siblings or a teacher with their own child as a pupil in the same school or perhaps even a husband and wife who teach in same school.

hetuzozaho · 16-09-2020 08:50PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Because I am the problem, take your head out of the sand.

I think that's part of the issue now is it? Everyone is getting comfortable with their contacts and people they know.

And everyone is justifying why they are having people over/meeting people etc and that they ain't the problem.

You can see it out and about, "oh are hugs and handshakes not allowed still?? lol".

DangerScouse · 16-09-2020 08:51PM

da_miser wrote: »

As far as im concerned this covid panic is over, the government can say and do what ever they want, now that the dust has settled the public are making up their own minds and are getting back to normal with or without the permission of the government, i expect the flood gates to open by October 1st, and a 95%+ public ignore rate for any government edicts, its dangerous to certain demographics, the very old and those with underlying health conditions, the rest of the population will be getting on with living their lives.

Name checks out.

Arghus · 16-09-2020 08:54PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Bleakest press conference in a while

I would agree. Foreboding feeling to it all.

I find Nolan to be always very measured, but there was no disguising how deeply concerned he was. People can say "ahh, he's always like that" - but, no: he isn't always like that.

During the dog days of March, April, May he always - always - mentioned the positive if there was positive to be mentioned - if metrics were declining he'd say it, if the virus was being suppressed he'd say it. His delivery can be monotone and dour at times, but he never overplayed the doom and gloom, even when things were pretty bad - and for some of the Summer like June and early July he was actually quite positive. But this evening he was definitely spooked - he spoke at serious length and there was a clear as day urgency underpinning his words. You couldn't not hear it - unless, of course, you didn't want to.

Glynn usually talks with the utmost seriousness and so that was to be expected again, but I was struck about how he seemed to be really trying to make an effort to cut through the bullshit and deliver the basic message to people about limiting contacts, wearing a mask, washing hands etc,etc.

He hit that point repeatedly again and again - like a man who knows that message is being lost in the controversy about levels and golf gates and fcking whatever else.

I wouldn't want to say I absolutely detected a hint of desperation in what he was saying, but there was one point where he was answering a question where he had his hands held together like he was basically pleading with people. I'm sure this was unintentional - but I thought there was an unmistakable change from normal in his body language. Some people will feel that's a ridiculous point to bring up and maybe it is, I don't know, but we've all being watching these people for weeks and months now - we know their mannerisms and tics, how they get their point across - Glynn seemed far more worried than usual to me.

I used to think Glynn wasn't a patch on Tony Holohan in terms of delivering the message and maybe he's not absolutely rock solid in terms of always measuring his words with absolute political precision, but he's grown on me a lot over the last few months. I get a sense of tremendous decency off the man - someone trying to say and do what he thinks is right.

He speaks with decisiveness, but he never seems dogmatic. I always feel that primarily he's trying to reason with people, not talk down to us and that he acknowledges the limitations to NPHET's purview and their fallibility. Tonight he seemed to me to be a man under pressure, who was making it his business to try to get through to people, amidst the growing surrounding hubbub of politicians, civil servants, Vintners, travel agents...you name it. To tell you the truth, I felt sorry for Ronan Glynn tonight.

Now, I'm sorry if I come across like some long winded version of Eeyore here. Believe it or not, I try to be fair. I suppose a positive you could take from the presser was the clarity with which they hammered home the message that personal behaviour still has the ultimate deciding power in terms of deciding where we are going - that the current predicted outcomes are not set in stone, we still have a chance to turn it around. They didn't say that basically we're fcked and there's nothing we can do about it. It is fundamentally up to us, but then I look at some of the commentary I read on this thread and elsewhere and add to that what I increasingly hear from people in real life and I really wonder about our chances. I hope that I am being unduly pessimistic.

I think there was an effort made in the presser to steer the conversation away from the idea, which is in danger of becoming a prevailing one, that it's a Dublin problem and the picture in the rest of the country is comparatively rosy. Dublin was mentioned plenty and the situation was not downplayed, but equal time was given to talking about how the underlying trends in the rest of the country are not good either and how it is far too easy to just get trapped into thinking this solely about Dublin and to take your eye off the ball. Glynn and Nolan said several times that the disease is rising across the country - they were making a point. The ship has sailed for Dublin, further restrictions are a fait accompli now - but the rest of the country can still avoid it, but only if they heed the message.

snotboogie · 16-09-2020 08:54PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

That's not entirely correct, when we took the EU bail out we agreed to certain restrictions on our citizens as part of the package.
Belarus told them to shove it and went to the markets to borrow money to build up it's health care system rather than agree to the EU's terms of the bailout.
How's Belarus doing, there a poster child when it comes to their Covid response, 700 deaths in a population of 9.5 million.
https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3543

They have 760 deaths and are hardly a poster child. They have the 21st lowest deaths per capita in Europe. In a European context they are slightly better than average. Surely Taiwan is the obvious poster child with 7 deaths in a population of 23 million.

DangerScouse · 16-09-2020 08:56PM

Denny61 wrote: »

Next month is going to get very scary..and I'm not taking about Halloween

We are in for a rocky ride over the next few months. Some are in denial and in a way i can understand that as it's a natural human reaction but it won't make the virus go away or keep us safe.

igCorcaigh · 16-09-2020 08:56PM

da_miser wrote: »

As far as im concerned this covid panic is over, the government can say and do what ever they want, now that the dust has settled the public are making up their own minds and are getting back to normal with or without the permission of the government, i expect the flood gates to open by October 1st, and a 95%+ public ignore rate for any government edicts, its dangerous to certain demographics, the very old and those with underlying health conditions, the rest of the population will be getting on with living their lives.

Did I hear during the press talk that 13% of our population is >65 years?

That's a lot of people. I don't think that they can be effectively shielded from community spread. They are relying on all of our actions to keep safe.

Stheno · 16-09-2020 08:59PM

hetuzozaho wrote: »

I think that's part of the issue now is it? Everyone is getting comfortable with their contacts and people they know.

And everyone is justifying why they are having people over/meeting people etc and that they ain't the problem.

You can see it out and about, "oh are hugs and handshakes not allowed still?? lol".

Seriously?

No one has been in my house since March 4th.
In the past two weeks I've had 2 close contacts other than my partner with whom I live, and those were his children whom we met on separate days for lunch

I was out once with four friends and visited a friend and my Mum once since July

I thought most people were behaving like this?

I've also worked from home since March and was looking forward to going to the office for a workshop for a few hours in October to see two of my colleagues really hope it happens

ChikiChiki · 16-09-2020 08:59PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Our elders are precious. I so well remember losing my mother (aged 89, still going on trips overseas) in 2009, and I have an aunt currently aged 89, and indeed an uncle aged 99, all part of our society.

Makes me sick to the stomach to see these people disregarded by some as expendable. :-(

They are indeed precious and deserve to be protected.

Some miser gimp said on the last page panic over, it only affects certain demographics the rest of us will be getting on with our lives. Heartless prick speaks for so very few.

16-09-2020 09:00PM

Boggles wrote: »

Really? because my local Homestore remained closed and did not open with general hardware.

In fact I can't think of much hardware they actually sell.

I remember reading at the time they would definitely not be opening.

Maybe they were rogue operators, but they were definitely listed as someone who could not open if I remember correctly.

Can't give you dates etc, but I distinctly remember the scenario when I wandered over into the Nutgrove Retail Park branch, having seen it open after coming out of Lidl across the way, and then I saw that about half the shop was effectively railed off from customer access.

DebDynamite · 16-09-2020 09:01PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It’s the schools.

Everything else was open for weeks/months before the schools returned and coincided with this awful spike. So it might not originate in the school but the virus doesn’t care, just looking for hosts from kids going home, coming back in and all contacts in between and so on.

But you will hear blame placed on everyone else....don’t travel outside Dublin, don’t meet more than six. Etc.

But you can travel to a Green country abroad, but make sure your travel at home is within your county boundaries. You can go for a pizza and a pint, but don’t have a few drinks with friends at home. Verboten.

And send your kids into infection city five days a week and all will be grand

No, the numbers had gone up quite substantially from the middle of August. Once news of the meat factory clusters emerged we realised how much the virus was out there. In fact, many parents and teachers had concerns with the return to school *because* of said rise in numbers at that time.

giveitholly · 16-09-2020 09:01PM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

It’s the schools.

Everything else was open for weeks/months before the schools returned and coincided with this awful spike. So it might not originate in the school but the virus doesn’t care, just looking for hosts from kids going home, coming back in and all contacts in between and so on.

But you will hear blame placed on everyone else....don’t travel outside Dublin, don’t meet more than six. Etc.

But you can travel to a Green country abroad, but make sure your travel at home is within your county boundaries. You can go for a pizza and a pint, but don’t have a few drinks with friends at home. Verboten.

And send your kids into infection city five days a week and all will be grand

The cases were rising long before the schools opened,some schools are only back a week. The government buried their heads in the sand regarding Dublin saying everything will be grand. Now this evening the narrative is that it is a country wide problem. Why didn't they try do something about the problem in Dublin 2 weeks ago and try nip this in the bud. They don't want to bring in restrictions in Dublin but will prob have no problem doing it on a national scale

Funsterdelux · 16-09-2020 09:02PM

drunkmonkey · 16-09-2020 09:03PM

snotboogie wrote: »

They have 760 deaths and are hardly a poster child. They have the 21st lowest deaths per capita in Europe. In a European context they are slightly better than average. Surely Taiwan is the obvious poster child with 7 deaths in a population of 23 million.

0 restrictions in Belarus, no lockdowns, Taiwan isn't in europe.
Considering they didn't scare the bejasus out of their citizens they deserve a medal.

Assetbacked · 16-09-2020 09:03PM

igCorcaigh wrote: »

Did I hear during the press talk that 13% of our population is >65 years?

That's a lot of people. I don't think that they can be effectively shielded from community spread. They are relying on all of our actions to keep safe.

What's the problem? Get them a Netflix subscription, RTE radio one, deliver them their shopping and set them up on Zoom bingo. It's only a few months or a year and then we'll have a vaccine.

Or is it only okay to dismiss a group of people like that when they are young people who are told they can lie at home and watch Netflix all day while getting PUP?

What Username Guidelines · 16-09-2020 09:04PM

Arghus wrote: »

I would agree. Foreboding feeling to it all.

I find Nolan to be always very measured, but there was no disguising how deeply concerned he was. People can say "ahh, he's always like that" - but, no: he isn't always like that.

Excellent post. Agree with this - I think it was when hospital numbers were heading up in the 30s earlier this month, without the usual midweek reductions, and there was some bickering here whether it was 'nothing' or a 'signal' I was on the signal side but was put at ease a bit by one of his updates at the time. He may be overcautious at some stages, but it just means that when he says "We're not overly concerned" it means something.

Boggles · 16-09-2020 09:05PM

majcos wrote: »

I don’t think there is any transmission within schools. These may be groups of cases such as siblings or a teacher with their own child as a pupil in the same school or perhaps even a husband and wife who teach in same school.

Reid in his vagueness said there was. The scenario you are describing would be residential clusters.

I'm not actually making this up, the HSE in their report said there has bee 13 outbreaks in schools.

https://twitter.com/deegilhawley/status/1306276866190454785?s=21

So again we are being told zero, 2ish or 13 officially.

What gives, which is it?

pjohnson · 16-09-2020 09:05PM

Stheno wrote: »

Seriously?

No one has been in my house since March 4th.
In the past two weeks I've had 2 close contacts other than my partner with whom I live, and those were his children whom we met on separate days for lunch

I was out once with four friends and visited a friend and my Mum once since July

I thought most people were behaving like this?

I've also worked from home since March and was looking forward to going to the office for a workshop for a few hours in October to see two of my colleagues really hope it happens

They should but some are not capable of such basic measures.

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

Comments