Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

crossman47 · 16-09-2020 08:00PM

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Schools opening matches with the spike in Dublin.

Correlation is not causation

Non solum non ambulabit · 16-09-2020 08:00PM

CiarraiManc wrote: »

not much difference in my eyes both have a callous disregard for their citizens how the swedish government haven't been lambasted by the UN ill never know

There is a year to run on this. Check in at the end before passing judgement. Lots of countries have done significantly worse than Sweden and are still posting huge death numbers. Sweden isn't.

speckle · 16-09-2020 08:00PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Dr Ronan Glynn said on his latest broadcast that if people would simply seriously endeavour to encounter HALF of the number of people they had done in previous weeks then we would go back to a better place. If we may a note of all the places we have gone, all the individuals and families etc we have met in houses, then to get specific and decide what 50% of such encounters you were going to do without for the foreseeable.

Well, I can't get any lower, one in 2 and half weeks, my physio, had decided to keep them very low until this round of physio finishes. As my physio will be in contact with highly vulnerable people.
mmmh maybe I could barter my contacts time...only kidding:D

16-09-2020 08:01PM

martingriff wrote: »

True but since we were starting at zero again how long did it take in February March for things to get out of hand, Which can happen if people don't wise up that it does not end flatten the curve it then goes to keep it flattened

Edit Realise you are talking about case which I agree with you I was talking aabout hospital and deaths. Must learn to read

800-900 in hospital with covid in spring at peak.

Polar101 · 16-09-2020 08:02PM

Story in the Irish Times explaining the "absolutely clear" travel restrictions from/to Dublin

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/explainer-travel-to-and-from-dublin-you-can-go-but-are-asked-not-to-1.4356627

Explainer: Travel to and from Dublin – you can go but are asked not to

Can I travel outside Dublin?

You can but you are being asked not to. The official stated advice from the Departments of the Taoiseach and Health on the Government website to those living in Dublin is that they should be “encouraged to limit travel outside the region and only meet one other household when outside the county”.

So I can travel if I want?

Yes.

JacksonHeightsOwn · 16-09-2020 08:04PM

Hubertj wrote: »

Whatever level they go to doesn’t matter if they don’t get the testing and tracing up to speed. Clearly the public servants aren’t up to it so they need to bring in professionals to get it working properly. Accountability is required here as they have failed the country.

100% correct. China mass tested the whole 11 million of wuhan in less than two weeks. The whole of Asia has wiped Europe's eye with how well they've managed this pandemic.

They invested correctly in track and trace and mass testing. All our government are doing is blaming each other and turning the citizens against each other.

There was a doctor from St Vincent's on TV last night and he admitted because we haven't invested in rapid testing, mass testing and accurate and speedy track and trace, then the only thing we can do to stop the spread is lockdown.

That was ok 6 months ago, but in that time we should have our house in order, but we're back to square one again.

Look at Taiwan, never locked down, less than 1000 cases. Why, because they tested and isolated all close contacts from the get go. If you where a close contact, you had to go to a hotel until you where cleared to leave.

We've had a mickey mouse approach since the start, and quite frankly, it hasn't evolved with the pandemic.

Non solum non ambulabit · 16-09-2020 08:04PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

It Italy and Spain they had to choose who was given the ventilator and who died.
You might have missed or forgotten the videos of rows and rows in rooms and rooms of people hooked up to hospital machines while their families couldn't say goodbye.

Also military vehicles transporting bodies to crematoriums because hospital morgue were full.

Maybe you missed it.

Do you want me to post the videos to remind you?

You might want to carefully read the post you responded to before steaming in

stockshares · 16-09-2020 08:05PM

Meat factory outbreak Waterford
https://twitter.com/Michelle_Byrne_/status/1306305655922450432?s=19

16-09-2020 08:07PM

chrisbonnie wrote: »

100% correct. China mass tested the whole 11 million of wuhan in less than two weeks. The whole of Asia has wiped Europe's eye with how well they've managed this pandemic.

They invested correctly in track and trace and mass testing. All our government are doing is blaming each other and turning the citizens against each other.

There was a doctor from St Vincent's on TV last night and he admitted because we haven't invested in rapid testing, mass testing and accurate and speedy track and trace, then the only thing we can do to stop the spread is lockdown.

That was ok 6 months ago, but in that time we should have our house in order, but we're back to square one again.

Look at Taiwan, never locked down, less than 1000 cases. Why, because they tested and isolated all close contacts from the get go. If you where a close contact, you had to go to a hotel until you where cleared to leave.

We've had a mickey mouse approach since the start, and quite frankly, it hasn't evolved with the pandemic.

I agree with all of the above.

Lockdown shouldn't be happening again but has to due to inadequate test trace. Lockdown sometime in October.

iLikeWaffles · 16-09-2020 08:07PM

This run of thought that the schools are not the threat to the community but the community is the threat to the schools is, most likely, why numbers have been so chaotic the past few weeks or so. Completely backwards thinking! The message is a lot clearer now after this latest press briefing, which is everyone should be treating this as a threat individually even at home but it is the complete wrong message. All it does is pit people against each other when at the start of this we were all in it together and that message was extremely clear.

The numbers of positive cases in the meat plant where caused by asymptomatic cases, roughly half of the positive cases were asymptomatic, there is no fault there with that but currently we have not learned anything from that. There is still people walking around possibly infecting others. What happened in America was they were able to test a lot of people so which was negative reinforcement for most of them, you could say, to be less cautious.

These non-restrictive measures currently in place are going to cause a lot of outbreaks and ruin this country. Where we should be at since yesterday is Level 3 going into the rest of the week thinking about level 4. We are one step away from a full lockdown now, make no mistake about that! Act accordingly.

Non solum non ambulabit · 16-09-2020 08:07PM

Drumpot wrote: »

Sweden needs to be compared to Norway and Finland to get a reasonable idea of how their strategy worked in that part of the world. Better geographical and cultural comparison.

Then why are we always compared to other countries e.g. NZ, Spain, Italy etc. Even the UK is not comparable due to huge cultural mix there.

16-09-2020 08:11PM

iLikeWaffles wrote: »

This run of thought that the schools are not the threat to the community but the community is the threat to the schools is, most likely, why numbers have been so chaotic the past few weeks or so. Completely backwards thinking! The message is a lot clearer now after this latest press briefing, which is everyone should be treating this as a threat individually even at home but it is the complete wrong message. All it does is pit people against each other when at the start of this we were all in it together and that message was extremely clear.

The numbers of positive cases in the meat plant where caused by asymptomatic cases, roughly half of the positive cases were asymptomatic, there is no fault there with that but currently we have not learned anything from that there is still people walking around possibly infecting others. What happened in America was they were able to test a lot of people so which was negative reinforcement for most of them, you could say, to be less cautious.

These non-restrictive measures currently in place are going to cause a lot of outbreaks and ruin this country. Where we should be at since yesterday is Level 3 going into the rest of the week thinking about level 4. We are one step away from a full lockdown now, make no mistake about that! Act accordingly.

Dont agree with all your post. I agree with lockdown.Early next month my guess.

CiarraiManc · 16-09-2020 08:13PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dont agree with all your post. I agree with lockdown.Early next month my guess.

it's the only way some people will learn they won't take the carrot so try the stick

martingriff · 16-09-2020 08:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

800-900 in hospital with covid in spring at peak.

Oh thanks

majcos · 16-09-2020 08:16PM

MD1990 wrote: »

so 73 in hospital.
What would be our capacity for Coronavirus patients be about approximately?

Currently there are approximately 280 open and staffed ICU beds. At peak in mid April, as far as I can recall, there were 166 patients in ICU at one given time. This is a massive percentage of our ICU beds for a single illness which can be close to full on any particular day even before Covid. At present however, there are about 60 empty ICU beds.

There is additional capacity through escalation plans that were revised/updated in January/February 2020 at individual hospital, hospital group and at a national level.

What that maximum capacity of ICU is/would be hard to definitively calculate as perhaps the main limiting factor is appropriately skilled staff. The availability of staff is majorly impacted by level of infection among healthcare workers which is still a significant issue here despite additional training in infection control and PPE.

gral6 · 16-09-2020 08:16PM

Let's lockdown every month for 3 weeks just to suppress the virus !

16-09-2020 08:16PM

New Era wrote: »

The last point is absolutely on the money. Look at university hospital Limerick. Yesterday they cancelled all elective surgeries for the rest of this week due to overcrowding in the mid West main regions hospital. God help us if that's the case come the winter months.

Successive governments have failed miserably in tackling the persistent and never ending shambles in dealing with overcrowding, unsafe working conditions for healthcare staff and patients, low pay for our nurses, dealing with our two tier health system and helping to reduce costs for patients and families in financial strain, ongoing bureaucracy, lack of accountability in senior management in hospital and national level among many issues.

But above all that, their inability to get more beds in particular in our icu's in our acute public hospital sector has now caught up with us. We may be throwing hundreds of millions a year to the HSE, but what is the actual return for this investment. The answer which is more of the same incompetence that has plagued our hospitals for decades now. Compare our situation to other European countries and in particular countries of our size and it paints a very disturbing picture.

I feel most sorry for our healthcare staff. Listening to negative news about the ongoing ills of a health system, which has been not fit for purpose for well over 2 decades now. I might be accused of negative coverage myself, but nurses and doctors know for themselves that they are dealing with a system which hasn't served the best interests for patients and staff for a long time now.

For those reasons that I explained in the above, any criticism of the likes of Dr Glynn, Professor Nolan is a bit rich if you are blaming anyone for imposing more restrictive measures to dealing with the rise of the coronavirus here. It's the failure of the two biggest political parties Ff and Fg and their inadequate capabilities in resolving the ongoing issues within our health service, and those issues still remain despite countless money been thrown to address the problem.

Anyone screaming the narrative that "we must keep reopening the country no matter what" and other comments along similar lines, are in my opinion giving the government a free pass here on their handling of all matters linked to health.

On a separate note I found one particular comment this evening regarding older people and the virus as disgusting. I know that comment has been reported but having seen my 70 year old mother die last month, albeit not covid related, how could anyone dismiss our wonderful veterans who have worked all their lives, paid their taxes, minding their grandchildren and in recent times, now having to shield or cocoon in their homes of residence or in nursing homes and places of long stay throughout covid and not seeing visitors or family and relatives. And not to mention the countless amount of magical and wonderful memories that mammy, daddy, granny and grandad you have shared with also

To me I think that anyone who tries to invoke language like "it's only older people that suffer from covid" is absolutely not living in the world and anyone on public forums like boards or in the open air in general proclaiming that sort of rhetoric, should face significant consequences and should be called out for such provocative language. Shameful stuff.

Very sorry for your loss, New Era.

niallo27 · 16-09-2020 08:16PM

ExMachina1000 wrote: »

It Italy and Spain they had to choose who was given the ventilator and who died.
You might have missed or forgotten the videos of rows and rows in rooms and rooms of people hooked up to hospital machines while their families couldn't say goodbye.

Also military vehicles transporting bodies to crematoriums because hospital morgue were full.

Maybe you missed it.

Do you want me to post the videos to remind you?

Read my post again, your letting your emotions take over.

polesheep · 16-09-2020 08:17PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The problem with this logic is that people with health problems and middle aged persons can become severely ill and require hospitalization. They can be treated with intensive care and deaths can be prevented, but only so long as the hospital system can keep up with demand.

Once demand outstrips available intensive treatment, some of those people with underlying health problems will start dying. It is inevitable. It only needs to be a small percentage for the deaths to start accumulating. That is what is in store if we reach a situation whereby there are 1,000+ cases daily for a sustained period of time. Like, this is why we had to have a lockdown in the first place. The Government didn't do it for the crack.

What's really worrying is that we haven't really done what was needed to ramp up available treatment in our hospital system. That should have been done while we had the lockdown and the inevitable lull in new cases that followed.

So if you want all middle aged, older persons or those with underlying conditions to self-isolate then you're locking down half the country as it is.

I'm not saying what I want, but what will happen. The herd is moving.

16-09-2020 08:18PM

CiarraiManc wrote: »

it's the only way some people will learn they won't take the carrot so try the stick

It's a combination of government/social failure. 80% is due to HSE/Paul Reids poor track trace apparatus.

Why did they test so little in summer?

Why are they only recruiting swab takers/contact tracing now?

Why is so little testing happening at airports?

The list goes on as regards testing contact tracing inadequacies.

Wolf359f · 16-09-2020 08:23PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

100 children infected the week before schools opened.

A child is getting it at home from parents but is that child infecting other children or teachers?

Internationally that seems not likely.

13 outbreaks/100 cases in 2 weeks (probably matches the number of kids testing positive before schools opened), no clusters so far, so spread within classes between kids seems to match the international experience. And it's not for lack of testing kids, going by how many people have been seeing plenty of kids at test centres getting tested.

If the % of positive tests in kids increases, it could be a sign of an issue with schools.

majcos · 16-09-2020 08:25PM

Eod100 wrote: »

With contact tracing, are you allowed notify close contacts you can remember yourself? If you're providing their info anyway, surely better they find out asap and then hear officially from contact tracers at later date?

Absolutely I think you should notify close contacts yourself if you have a confirmed positive test (or even sooner if a reasonable degree of suspicion). I think you have a moral responsibility to do so in order to protect their close contacts and wider society. You have the right to keep your medical condition confidential and you can opt to let the officials do it but I think there is an element of personal responsibility too.

Those close contacts should then self isolate and hopefully they will be contacted very soon for a risk assessment and with official advice.

16-09-2020 08:25PM

polesheep wrote: »

I'm not saying what I want, but what will happen. The herd is moving.

When there is hundreds in hospitals I wonder will the herd move.

If we can't test trace isolate effectively to keep numbers on an even keel we will be locked down.

rsl1976 · 16-09-2020 08:30PM

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Brought my child for a test out beside the airport .

Loads of people getting tested not wearing masks going in and out of the building

You have to laugh

And the fact that they actually give you 2 masks to use. I just dont get peoples issue with wearing one, especially if you're getting tested.

iLikeWaffles · 16-09-2020 08:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

It's a combination of government/social failure. 80% is due to HSE/Paul Reids poor track trace apparatus.

Why did they test so little in summer?

Why are they only recruiting swab takers/contact tracing now?

Why is so little testing happening at airports?

The list goes on as regards testing contact tracing inadequacies.

All great questions!

Here's another one...

Why is an acting chief medical officer even mention the economy when talking about measures? Their one and only concern should be and is public health.

polesheep · 16-09-2020 08:30PM

Deleted User wrote: »

When there is hundreds in hospitals I wonder will the herd move.

If we can't test trace isolate effectively to keep numbers on an even keel we will be locked down.

Yes. It is unstoppable.

New Era · 16-09-2020 08:31PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Very sorry for your loss, New Era.

Thanks catmaniac. It has been a very challenging and upsetting few months. But appreciations from yourself makes the healing process that much more easier. I hope all is well with yourself catmaniac and thank you. It is that type of good behaviour that got us through the national lockdown in March of this year and will do so again as we enter the very difficult weeks and months ahead.

PowerToWait · 16-09-2020 08:31PM

polesheep wrote: »

They won't lockdown the country again, but even if they did they won't be able to lockdown the people. And they know it, which is why we are not going to see another lockdown. The time has come to self-lockdown if you feel vulnerable.

Billly big balls. We are all vulnerable if the hospitals are swamped and you need medical attention for whatever reason. Do you really think that this state of affairs affects only those DIRECTLY affected? Are people really that fcucking stupid?

PowerToWait · 16-09-2020 08:37PM

polesheep wrote: »

Yes. It is unstoppable.

Alright David Attenborough. The ‘herd’ don’t decide who needs a hospital bed, or emergency medical attention. Most of your herd I’m sure don’t even work in health care. Or work at all. If the health care ship sinks, the herd is banjaxed.

Eod100 · 16-09-2020 08:37PM

majcos wrote: »

Absolutely I think you should notify close contacts yourself if you have a confirmed positive test (or even sooner if a reasonable degree of suspicion). I think you have a moral responsibility to do so in order to protect their close contacts and wider society. You have the right to keep your medical condition confidential and you can opt to let the officials do it but I think there is an element of personal responsibility too.

Those close contacts should then self isolate and hopefully they will be contacted very soon for a risk assessment and with official advice.

Sorry, should have really phrased it as one as it's hypothetical. But yeah seems best thing to do if contact tracing is taking so long. Kinda scary to think close contacts out there going about there business and could have it. No wonder there's community transmission of unknown sources!

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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