Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Micky 32 · 16-09-2020 01:41PM

MadYaker wrote: »

People who visit the USA are banned from Europe? That's new to me.

Yep Ireland and UK not allowed in since March. Unless you have green card or citizenship.

16-09-2020 01:41PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Most of these things are occasional events. Does that mean you spent the weeks in between these events in 2019 just surviving, or were you living?

My point is, you are using very emotive language that is really quite baseless.

Over the last 6 months I would have had a number of concerts, a few GAA games, a few group hang outs and a wedding.

And most of these would go on beyond 11:30pm.

So not too occasional.

Penfailed · 16-09-2020 01:42PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

I would have thought no entry to the USA is a restriction.

That's a restriction placed on you by the US, not our government.

16-09-2020 01:44PM

Penfailed wrote: »

That's a restriction placed on you by the US, not our government.

The US wouldn’t be on our Green list though. Have to keep that in mind.

Micky 32 · 16-09-2020 01:46PM

Penfailed wrote: »

That's a restriction placed on you by the US, not our government.

Restrictions are restrictions regardless. The thread title doesn’t say Ireland only or is that something you made up to suit your narrative?

bucketybuck · 16-09-2020 01:52PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Sorry I understood your post as 2 parents living together and then 2 siblings from 2 other households, didn't realise you were the 5th from a 4th household.

You think the Gardai will be kicking down doors and doing headcounts on xmas eve? Id say you'll manage.

No no no, it doesn't work like that. You can't just say that the poster shouldn't worry because the guards are unlikely to catch him, there are rules and he needs to follow the rules or else he is putting people at risk.

This isn't religion, we don't get to pick and chose the bits that suit us, if those are the rules the government have decreed then they need to be followed to the letter.

Lots of people on here throwing invective at those who dared to do something that went against the almighty restrictions so lets have a little consistency on this please and thank you.

dundalkfc10 · 16-09-2020 01:54PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

No no no, it doesn't work like that. You can't just say that the poster shouldn't worry because the guards are unlikely to catch him, there are rules and he needs to follow the rules or else he is putting people at risk.

This isn't religion, we don't get to pick and chose the bits that suit us, if those are the rules the government have decreed then they need to be followed to the letter.

Lots of people on here throwing invective at those who dared to do something that went against the almighty restrictions so lets have a little consistency on this please and thank you.

If a Guard goes into a house and 6 young fellas all say ah we all live here, what can he do?

Tenzor07 · 16-09-2020 01:58PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

If a Guard goes into a house and 6 young fellas all say ah we all live here, what can he do?

Legally the Gards can't enter a private home without a warrant or information that leads them to believe a Crime is in progress, and that info would stand up in court...

16-09-2020 02:00PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

If a Guard goes into a house and 6 young fellas all say ah we all live here, what can he do?

That's not the point, of course we're going to have Christmas dinner. I was responding to somebody who said level 1 isn't restrictive, I think it is.

paw patrol · 16-09-2020 02:00PM

MadYaker wrote: »

First time I've seen someone put a figure on this but Dr. Colm Henry says up to one third of the Irish population would be considered part of the high risk group. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus/doctor-resigns-from-hospital-group-after-comments-on-draconian-covid-19-curbs-1.4356244

One third is kind of what I was thinking it would be. Obesity, diabetes, high blood pressure, asthma are all relatively common these days and across a wide spectrum of ages. Part of the reason that doctors comments were considered irresponsible. It's not really possible to cocoon one out of every 3 people in the country and still keep the country functioning.

first time I've seen it too.
Looks to me like another strand of project fear being dropped out into the public domain.

Are you seriously suggesting 1 in 3 people in ireland have "underling" conditions? methinks it's the loosest measure ever of "at risk".
a fcukin farce.

bucketybuck · 16-09-2020 02:04PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

If a Guard goes into a house and 6 young fellas all say ah we all live here, what can he do?

You have missed the point.

Captain_Crash · 16-09-2020 02:07PM

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

If a Guard goes into a house and 6 young fellas all say ah we all live here, what can he do?

Guards have a right to be satisfied of the name and address of a person. So if the guard wanted to double check and found the lads were lying, then they may be in real trouble

Tenzor07 wrote: »

Legally the Gards can't enter a private home without a warrant or information that leads them to believe a Crime is in progress, and that info would stand up in court...

They can if they're let in, i.e. knock knock "Hi Maddam, can we come in to check to see if the people here are allowed be here?" If the the owner says yes then its fair game. Now the Guards relying on people not knowing what they can and cant do regarding a guard making a request like that is another matter for another thread.

Neither are going to happen to any household this xmas anyway. No guard really wants to be "THAT" guard eh.

MadYaker · 16-09-2020 02:21PM

paw patrol wrote: »

first time I've seen it too.
Looks to me like another strand of project fear being dropped out into the public domain.

Are you seriously suggestion 1 in 3 people in ireland have "underling" conditions? methinks it's the loosest measure ever of "at risk".
a fcukin farce.

I'm not suggesting it the HSE are and I don't think it's that hard to believe if you look at the numbers. HSE says that 23% of men in this country fit the definition of obese. https://www.hse.ie/eng/about/who/healthwellbeing/our-priority-programmes/heal/key-facts/

That's just men and just one underlying condition. Not to mention other common illnesses such as diabetes, high blood pressure, asthma the figures for all these are on the HSE website it's pretty easy to see how it adds up to a third of the population. Large chunk of the population are over 65 also.

There's a difference between fear mongering and facts, dismiss it if it makes you feel better but it's the main reason we have to make some effort to curb the spread of this in the community.

You'll still see people posting in this thread saying it only kills the old and very very sick but that's clearly nonsense.

Penfailed · 16-09-2020 02:26PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Restrictions are restrictions regardless. The thread title doesn’t say Ireland only or is that something you made up to suit your narrative?

To sum up - You are surviving rather than living based on restrictions placed upon you by the US. Our government are the bad guys though. Did I get that right?

bucketybuck · 16-09-2020 02:31PM

MadYaker wrote: »

You'll still see people posting in this thread saying it only kills the old and very very sick but that's clearly nonsense.

So why is the median age of death 84 or something like that?

It clearly isn't nonsense to say that the vast, vast majority of covid deaths are people who were very old or very sick, the stats show it pretty clearly.

Of course there will always be outliers, I heard of one young woman who was killed by a shark with covid and she wasn't 84, but those are just outliers, the exceptions that prove the rule.

Micky 32 · 16-09-2020 02:32PM

Penfailed wrote: »

To sum up - You are surviving rather than living based on restrictions placed upon you by the US. Our government are the bad guys though. Did I get that right?

Where did i say that? I was pointing out earlier that we’re not all in this together. I was pointing out people have different lives some lives are simple and the pandemic hardly affects them. I never said anything about surviving or living.

ixoy · 16-09-2020 02:33PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

So why is the median age of death 84 or something like that?

That also means that half the deaths were people younger than 84 though. I can't quite recall but yes the majority weren't young sure but let's not confuse median and average.

bucketybuck · 16-09-2020 02:39PM

ixoy wrote: »

That also means that half the deaths were people younger than 84 though. I can't quite recall but yes the majority weren't young sure but let's not confuse median and average.

Which is why it is the figure used by the HSE I suspect. I would be very interested to know what the mean or mode was, something tells me we wouldn't even be having this discussion if they released that figure.

Even so, logic dictates that a median age of 84 an incredibly strong indicator that the average age of death is in the 80's, since there is a natural upper limit on the ages involved.

MadYaker · 16-09-2020 02:43PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

So why is the median age of death 84 or something like that?

It clearly isn't nonsense to say that the vast, vast majority of covid deaths are people who were very old or very sick, the stats show it pretty clearly.

Of course there will always be outliers, I heard of one young woman who was killed by a shark with covid and she wasn't 84, but those are just outliers, the exceptions that prove the rule.

Median age of death is high because the first wave that spread mostly in nursing homes is still where the majority of our cases occurred. Outside Dublin community transmission is still low thankfully.

Penfailed · 16-09-2020 03:24PM

Micky 32 wrote: »

Where did i say that? I was pointing out earlier that we’re not all in this together. I was pointing out people have different lives some lives are simple and the pandemic hardly affects them. I never said anything about surviving or living.

Yeah. You replied to my comment about something else and changed the meaning to something different. Much like I did to you in response. Do you see how this works?

Stormyteacup · 16-09-2020 03:24PM

paw patrol wrote: »

first time I've seen it too.
Looks to me like another strand of project fear being dropped out into the public domain.

Are you seriously suggestion 1 in 3 people in ireland have "underling" conditions? methinks it's the loosest measure ever of "at risk".
a fcukin farce.

Agreed - very loose definition of underlying conditions that mark someone as being at risk.

From CSO - out of the 111 deaths in the 25-64 age bracket, 103 had underlying conditions.

Chronic heart disease was present in 45% of all deaths.

Data to 21st August.

Would there be a further breakdown of underlying conditions anywhere?

Tenzor07 · 16-09-2020 03:29PM

Captain_Crash wrote: »

They can if they're let in, i.e. knock knock "Hi Maddam, can we come in to check to see if the people here are allowed be here?" If the the owner says yes then its fair game. Now the Guards relying on people not knowing what they can and cant do regarding a guard making a request like that is another matter for another thread.
Neither are going to happen to any household this xmas anyway. No guard really wants to be "THAT" guard eh.

Sounds more like Vampires than Police!

Anyhoo, I can't see squads of Gardai driving all over the country on Christmas day, sticking there heads through the window asking to be invited in, checking that Dad carving the Turkey is related to the other 5 in the room, and no one is hiding under the Christmas tree... this isn't Australia!

bucketybuck · 16-09-2020 03:32PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Median age of death is high because the first wave that spread mostly in nursing homes is still where the majority of our cases occurred. Outside Dublin community transmission is still low thankfully.

Median age of death is high because the age of the people dying is high, that is the only relevant part when it comes to your original post:

You'll still see people posting in this thread saying it only kills the old and very very sick but that's clearly nonsense

16-09-2020 03:43PM

Went to my GP for the first time since Covid today. Disgusted by what I experienced.

Large empty waiting room and about 7 patients outside!

2 elderly people and 2 pregnant women standing outside in the group.

Will this continue in winter? Could at least have the more vulnerable indoors.

What have we become?

PTH2009 · 16-09-2020 03:44PM

The Scary thing is there's nothing to stop the government panicking over the next few months as there will be a massive rise in numbers with the autumn/winter weather and the illnesses that come along with that. They could put us in level 4/5

MadYaker · 16-09-2020 03:45PM

PTH2009 wrote: »

The Scary thing is there's nothing to stop the government panicking over the next few months as there will be a massive rise in numbers with the autumn/winter weather and the illnesses that come along with that. They could put us in level 4/5

They won't panic because they are expecting it.

Micky 32 · 16-09-2020 03:45PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Yeah. You replied to my comment about something else and changed the meaning to something different. Much like I did to you in response. Do you see how this works?

How did i change it to something different? My comment was plain and simple. You posted about life for you not changed much, restaurant cinema etc etc, whereas seeing my family is a huge part of my life that i can no longer see..

Hence why i believe the slogan “ we’re all in it together “ is bollox. Peoples circumstances can differ a lot.

Assetbacked · 16-09-2020 03:45PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Which is why it is the figure used by the HSE I suspect. I would be very interested to know what the mean or mode was, something tells me we wouldn't even be having this discussion if they released that figure.

Even so, logic dictates that a median age of 84 an incredibly strong indicator that the average age of death is in the 80's, since there is a natural upper limit on the ages involved.

We have the data which shows it is accurate to say this is an extremely old and/or extremely vulnerable person's disease in the vast majority of cases. To say otherwise is to be ignorant of the data (of which a lot of posters seem to be).

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

p12 - All the data is there showing that deaths hit the floor in mid-May and never rose since.

p11 - 93% of all covid deaths were over the age of 65 (broken down as 14.21% between the ages of 65-74; 34.02% between the ages of 75-84; and 44.88% 85+). By comparison, in terms of life expectancy in Ireland it is 84 years for women and 80.4 years for men - https://www.thejournal.ie/life-expectancy-ireland-2019-4947423-Dec2019/ so of course it is possible that a risk factor to covid is simply living to the average age for life expectancy.

p4 - in case you might claim that older people made up more cases, therefore that is the reason they make up the vast majority of the deaths. Nope. Mean age of cases is 48 and median age of cases is 45. Around 75% of cases were under the age of 65.

p11 - 94.63% of all deaths had underlying clinical conditions.

MadYaker · 16-09-2020 03:46PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Median age of death is high because the age of the people dying is high, that is the only relevant part when it comes to your original post:

Ok mate

paw patrol · 16-09-2020 03:53PM

MadYaker wrote: »

I'm not suggesting it the HSE are and I don't think it's that hard to believe if you look at the numbers.

except you said

One third is kind of what I was thinking it would be.

so you are suggesting it.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings