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Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,840 ✭✭✭hetuzozaho


    Eod100 wrote: »

    Level 3. Checks notes, so pubs will open?!


  • Posts: 5,917 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    There is confusion re travel , confusion re home visitors and confusion re workers .The whole fiasco was so badly managed and at one stage I glazed over while MM was talking .

    He has that effect anytime he talks about anything.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,445 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Happy4all wrote: »
    Confusion with message re Dublin.

    Recommended no one travel out of Dublin.

    But no clear message for people commuting into Dublin for work?

    No confusion on work, travel for work has always been classified as essential travel


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,445 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    hetuzozaho wrote: »
    Level 3. Checks notes, so pubs will open?!

    Level 2.75 maybe level 3.25 who knows


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,809 ✭✭✭Hector Savage


    I wonder when they will start "recommending the wearing of masks at home" ...


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,044 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    I wonder when they will start "recommending the wearing of masks at home" ...


    I wear a mask and helmet, just to be sure


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Yeah, is there any danger it was a strategic cough?

    "Jaysus that went terribly, time to activate plan D as per the PR plan"

    Glad SD is ok, he must have just drank his water the wrong way. Bless
    Nice distraction from the sh!ttest plan in the history of plans though.

    Great the way the test broke up the news cycle.
    The cynical among us would question the timing.
    We've all had a dodgy tummy or an unexplained flu when work gets a bit too much.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    No problem in Belarus! You couldn't make it up. Sweden is basically at the equivalent of the Level 2 restriction now except it has been for a long time. And with a lot more ICU beds than Ireland does.

    Are you sure about that?
    We only have 537 ICU beds.

    Its pathetic how few we have.

    Interestingly some of the poorer country in Europe like Romania are up at the higher end.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,080 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    OK I walked into that one, but I dunno when you see police beat the **** out of a young girl and choke her for not wearing a mask ???

    It's creeping there ...

    She shoulda worn a mask.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Happy4all


    No confusion on work, travel for work has always been classified as essential travel

    What about circumstances where you have the capacity to work from home but employer asking people to come in.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭kingshankly


    ChikiChiki wrote: »
    Agree, his position is as untenable as Callearys was in my book.

    Awful optics once again for **** sake.

    There’s always someone out there looking someone sacked sign of the world we live in unfortunately


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 187 ✭✭Littleredcar


    Happy4all wrote: »
    What about circumstances where you have the capacity to work from home but employer asking people to come in.

    Depends on employer - small business difficult
    Large business - union involvement
    My own is the same


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,445 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Premium article but a decent read in todays paper
    https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1306133232187047936?s=19


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,677 ✭✭✭Happydays2020


    Premium article but a decent read in todays pape4
    https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1306133232187047936?s=19

    Good. And well overdue.

    The last three months has been all over the place. And NPHET has started to background brief that their views were not been taken on board.


  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Christ is everything fascist nowadays? Kinda hilarious tbh, and while complaining about overreaction.

    Its the fascist communists on one side trying to control everyone, and the fascist corpratists on the other allowing the vulnerable to die to protect businesses


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,174 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Good. And well overdue.

    The last three months has been all over the place. And NPHET has started to background brief that their views were not been taken on board.

    Why do you think they were doing that?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    The only reason Dublin is level 2.5 is because of the airport.

    There is no guidance on international travel.

    So we (people in Dublin) are supposed to not go anywhere but anyone can go anywhere in the world?

    Dublin should be level 3. This would affect us but it's the right thing given the numbers. I'm out. Won't be adhering to anything I don't understand. This doesn't make any sense.
    This is inconsistent and stupid and it's advisory anyway.

    There was nothing fvcking wrong with Stephen Donnelly.
    He was only letting on.


    Level 2
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    Level 3
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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,040 ✭✭✭Polar101


    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-confusion-over-dublin-s-status-under-new-pandemic-plan-1.4355832
    Minister for Health Stephen Donnelly had said residents in Dublin “absolutely can” travel outside the county.
    Taoiseach Micheál Martin later clarified the advice from the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET) was that while people were being encouraged not to travel outside Dublin, but there was no regulation attached to it. “I am encouraging people not to travel, if at all possible,” Mr Martin told RTÉ.
    Tánaiste Leo Varadkar was more emphatic last night, telling RTɒs PrimeTime that the Government was “strongly discouraging people from travelling outside of Dublin city or county unless it’s necessary.

    So I guess people in Dublin can choose which of the great leaders to listen to?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,463 ✭✭✭shinzon


    Just going to post this here as a counterpoint to the article above. This is taken from when NPHET were formed back in January apart from Tony Holohan the faces remain the same.


    https://www.thejournal.ie/here-is-who-sits-on-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-and-what-they-do-5086703-Apr2020/

    NPHET

    According to the Department of Health, NPHET for Covid-19 was established on 27 January.

    It takes its lead from the World Health Organisation (WHO) and is tasked with overseeing and providing “expert advice, guidance, support and direction for the overall national response” on both a regional and national level.

    There have been previous NPHETs established in Ireland in response to public health threats such as swine flu.

    Membership, as previously reported by TheJournal.ie, comprises of representatives from across the health and social care service including the Department of Health (DOH), Health Service Executive (HSE), Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC), Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA) and Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA).

    According to the Department of Health, NPHET’s Terms of Reference include overseeing and providing direction, directing the collection and analysis of required data, directing communications at local, regional and national level and evaluating the readiness of Ireland’s health service to manage Covid-19.

    Evaluating the health service’s capacity is done with a view to standing NPHET down eventually. That decision will be made by Dr Holohan in consultation with other members.

    NPHET currently meets twice per week and, according to the Department, actions, decisions and recommendations are made by consensus of all members.

    In terms of communication and transparency, NPHET’s recommendations are sent by letter to Minister for Health Simon Harris and to the HSE CEO Paul Reid after each meeting.

    It was raised earlier this week that NPHET’s meeting minutes had not been published since 11 April.

    In response to concerns raised around transparency, Dr Holohan said earlier this week that the delay in publishing minutes was down to a “workload issue”.

    According to the Department, NPHET’s Secretariat “work diligently to finalise the minutes of the meetings as quickly as possible after the meetings, bearing in mind the pace of the current pandemic public health crisis.”

    Here’s a full list of who sits on NPHET:

    Dr Tony Holohan (Chair) Chief Medical Officer, Department of Health (DOH
    Prof Colm Bergin – Consultant Infectious Diseases, St. James’s Hospital and Professor of Medicine, Trinity College Dublin
    Mr Paul Bolger – Director, Resources Division, DOH
    Dr Eibhlin Connolly – Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
    Ms Tracey Conroy – A/Sec, Acute Hospitals Division, DOH
    Dr John Cuddihy – Interim Director, Health Protection Surveillance Centre (HPSC)
    Dr Cillian de Gascun - Director, National Virus Reference Laboratory (NVRL), UCD, Consultant Virologist
    Mr Colm Desmond – A/Sec, Corporate Legislation, Mental Health, Drugs Policy and Food Safety Division, DOH
    Dr Lorraine Doherty – National Clinical Director for Health Protection, HPSC, HSE
    Dr Mary Favier – President Irish College of General Practitioners (ICGP)
    Dr Ronan Glynn – Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
    Mr Fergal Goodman – A/Sec, Primary Care Division, DOH
    Dr Colm Henry – Chief Clinical Officer, HSE
    Dr Kevin Kelleher – Asst. National Director, Public Health, HSE
    Ms Marita Kinsella – Director, National Patient Safety Office, DOH
    Mr David Leach – Deputy National Director of Communications, HSE
    Dr Kathleen Mac Lellan – A/Sec, Social Care Division, DOH
    Dr Jeanette Mc Callion – Medical Assessor, Health Products Regulatory Authority (HPRA)
    Mr Tom McGuinness – Asst. National Director, Office of Emergency Planning, HSE
    Dr Siobhán Ní Bhrian – Lead for Integrated Care, HSE Prof Philip Nolan President, National University of Ireland, Maynooth
    Ms Kate O’Flaherty – Head of Health and Wellbeing, DOH
    Dr Darina O’Flanagan – Special Advisor to the NPHET, DOH
    Dr Siobhan O’Sullivan – Chief Bioethics Officer, DOH
    Dr Michael Power – National Clinical Lead, Critical Care Programme, HSE Consultant in Anaesthetics / Intensive Care Medicine, Beaumont Hospital
    Mr Phelim Quinn – Chief Executive Officer, HIQA
    Dr Máirín Ryan – Deputy Chief Executive and Director of Health Technology Assessment, HIQA
    Dr Alan Smith – Deputy Chief Medical Officer, DOH
    Dr Breda Smyth – Director of Public Health Medicine, HSE
    Mr David Walsh – National Director, Community Operations, HSE
    Ms Deirdre Watters – Head of Communications, DOH
    Mr Liam Woods – National Director, Acute Operations, HSE
    EAG

    In addition to NPHET, which currently has 32 members from across the health sector, there are a number of sub-groups working alongside it.

    This includes the Expert Advisory Group (EAG) to NPHET, chaired by Dr Cillian de Gascun, director of the National Virus Reference Laboratory at UCD, who provides an update every Tuesday on lab testing numbers and capacity.

    There are 27 members of the EAG, the function of which is to monitor and review evidence as well as “identify gaps, and update and provide clear, evidence-based expert advice on preparedness and response,” according to the Department.

    There’s also the EAG Research Subgroup chaired by Professor Colm Bergin, Consultant Infectious Diseases, St. James’s Hospital and Professor of Medicine at Trinity College Dublin.

    Comprised of 11 members, its role is to hone in on priority research topics, explore potential collaborative possibilities to advance Covid-19 research and to monitor and to monitor and track development at a European level.

    Subgroups

    Then there’s the Acute Hospital Preparedness Subgroup of NPHET, chaired by Tracey Conroy, Assistant Secretary, Acute Hospitals Policy Division at the Department of Health.

    It was established on 3 March and its 12 members are tasked with oversight and ensuring the preparedness of the acute hospital system to deal with a significant increase in hospital admissions due to Covid-19.

    Another subgroup of NPHET is the Behavioural Change Subgroup which was established on 18 March and is made up of nine members.

    Chaired by Kate O’Flaherty, Head of Health and Wellbeing at the Department of Health, this group is charged with providing advice and researching population behaviours and drivers.

    It advises the Communications Group on how best to communicate public health advice like washing hands, respiratory hygiene and social distancing.

    Next up, the Guidance and Evidence Synthesis Subgroup of NPHET, chaired by Dr Máirín Ryan, Deputy Chief Executive and Director of Health Technology Assessment at HIQA.

    This subgroup is made up of 18 members and its role is to report to NPHET on the public health and clinical guidance relating to Covid-19, currently in development and to be developed in Ireland.

    Modelling Group

    To an extent, there’s some crossover on who sits on which subgroup and the heads of each subgroup also sit on NPHET.

    For instance, Professor Philip Nolan, president of the National University of Ireland in Maynooth, who also heads up the Irish Epidemiological Modelling Advisory Group.

    This group comprises 25 members from across universities, HSE, Department of Health and HIQA.

    This group’s function is to capture how Covid-19 has spread throughout the Irish population and to develop the capacity to enable real-time modelling of Covid-19 in Ireland which in turn will inform NPHET’s decision-making.

    The group itself is made up of three subgroups; Epidemiology Modelling, Demand/Supply Modelling and Geospatial Mapping Modelling.

    In addition to this Modelling Group, there a further five subgroups.

    These include the Health Legislation Subgroup of NPHET (19 members), the Medicines Criticality Assessment Group (27 members), Medical Devices Criticality Assessment Group (13 members), Pandemic Ethics Advisory Group (9 members), Vulnerable People Subgroup (30 members), Health Sector Workforce Subgroup (20 members).

    As can be seen, Ireland’s response to Covid-19 is a considerable, multidisciplinary operation.

    As well as the above-mentioned groups there’s also the Special Cabinet Committee at Government, the Crisis Communications Group and the HSE National Crisis Management Team feeding into NPHET’s response and acting on its recommendations.

    Id rather these people be advising government rather than putting the advice into the hands of senior civil servants with literally no medical experience making the ultimate recommendations to government tbh

    Shin


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    Polar101 wrote: »
    Donnelly is sick and probably on medication!


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    Polar101 wrote: »
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-confusion-over-dublin-s-status-under-new-pandemic-plan-1.4355832







    So I guess people in Dublin can choose which of the great leaders to listen to?

    What a bunch of spoofers.

    It's going to be a ****show this winter. Why they wouldn't try curtail it while they can is beyond me.

    It's stealth herd immunity. If like other corona viruses we'll be in EXACTLY same situation this time next year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    I strongly discouraged Leo not to drink a bag of cans in the park but he did.
    Tánaiste Leo Varadkar was more emphatic last night, telling RTÉ’s PrimeTime that the Government was “strongly discouraging people from travelling outside of Dublin city or county unless it’s necessary.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-confusion-over-dublin-s-status-under-new-pandemic-plan-1.4355832


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,174 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Looking like Dublin could be in level 3 by tomorrow or Friday. Government should have but the bullet and move it there yesterday. Any recommendations made will take at least 3 weeks to see full impact anyway so pointless having small measures. Better to go strong and ease if necessary. https://twitter.com/RTENewsPaulC/status/1306135556343173121?s=19


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,500 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    So NPHET's advice will be filtered by a separate group before it reaches the cabinet.

    Irish Governments solution to everything, throw another layer of bureaucracy in there.

    Dilutes culpability and fuels deniability.

    If I were Glynn and Nolan I would be recording everything.

    Because as sure as fúck it will not be the career bureaucrats or any member of the cabinet that will be thrown under the bus.

    It really is a slow moving train wreck that about to get a lot quicker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,174 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Boggles wrote: »
    So NPHET's advice will be filtered by a separate group before it reaches the cabinet.

    Irish Governments solution to everything, throw another layer of bureaucracy in there.

    Dilutes culpability and fuels deniability.

    If I were Glynn and Nolan I would be recording everything.

    Because as sure as fúck it will not be the career bureaucrats or any member of the cabinet that will be thrown under the bus.

    It really is a slow moving train wreck that about to get a lot quicker.

    It's a way for government to dilute or outright reject NPHET's recommendations while having political cover. Think NPHET will likely still publicly releasing their letters anyway so will be paper trail.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,445 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Looking like Dublin could be in level 3 by tomorrow or Friday. Government should have but the bullet and move it there yesterday. Any recommendations made will take at least 3 weeks to see full impact anyway so pointless having small measures. Better to go strong and ease if necessary. https://twitter.com/RTENewsPaulC/status/1306135556343173121?s=19

    At this stage it doesn't even really matter. The complete fućk up in communication just means everyone is going to do as they see fit.

    It'll be a level 2.75 so that they don't completely destroy whats left of businesses.

    In terms of gatherings in the home its already at level 3, you'd literally be just reducing numbers in churches and closing museums etc which aren't exactly the issue.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators Posts: 18,044 Mod ✭✭✭✭ixoy


    In terms of gatherings in the home its already at level 3, you'd literally be just reducing numbers in churches and closing museums etc which aren't exactly the issue.
    You'd be closing restaurants and cafés (probably, it's a tad unclear) so you'd be seen to be stopping more places where people can congregate. They're not the issue as you've said - it's people mixing in households for the most. I'm not optimistic people will limit their local social contacts appropriately.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,726 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    At this stage it doesn't even really matter. The complete fućk up in communication just means everyone is going to do as they see fit.

    It'll be a level 2.75 so that they don't completely destroy whats left of businesses.

    In terms of gatherings in the home its already at level 3, you'd literally be just reducing numbers in churches and closing museums etc which aren't exactly the issue.

    i think this is the problem they've created a set of guidelines that doesnt cover where the spread is, they aren't going to shut down businesses which have close contact work in them, they aren't going to give an garda powers to shut down house parties so even at level 5 not much will change

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    And giving Gardaí more powers only comes in at level 5. Restaurants and cafes do takeaways and allow outdoor seating only in phase 3


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,445 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    ixoy wrote: »
    You'd be closing restaurants and cafés (probably, it's a tad unclear) so you'd be seen to be stopping more places where people can congregate. They're not the issue as you've said - it's people mixing in households for the most. I'm not optimistic people will limit their local social contacts appropriately.

    Thats the thing as you say restaurants open aren't the issue, they actually prefer people to meet in them as they're controlled environments.

    The whole thing is just one giant mess.

    Level 2.75 but all is very clear....


This discussion has been closed.
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