FF/FG/Green Next Government

FrancieBrady · 13-09-2020 01:19PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Hurray! Think we finally agree. KPMG wont go near Court. Firstly they simply dont care about any of the creditors. They're only concern will be their own fees. They know if the go near Court they will just attract attention and aggro from the likes of Bowie, Boyd Barrett and Sinn Fein "activists". Why expose yourself to that? My guess is that they will throw the file under a radiator for 6 months leave " the workers" standing around in the rain for the Winter, write off the value of the stock or sell it at a big discount to a purchaser willing to litigate access or force their way in, pay themselves and distribute any crumbs remaining to whoever is entitled

Finally 'agree'? How do you figure that?

Are you completely unaware in your ranting about the shinners under your bed that the Taoiseach also thinks these workers have been treated badly?

Try informing yourself about what is actually happening.

13-09-2020 01:27PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Finally 'agree'? How do you figure that?

Are you completely unaware in your ranting about the shinners under your bed that the Taoiseach also thinks these workers have been treated badly?

Try informing yourself about what is actually happening.

There’s no doubt that, morally, they were treated pretty shabbily. But, financially, they ARE getting their rights.

FrancieBrady · 13-09-2020 01:32PM

Deleted User wrote: »

There’s no doubt that, morally, they were treated pretty shabbily. But, financially, they ARE getting their rights.

So, when people are treated shabbily do you normally side with those who did the shabby treatment? Morally, are they right to protest?

13-09-2020 01:35PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So, when people are treated shabbily do you normally side with those who did the shabby treatment? Morally, are they right to protest?

They’re on a hiding to nothing. Their jobs are gone. The business is gone. The fact remains that they are getting their monetary rights. Wages, holiday pay and statutory redundancy.

antimatterx · 13-09-2020 01:37PM

FF on 4% in the latest polls.

https://twitter.com/theharrymcc/status/1305131184700096512?s=21

Yurt2 · 13-09-2020 01:54PM

antimatterx wrote: »

FF on 4% in the latest polls.

https://twitter.com/theharrymcc/status/1305131184700096512?s=21

4% in Dublin only it should be said. But still, that's absolutely extraordinary. Depending on the timing of the election, it could kill off the party for good. No talent coming through; party and public don't know what they're about; can't shake a toxic image from the economic collapse; listless and completely at sea.

FrancieBrady · 13-09-2020 02:09PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

They’re on a hiding to nothing. Their jobs are gone. The business is gone. The fact remains that they are getting their monetary rights. Wages, holiday pay and statutory redundancy.

The fact remains they dispute that.

13-09-2020 02:24PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The fact remains they dispute that.

Are you suggesting that they are not getting their wages, holiday pay AND 2 weeks redundancy pay? There was me thinking that they are getting all that but want more?

Muahahaha · 13-09-2020 02:26PM

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

Unsurprisingly FG are the most popular party in the country. A ringing endorsement.

Some people have very short memories, FG topped the polls 3 weeks out from the last election and then on polling day they ended up with their second worst election result in their history.

FrancieBrady · 13-09-2020 03:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Are you suggesting that they are not getting their wages, holiday pay AND 2 weeks redundancy pay? There was me thinking that they are getting all that but want more?

They had a deal which the company walked away from.
That is why the Taoiseach thinks they have been badly treated.
Yourself and Truth seem to ignore this.

13-09-2020 03:34PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They had a deal which the company walked away from.
That is why the Taoiseach thinks they have been badly treated.
Yourself and Truth seem to ignore this.

What deal? The company only owes them wages, holiday pay and statutory redundancy. This is what they are getting.

They were treated badly in that the company announced its closure during the Covid lockdown.

Edgware · 13-09-2020 03:36PM

Yurt! wrote: »

4% in Dublin only it should be said. But still, that's absolutely extraordinary. Depending on the timing of the election, it could kill off the party for good. No talent coming through; party and public don't know what they're about; can't shake a toxic image from the economic collapse; listless and completely at sea.

Come back in 4 years time when we have an election

L1011 · 13-09-2020 03:41PM

The weird thing with FF in 2011 was that they never really went below 10% even in Dublin - they got 10-15% (and no transfers after that of course) in Dublin

Their core vote in Dublin has left (or died, being honest) basically. They're now reliant on swing votes like everyone else.

Truthvader · 13-09-2020 04:23PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They had a deal which the company walked away from.
That is why the Taoiseach thinks they have been badly treated.
Yourself and Truth seem to ignore this.

This is simply untrue. Regardless of whatever yourself and Leo think they have already been offered what they are entitled to . Their employer is not their Mammy. Actually Declan de Lacy (experienced Liquidator) was on Radio one yesterday morning explaining it all. Maybe check out the podcast and educate yourself before posting foolishness. I cant seem to penetrate whatever barrier you have erected to reality

FrancieBrady · 13-09-2020 04:50PM

Truthvader wrote: »

This is simply untrue. Regardless of whatever yourself and Leo think they have already been offered what they are entitled to . Their employer is not their Mammy. Actually Declan de Lacy (experienced Liquidator) was on Radio one yesterday morning explaining it all. Maybe check out the podcast and educate yourself before posting foolishness. I cant seem to penetrate whatever barrier you have erected to reality

I never said they hadn't been offered the statutory terms.
You need to stop taking the liquidators word as gospel.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40047692.html%3ftype=amp

Truthvader · 13-09-2020 07:10PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never said they hadn't been offered the statutory terms.
You need to stop taking the liquidators word as gospel.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40047692.html%3ftype=amp

OK I give up you too. You can take your information from Pearse Doherty or Angus O'Snodaigh or whatever flake takes your fancy who will obviously know so much more than me or an experienced liquidator. Good luck with that.

13-09-2020 08:11PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never said they hadn't been offered the statutory terms.
You need to stop taking the liquidators word as gospel.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40047692.html%3ftype=amp

Then WHY are they protesting? WHY are they ruining their chances of future employment? WHY are they trying to deprive other creditors of a fair payment?

I wonder how many former employees are actually protesting? Reference has been made to their “Supporters”. Mainly Trades Union and Socialist party members.

FrancieBrady · 13-09-2020 08:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Then WHY are they protesting? WHY are they ruining their chances of future employment? WHY are they trying to deprive other creditors of a fair payment?

I wonder how many former employees are actually protesting? Reference has been made to their “Supporters”. Mainly Trades Union and Socialist party members.

And the Taoiseach, who thinks they were treated badly.

Kinda ruins the 'themuns' rant a little doesn't it?

13-09-2020 08:45PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the Taoiseach, who thinks they were treated badly.

Kinda ruins the 'themuns' rant a little doesn't it?

I’m sure that we all think that they were treated shi**y by closing the business during lockdown. Not in their redundancy settlement.

Don’t understand “themuns”?

blanch152 · 14-09-2020 10:14AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And the Taoiseach, who thinks they were treated badly.

Kinda ruins the 'themuns' rant a little doesn't it?

Again, you completely misunderstand reality.

The workers are getting what they are entitled to.

That is the bare minimum. Anyone is entitled to hold the view that an employer like Debenhams giving the bare minimum is treating them badly. However, that doesn't mean they are "entitled" to more. You are the second poster on here who doesn't seem to understand the meaning of the word entitlement.

James Brown · 14-09-2020 01:29PM

Truthvader wrote: »

As before either Bowie doesn't understand the process or else he is following the standard Sinn Fein strategy of championing "the workers" regardless of truth or facts as part of the sleazy populist strategy to con thickos into voting for them on the "free houses and money for everyone" promise. They certainly will "break the free state" if let. And the big losers will be the very "workers" who vote for them when they find that all the jobs are gone because investors no longer want to risk their money in a trick shop failed state

I've no idea what SF's stance is. I'm not any party's blind shill. I'd actually read a piece by Joan Collins on it. You need broaden your scope it might inform you better and you could take a break from SF being behind everything anyone does or says that you don't understand so don't like.
Championing the workers is a great thing. You have this theme of looking down on workers, tax payers. Do you not find that counter productive societally speaking?
Now you're off on a 'poor working people bad' rant.

James Brown · 14-09-2020 01:35PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Hurray! Think we finally agree. KPMG wont go near Court. Firstly they simply dont care about any of the creditors. They're only concern will be their own fees. They know if the go near Court they will just attract attention and aggro from the likes of Bowie, Boyd Barrett and Sinn Fein "activists". Why expose yourself to that? My guess is that they will throw the file under a radiator for 6 months leave " the workers" standing around in the rain for the Winter, write off the value of the stock or sell it at a big discount to a purchaser willing to litigate access or force their way in, pay themselves and distribute any crumbs remaining to whoever is entitled

I think you mean 'eureka'. You seem to get it. They've a right to seek what they think they are due whether you think they are due it or not. How it plays out is how it plays out. The workers have a right to disagree.
This all stemmed from LV stating there was no money. There is. If LV wanted to stick his misinformed or lying oar in he could have brought in the recommendations after the Cleary's incident. He didn't bother his barney.
How it is to be allocated is being negotiated. You have a view of sorts and favour the other creditors, that's cula bula.
Why do you blindly support the other creditors over the workers? Can you tell me who they are and what the money is for? It would be odd if you did not have this information to hand.

James Brown · 14-09-2020 01:45PM

Edgware wrote: »

Come back in 4 years time when we have an election

Spring/Summer 2021 is not 4 years away.

Hawthorn Tree · 14-09-2020 01:45PM

The great thing about this government is that the Civil War Politics nonsense is over. The optimum result from this government is that we have only 1 centre-right party at the next GE. I think we are making great progress there.
Hopefully FF will be an irrelevant/tiny party or will merge with FG. Thus far, FF are making all the big mistakes and their minister quality looks positively awful. The Clifden Elite party will come back to haunt both. Covid likes to party? Next couple of years will be fascinating from a political perspective.

blanch152 · 14-09-2020 01:47PM

Bowie wrote: »

I've no idea what SF's stance is. I'm not any party's blind shill. I'd actually read a piece by Joan Collins on it. You need broaden your scope it might inform you better and you could take a break from SF being behind everything anyone does or says that you don't understand so don't like.
Championing the workers is a great thing. You have this theme of looking down on workers, tax payers. Do you not find that counter productive societally speaking?
Now you're off on a 'poor working people bad' rant.

Bowie wrote: »

I think you mean 'eureka'. You seem to get it. They've a right to seek what they think they are due whether you think they are due it or not. How it plays out is how it plays out. The workers have a right to disagree.
This all stemmed from LV stating there was no money. There is. If LV wanted to stick his misinformed or lying oar in he could have brought in the recommendations after the Cleary's incident. He didn't bother his barney.
How it is to be allocated is being negotiated. You have a view of sorts and favour the other creditors, that's cula bula.
Why do you blindly support the other creditors over the workers? Can you tell me who they are and what the money is for? It would be odd if you did not have this information to hand.

Are you still thinking that they are just looking for their entitlements? Or have you accepted that you were wrong on that, that they are getting their entitlements and that they are actually looking for more.

rob316 · 14-09-2020 01:49PM

FF are an awful party, Martin is leader in name but you can tell he doesn't have the respect of the party and they can see Leo is taking him for a ride. Absolutely zero talent in the ranks, there is no one I can look at there and say "he could be leader of the country one day".

James Brown · 14-09-2020 01:52PM

L1011 wrote: »

The weird thing with FF in 2011 was that they never really went below 10% even in Dublin - they got 10-15% (and no transfers after that of course) in Dublin

Their core vote in Dublin has left (or died, being honest) basically. They're now reliant on swing votes like everyone else.

Imagine if Kenny changed the way we do business, hadn't conjured up the Irish Water quango? We'd have no Siteserv deal (currently under investigation), no board jobs for 'our own' and so on. They could have gone from strength to strength with Coveney taking over, but alas, it's like the Scorpion and the Frog, "I could not help myself. It is my nature.".
They needed FF, they brought FF back to the table quicker than they were due. They obviously didn't have the time to fix themselves back up. We've two caretaker wastes leading the first and third biggest parties, (as per election results).
FF need a complete overhaul for optics, because that's all it ever is.

FG may do well enough to concoct some bastardised government next time out, but they'd really need ditch Varadkar IMO.

James Brown · 14-09-2020 02:01PM

blanch152 wrote: »

Are you still thinking that they are just looking for their entitlements? Or have you accepted that you were wrong on that, that they are getting their entitlements and that they are actually looking for more.

Read what you quoted. It will answer all that haunts you.

Have you an answer for my question:

Bowie wrote: »

...
You are stating that the HSE operate completely independently from the department and minster of health, yes or no?

Or have you not had a chance to read up...

blanch152 wrote: »

Surprise, surprise, I did miss it, I don't follow every media story.

..on the topic you felt you had enough info on to throw a few digs but not enough to give an opinion or answer questions on?

Truthvader · 14-09-2020 02:40PM

Bowie wrote: »

I think you mean 'eureka'. You seem to get it. They've a right to seek what they think they are due whether you think they are due it or not. How it plays out is how it plays out. The workers have a right to disagree.
This all stemmed from LV stating there was no money. There is. If LV wanted to stick his misinformed or lying oar in he could have brought in the recommendations after the Cleary's incident. He didn't bother his barney.
How it is to be allocated is being negotiated. You have a view of sorts and favour the other creditors, that's cula bula.
Why do you blindly support the other creditors over the workers? Can you tell me who they are and what the money is for? It would be odd if you did not have this information to hand.

Can't deal with wilful stupidity any longer, Either do the reading you foolishly advised me to do or join Francie and ask Chris Andrews or Dessie Ellis for their expert opinion. It will certainly be what you want to hear

Scoundrel · 14-09-2020 02:59PM

rob316 wrote: »

FF are an awful party, Martin is leader in name but you can tell he doesn't have the respect of the party and they can see Leo is taking him for a ride. Absolutely zero talent in the ranks, there is no one I can look at there and say "he could be leader of the country one day".

FF are finished there is literally no reason to vote them policy wise and as you say the lack of talent is unreal the fact that Jack Chambers is chief whip is astounding the shinners or FG wouldn't have him as a cllr.

FF/FG/Green Next Government

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