How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Lillyfae · 10-09-2020 11:53AM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

In fairness to Supercell, this sort of thing should not be left to the parents.

There should be clear guidance on things like singing. It's just another failing by the DoE.

The guidance is clear, it's a failure by the school and the teacher involved.

TonyMaloney · 10-09-2020 11:56AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

The DoE guidance is clear, it's a failure by the school and the teacher involved.

My bad

I've googled briefly but can't find anything

10-09-2020 12:01PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

The DoE guidance is clear, it's a failure by the school and the teacher involved.

If you have time, it would be great if you could identify and post a link on the DoE guidance re singing.

JDD · 10-09-2020 12:02PM

More recently I heard of another, in Jura, where a family got together for a diner celebrating the return of a young adult (from a sabbatical. Returned from Mexico and should have been isolating for 15 days...). Parents, grand-parents, some cousins, 10 people I'm told. So far 6 tested positive...

Banning these kinds of gatherings are fair enough, IF there is significant numbers being infected though two or more households coming together, then I totally get it. Not much you can do if someone won't self-isolate when returning from abroad though!

deliege · 10-09-2020 12:11PM

JDD wrote: »

Banning these kinds of gatherings are fair enough, IF there is significant numbers being infected though two or more households coming together, then I totally get it. Not much you can do if someone won't self-isolate when returning from abroad though!

I agree. But I also see something on the continent (and more and more here too): with the completely bonkers communication (and sometimes decisions) from government about the whole crisis for months now ("we don't need masks! Go to the theatre! Let's not kill the pubs or tourism, let things reopen"), amplified by the return to school ("you can't see more than 5 people of your acquaintances but your kid will be in a room 7hrs a day with 30 others, and it will be grand"), more and more people are starting to consider any advice from "high up" as bull**** to be ignored. That could be the root of much trouble.

JDD · 10-09-2020 12:16PM

kilburn wrote: »

Have been asking this very same question for days but no answer.

Once school receives confirmation from HSE the HSE decides the further action.

I have no idea how long after positive result is confirmed that the HSE contact school.

Same situation here 2 kids in our kids class out of school nearly 2 weeks community knows from family they are positive but school still hasn't been informed

Has the school definitely not been informed? Because if the close contacts (and the HSE could decide that this is only the table the child was sitting at, and not the whole class) have been contacted, it could well be the remainder of the class aren't considered close contacts? And perhaps the school is under the impression that they can't tell other parents that are not parents of close contacts because of data protection requirements?

History Queen · 10-09-2020 12:16PM

Balagan1 wrote: »

If you have time, it would be great if you could identify and post a link on the DoE guidance re singing.

This is the link for post primary guidance:

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/4f33c-impact-of-covid-19-on-certain-school-activities-covid-19-response-plan-for-safe-re-opening-of-post-primary-schools/#choirmusic-performance

I screenshot the relevant part here also, I haven't read the primary guidelines as I'm a postprimary teacher but I assume the guidance is similar. Saying that, with the Department you'd never know.

Edit: i found the primary guidance, as I suspected it is the same as secondary with regard to choirs

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/b1533-impact-of-covid-19-on-certain-school-activities/#choirmusic-performance

kilburn · 10-09-2020 12:24PM

Our smallie sits beside 1 of the 2 out so would have thought we would be informed.

Have a toddler who is high risk so would hope they would let us know

Have spoken to principal who said they have heard nothing

10-09-2020 12:25PM

Supercell wrote: »

See this is the problem, just because I'm not panicking by default means I'm mindless, that's called cognitive dissonance (putting it politely).

Read what I wrote before, my kids are in tiny prefabs, Junior, 1st Class and 3rd class. I don't know what other schools are like where no kid touches each other, at all apparently or plays with the same toys, my kids school certainly doesn't have that luxury, and I'd wager if you looked at that parents kids school that's not really the reality either unless the classes are truly tiny and the kids are older(5th, 6th class perhaps). Its unlikely in any Dublin school I'd guess unless its a very expensive private school.

Stop and think for a moment, does singing really add to it, for my young lot in prefabs, not a jot is my considered, not mindless opinion.
I do appreciate you have your opinion and won't be swayed one bit by this, but for the record I did want to reply to your insulting comment. I don't like reading bickering online so that my final comment on this.

My kids are in a brand new school, with excellent space a relatively small class sizes compared to some - (24 and 27), however there is no way for the younger classes, juniors to 2nd, that you can realistically enforce distancing over the course of a full day to the extent that restrictions on singing would make a difference. With 20-something or so 4 to 8 year old's in a confined space, the standard shouting, sniffling, touching and sharing that is ongoing for a full day would have far more influence on spread than the odd half hour of singing

10-09-2020 12:34PM

kilburn wrote: »

Have been asking this very same question for days but no answer.

Once school receives confirmation from HSE the HSE decides the further action.

I have no idea how long after positive result is confirmed that the HSE contact school.

Same situation here 2 kids in our kids class out of school nearly 2 weeks community knows from family they are positive but school still hasn't been informed

While understanding the worry, if you are nearly at two weeks you are almost out of the woods. Most cases emerge within 7 days

10-09-2020 12:36PM

Supercell wrote: »

See this is the problem, just because I'm not panicking by default means I'm mindless, that's called cognitive dissonance (putting it politely).

Read what I wrote before, my kids are in tiny prefabs, Junior, 1st Class and 3rd class. I don't know what other schools are like where no kid touches each other, at all apparently or plays with the same toys, my kids school certainly doesn't have that luxury, and I'd wager if you looked at that parents kids school that's not really the reality either unless the classes are truly tiny and the kids are older(5th, 6th class perhaps). Its unlikely in any Dublin school I'd guess unless its a very expensive private school.

Stop and think for a moment, does singing really add to it, for my young lot in prefabs, not a jot is my considered, not mindless opinion.
I do appreciate you have your opinion and won't be swayed one bit by this, but for the record I did want to reply to your insulting comment. I don't like reading bickering online so that my final comment on this.

I apologize for describing your comment as unpleasant and mindless. It is clear that the school opened under conditions where the teachers could not facilitate the kids' and their own safety because of lack of space. Singing, from research and the Dep of E's own guidance, does indeed add to the chance of spread of any present infection and even if all the other guidelines about touching, not sharing toys between separated groups etc., are not possible to implement it might be worth pushing for the singing guidelines be followed. Again, sorry for my own unpleasant and mindless comments.

TonyMaloney · 10-09-2020 01:09PM

holy ****

a genuine apology on an internet forum. 2020 is nuts

caveat emptor · 10-09-2020 01:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

My kids are in a brand new school, with excellent space a relatively small class sizes compared to some - (24 and 27), however there is no way for the younger classes, juniors to 2nd, that you can realistically enforce distancing over the course of a full day to the extent that restrictions on singing would make a difference. With 20-something or so 4 to 8 year old's in a confined space, the standard shouting, sniffling, touching and sharing that is ongoing for a full day would have far more influence on spread than the odd half hour of singing

Based on what? Every kid doesn't go around and have physical contact with every other kid in the class. Thats the reason for thee pods etc. However they do have to breath the same air. Singing for half an hour may not be so high risk, doing it regularly week after week and the risk increases.

That's the problem with applying the null hypothesis to these epidemiological problems. You don't have to wait for it to occur before you can say it can occur. We know singing / shouting increases the amount of aerosols produced.
We know that the virus can infect via the airborne route.
We know that there have been outbreaks in other countries where large numbers of people were infected while singing etc.

Why the hell would you wait and see if outbreak occurs or state to someone that touching and sharing have more influence. You are talking through your hat.

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1269231868844572673?s=20

s1ippy · 10-09-2020 01:18PM

Paul Reid just responded to the question on News at 1 about how the test is painful for children "We are seeing a lot of brave children as well."

So the problem with the test discomfort is cowardly children.

What happened to the research they were doing into a less invasive swab?

caveat emptor · 10-09-2020 01:20PM

“There have been no cases of outbreaks at schools in this jurisdiction”

Why do they always leave out the yet?

https://twitter.com/gianluc21703420/status/1304012294163238912?s=21

Neyite · 10-09-2020 01:28PM

The talk about singing reminded me of our schools update that there would be no tin whistle lessons this year.

Silver linings and all that.

meeeeh · 10-09-2020 01:37PM

Were we supposed to open schools like Danes do? So if they are getting outbreaks we might just as well open schools our way and see what happens.;)

10-09-2020 01:39PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Based on what? Every kid doesn't go around and have physical contact with every other kid in the class. Thats the reason for thee pods etc. However they do have to breath the same air. Singing for half an hour may not be so high risk, doing it regularly week after week and the risk increases.

That's the problem with applying the null hypothesis to these epidemiological problems. You don't have to wait for it to occur before you can say it can occur. We know singing / shouting increases the amount of aerosols produced.
We know that the virus can infect via the airborne route.
We know that there have been outbreaks in other countries where large numbers of people were infected while singing etc.

Why the hell would you wait and see if outbreak occurs or state to someone that touching and sharing have more influence. You are talking through your hat.

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1269231868844572673?s=20

Thank you once again for telling me what I am thinking Caveat. I never said singing is risk free, I said the behaviours exhibited by small children over the course of a full week would mean the effect of a half hours singing would likely be negligible when added to the full weeks interactions. And the benefit to the child in development, but also in fostering an environment in the classroom which enables improved control of the kids in general, reducing some of the wider risks. Risk cannot be treated in isolation but in the context of all risks, benefits and other factors in the complete environment.
Singing in an environment such as a church, where multiple people are coming from different households for a short period of time is a obvious no no.

irishblessing · 10-09-2020 02:03PM

Supercell wrote: »

See this is the problem, just because I'm not panicking by default means I'm mindless, that's called cognitive dissonance (putting it politely).

Read what I wrote before, my kids are in tiny prefabs, Junior, 1st Class and 3rd class. I don't know what other schools are like where no kid touches each other, at all apparently or plays with the same toys, my kids school certainly doesn't have that luxury, and I'd wager if you looked at that parents kids school that's not really the reality either unless the classes are truly tiny and the kids are older(5th, 6th class perhaps). Its unlikely in any Dublin school I'd guess unless its a very expensive private school.

Stop and think for a moment, does singing really add to it, for my young lot in prefabs, not a jot is my considered, not mindless opinion.
I do appreciate you have your opinion and won't be swayed one bit by this, but for the record I did want to reply to your insulting comment. I don't like reading bickering online so that my final comment on this.

And being cautious and mindful of guidelines and how the virus is spread isn't panic, either. If you're going to say "read what I wrote," then maybe have a more careful read of what Susan posted, which was that her kid is indeed older (5th class) so they're not going to be sharing toys. We're in a small country school ourselves and what I said previously is true for us as is the other national schools of friends in the nearest town and family members of other villages/towns. Seems standard/common enough, as I said before.

We don't need to "stop and think about it," though. Scientific studies have been done and that is what is informing NPEHT with the pubs, for example. It's not my opinion or anyone else's. It's science. :rolleyes:

deliege · 10-09-2020 02:31PM

Dr John Campbell discusses statistics on symptoms presented (or not) by covid-positive kids in the UK, 'might interest some parents (and teachers) here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V5OfP2_LisY (from 5:00).

khalessi · 10-09-2020 02:34PM

s1ippy wrote: »

Paul Reid just responded to the question on News at 1 about how the test is painful for children "We are seeing a lot of brave children as well."

So the problem with the test discomfort is cowardly children.

What happened to the research they were doing into a less invasive swab?

No idea, but kiddo found it fine. I thought there would be a major gagging for the throat swab, but was very surprised there was none despite the guy swabbing different areas of the throat and nose bit felt ticklish but every kid is different.

Fuascailteoir · 10-09-2020 02:48PM

Am I right in thinking that singing and playing musical instruments in school is still allowed?

History Queen · 10-09-2020 02:49PM

Fuascailteoir wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that singing and playing musical instruments in school is still allowed?

Yes with additional precautions. Guidelines linked in my last post

SusanC10 · 10-09-2020 04:00PM

Just back from the school run.
Choir Practice today involved both 5th classes (almost 60 kids) in 1 classroom singing together with 1 Teacher who was not wearing a mask or visor.
Window was open.
Daughter kept her mask on and told her friend to keep hers on too.
Phoned school. Answer machine on and full so could not leave message.

wirelessdude01 · 10-09-2020 04:04PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Just back from the school run.
Choir Practice today involved both 5th classes (almost 60 kids) in 1 classroom singing together with 1 Teacher who was not wearing a mask or visor.
Window was open.
Daughter kept her mask on and told her friend to keep hers on too.
Phoned school. Answer machine on and full so could not leave message.

What is the choir practicing for?

irishblessing · 10-09-2020 04:08PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Just back from the school run.
Choir Practice today involved both 5th classes (almost 60 kids) in 1 classroom singing together with 1 Teacher who was not wearing a mask or visor.
Window was open.
Daughter kept her mask on and told her friend to keep hers on too.
Phoned school. Answer machine on and full so could not leave message.

Madness...

SusanC10 · 10-09-2020 04:16PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What is the choir practicing for?

No idea. That is just how my daughter has described it.

Sammy2012 · 10-09-2020 04:38PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Just back from the school run.
Choir Practice today involved both 5th classes (almost 60 kids) in 1 classroom singing together with 1 Teacher who was not wearing a mask or visor.
Window was open.
Daughter kept her mask on and told her friend to keep hers on too.
Phoned school. Answer machine on and full so could not leave message.

That is not acceptable. As a teacher I cant see how someone would think that it is. As a parent I would be raging. Fair play to your daughter for keeping her mask on.

10-09-2020 04:48PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Just back from the school run.
Choir Practice today involved both 5th classes (almost 60 kids) in 1 classroom singing together with 1 Teacher who was not wearing a mask or visor.
Window was open.
Daughter kept her mask on and told her friend to keep hers on too.
Phoned school. Answer machine on and full so could not leave message.

Strikes me as a bit nuts. Its one thing within in the same class group, but mixing class groups is definitely not adhering to the spirit of the guidelines at least

s1ippy · 10-09-2020 04:50PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

What is the choir practicing for?

Funerals?

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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