How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

vid36

PCros wrote: »

Good question, doesn’t seem to hit them as hard even though they are the worst at social distancing...and that was before schools even returned.

What do you think?

It is too soon to say.

Murple

PCros wrote: »

Let’s remember there are 4000 schools in the country...so that figure is about 1.35% of all schools.

Just another way of looking at it.

Also there has been no outbreaks in schools so far which is positive.

And one way to guarantee no reports of outbreaks in schools is to not test the children. This seems to be the new approach as was confirmed in a report a day or two ago where it was said that depending on the age of the child, they may not even test close contacts as ‘children don’t pass the virus on’.
Seemingly ‘asymptomatic’ now means the same as ‘doesn’t pass it on’.

Icyseanfitz

PCros wrote: »

Good question, doesn’t seem to hit them as hard even though they are the worst at social distancing...and that was before schools even returned.

What do you think?

I think they are young human beings so no I highly doubt they are immune, and I would imagine spread it just as effectively as 20+ year olds.

Didn't I hear yesterday there was a poor toddler fighting for its life in hospital with covid-19

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Are 13-19 year olds immune?

There are lots of studies emerging on potential cross immunity with the 4 H CoV viruses that cause a proportion of common colda. They don’t give immunity as such but do confer resistance to the more serious effects. Kids as we know are exposed to far more colds in their day to day life so may have more active resistance to SARS-CoV2 due to a more recent exposure to a H CoVThis hypothesis is around a few months now so we should see some more details emerging on this before long.

But in answer to your question on 13 to 19 year olds being immune. A proportion are immune beyond doubt. Those who have had the virus.

Icyseanfitz

Deleted User wrote: »

There are lots of studies emerging on potential cross immunity with the 4 H CoV viruses that cause a proportion of common colda. They don’t give immunity as such but do confer resistance to the more serious effects. Kids as we know are exposed to far more colds in their day to day life so may have more active resistance to SARS-CoV2 due to a more recent exposure to a H CoVThis hypothesis is around a few months now so we should see some more details emerging on this before long.

But in answer to your question on 13 to 19 year olds being immune. A proportion are immune beyond doubt. Those who have had the virus.

Hasn't reinfection been confirmed?

So exposure to the common cold and flu builds an immunity? What about all the health care workers that got covid? Surely they are exposed to the common cold. And teaching staff? Surely they will have a high immunity considering their exposure is the same as said students.

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Are 13-19 year olds immune?

Hard to find the info for the upper age range you mention , but re 5 to 14 year olds there was this from Prof Nolan of NPHET on 23 Aug 2020

"We have seen 100 cases in children aged between five and 14 years of age in the last two weeks.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/coronavirus-ireland-100-children-diagnosed-with-covid-19-in-last-two-weeks-39471342.html

kippy

Scoondal wrote: »

What were the logistical issues ?
Cases were 10 to 20 per day in June. The country was easing lockdown restrictions during May and June.
In August, cases were starting to increase up to 100 per day and 3 counties were under increased lockdown restrictions. But schools re-opened.
Schools could have re-opened on a part-time or trial basis to give students a connection back to their schools. Over 5 months out of school for most children is not good for their overall development.

Logistical issues around the prep required to get the schools to the point where they are at now...you obviously have no idea of the money spent or additional work done in schools over the past 6 or more weeks.

Icyseanfitz

Balagan1 wrote: »

Hard to find the info for the upper age range you mention , but re 5 to 14 year olds there was this from Prof Nolan of NPHET on 23 Aug 2020

"We have seen 100 cases in children aged between five and 14 years of age in the last two weeks.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/coronavirus-ireland-100-children-diagnosed-with-covid-19-in-last-two-weeks-39471342.html

Well that answers that, and if kids can get the virus they logically can spread it too

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Hasn't reinfection been confirmed?

So exposure to the common cold and flu builds an immunity? What about all the health care workers that got covid? Surely they are exposed to the common cold. And teaching staff? Surely they will have a high immunity considering their exposure is the same as said students.

First question: Not everyone will get immunity if they have had a virus, however most will. How long this will last has yet to be seen.

Second question: There is some evidence and research papers identifying cross immunity between different types of coronavirus, including COVID-19, however this confers some level of resistance to the worst effects and not immunity as most would understand. The 4 types of coronavirus that cause common cold are estimated to account for 10-15% of colds (adenovirus and rhinovirus being the most common), so for the majority of colds there will be no cross immunity. There is also no link whatsoever between Covid and flu. The cross immunity hypothesis is only a hypothesis as yet, but the studies do identify a mechanism by which a lot of the population may have some resistance which could possibly explain how we have such a wide range of seriousness of the effects, even within similar demographics and pre existing conditions. Lots of people with serious heart, lung or other issues have experienced mild or asymptomatic versions also.

Icyseanfitz

Deleted User wrote: »

First question: Not everyone will get immunity if they have had a virus, however most will. How long this will last has yet to be seen.

Second question: There is some evidence an research papers identifying cross immunity between different types of coronavirus, including COVID-19, however this confers some level of resistance to the worst effects and not immunity as most would understand. The 4 types of coronavirus that cause common cold are estimated to account for 10-15% of colds (adenovirus and rhinovirus being the most common), so for the majority of colds there will be no cross immunity. There is also no link whatsoever between Covid and flu. The cross immunity hypothesis is only a hypothesis as yet, but the studies do identify a mechanism by which a lot of the population may have some resistance which could possibly explain how we have such a wide range of seriousness of the effects, even within similar demographics and pre existing conditions. Lots of people with serious heart, lung or other issues have experienced mild or asymptomatic versions also.

my non medically trained layman's view on this is that everything is currently a theory, the virus is too new to understand how it works with or against other covid strains, nearly everything with covid-19 is still a guessing game, so for people to come out and say kids between the ages of 4-19 are at no risk of catching it and then spreading it, screams complete madness to me. Always er on the side of caution with these things.

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

First question: Not everyone will get immunity if they have had a virus, however most will. How long this will last has yet to be seen.

Second question: There is some evidence and research papers identifying cross immunity between different types of coronavirus, including COVID-19, however this confers some level of resistance to the worst effects and not immunity as most would understand. The 4 types of coronavirus that cause common cold are estimated to account for 10-15% of colds (adenovirus and rhinovirus being the most common), so for the majority of colds there will be no cross immunity. There is also no link whatsoever between Covid and flu. The cross immunity hypothesis is only a hypothesis as yet, but the studies do identify a mechanism by which a lot of the population may have some resistance which could possibly explain how we have such a wide range of seriousness of the effects, even within similar demographics and pre existing conditions. Lots of people with serious heart, lung or other issues have experienced mild or asymptomatic versions also.

Lot of noise there and not a lot of signal. You can't really say anything about it so.
We'll have to wait and see. It's only been 8 months. It's good practice to err on side of caution with a novel virus though. Plenty of examples in history in history where this would have been beneficial. Aids was originally mocked as the "gay flu". This is being mocked as the old persons flu.

caveat emptor

https://twitter.com/Evie_Nevin/status/1303750516078530560?s=20

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

Lot of noise there and not a lot of signal. You can't really say anything about it so.
We'll have to wait and see. It's only been 8 months. It's good practice to err on side of caution with a novel virus though. Plenty of examples in history in history where this would have been beneficial. Aids was originally mocked as the "gay flu". This is being mocked as the old persons flu.

Not settled science and not evidence of immunity in kids but it does give good hypothesis as to why it may be impacting them less

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0306987720317874

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/early/2020/08/04/science.abd3871

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/immune-cells-common-cold-may-recognize-sars-cov-2

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2550-z

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/apa.15407

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Well that answers that, and if kids can get the virus they logically can spread it too

I understand that children age 0 to 10 spread it far less (but not zero) than 10 to 19 year olds who spread it as much as adults. Children also much less likely to show symptoms. Hunt around for info on the internet, there are some pretty reputable sources.

Icyseanfitz

Balagan1 wrote: »

I understand that children age 0 to 10 spread it far less (but not zero) than 10 to 19 year olds who spread it as much as adults. Children also much less likely to show symptoms. Hunt around for info on the internet, there are some pretty reputable sources.

Its all assumptions, theories and guessing at the moment, one day you will see someone "reputable" Saying that they believe that kids won't catch or spread, next day you'll have another reputable person say the opposite. It's too new, they don't know anything for sure.

Icyseanfitz

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Its all assumptions, theories and guessing at the moment, one day you will see someone "reputable" Saying that they believe that kids won't catch or spread, next day you'll have another reputable person say the opposite. It's too new, they don't know anything for sure.

As you say, it is indeed early days for any definite knowledge. The sources I was referring to were not from individuals but were research based data but I know that we all have our own idea of which organizations we would tend to trust which is why I did not post any links. I haven't read anything anywhere though which says that kids don't catch and spread. Difficult, difficult times.

Scoondal

Deleted User wrote: »

There are lots of studies emerging on potential cross immunity with the 4 H CoV viruses that cause a proportion of common colda. They don’t give immunity as such but do confer resistance to the more serious effects. Kids as we know are exposed to far more colds in their day to day life so may have more active resistance to SARS-CoV2 due to a more recent exposure to a H CoVThis hypothesis is around a few months now so we should see some more details emerging on this before long.

But in answer to your question on 13 to 19 year olds being immune. A proportion are immune beyond doubt. Those who have had the virus.

I heard similar information last May. But primary schools stayed shut in June when daily cases were 10 to 20. The current situation is worse than June for re-opening schools. Why are schools open now but not last June ?

khalessi

Scoondal wrote: »

I heard similar information last May. But primary schools stayed shut in June when daily cases were 10 to 20. The current situation is worse than June for re-opening schools. Why are schools open now but not last June ?

Well as you have been told before it was a NPHET and DOE decision so ask them

selectamatic

Scoondal wrote: »

I heard similar information last May. But primary schools stayed shut in June when daily cases were 10 to 20. The current situation is worse than June for re-opening schools. Why are schools open now but not last June ?

We'd have been closing again at the end of June though...

No point opening up for a fortnight or 3 weeks.

Scoondal

khalessi wrote: »

Well as you have been told before it was a NPHET and DOE decision so ask them

Nphet or the Department of Education are not on this forum. Are you telling me to go away ?
I thought that this was a discussion forum.

Scoondal

selectamatic wrote: »

We'd have been closing again at the end of June though...

No point opening up for a fortnight or 3 weeks.

Why not ?

khalessi

Scoondal wrote: »

Nphet or the Department of Education are not on this forum. Are you telling me to go away ?
I thought that this was a discussion forum.

Did I say go away? Interesting assumption. Would you like their phone number or email?

selectamatic

Scoondal wrote: »

Why not ?

It'd have been a waste of time..

Majority of kids had tuned out from working online and were getting into summer mode.

Lots of options opened up for playing and socialising safely outside. Summer camps, gaa and many other sports so the social aspect of things was effectively taken care of.

If it was for purely educational purposes we'd have needed to open up and stay open all summer but there'd never have been enough of an appetite in government to gather up enough money to pay teachers for the extra 2 months work.

combat14

great to see some new ideas on how country can tackle the virus

https://www.newstalk.com/news/people-will-inevitably-dying-covid-19-weeks-mcconkey-1073257

Scoondal

selectamatic wrote: »

It'd have been a waste of time..

Majority of kids had tuned out from working online and were getting into summer mode.

Lots of options opened up for playing and socialising safely outside. Summer camps, gaa and many other sports so the social aspect of things was effectively taken care of.

If it was for purely educational purposes we'd have needed to open up and stay open all summer but there'd never have been enough of an appetite in government to gather up enough money to pay teachers for the extra 2 months work.

My child "tuned out" in May. So having a couple of hours a week in June could have tuned him back in to the "home school". I am not saying that schools should have been open in July or August !

My son finished school in the middle of March. There was no further connection between the school and the pupil after that. Lists of work were sent to me so that I could teach my child at home. An attempt was made to provide videos of the teacher with the text book ... it was laughable.

khalessi

Scoondal wrote: »

My child "tuned out" in May. So having a couple of hours a week in June could have tuned him back in to the "home school". I am not saying that schools should have been open in July or August !

My son finished school in the middle of March. There was no further connection between the school and the pupil after that. Lists of work were sent to me so that I could teach my child at home. An attempt was made to provide videos of the teacher with the text book ... it was laughable.

So much that schools are back and you are still going on about it. Have you mentioned this since they reopened?

Jaded Walker

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'd love to believe it, but I don't.

Nobody seems to know if any case where a child from.s class where there was a case will be linked to that case if it's identified at home.
Also most kids are asymptomatic so well never know if they were infected.

wirelessdude01

Scoondal wrote: »

I heard similar information last May. But primary schools stayed shut in June when daily cases were 10 to 20. The current situation is worse than June for re-opening schools. Why are schools open now but not last June ?

Ask the government.

downthemiddle

Scoondal wrote: »

Nphet or the Department of Education are not on this forum. Are you telling me to go away ?
I thought that this was a discussion forum.

Unless Leo Varadkar, Joe McHugh or Tony Holohan post on the forum it is unlikely anyone is in a position to discuss why they made those decisions last May.

kippy

Scoondal wrote: »

I heard similar information last May. But primary schools stayed shut in June when daily cases were 10 to 20. The current situation is worse than June for re-opening schools. Why are schools open now but not last June ?

Logistics and uncertainty.
(Second time I have said this)
Read back a few posts for the idiots guide to the answer.....