Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

Ficheall · 09-09-2020 10:37PM

normanoffside wrote: »

It's ridiculous because if Kids are getting sniffles and their parents aren't it's obviously a cold and not covid...

Why is this "obvious"?

mountgomery burns · 09-09-2020 10:38PM

Arghus wrote: »

If the government could magically come up with the money to keep pubs shut and pay the bills for publicans during all this I guarantee you we'd hear precious little about the fate of the poor isolated rural drinker with the pub as his only social outlet.

What sort of ridiculous hypothetical is that?

There's loads of businesses with the hand out (totally justifiably in many cases) yet you're choosing to single out those who still haven't gotten the chance to open as greedy??

I don't think the government has an anti-drink/anti-pub agenda for a second, but I can see why people feel that sentiment may exist based on the above.

Goldengirl · 09-09-2020 10:39PM

normanoffside wrote: »

By overwhelmed I don't mean incredibly busy, I mean not having the capacity to go out and test the Nursing home staff, meat plants and DP centres etc....

That is not the fault of parents who have been issued with guidelines and have been sent by GPs to get children tested.

That is the fault of poor planning and preparation by the HSE for testing , yet again .

If there is not enough capacity to keep testing nursing homes and meat plants and other clusters, as well as schoolchildren when opening up schools , how will there be enough testing if we have a surge in community transmission

political analyst · 09-09-2020 10:40PM

'Long Covid' sufferers probably constitute a small percentage of those non-vulnerable people who got the virus and survived it. Therefore, governments need to calm down. After all, Sweden avoided having a national lockdown and its fatality rate was no higher than that of most other countries.

Goldengirl · 09-09-2020 10:41PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Would appear so. Beaumont still reporting the highest number of paitents at 14.

Yes .
Beaumont already had 11 cases didn't they , before they had the 3 added the other day ?

khalessi · 09-09-2020 10:41PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

No they should stay at home and watch cartoons like the rest of us did when we had the sniffles. They aren’t vulnerable unless they have some other condition. Keep them at home and away from everyone else until they feel better.

By the time a kid has the sniffles they will have passed it on to others. So they need to be tested like everyone else. And kids can be vunerable without underlying conditions, there are a lesser number of them and a smaller number of them could get MIS-C.

Kids for the most part will have a sniffle but it is impossible to tell which kid that will be. And a kid sitting undiagnosed could be passing it on to other members of the family unknowingly

titan18 · 09-09-2020 10:42PM

normanoffside wrote: »

By overwhelmed I don't mean incredibly busy, I mean not having the capacity to go out and test the Nursing home staff, meat plants and DP centres etc....

They apparently are though. Had read this earlier this week

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40043975.html?type=amp

09-09-2020 10:43PM

political analyst wrote: »

'Long Covid' sufferers probably constitute a small percentage of those non-vulnerable people who got the virus and survived it. Therefore, governments need to calm down. After all, Sweden avoided having a national lockdown and its fatality rate was no higher than that of most other countries.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/sweden-s-grim-covid-19-result-more-death-and-nearly-equal-economic-damage-1.4300102

Non solum non ambulabit · 09-09-2020 10:46PM

DubInMeath wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/sweden-s-grim-covid-19-result-more-death-and-nearly-equal-economic-damage-1.4300102

That article is over 2 months old??

normanoffside · 09-09-2020 10:46PM

Ficheall wrote: »

Why is this "obvious"?

Because adults are more susceptible to Covid and less susceptible to colds. Kids the opposite.
If kids are bringing sniffles back from schools and their parents are not getting sick then it is most likely to be not to be Covid.

The anecdotal evidence of kids queuing up to be tested while their parents are not kind of paints a picture here...

odyssey06 · 09-09-2020 10:47PM

political analyst wrote: »

'Long Covid' sufferers probably constitute a small percentage of those non-vulnerable people who got the virus and survived it. Therefore, governments need to calm down. After all, Sweden avoided having a national lockdown and its fatality rate was no higher than that of most other countries.

It was far higher than any other scandinavian country and its economy stil shrank by 8 percent. Sweden is not and cannot be a model for Ireland.

NegativeCreep · 09-09-2020 10:48PM

khalessi wrote: »

By the time a kid has the sniffles they will have passed it on to others. So they need to be tested like everyone else. And kids can be vunerable without underlying conditions, there are a lesser number of them and a smaller number of them could get MIS-C.

Kids for the most part will have a sniffle but it is impossible to tell which kid that will be. And a kid sitting undiagnosed could be passing it on to other members of the family unknowingly

If it’s a choice between testing school children and testing nursing homes I think the choice is fairly obvious

khalessi · 09-09-2020 10:50PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Because adults are more susceptible to Covid and less susceptible to colds. Kids the opposite.
If kids are bringing sniffles back from schools and their parents are not getting sick then it is most likely to be not to be Covid.

The anecdotal evidence of kids queuing up to be tested while their parents are not kind of paints a picture here...

yeah the picture is of parents following guidelines.
Children cannot be in school coughing and they cannot be sitting at home possibly passing it on to someone vunerable. It also shows me that some people dont have a clue if they are advising children not to be tested. Medical degree from Google is it?

Tell me which study did you get the parents arent sick its not covid from?

Goldengirl · 09-09-2020 10:50PM

US2 wrote: »

The child shouldn't be going to school if they have symptoms regardless of a test.

Big difference as to whether they go back when better or have to isolate for 14 days and family have to restrict movements , you know .

Ficheall · 09-09-2020 10:53PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Because adults are more susceptible to Covid and less susceptible to colds. Kids the opposite.
If kids are bringing sniffles back from schools and their parents are not getting sick then it is most likely to be not to be Covid.

I thought people were saying the chances of kids passing on the disease were negligible?

manofwisdom · 09-09-2020 10:53PM

I see on the Irish examiner that Serial Covid-19 testing of meat plant staff has suspended until next week.

I'd have to agree with Independent TD Denis Naughten.

the suspension is unacceptable. “The programme of testing of the meat plants has only just commenced,” he said.

“The HSE should have been doing this over the last number of months and shouldn’t have long fingered this issue. “It is a priority to deal with the problem that has been ongoing in meat plants across the country, that has led to various outbreaks of infection across the country.

“And it’s an imperative that we irradiate this problem from meat plans as soon as possible.”

09-09-2020 10:54PM

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

That article is over 2 months old??

Plenty of newer ones with a similar tale to tell, just can't be arsed linking when certain people are concerned.

09-09-2020 10:57PM

NegativeCreep wrote: »

If it’s a choice between testing school children and testing nursing homes I think the choice is fairly obvious

Yes, test symptomatic children ahead of asymptomatic people in nursing home, as if you miss a lot a community cases it will get into the nursing homes eventually anyway, whereas if you reduce community transmission, the risk of it getting into care homes is also reduced

Goldengirl · 09-09-2020 10:59PM

political analyst wrote: »

'Long Covid' sufferers probably constitute a small percentage of those non-vulnerable people who got the virus and survived it. Therefore, governments need to calm down. After all, Sweden avoided having a national lockdown and its fatality rate was no higher than that of most other countries.

Massively higher than all its neighbours . But you know that .

fritzelly · 09-09-2020 11:04PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

HSE also advertising for community swabbers

https://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/jobs/job-search/patient-and-client-care/hbs09306-community-swabber.html

Kinda surprised they are not looking for more qualified (if it exists) staff
Going by that requirements basic education is all that's needed

Goldengirl · 09-09-2020 11:04PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Because adults are more susceptible to Covid and less susceptible to colds. Kids the opposite.
If kids are bringing sniffles back from schools and their parents are not getting sick then it is most likely to be not to be Covid.

The anecdotal evidence of kids queuing up to be tested while their parents are not kind of paints a picture here...

Only if you don't know about incubation periods , asymptomatic and pre symptomatic spread .
You know, all the research and studies that have been discussed on these threads for the last six months or thereabouts .
You and your pals appear to be trolling here really .

Martina1991 · 09-09-2020 11:10PM

Goldengirl wrote:

Swabs taken but not sent to lab in time/ unable to complete today as workload already massive?

seanb85 wrote:

I would suggest the mass testing in nursing homes and meat plants be done via batch testing. So you pool say 200 samples and retest all individuals only if a positive arises. That's how Wuhan tested (or claimed to) test 9 million people.

In terms of capacity in the labs, buy more equipment. Hire every single medical lab scientist graduate on a 12 month covid contract. Use University labs, agriculture labs, fish farm labs. Biochem and other science graduates hire them, and show them how to do covid tests, give them 12 month contracts and offer them free post grads once this is over. Emergency response needs more than just saying things are too difficult. Figure it out.

Pooled samples, to the extent of 200 would severely dilute the smaple so that any viral material would be too low to detect.

There are far bigger issues than just buying more equipment. Labs are still having issues sourcing reagents and materials, not just for Covid.

About 30% of med lab graduates go into pharmaceuticals instead of hospital labs as the conditions continue to deteriorate and staff are paid less than other HSCPs. No one wants to spend their nights and weekends being overworked, understaffed and disrupting your sleep patterns when a Monday to Friday job is less hassle.

You can't just start using random graduates or labs to do covid testing. Theyre not accredited to work in a healthcare setting.

normanoffside · 09-09-2020 11:22PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Only if you don't know about incubation periods , asymptomatic and pre symptomatic spread .
You know, all the research and studies that have been discussed on these threads for the last six months or thereabouts .
You and your pals appear to be trolling here really .

Hold on, why are you accusing me of trolling?

Have studies not shown that kids are unlikely to suffer symptoms of Covid?
That adults are more likely to suffer from symptoms?
That kids are unlikely to get Covid from other kids and on the rare occasion they do suffer they are likely to have picked it up from adults?
Therefore in a household of adults and kids If only the kids have sniffles, surely it’s unlikely they have Covid.

What I am saying more than anything though is that Highly vulnerable groups should be given priority for testing over much less vulnerable groups. How is saying that ‘Trolling’?

If the deaths in recent days turn out to be caused by lack of priority given to testing in nursing home, then the HSE will have blood in their Hands again and it seems they will not have learned from earlier lessons.

Goldengirl · 09-09-2020 11:23PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

Pooled samples, to the extent of 200 would severely dilute the smaple so that any viral material would be too low to detect.

There are far bigger issues than just buying more equipment. Labs are still having issues sourcing reagents and materials, not just for Covid.

About 30% of med lab graduates go into pharmaceuticals instead of hospital labs as the conditions continue to deteriorate and staff are paid less than other HSCPs. No one wants to spend their nights and weekends being overworked, understaffed and disrupting your sleep patterns when a Monday to Friday job is less hassle.

You can't just start using random graduates or labs to do covid testing. Theyre not accredited to work in a healthcare setting.

So can you say why always larger numbers on Tuesday and Saturday ?
More staff on duty testing ?

Goldengirl · 09-09-2020 11:26PM

fritzelly wrote: »

Kinda surprised they are not looking for more qualified (if it exists) staff
Going by that requirements basic education is all that's needed

Not difficult once well trained and supervised .

Most of those job requirements would be under the all encompassing " similar applicable skills".

khalessi · 09-09-2020 11:27PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Hold on, why are you accusing me of trolling?

Have studies not shown that kids are unlikely to suffer symptoms of Covid?
That adults are more likely to suffer from symptoms?
That kids are unlikely to get Covid from other kids and on the rare occasion they do suffer they are likely to have picked it up from adults?
Therefore in a household of adults and kids If only the kids have sniffles, surely it’s unlikely they have Covid.

What I am saying more than anything though is that Highly vulnerable groups should be given priority for testing over much less vulnerable groups. How is saying that ‘Trolling’?

If the deaths in recent days turn out to be caused by lack of priority given to testing in nursing home, then the HSE will have blood in their Hands again and it seems they will not have learned from earlier lessons.

Studies have shown that 0-5 years olds have as much if not more coronavirus in their nose as adults.
Studies have also shown that 10 years old + can spread it as easily as adults, as was alluded to by Mike Ryan WHO when interivewed by Sarah McInerney a few weeks ago.
Studies have shown that children may be asymptomatic carriers of Covid19

So the HSE should be covering all angles. If a child has symptoms they should be tested as per protocol. I presume having written the protocol the HSE had a reason for it.

seanb85 · 09-09-2020 11:27PM

Martina1991 wrote: »

Pooled samples, to the extent of 200 would severely dilute the smaple so that any viral material would be too low to detect.

There are far bigger issues than just buying more equipment. Labs are still having issues sourcing reagents and materials, not just for Covid.

About 30% of med lab graduates go into pharmaceuticals instead of hospital labs as the conditions continue to deteriorate and staff are paid less than other HSCPs. No one wants to spend their nights and weekends being overworked, understaffed and disrupting your sleep patterns when a Monday to Friday job is less hassle.

You can't just start using random graduates or labs to do covid testing. Theyre not accredited to work in a healthcare setting.

I appreciate that none of what I suggested is perfect but surely in an emergency we need to figure something out? Everytime we have an increase in testing demand we seem to be falling short.

A salmon testing lab in the Faroe Islands was adapted to do the testing, managed a capacity of 1,000 tests a day.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/08/vetinary-scientist-hailed-faroe-islands-lack-covid-19-deaths

Martina1991 · 09-09-2020 11:29PM

Goldengirl wrote:

So can you say why always larger numbers on Tuesday and Saturday ? More staff on duty testing ?

There are far less staff on weekends. The number of positive swabs people report here each day doesn't fluctuate erratically like the number of cases reported.

Its the method of reporting thats inconsistant. I dont know why they do that.

JP Liz V1 · 09-09-2020 11:34PM

manofwisdom wrote: »

I see on the Irish examiner that Serial Covid-19 testing of meat plant staff has suspended until next week.

I'd have to agree with Independent TD Denis Naughten.

the suspension is unacceptable. “The programme of testing of the meat plants has only just commenced,” he said.

“The HSE should have been doing this over the last number of months and shouldn’t have long fingered this issue. “It is a priority to deal with the problem that has been ongoing in meat plants across the country, that has led to various outbreaks of infection across the country.

“And it’s an imperative that we irradiate this problem from meat plans as soon as possible.”

We need to get the testing under control, more centres even pop up ones and less waiting for tests and results, stopping in highly contagious vulnerable places is a big no no

normanoffside · 09-09-2020 11:34PM

khalessi wrote: »

Studies have shown that 0-5 years olds have as much if not more coronavirus in their nose as adults.
Studies have also shown that 10 years old + can spread it as easily as adults, as was alluded to by Mike Ryan WHO when interivewed by Sarah McInerney a few weeks ago.
Studies have shown that children may be asymptomatic carriers of Covid19

So the HSE should be covering all angles. If a child has symptoms they should be tested as per protocol. I presume having written the protocol the HSE had a reason for it.

They might have virus in their nose but they are less likely to have symptoms and very unlikely to have adverse effects. Adults in their company should be showing symptoms at a higher rate than they are.

Patients in nursing homes are 100s of times more vulnerable, our death figures already show this. They should be given more priority if there are capacity issues.

Never assume the HSE have good reason for anything. The last 20 years of the HSE shows we should always be questioning them.

Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

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