Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

JRant · 08-09-2020 10:46PM

road_high wrote: »

This shambles is turning into public fury now.
And to add to this their precious lockdowns were a wonderful solution for the peasants of LOK (not a thought was put into them, it was just announced one Friday evening and it was tough ****) but seemingly a complete NoNo for a large city like Dublin with a far more concentrated mixing population. Nothing to do with the huge over representation of Dublin at senior Cabinet and all levels on media and public services

Yep, the 2/3 meat factories that cause the LOK lockdown got to remain open while smaller businesses were punished. Add in the fact exemptions were made for horse racing and the 10's of thousands who travelled to Dublin for work and it was a complete farce.

Lockdowns do not work, have never worked and will never work.

road_high · 08-09-2020 10:50PM

JRant wrote: »

Yep, the 2/3 meat factories that cause the LOK lockdown got to remain open while smaller businesses were punished. Add in the fact exemptions were made for horse racing and the 10's of thousands who travelled to Dublin for work and it was a complete farce.

Lockdowns do not work, have never worked and will never work.

Lockdowns are a complete farce alright. Sad it’s taken so much damage to be proven right. I wish the lockdowns had worked but they haven’t and repeating the same failures over and over won’t. Time we faced up to it and abandon this failed strategy

stephenjmcd · 08-09-2020 10:54PM

road_high wrote: »

Lockdowns are a complete farce alright. Sad it’s taken so much damage to be proven right. I wish the lockdowns had worked but they haven’t and repeating the same failures over and over won’t. Time we faced up to it and abandon this failed strategy

https://twitter.com/danobrien20/status/1303441725747273734?s=19

dalyboy · 08-09-2020 11:03PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/danobrien20/status/1303441725747273734?s=19

Laughable ..... “there is no evidence the virus has become less lethal.”

Has he seen the numbers of fatalities in the last 4-8 weeks ?

Do they not spell out clear evidence to the contrary??

road_high · 08-09-2020 11:08PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Laughable ..... “there is no evidence the virus has become less lethal.”

Has he seen the numbers of fatalities in the last 4-8 weeks ?

Do they not spell out clear evidence to the contrary??

I think that is possibly worded incorrectly.
I think he may mean the virus has not changed or mutated but isnt killing people. That is hugely positive when you think about it

NIMAN · 08-09-2020 11:09PM

It's quite clear the NPHET guys will be going mad today With the announcement the pubs are allowed to open. It's clear the decision was taken out of their hands.

The pubs were cancelled twice before when the numbers of new cases wasn't bad, now the numbers are going crazy yet it's "ah sure open up lads, it'll be grand".

thebaz · 08-09-2020 11:14PM

Good to see some good advice from WHO - ie we have to live with the virus - its impossible to stop this virus as it has spread throughout the world - We should be focussing on fatalities and the vulnerable, and how to protect them ,rather than getting into a daily fear driven panic about number of cases - Some people here really wont be happy until we go into lockdown again , but the casualities from other illnesses dont seam to matter , we can not stop Covid, but we can protect the vulnerable - and if we need to flatten the curve again cause the health service is under pressure - warn the public them , but these daily fear driven number of cases really seam to do nothing , except scare an already over anxious public and stop the majority of people from trying to live some form of regular life, rather than heading into an unknown armageddon of a recession, that is just around the corner, with another lockdown . Lockdown should ONLY be for when we are in a real CRISIS ie Health service creeking , and/or large increase in number of deaths.

funnydoggy · 08-09-2020 11:18PM

Mike Ryan from the WHO said it a few months ago, but people didn't listen - we have to come to terms that this virus isn't going away itself without a vaccine and that we need to learn to live with it. I agree with him, and sometimes it's echoed by NPHET or the government but people don't seem to listen.

Given that, though there are restrictions in place, many businesses are opening up yet we have so few cases, majority being asymptomatic & in younger people, we're doing alright for now. When pubs reopen, we'll probably see an uptick in cases but if it stays at a stable figure, we can ride this into 2021 until the vaccine comes.

thebaz · 08-09-2020 11:18PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Laughable ..... “there is no evidence the virus has become less lethal.”

Has he seen the numbers of fatalities in the last 4-8 weeks ?

Do they not spell out clear evidence to the contrary??

I would hope that some form of herd immunity is actually occuring and making virus less dangerous.

Strumms · 08-09-2020 11:20PM

thebaz wrote: »

Good to see some good advice from WHO - ie we have to live with the virus - its impossible to stop this virus as it has spread throughout the world - We should be focussing on fatalities and the vulnerable, and how to protect them ,rather than getting into a daily fear driven panic about number of cases - Some people here really wont be happy until we go into lockdown again , but the casualities from other illnesses dont seam to matter , we can not stop Covid, but we can protect the vulnerable - and if we need to flatten the curve again cause the health service is under pressure - warn the public them , but these daily fear driven number of cases really seam to do nothing , except scare an already over anxious public and stop the majority of people from trying to live some form of regular life, rather than heading into an unknown armageddon of a recession, that is just around the corner, with another lockdown . Lockdown should ONLY be for when we are in a real CRISIS ie Health service creeking , and/or large increase in number of deaths.

We have to live with it yes.

Impossible to stop it ? No !

“it’s impossible to stop the virus” have you a source for this commentary?

road_high · 08-09-2020 11:23PM

NIMAN wrote: »

It's quite clear the NPHET guys will be going mad today With the announcement the pubs are allowed to open. It's clear the decision was taken out of their hands.

The pubs were cancelled twice before when the numbers of new cases wasn't bad, now the numbers are going crazy yet it's "ah sure open up lads, it'll be grand".

There’s a slow realisation sinking in. A vaccine (if ever) may be years off and this can’t go on. And it can’t like this.
And with the (very welcome) low/non existent death rate a slight bit of proportion is slowly creeping in

road_high · 08-09-2020 11:25PM

Strumms wrote: »

We have to live with it yes.

Impossible to stop it ? No !

“it’s impossible to stop the virus” have you a source for this commentary?

Impossible due to the simple fact it’s still there. Unless you find and kill all the human hosts it ain’t going anywhere. Even Blessed Saint Jacinda found out the hard way

thebaz · 08-09-2020 11:26PM

Strumms wrote: »

We have to live with it yes.

Impossible to stop it ? No !

“it’s impossible to stop the virus” have you a source for this commentary?

Once the virus spread outside Wuhan , it was impossible to stop - New Zealand tried but failed , probaly a lot more cases , but people were probably afraid to get tested - The virus is out ther -- its like saying erradicate the Flu , you cant , once it starts spreading , maybe if everyone stayed indoor for 6 months of winter, but thats not really living and society would shut down after about 3 months.

road_high · 08-09-2020 11:30PM

thebaz wrote: »

Once the virus spread outside Wuhan , it was impossible to stop - New Zealand tried but failed , probaly a lot more cases , but people were probably afraid to get tested - The virus is out ther -- its like saying erradicate the Flu , you cant , once it starts spreading , maybe if everyone stayed indoor for 6 months of winter, but thats not really living and society would shut down after about 3 months.

Yep. Once a respiratory virus is endemic it is virtually impossible to control especially one that is easily transmissible like C19.
Those banging on about elimination like Arderne and our own headbangers like Killeen and Ryan might as well be on planet zog where they belong

Birdie Num Num · 08-09-2020 11:31PM

thebaz wrote: »

and/or large increase in number of deaths.

At that stage I would imagine it would be a bit too late. There would already be many more in ICU by then. And people don’t just go into ICU one day and leave the next. They can be months in ICU before there is an outcome one way or the other.

Strumms · 08-09-2020 11:33PM

road_high wrote: »

Impossible due to the simple fact it’s still there. Unless you find and kill all the human hosts it ain’t going anywhere. Even Blessed Saint Jacinda found out the hard way

When the vaccine gets up, approved, manufactured and distributed then, a la smallpox the virus in time becomes eradicated and in the interim normal life resumes...The last naturally occurring case of smallpox I’m reading was diagnosed in October 1977, and the World Health Organization certified the global eradication of the disease in 1980. Last death was 1978.

froog · 08-09-2020 11:33PM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/danobrien20/status/1303441725747273734?s=19

the smart guys keep saying this, that the virus has not gotten weaker but i wish they'd show some hard evidence. i get that it's a younger demographic contracting it recently but it shouldn't be too hard to show death rates for different age groups back in april versus now.

road_high · 08-09-2020 11:36PM

Strumms wrote: »

When the vaccine gets up, approved, manufactured and distributed then, a la smallpox the virus in time becomes eradicated and in the interim normal life resumes...The last naturally occurring case of smallpox I’m reading was diagnosed in October 1977, and the World Health Organization certified the global eradication of the disease in 1980. Last death was 1978.

I hope so. But as we stand there is no vaccine registered so we have to act on that basis and assumption with sensible restrictions (not lockdowns)

thebaz · 08-09-2020 11:36PM

road_high wrote: »

Yep. Once a respiratory virus is endemic it is virtually impossible to control especially one that is easily transmissible like C19.
Those banging on about elimination like Arderne and our own headbangers like Killeen and Ryan might as well be on planet zog where they belong

Michael Osterholm talk on Joe Rogan back in early March is still relavent , much of what he predicted is still happened , and yet many other experts seam to avoid what he said/warned - he basically said we have to learn to live with this , like what WHO themselves are now saying.
If a short lockdown worked , I'd say do it, and maybe do it again we are in real crisis , like health service crumbing , but not for increased numbers when many are assymptomatic and may have little illness.

Strumms · 08-09-2020 11:38PM

road_high wrote: »

I hope so. But as we stand there is no vaccine registered so we have to act on that basis and assumption with sensible restrictions (not lockdowns)

True, I don’t want a lockdown at all.

The only thing that stops lockdown is sensible and fair and selfless behavior.

Idbatterim · 08-09-2020 11:41PM

Have rte ever reported on the sky falling in?

Birdie Num Num · 08-09-2020 11:48PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

Have rte ever reported on the sky falling in?

Sure they don’t need to. It’s all here in this thread.

moonage · 09-09-2020 12:00AM

thebaz wrote: »

I would hope that some form of herd immunity is actually occuring and making virus less dangerous.

Yes, it seems the widely accepted herd immunity threshold (60-70%) might be much lower for Sars-Cov-2—maybe as low as 20%.

So it might be that the low death/hospitalisation rates are mostly from herd immunity and less from social distancing, masks, hygeine. The sooner the latter three can be ditched the better.

dalyboy · 09-09-2020 01:51AM

Strumms wrote: »

We have to live with it yes.

Impossible to stop it ? No !

“it’s impossible to stop the virus” have you a source for this commentary?

How about this source

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/09/covid-19-new-zealand-records-six-new-coronavirus-cases.html

This after 100+ days of isolation and 4000 km away from any other country
Nuff said

Penfailed · 09-09-2020 06:58AM

road_high wrote: »

This shambles is turning into public fury now.

It's not though. Fury? I don't see it anywhere...except maybe from some posters in here.

CruelSummer · 09-09-2020 07:35AM

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0909/1164060-coronavirus-vaccine-trials/

Interesting development. No details given as to the side effect suffered. I really think we need to learn to live rather than exist until a vaccine becomes available. It isn’t that simple injecting 7 billion people on the planet with a coronavirus vaccine.

The testing system here is under severe pressure due to children getting colds. Children get colds every autumn. Pity they’ve no simple, rapid test developed to eliminate Covid from the equation.

average_runner · 09-09-2020 07:42AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0909/1164060-coronavirus-vaccine-trials/

Interesting development. No details given as to the side effect suffered. I really think we need to learn to live rather than exist until a vaccine becomes available. It isn’t that simple injecting 7 billion people on the planet with a coronavirus vaccine.

There is a 15min test, it is currently in use in America. Hopefully we have it by Jan and then things will change
The testing system here is under severe pressure due to children getting colds. Children get colds every autumn. Pity they’ve so simple, rapid test developed to eliminate Covid from the equation.

There is a 15min test, it is currently in use in America. Hopefully we have it by Jan and then things will change

average_runner · 09-09-2020 07:43AM

What we need to do is figure out why the age group is lower this time and how do we help them stop the spread in a productive way

stephenjmcd · 09-09-2020 07:55AM

Independent reporting that the Dublin outbreaks are concentrated in Dublin West and Dublin South West. They are mostly in family or home settings.

An advertising campaign will be launched in Dublin to urge people to be more cautious and limit their social interactions.

While government sources say that the measures introduced for Kildare, Laois and Offaly couldn't be applied to Dublin.

What is being suggested is similar to what was introduced in Glasgow where visiting others houses would be banned.

munchkin_utd · 09-09-2020 07:55AM

average_runner wrote: »

There is a 15min test, it is currently in use in America. Hopefully we have it by Jan and then things will change

some of the German experts (lads that know their stuff) are saying that the quick tests are looking likely to be a fair bit less sensitive than the PCR tests so wont replace them completely BUT they should be more or less bang on sensitive enough on to pick up whether you have a dose that is strong enough to make you contageous - and for containing the virus thats what really matters.

Along with a sensible (5 or 7 day, proposed by Germany and France respectively) quarantine for people coming from REAL danger zones, this could be the way out of the worst of restrictions for tourism, lockdowns, school closures etc

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings