COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

timsey tiger wrote: »

I have no problem with indemnifying private companies in this case. Our front line workers still draw their salaries and are indemnified. Do you have a problem with that?

AstraZeneca are going to sell this vaccine for just a few dollars a pop.

No I don't have a problem with our front line worked being indemnified. My issue with indemnifying the vaccine producers is that the EU will be liable and ultimately EU citizens will have to foot the bill for any potential litigation that might result from people taking the vaccine.

Would you be ok with EU tax payers money funding any potential compensation payments that are made to people that bring claims against vaccine producers?

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Not concerned about any vaccine in particular tbh it's as the previous poster said about me: Yes, you could just be a self centered misanthropic asshole, who is a low risk group, who couldn't be bothered to help society out.

To be clear I didn't say that about you. I just drew a possible scenario, to answer your question, it didn't preclude other possible scenarios.

But seeing as you are, I couldn't be bothered answering your subsequent questions.

Australia aim to start vaccinating people in January 2021. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54052430

Two advanced purchases from Oxford University/AstraZeneca, while the other is a local one from the University of Queensland and CSL.

Aiming for 95% of people been vaccinated. Good luck with that!

JTMan wrote: »

Australia aim to start vaccinating people in January 2021. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54052430

Two advanced purchases from Oxford University/AstraZeneca, while the other is a local one from the University of Queensland and CSL.

Aiming for 95% of people been vaccinated. Good luck with that!

That just says they have agreed an order. It's good planning but depends on an effective vaccine.

iguana wrote: »

I do think that governments made an absolutely massive mistake stressing that a vaccine could be years and years away. Obviously they couldn't make policy back in February/March around a non-existent vaccine and needed to make plans without relying on future technology. But being more open and stating that we had to plan for no vaccine while being realistically hopeful for one in the near future wouldn't have resulted in so many, many people assuming that any vaccine that's released in late 2020/early 2021 is an unsafely 'rushed' vaccine.

It was the right thing to do and still is, given that only a handful are at Phase 3. It's not dishonest and they are using the past history as a yardstick and that is years and years. One cannot legislate for what people will do and there are any number of "cures" promoted out there that are unsafe. 2020 is very unlikely now as we are now in week 37 of the year and the Russian "vaccine" is the only one claiming to be almost ready.

iguana wrote: »

Mass vaccination of key workers and the military started in China in early July. I don't think they have said with which vaccine yet but vaccination is underway there. Telling people that this could go on for years or that we may never have a vaccine was also dishonest and treating people as simpletons. And it's also made people massively resistant to safety measures as we all know we can't keep living like this indefinitely. Saying that while we have no guarantees, there is every reason to hope we will have a vaccine programme underway within a year of recognising the outbreak here. So lets keep working to save lives until then, would have resulted in a bigger buy in to lockdown measure and restrictions, while also making people less fearful of a supposedly rushed vaccine.

Well, China and Russia can do things and take shortcuts no regulatory authority anywhere else would allow, even if they are following a recognised path. It's not governments who've been stoking the years argument, it's the so-called experts themselves who we've come to rely on in this. No guarantees is a sensible approach and that it will take quite some time just as much. It's far more dishonest to go into countdown mode like Trump with a claim that cannot be supported at this point. Vaccines will come if and when they are ready.

is_that_so wrote: »

No guarantees is a sensible approach and that it will take quite some time just as much. It's far more dishonest to go into countdown mode like Trump with a claim that cannot be supported at this point.

It's not an either/or option. Governments don't have to tell people to prepare that this is for the absolute foreseeable or prepare heavily for a vaccine within a particular near timeframe. They can actually be 100% honest and say "no guarantees, however we can be realistically hopeful about a likely timeframe." If you actually watch the WHO Friday press briefings that's exactly what they are saying. Instead we are given a narrative that this could go on for years and years. So when we get a vaccine in the near future a very significant portion of the population are genuinely scared that it was rushed, when it wasn't. But if enough people don't actually take the vaccine when it comes, it won't work as well as it should.

The only 'silver-lining' in this is that in all likelihood the situation here is likely to get really, really bad again in the next few months. And after the truly shįtty winter we're probably about to experience, more people will take the vaccine in order to avoid it happening again.

is_that_so wrote: »

That just says they have agreed an order. It's good planning but depends on an effective vaccine.

Securing as they are going manufacture UQ-CSL V451 vaccine at CSL plant in Melbourne and ADZ1222 AZ plant in North Ryde, it’s going locally first then probably NZ and PI.

Gael23 wrote: »

Have read a figure of 2 billion Oxford vaccines to be available by next summer if all goes well with trials.
Does that figure make sense?

A lot of ramping up going on to be able to produce that so not a crazy number.

JTMan wrote: »

Australia aim to start vaccinating people in January 2021. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54052430

Two advanced purchases from Oxford University/AstraZeneca, while the other is a local one from the University of Queensland and CSL.

Aiming for 95% of people been vaccinated. Good luck with that!

Anti Vaxxers, most of whom tend to be youngish and healthy will accept no vaccine regardless. Unless the vaccine will save their lives, they are unlikely to take it. Anti vaxxers appear to be a growing minority and could make up 10% of the population.

After that it could be a challenge to get most pro vaccine parents on board to vaccinate their children, as covid is only likely to seriously impact a small number of vulnerable children. The hope is vulnerable children can be vaccinated.

Even getting most health care workers vaccinated could be a challenge. You'd want at least 95% of healthcare workers vaccinated as they deal directly with the most vulnerable.

Its going to be a big challenge to get herd immunity from vaccination and there will have to be a carrot and stick approach taken - eg airlines refusing flights to those not vaccinated etc. Possibly creches taking that approach too. What business wants to shutdown because their staff or customers won't vaccinate.

Its going to be very interesting when the vaccine becomes available who will take it. And without a majority taking it we could be stuck with covid 19 in its current form for years, until a combination of vaccine and infected immunity kicks in.

Possibly creches taking that approach too.

Private creches (which are the vast majority in this country) already do this. You can't send your child to creche without submitting the little yellow vaccine passport with all vaccinations up to date. At least that's been the case in the three different creches in Dublin that my children have attended.

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Anti Vaxxers, most of whom tend to be youngish and healthy will accept no vaccine regardless. Unless the vaccine will save their lives, they are unlikely to take it. Anti vaxxers appear to be a growing minority and could make up 10% of the population.

After that it could be a challenge to get most pro vaccine parents on board to vaccinate their children, as covid is only likely to seriously impact a small number of vulnerable children. The hope is vulnerable children can be vaccinated.

Even getting most health care workers vaccinated could be a challenge. You'd want at least 95% of healthcare workers vaccinated as they deal directly with the most vulnerable.

Its going to be a big challenge to get herd immunity from vaccination and there will have to be a carrot and stick approach taken - eg airlines refusing flights to those not vaccinated etc. Possibly creches taking that approach too. What business wants to shutdown because their staff or customers won't vaccinate.

Its going to be very interesting when the vaccine becomes available who will take it. And without a majority taking it we could be stuck with covid 19 in its current form for years, until a combination of vaccine and infected immunity kicks in.

The tactic around that is they are vaccinating children to protect grandparents etc and nit themselves and their kids as such

iguana wrote: »

I do think that governments made an absolutely massive mistake stressing that a vaccine could be years and years away. Obviously they couldn't make policy back in February/March around a non-existent vaccine and needed to make plans without relying on future technology. But being more open and stating that we had to plan for no vaccine while being realistically hopeful for one in the near future wouldn't have resulted in so many, many people assuming that any vaccine that's released in late 2020/early 2021 is an unsafely 'rushed' vaccine.

Couldn't agree more. Bizarre communication from the government in terms of forward planning throughout this virus. "New normal" is such a weird, terrifying and thankfully incorrect slogan to be throwing around by people with such responsibility. Why haven't they said that we will know a lot more about a vaccine (and improved testing and therapeutics) by the end of the year and from there we will have to plan on how to go forward?

Pfizer have already enrolled 25,000 people in their phase 3 trial
https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-and-pfizer-receive-regulatory-approval-paul-ehrlich

"Pfizer and BioNTech are on track to seek regulatory review for BNT162b2 as early as October 2020 and, if regulatory authorization or approval is obtained, currently plan to supply up to 100 million doses worldwide by the end of 2020 and approximately 1.3 billion doses by the end of 2021."

alentejo wrote: »

Am really depressed at the rise in numbers. We are in a second wave. Over 13000 referred for testing today according to the HSE. We will see 300+ reported during this week.

Sorry to be so negative, but this damn virus seems to have the better of us. A grim winter awaits

I wish government would be more positive

That's a rather oxymoronic post.