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COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Masala

Today being Paddy Day 2020... when do you think we will have a ‘flu jab’ / pill / syrup that we can take to make us immune/ les likely to catch this 19 virus?.

Mod: The purpose of this thread is baked into the title - COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures - it's not a platform to push an anti vaccination agenda. If posters wish to discuss the perceived cons of vaccinations, or push various theories regarding 'the agenda' (whatever that is supposed to mean), open a thread elsewhere on it.

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timsey tiger

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Fair enough but, the fact that the vaccine producers are lobbying the EU for legal protection from any litigation that could result from the potential side effects for people that take the vaccine doesn't inspire my confidence in them.

"Covid-19 vaccine makers lobby EU for legal protection"

https://www.ft.com/content/12f7da5b-92c8-4050-bcea-e726b75eef4d

AstraZeneca has already secured exemptions from coronavirus vaccine liability claims in most countries.

https://uk.mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUKKCN24V2EN

I think it's fair to say that this stance from the vaccine producers will have a negative impact on the amount of people that would are willing to take the vaccine and pour fuel on the anti-vaxxers fire.

I have no problem with indemnifying private companies in this case. Our front line workers still draw their salaries and are indemnified. Do you have a problem with that?

AstraZeneca are going to sell this vaccine for just a few dollars a pop.

LessOutragePlz

timsey tiger wrote: »

I have no problem with indemnifying private companies in this case. Our front line workers still draw their salaries and are indemnified. Do you have a problem with that?

AstraZeneca are going to sell this vaccine for just a few dollars a pop.

No I don't have a problem with our front line worked being indemnified. My issue with indemnifying the vaccine producers is that the EU will be liable and ultimately EU citizens will have to foot the bill for any potential litigation that might result from people taking the vaccine.

Would you be ok with EU tax payers money funding any potential compensation payments that are made to people that bring claims against vaccine producers?

LessOutragePlz

Hmmzis wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, are you concerned about any particular vaccine candidate or a particular platform of vaccines?

There are at least 30 individual candidates in human trials at this point in time and using about half a dozen platform types.

When it comes to vaccinating non-risk groups there will be an even bigger choice of types and manufacturers to chose from, including the current safety champions - sub-unit and VLP types.

Not concerned about any vaccine in particular tbh it's as the previous poster said about me: Yes, you could just be a self centered misanthropic asshole, who is a low risk group, who couldn't be bothered to help society out.

timsey tiger

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Not concerned about any vaccine in particular tbh it's as the previous poster said about me: Yes, you could just be a self centered misanthropic asshole, who is a low risk group, who couldn't be bothered to help society out.

To be clear I didn't say that about you. I just drew a possible scenario, to answer your question, it didn't preclude other possible scenarios.

But seeing as you are, I couldn't be bothered answering your subsequent questions.

LessOutragePlz

timsey tiger wrote: »

To be clear I didn't say that about you. I just drew a possible scenario, to answer your question, it didn't preclude other possible scenarios.

But seeing as you are, I couldn't be bothered answering your subsequent questions.

Can't say I'm surprised to be honest but I think I already knew the answer to my most recent question.

JTMan

Australia aim to start vaccinating people in January 2021. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54052430

Two advanced purchases from Oxford University/AstraZeneca, while the other is a local one from the University of Queensland and CSL.

Aiming for 95% of people been vaccinated. Good luck with that!

Gael23

JTMan wrote: »

Australia aim to start vaccinating people in January 2021. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54052430

Two advanced purchases from Oxford University/AstraZeneca, while the other is a local one from the University of Queensland and CSL.

Aiming for 95% of people been vaccinated. Good luck with that!

I would have thought that’s the aim of most countries

is_that_so

JTMan wrote: »

Australia aim to start vaccinating people in January 2021. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54052430

Two advanced purchases from Oxford University/AstraZeneca, while the other is a local one from the University of Queensland and CSL.

Aiming for 95% of people been vaccinated. Good luck with that!

That just says they have agreed an order. It's good planning but depends on an effective vaccine.

iguana

Hmmzis wrote: »

Just out of curiosity, are you concerned about any particular vaccine candidate or a particular platform of vaccines?

I'll admit that I'd be somewhat nervous about taking the Moderna or another RNA vaccine early next year. I also wouldn't particularly want to take the Russian one and would be wary of taking a vaccine in China right now. I'll be fine with taking ChAdOx1 or another of the viral vector vaccines as soon as I'm eligible for one. And if immunity from the first vaccine released isn't permanent or sterilising I wouldn't be surprised if an RNA vaccine becomes the best protection in the next few years. And I'll take it then. I just, rightly or wrongly, would be nervous taking an RNA vaccine in the next few months.

I do think that governments made an absolutely massive mistake stressing that a vaccine could be years and years away. Obviously they couldn't make policy back in February/March around a non-existent vaccine and needed to make plans without relying on future technology. But being more open and stating that we had to plan for no vaccine while being realistically hopeful for one in the near future wouldn't have resulted in so many, many people assuming that any vaccine that's released in late 2020/early 2021 is an unsafely 'rushed' vaccine.

is_that_so

iguana wrote: »

I do think that governments made an absolutely massive mistake stressing that a vaccine could be years and years away. Obviously they couldn't make policy back in February/March around a non-existent vaccine and needed to make plans without relying on future technology. But being more open and stating that we had to plan for no vaccine while being realistically hopeful for one in the near future wouldn't have resulted in so many, many people assuming that any vaccine that's released in late 2020/early 2021 is an unsafely 'rushed' vaccine.

It was the right thing to do and still is, given that only a handful are at Phase 3. It's not dishonest and they are using the past history as a yardstick and that is years and years. One cannot legislate for what people will do and there are any number of "cures" promoted out there that are unsafe. 2020 is very unlikely now as we are now in week 37 of the year and the Russian "vaccine" is the only one claiming to be almost ready.

iguana

is_that_so wrote: »

It was the right thing to do and still is, given that only a handful are at Phase 3. It's not dishonest and they are using the past history as a yardstick and that is years and years. One cannot legislate for what people will do and there are any number of "cures" promoted out there that are unsafe. 2020 is very unlikely now as we are now in week 37 of the year and the Russian "vaccine" is the only one claiming to be almost ready.

Mass vaccination of key workers and the military started in China in early July. I don't think they have said with which vaccine yet but vaccination is underway there. Telling people that this could go on for years or that we may never have a vaccine was also dishonest and treating people as simpletons. And it's also made people massively resistant to safety measures as we all know we can't keep living like this indefinitely. Saying that while we have no guarantees, there is every reason to hope we will have a vaccine programme underway within a year of recognising the outbreak here. So lets keep working to save lives until then, would have resulted in a bigger buy in to lockdown measure and restrictions, while also making people less fearful of a supposedly rushed vaccine.

is_that_so

iguana wrote: »

Mass vaccination of key workers and the military started in China in early July. I don't think they have said with which vaccine yet but vaccination is underway there. Telling people that this could go on for years or that we may never have a vaccine was also dishonest and treating people as simpletons. And it's also made people massively resistant to safety measures as we all know we can't keep living like this indefinitely. Saying that while we have no guarantees, there is every reason to hope we will have a vaccine programme underway within a year of recognising the outbreak here. So lets keep working to save lives until then, would have resulted in a bigger buy in to lockdown measure and restrictions, while also making people less fearful of a supposedly rushed vaccine.

Well, China and Russia can do things and take shortcuts no regulatory authority anywhere else would allow, even if they are following a recognised path. It's not governments who've been stoking the years argument, it's the so-called experts themselves who we've come to rely on in this. No guarantees is a sensible approach and that it will take quite some time just as much. It's far more dishonest to go into countdown mode like Trump with a claim that cannot be supported at this point. Vaccines will come if and when they are ready.

Hmmzis

iguana wrote: »

Mass vaccination of key workers and the military started in China in early July. I don't think they have said with which vaccine yet but vaccination is underway there. Telling people that this could go on for years or that we may never have a vaccine was also dishonest and treating people as simpletons. And it's also made people massively resistant to safety measures as we all know we can't keep living like this indefinitely. Saying that while we have no guarantees, there is every reason to hope we will have a vaccine programme underway within a year of recognising the outbreak here. So lets keep working to save lives until then, would have resulted in a bigger buy in to lockdown measure and restrictions, while also making people less fearful of a supposedly rushed vaccine.

CanSino's Ad5 vectored vaccine is being given to the military and the Sinovac's inactivated whole virus is the one with the EUA for at risk groups. The data for both has been linked in this thread as well.

I don't think any of those two will ever make it out of China as their production capacity is simply not enough to do so. That's even before any approvals outside of China could be considered.

iguana

is_that_so wrote: »

No guarantees is a sensible approach and that it will take quite some time just as much. It's far more dishonest to go into countdown mode like Trump with a claim that cannot be supported at this point.

It's not an either/or option. Governments don't have to tell people to prepare that this is for the absolute foreseeable or prepare heavily for a vaccine within a particular near timeframe. They can actually be 100% honest and say "no guarantees, however we can be realistically hopeful about a likely timeframe." If you actually watch the WHO Friday press briefings that's exactly what they are saying. Instead we are given a narrative that this could go on for years and years. So when we get a vaccine in the near future a very significant portion of the population are genuinely scared that it was rushed, when it wasn't. But if enough people don't actually take the vaccine when it comes, it won't work as well as it should.

The only 'silver-lining' in this is that in all likelihood the situation here is likely to get really, really bad again in the next few months. And after the truly shįtty winter we're probably about to experience, more people will take the vaccine in order to avoid it happening again.

iguana

Hmmzis wrote: »

CanSino's Ad5 vectored vaccine is being given to the military and the Sinovac's inactivated whole virus is the one with the EUA for at risk groups. The data for both has been linked in this thread as well.

Thanks, I completely missed that. I had Cansino in my head as what they were using on the military because of it being more effective in under 55s. As I'm assuming the majority of the military will be younger than that. But I hadn't read that it was confirmed.

mandrake04

is_that_so wrote: »

That just says they have agreed an order. It's good planning but depends on an effective vaccine.

Securing as they are going manufacture UQ-CSL V451 vaccine at CSL plant in Melbourne and ADZ1222 AZ plant in North Ryde, it’s going locally first then probably NZ and PI.

Gael23

Have read a figure of 2 billion Oxford vaccines to be available by next summer if all goes well with trials.
Does that figure make sense?

is_that_so

Gael23 wrote: »

Have read a figure of 2 billion Oxford vaccines to be available by next summer if all goes well with trials.
Does that figure make sense?

A lot of ramping up going on to be able to produce that so not a crazy number.

ixoy

iguana wrote: »

I do think that governments made an absolutely massive mistake stressing that a vaccine could be years and years away.

It doesn't help when we repeatedly hear that the previous fastest research-to-market for a vaccine was four years and so suddenly doing a turnaround in about a year puts people on edge.
Now hopefully, with a suitable candidate, they'll be able to clearly explain why it isn't actually rushed and the level of testing they've done versus previous vaccines.

tobefrank321

JTMan wrote: »

Australia aim to start vaccinating people in January 2021. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-54052430

Two advanced purchases from Oxford University/AstraZeneca, while the other is a local one from the University of Queensland and CSL.

Aiming for 95% of people been vaccinated. Good luck with that!

Anti Vaxxers, most of whom tend to be youngish and healthy will accept no vaccine regardless. Unless the vaccine will save their lives, they are unlikely to take it. Anti vaxxers appear to be a growing minority and could make up 10% of the population.

After that it could be a challenge to get most pro vaccine parents on board to vaccinate their children, as covid is only likely to seriously impact a small number of vulnerable children. The hope is vulnerable children can be vaccinated.

Even getting most health care workers vaccinated could be a challenge. You'd want at least 95% of healthcare workers vaccinated as they deal directly with the most vulnerable.

Its going to be a big challenge to get herd immunity from vaccination and there will have to be a carrot and stick approach taken - eg airlines refusing flights to those not vaccinated etc. Possibly creches taking that approach too. What business wants to shutdown because their staff or customers won't vaccinate.

Its going to be very interesting when the vaccine becomes available who will take it. And without a majority taking it we could be stuck with covid 19 in its current form for years, until a combination of vaccine and infected immunity kicks in.

[Deleted User]

I think people are vastly overestimating the size of the anti-vaccine population. Gotta keep in mind too that governments will have massive media pushes in advance of administering the vaccine. Plenty of people persuaded into anti-vaccine thoughts via facebook etc. will easily sway back when all of their media shoves pro-vaccine down their throats.

JDD

Possibly creches taking that approach too.

Private creches (which are the vast majority in this country) already do this. You can't send your child to creche without submitting the little yellow vaccine passport with all vaccinations up to date. At least that's been the case in the three different creches in Dublin that my children have attended.

tobefrank321

JDD wrote: »

Private creches (which are the vast majority in this country) already do this. You can't send your child to creche without submitting the little yellow vaccine passport with all vaccinations up to date. At least that's been the case in the three different creches in Dublin that my children have attended.

Yep, its going to be interesting when the vaccine does come. The covid vaccine will probably be added to the passport.

Gael23

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Anti Vaxxers, most of whom tend to be youngish and healthy will accept no vaccine regardless. Unless the vaccine will save their lives, they are unlikely to take it. Anti vaxxers appear to be a growing minority and could make up 10% of the population.

After that it could be a challenge to get most pro vaccine parents on board to vaccinate their children, as covid is only likely to seriously impact a small number of vulnerable children. The hope is vulnerable children can be vaccinated.

Even getting most health care workers vaccinated could be a challenge. You'd want at least 95% of healthcare workers vaccinated as they deal directly with the most vulnerable.

Its going to be a big challenge to get herd immunity from vaccination and there will have to be a carrot and stick approach taken - eg airlines refusing flights to those not vaccinated etc. Possibly creches taking that approach too. What business wants to shutdown because their staff or customers won't vaccinate.

Its going to be very interesting when the vaccine becomes available who will take it. And without a majority taking it we could be stuck with covid 19 in its current form for years, until a combination of vaccine and infected immunity kicks in.

The tactic around that is they are vaccinating children to protect grandparents etc and nit themselves and their kids as such

4068ac1elhodqr

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Yep, its going to be interesting when the vaccine does come. The covid vaccine will probably be added to the passport.

That assumes it will (only) be required (immunity cert) for int'l travel.

Whereas some states could push it as a pre-qualification for access to a whole multitude of products, locations and services. And without the fuss of carrying around a paper based booket.

A smartphone won't suffice neither, far too many variables: low battery, dumb phone preffered, device forgot, system failure, stolen, dropped in water etc.

Instead one of the best of class (digital) solutions to immunity certs, may come in the way of a tattoo (quantum dot tattoo WO2019018301A1) delivered at the same time {combination delivery} as the vaccine, or after, if missed during an early P3/4 rollout.

Essentially it's a scanable tattoo (like a QR code) that confirms who, which, when and what type of vaccine you have. Could likely also contain more detailed medical history, and would also be logical to contain a simple static UnID (12 digit number to confirm your identity).

snotboogie

iguana wrote: »

I do think that governments made an absolutely massive mistake stressing that a vaccine could be years and years away. Obviously they couldn't make policy back in February/March around a non-existent vaccine and needed to make plans without relying on future technology. But being more open and stating that we had to plan for no vaccine while being realistically hopeful for one in the near future wouldn't have resulted in so many, many people assuming that any vaccine that's released in late 2020/early 2021 is an unsafely 'rushed' vaccine.

Couldn't agree more. Bizarre communication from the government in terms of forward planning throughout this virus. "New normal" is such a weird, terrifying and thankfully incorrect slogan to be throwing around by people with such responsibility. Why haven't they said that we will know a lot more about a vaccine (and improved testing and therapeutics) by the end of the year and from there we will have to plan on how to go forward?

hmmm

https://www.france24.com/en/20200907-china-shows-off-covid-19-vaccines-for-first-time

Doesn't tell us all that much, but some things caught my attention.
$146 for a 2-dose regime? That's expensive.
Sinopharm expects antibodies to last 1 to 3 years. (but antibodies are not the be-all and end-all)
Sinovac can produce 300 million doses a year. To me that sounds about a billion doses short of what they need.

hmmm

Pfizer have already enrolled 25,000 people in their phase 3 trial
https://investors.biontech.de/news-releases/news-release-details/biontech-and-pfizer-receive-regulatory-approval-paul-ehrlich

"Pfizer and BioNTech are on track to seek regulatory review for BNT162b2 as early as October 2020 and, if regulatory authorization or approval is obtained, currently plan to supply up to 100 million doses worldwide by the end of 2020 and approximately 1.3 billion doses by the end of 2021."

alentejo

Am really depressed at the rise in numbers. We are in a second wave. Over 13000 referred for testing today according to the HSE. We will see 300+ reported during this week.

Sorry to be so negative, but this damn virus seems to have the better of us. A grim winter awaits

I wish government would be more positive

Professor Moriarty

alentejo wrote: »

Am really depressed at the rise in numbers. We are in a second wave. Over 13000 referred for testing today according to the HSE. We will see 300+ reported during this week.

Sorry to be so negative, but this damn virus seems to have the better of us. A grim winter awaits

I wish government would be more positive

That's a rather oxymoronic post.