What will history say about the world's reaction to Covid19?

Hawthorn Tree · 05-09-2020 7:41pm #1

I wonder will history show that it was an overreaction or whether the world did not do enough when it had the chance to contain it.

Jim_Hodge · 05-09-2020 7:54pm

Far too early to say how the story will eventually pan out or how it will compare in the history of pandemics.

The_Brood · 05-09-2020 7:55pm

No one can legitimately defend this. Only those who are rich or comfortable enough will be ok through this. And of course it's the rich who write the history textbooks so they will frame this as a "necessary sacrifice."

NIMAN · 05-09-2020 7:56pm

Will definitely be interesting when we look back on this in a decade or two.

It might not have killed a lot of people compared to other viruses or diseases, but it certainly stopped the world functioning like no other.

TomSweeney · 05-09-2020 10:06pm

We are still only at the beginning of this OP.

Only the beginning.

Still a long long long long way to go.

The vaccine is about 12/18 months away (check back in a year and it will still be 12/18 months away)

The whole thing has been a total overreaction, in Sydney Australia the police are going around like little SS brownshirt thugs and there was 6 new cases there today.

An utter disgrace.

Risteard81 · 06-09-2020 9:48pm

History will show that it was a criminal overreaction to this, and in fact was treasonous and sought to usurp any lawful authority of any government. Leaders will swing for this in the future - including those in this country. Most of the so-called laws passed in response to this have in fact been unlawful.

Lockdown was criminal.

Mandatory masks is criminal.

Closing businesses was criminal.

Stay at home orders were criminal.

It is all criminal. Utterly criminal and reprehensible.

Scuid Mhór · 06-09-2020 10:02pm

If governmental restrictions are pointed to as an overreaction based on case numbers and fatalities, that will probably mean they worked as they were supposed to.

bobbyy gee · 06-09-2020 10:06pm

The rich countries are doing ok the poor not so much .,..
deaths listed
https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

milehip · 06-09-2020 10:08pm

Depends on which history you're reading, in the west we'll be blaming China, they in turn will be blaming the west.

Wallander · 07-09-2020 10:36am

What worries me is I think societies are developing an obsession for the moment as we get avalanched with news on social media etc. Brexit was everywhere and everything for a few years and then Covid became everything and everywhere. Both historically important things, but gearing everything to Covid and infection rates to the point it seemingly becomes an international competition to have the smallest second wave is too much.

I saw a parallel in the Netflix documentary on Cuba. In 1969 the Cuban government targeted getting a world record sugar cane harvest of 10 million tonnes. It was meant to show national might and advance them economically but their propaganda machine went out of control and suddenly everything and everyone in the country was geared towards this target. All the schools and offices closed so every able man and child could go out and help with the harvest. In the end they got to 9 million tonnes and collapsed their economy by neglecting everything non-sugar related.

froog · 07-09-2020 11:21am

Whether the world overreacted or not is a secondary point imo. Id rather have overeacted than undereacted.

The real story from this is the massive division across the world from populist governments in particular in response to a global emergency. And people in general losing their minds and feeding into all kinds of chaos like BLM and right wing clashes in the US. Division over even the simplest thing like a mask to catch some of your spit.

God help us if an actual potential world ender happens (asteroid, more dangerous pandemic) cause we will be truly ****ed. Not to mention global warming which we have unable to deal with even after 30 odd years.

froog · 07-09-2020 11:26am

Risteard81 wrote: »

History will show that it was a criminal overreaction to this, and in fact was treasonous and sought to usurp any lawful authority of any government. Leaders will swing for this in the future - including those in this country. Most of the so-called laws passed in response to this have in fact been unlawful.

Lockdown was criminal.

Mandatory masks is criminal.

Closing businesses was criminal.

Stay at home orders were criminal.

It is all criminal. Utterly criminal and reprehensible.

No doubt if we did nothing and had scenes like italy you would also call that criminal.

Some people are just permanently outraged.

Hawthorn Tree · 07-09-2020 11:27am

Our health system was a chaotic shambles before Covid. Will the debt and lengthening waiting lists make it worse again when the pandemic ends?

07-09-2020 11:31am

Initial over reaction was fine and understandable. Although perhaps we might question the experts and models that presented such doomsday scenario's...

To still be living as we are 6 months later, with all the data available... Unforgivable over reaction.

07-09-2020 11:32am

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

Our health system was a chaotic shambles before Covid. Will the debt and lengthening waiting lists make it worse again when the pandemic ends?

Most likely.
Funding will be cut if anything.

froog · 07-09-2020 11:32am

I also wonder where all these outraged people were when we first locked down, cause as i recall the lockdown was widely supported by the public.

The point being its fine being a bunch of captain hindsights now, but when we knew f all about this thing other than the horrific scenes in china and italy, everyone agreed the lockdown was the right (and only) thing we could do.

nthclare · 07-09-2020 11:35am

Well the fact that people were undermined and not trusted to behave themselves and adhere to the suggestions is a big factor.

The fact they looked down three counties and didn't even press charges on the management of meat factories etc for poor health and safety awareness is beyond me.

So three counties had to be locked down and businesses ruined over meat factories and a few cluster's, doesn't make any sense.

There's a lot of lies and gombeenism going on that's for sure.

Risteard81 · 07-09-2020 11:41am

froog wrote: »

I also wonder where all these outraged people were when we first locked down, cause as i recall the lockdown was widely supported by the public.

The point being its fine being a bunch of captain hindsights now, but when we knew f all about this thing other than the horrific scenes in china and italy, everyone agreed the lockdown was the right (and only) thing we could do.

I referred to it as totalitarian throughout. I never supported it.

froog · 07-09-2020 11:45am

Risteard81 wrote: »

I referred to it as totalitarian throughout. I never supported it.

The vast majority did. There will alway be a few headbangers.

drunkmonkey · 07-09-2020 11:54am

froog wrote: »

I also wonder where all these outraged people were when we first locked down, cause as i recall the lockdown was widely supported by the public.

There was something definitely wrong with the modelling predicting the amounts of deaths here in the headlines on the road to lockdown..

The 1% blunder: How a simple but fatal math mistake by US Covid-19 experts caused the world to panic and order lockdowns
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/500000-covid19-math-mistake-panic/

It was supported as we were expecting bodies piled up on the streets, tens of thousands dead which turned out to be completely incorrect.
Few of our current restrictions are based on real world science most notably the most controversial. Lab based studies aren't applicable in the real world.

froog · 07-09-2020 11:58am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There was something definitely wrong with the modelling predicting the amounts of deaths here in the headlines on the road to lockdown..

The 1% blunder: How a simple but fatal math mistake by US Covid-19 experts caused the world to panic and order lockdowns
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/500000-covid19-math-mistake-panic/

It was supported as we were expecting bodies piled up on the streets, tens of thousands dead which turned out to be completely incorrect.
Few of our current restrictions are based on real world science most notably the most controversial. Lab based studies aren't applicable in the real world.

Once again, the phrase captain hindsight springs to mind.

drunkmonkey · 07-09-2020 12:06pm

froog wrote: »

Once again, the phrase captain hindsight springs to mind.

Were still coming out with non evidence based rules limiting our freedom, it's nothing to do with hindsight it's about fact checking which our media is in incapable of doing.
Yesterdays draft rules requiring smokers to sit down when smoking was another head scratcher, how will history look back on that if we accept it without question like we have all the other rules.

nthclare · 07-09-2020 12:07pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There was something definitely wrong with the modelling predicting the amounts of deaths here in the headlines on the road to lockdown..

The 1% blunder: How a simple but fatal math mistake by US Covid-19 experts caused the world to panic and order lockdowns
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/500000-covid19-math-mistake-panic/

It was supported as we were expecting bodies piled up on the streets, tens of thousands dead which turned out to be completely incorrect.
Few of our current restrictions are based on real world science most notably the most controversial. Lab based studies aren't applicable in the real world.

It sounds like someone was drunk at the wheel.
And of course the world has to pick up the pieces again, and the rich will prosper once again.

I think that there has to be a reset button, the whole way the world's been run by elitism and billionaires is an illusion to be honest.
It's all about what people are worth on paper and this pandemic has proven so.

It's just the same old people who are successful and get to look down and pontificate to the rest of the people.

Sheer greed and it's time now something positive comes out of this.
I'm not interested in prestige or having the best of everything, I do the best I can with what's in front of me.

Time for a big change and start to bring the wealthy people down to earth and tax the bejayzus out of them because they don't need all that money tbh

Wishful thinking I suppose

froog · 07-09-2020 12:12pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Were still coming out with non evidence based rules limiting our freedom, it's nothing to do with hindsight it's about fact checking which our media is in incapable of doing.
Yesterdays draft rules requiring smokers to sit down when smoking was another head scratcher, how will history look back on that if we accept it without question like we have all the other rules.

I'm mainly talking of the initial lockdown. I think recent decisions have been poorly thought out.

drunkmonkey · 07-09-2020 12:14pm

froog wrote: »

I'm mainly talking of the initial lockdown. I think recent decisions have been poorly thought out.

Yea Leo and Harris were asleep at the wheel, we could have avoided the huge death spike everything would have been a lot calmer then. Now we're on the edge or crisis's on all fronts of society and healthcare.

MrStuffins · 07-09-2020 12:15pm

TomSweeney wrote: »

We are still only at the beginning of this OP.

Only the beginning.

Still a long long long long way to go.

The vaccine is about 12/18 months away (check back in a year and it will still be 12/18 months away)

The whole thing has been a total overreaction, in Sydney Australia the police are going around like little SS brownshirt thugs and there was 6 new cases there today.

An utter disgrace.

Popped into this thread to see how long it would take someone to mention Nazis.

Was not disappointed!

TonyMaloney · 07-09-2020 12:15pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

There was something definitely wrong with the modelling predicting the amounts of deaths here in the headlines on the road to lockdown..

The 1% blunder: How a simple but fatal math mistake by US Covid-19 experts caused the world to panic and order lockdowns
https://www.rt.com/op-ed/500000-covid19-math-mistake-panic/

It was supported as we were expecting bodies piled up on the streets, tens of thousands dead which turned out to be completely incorrect.
Few of our current restrictions are based on real world science most notably the most controversial. Lab based studies aren't applicable in the real world.

RT is a russian state controlled propaganda tool.

Its purpose is to pump out lies about the west.

MrStuffins · 07-09-2020 12:17pm

TonyMaloney wrote: »

propaganda tool.

There's more than a few of those on these boards. Some in this very thread!

drunkmonkey · 07-09-2020 12:32pm

TonyMaloney wrote: »

RT is a russian state controlled propaganda tool.

Its purpose is to pump out lies about the west.

So the practicing UK Doctor is now a Russian asset, right got ya. Keep on the mask..

nthclare · 07-09-2020 12:45pm

TonyMaloney wrote: »

RT is a russian state controlled propaganda tool.

Its purpose is to pump out lies about the west.

The west are pumping out their own lies lol

TonyMaloney · 07-09-2020 12:55pm

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So the practicing UK Doctor is now a Russian asset, right got ya. Keep on the mask..

yes, that's exactly what he is if he's writing articles for Russia Today

drunkmonkey · 07-09-2020 1:14pm

TonyMaloney wrote: »

yes, that's exactly what he is if he's writing articles for Russia Today

Does it not strike you as odd were not using evidence to base our laws on.
A business can be shut down for someone standing up instead of sitting down. You really believe laws like that will reduce cases by any meaningful way. I'd love to see the real world science that was based on, yet you accept, propaganda works.

07-09-2020 1:21pm

I don't know about history but I will remember it with anger, as we lost our mum (not because she contracted covid) but because the stress of it while recovering in a convalescence ward and been without contact from her family for months destroyed her emotionally I think.

This led to a massive stroke, and her last few days was her looking at us in masks and her struggling to say something to us which we couldn't understand, and that will haunt me for the rest of my days.

Thats my memory of it, what was mam trying to tell us.

I hope the government and governments learn from this and never go to the lengths of restrictions that we previously endured.

drunkmonkey · 07-09-2020 1:29pm

Criminal Jack, absolutely horrible what they put people through. Heart goes out to you, it'll get easier but will take time. That rage isn't going to subside in a hurry and I don't blame you.
If your going through hell keep going, only advice I can give, been there done that.

weldoninhio · 07-09-2020 1:34pm

froog wrote: »

I also wonder where all these outraged people were when we first locked down, cause as i recall the lockdown was widely supported by the public.

The point being its fine being a bunch of captain hindsights now, but when we knew f all about this thing other than the horrific scenes in china and italy, everyone agreed the lockdown was the right (and only) thing we could do.

The first lockdown was done with the explanation of “flatten the curve”. The curve flattened out months ago, we are still being nanny-stated. The rest of Europe is getting back to business and we’re still faffing about, talking about new lockdowns etc.

MadYaker · 07-09-2020 1:43pm

People will always have opinions but objectively speaking this pandemic was curbed and suppressed to a greater extent than any in history. It’ll be hard to compare to other pandemics as they only seem to happen once a century so there isn’t loads of data.

circadian · 07-09-2020 2:21pm

I wonder if we will continue down the path of idiocracy and any valuable lessons or knowledge of this time will be lost.

Hopefully not, and it will be remembered as a time of great hardship, and remembered with such a volume of information that future pandemics can be handled more effectively.

This time could be remembered for the significant number of dumbasses believing anything they find on Facebook or YouTube and not realising that the algorithms will continue to cater to what it thinks they want.

growleaves · 07-09-2020 2:22pm

Wallander wrote: »

What worries me is I think societies are developing an obsession for the moment as we get avalanched with news on social media etc. Brexit was everywhere and everything for a few years and then Covid became everything and everywhere. Both historically important things, but gearing everything to Covid and infection rates to the point it seemingly becomes an international competition to have the smallest second wave is too much.

I saw a parallel in the Netflix documentary on Cuba. In 1969 the Cuban government targeted getting a world record sugar cane harvest of 10 million tonnes. It was meant to show national might and advance them economically but their propaganda machine went out of control and suddenly everything and everyone in the country was geared towards this target. All the schools and offices closed so every able man and child could go out and help with the harvest. In the end they got to 9 million tonnes and collapsed their economy by neglecting everything non-sugar related.

Monomania.

trixi001 · 07-09-2020 2:43pm

History will not look favourably on the worlds reaction to a relatively minor virus.

I can understand governments and people panicking at the start when we looked at the horror stories coming out of China and Italy, and the aim to flatten the curve.

The curve has been flattened so we shouldn't have restrictions now...at least not to the level we do. The world needs to continue - Humans are social by nature, so we need to socialise on the real world again.

As more and more became known about Covid, its not as dangerous as initial predictions suggested, the governments should not be afraid to say they were wrong....lift the restrictions now.

It is crazy that some industries have been closed for 6 months, many never to re-open unfortunately.

There was never joint up thinking about Covid - it became the obsession, deaths from cancer, suicide etc, don't matter anymore.
Food Hygiene doesn't matter anymore - any pub can serve food.
The Economy doesn't matter any more.

There needed to be a proper joint government response, that considered more than just covid - a joint board, that was willing and able to look at everything.

suicide_circus · 08-09-2020 7:02am

Very hard to know. I think large swathes of the population will have PTSD due to the relentless Project Fear being piped into our homes.

Wanderer78 · 08-09-2020 7:07am

suicide_circus wrote:

Very hard to know. I think large swathes of the population will have PTSD due to the relentless Project Fear being piped into our homes.

There's no project fear, our governments are just trying to do their job of protecting us. History will probably look at all our paranoia, and say idiots, it was a bloody pandemic, of course you have to be extremely careful with it

suicide_circus · 08-09-2020 7:19am

When i say project fear, i'm not saying there is no reason to be fearful. I'm saying the relentless nature of it will have long term psychological impact on many.

Alf Veedersane · 08-09-2020 7:22am

nthclare wrote: »

Well the fact that people were undermined and not trusted to behave themselves and adhere to the suggestions is a big factor.

To be fair, there are plenty of people who couldn't be trusted to not adhere to guidance.

Tell me how · 08-09-2020 7:46am

Depends on just when that history is written.

I expect that it will focus as much on the societal reactions there was to it, how some governments showed their apathy for their electorate in adopting strategies which were always likely to result in excessive deaths, how it was Politicised by the holder of the most powerful office in the world who only ended up showing his own ineptitude in dealing with it, how the efficacy of restrictions were undermined with the narrative that that meant the restrictions weren't needed in the first place.

They will probably go on to say that it didn't bode well for asking people to listen to the science in terms of climate action when during the same summer we saw Iowa lost a third of its crops from a hurricane, there were torrential floods, in August, in Clifden, record temperatures worldwide and Canadas last intact ice shelf collapsed while people became epidemiologists and health strategists overnight and suggested to those qualified or working in such roles didn't have a clue what they are on about.

They might even say that this biggest impact of Covid in 2020 was that when a more deadly virus emerged some years later, that the sense amongst many that they had over reacted in 2020 meant that implementing restrictions was much more difficult and ultimately meant that there was a greater impact than there should have been.

But really, who knows.

Oranage2 · 08-09-2020 8:46am

The history books will say corona virus originated in Wuhan, it quickly spread across the world, some countries had a lockdown others had no restrictions. The death waves ended in 2024 after the virus mutated.

More locally it will say that whilst other countries had a lockdown and the people had no social welfare or a source of income, Irish people were paid 350 euro a week and even then they moaned everyday about wearing masks and not being able to go to pubs.

ShineOn7 · 11-09-2020 7:00pm

The history books:

"And looking at Ireland's reaction to Covid, a strong trait of the Irish was also their downfall"

What will history say about the world's reaction to Covid19?

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