How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Grandeeod · 05-09-2020 09:30PM

My local school bus for PP students is sub contracted to a local bus operator. It went tits up after only two days in terms of masks and who sits where. Loads of students not wearing masks on the trip from school and no enforcement of who sits beside who. I have a very sensible 12 year old who understood everything about the guidelines of mask wearing and sitting beside the same person everyday. Now she's confused by all the effort I made with her. But hey, its not happening and I don't blame her. So I've taken matters into my own hands on her behalf. I'm contacting parents to inform them about their little darlings acting the dick with masks and SD. The same people that are apparently terrified. I've also contacted the bus operator with a threat of video footage that would make the Berlin D2 bar look average to at the least encourage them to do something.

These particular kids ran wild all over the place during lockdown and I realised that you would not teach them to abide and be safe once the schools reopened. I'm reasonable enough and happy that my child is back in school, but I'd prefer if she was in an environment that at the very least made an effort with the Gov's guidelines. We can get on with life and live with this, but it must be done with some semblance of responsibility. No excuses for kids will be kids or teens will be teens. Parents need to start parenting.

Bobtheman · 05-09-2020 09:41PM

Will Yam wrote: »

Or 0.175%.

But don’t worry about perspective.

99.8% have no Covid.

Im going to take others advice and block you but before I go I think you should get help. That teacher should never have said those things about you . You ain't stupid. Just insane

rebel girl 15 · 05-09-2020 09:56PM

limnam wrote: »

This one particularity amazes me we're not doing more on this.

From experience, this has been a completely back seat thought right now as schools were and still are all about just being open right now, with all the policies and procedures about reopening. I do agree, it needs to start to come to the fore now.

We have students who only just arrived back from Pakistan who are now self isolating and we've been told to set them work online and record part of our lessons as we are teaching them.

glack · 05-09-2020 10:04PM

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

From experience, this has been a completely back seat thought right now as schools were and still are all about just being open right now, with all the policies and procedures about reopening. I do agree, it needs to start to come to the fore now.

We have students who only just arrived back from Pakistan who are now self isolating and we've been told to set them work online and record part of our lessons as we are teaching them.

Told by whom? This is a silly idea in my opinion. The family decided to not return 2 weeks prior to school opening so that’s on them surely! No way would I record myself teaching in my classroom with other students present (I did lots of this during lockdown from home-this is not the same thing!). Never mind the fact that it surely breaches GDPR -say if one of the students present gets into trouble, asks for help etc and that is then recorded for all to see? This is one I’d take to my union.

mollser · 05-09-2020 10:15PM

irishblessing wrote: »

I just found out there is a FB group called 'Alerting parents of outbreaks in schools.' I've just joined, looks like over 12k people in it so far. Some here might be interested to follow...

What's the point, just social media doing more to stoke hysterics and societal breakdown. 2 businesses close to me shut due to positive tests. Am I bothered? No. I'll keep doing the sensible basics but otherwise carry on.

rebel girl 15 · 05-09-2020 10:20PM

glack wrote: »

Told by whom? This is a silly idea in my opinion. The family decided to not return 2 weeks prior to school opening so that’s on them surely! No way would I record myself teaching in my classroom with other students present (I did lots of this during lockdown from home-this is not the same thing!). Never mind the fact that it surely breaches GDPR -say if one of the students present gets into trouble, asks for help etc and that is then recorded for all to see? This is one I’d take to my union.

Decision made by our group of schools - we'll record our screens using Office365, nothing else, not like having a camera at the back of our room which was the same way we operated during lockdown - neither students nor staff cameras were on when live teaching. Expectation is that we'll provide the same work to those students at home as those in school.

DangerScouse · 05-09-2020 10:25PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

My local school bus for PP students is sub contracted to a local bus operator. It went tits up after only two days in terms of masks and who sits where. Loads of students not wearing masks on the trip from school and no enforcement of who sits beside who. I have a very sensible 12 year old who understood everything about the guidelines of mask wearing and sitting beside the same person everyday. Now she's confused by all the effort I made with her. But hey, its not happening and I don't blame her. So I've taken matters into my own hands on her behalf. I'm contacting parents to inform them about their little darlings acting the dick with masks and SD. The same people that are apparently terrified. I've also contacted the bus operator with a threat of video footage that would make the Berlin D2 bar look average to at the least encourage them to do something.

These particular kids ran wild all over the place during lockdown and I realised that you would not teach them to abide and be safe once the schools reopened. I'm reasonable enough and happy that my child is back in school, but I'd prefer if she was in an environment that at the very least made an effort with the Gov's guidelines. We can get on with life and live with this, but it must be done with some semblance of responsibility. No excuses for kids will be kids or teens will be teens. Parents need to start parenting.

I know of two bus drivers who walked out last week on the school runs they had been assigned to. Said they won't be doing the work until full perspex screens are put in the the buses enclosing them away from the kids like Dublin bus drivers would have. They are going to have huge trouble the next few weeks staffing those school runs.

irishblessing · 06-09-2020 12:16AM

mollser wrote: »

What's the point, just social media doing more to stoke hysterics and societal breakdown. 2 businesses close to me shut due to positive tests. Am I bothered? No. I'll keep doing the sensible basics but otherwise carry on.

The point is to be informed about what is actually happening so we can make decisions that affect our children and family. Obviously.

BonsaiKitten · 06-09-2020 12:33AM

glack wrote: »

Told by whom? This is a silly idea in my opinion. The family decided to not return 2 weeks prior to school opening so that’s on them surely! No way would I record myself teaching in my classroom with other students present (I did lots of this during lockdown from home-this is not the same thing!). Never mind the fact that it surely breaches GDPR -say if one of the students present gets into trouble, asks for help etc and that is then recorded for all to see? This is one I’d take to my union.

I'd take it to the union as well. I've taught my share of students with ODD or ASD. Wasn't unusual for some of them to have a meltdown in class (we had to frequently evacuate the room because of one individual!). Would be very unfair to record that - even if the camera is pointed at the teachers desk it would be quite clear what's going on.

That's without even thinking about those students who just generally struggle academically and shouldn't have their struggles recorded on video for all to see.

If it's a school policy it's very difficult to go against it in fairness but I really think it's wrong.

Queried · 06-09-2020 12:59AM

mollser wrote: »

What's the point, just social media doing more to stoke hysterics and societal breakdown. 2 businesses close to me shut due to positive tests. Am I bothered? No. I'll keep doing the sensible basics but otherwise carry on.

I do understand your perspective in terms of information overload and the unnecessary stress and worry that it can bring. However, I do think it's fair for cases in schools to be reported as it's a matter of public health. I don't think identifying information regarding schools needs to be broadcasted but I do think the number of schools with cases should be shared, similar to when outbreaks occur in other settings where a large number of people are concerned and could be affected.

Also, I will add that I don't think a Facebook group should be the medium for sharing this information but I do think it should be shared by the HSE. You are right that Facebook groups could potentially incite hysteria.

byhookorbycrook · 06-09-2020 08:38AM

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Decision made by our group of schools - we'll record our screens using Office365, nothing else, not like having a camera at the back of our room which was the same way we operated during lockdown - neither students nor staff cameras were on when live teaching. Expectation is that we'll provide the same work to those students at home as those in school.

As an SEN teacher , I certainly wouldn’t like a live class feed being broadcast to others . And as pointed out , if the family decided to make a later return from holiday, they need to take responsibility.

Even children who are high risk aren’t being allocated tuition online by the DES , holiday makers would be low down on the list .

combat14 · 06-09-2020 08:59AM

Queried wrote: »

I do understand your perspective in terms of information overload and the unnecessary stress and worry that it can bring. However, I do think it's fair for cases in schools to be reported as it's a matter of public health. I don't think identifying information regarding schools needs to be broadcasted but I do think the number of schools with cases should be shared, similar to when outbreaks occur in other settings where a large number of people are concerned and could be affected.

Also, I will add that I don't think a Facebook group should be the medium for sharing this information but I do think it should be shared by the HSE. You are right that Facebook groups could potentially incite hysteria.

this information doesnt seem to be provided by HSE at the moment- there are already quite a few schools now with confirmed covid cases and the facebook page is not even listing all schools out there .. people have a right to know what is going on

06-09-2020 09:03AM

mollser wrote: »

What's the point, just social media doing more to stoke hysterics and societal breakdown. 2 businesses close to me shut due to positive tests. Am I bothered? No. I'll keep doing the sensible basics but otherwise carry on.

It is vital to know if there are businesses or schools in your area closed due to cases. I would be totally avoiding everything in an area if there was cases for a number of weeks until it was clear that there is no cluster and no new cases.

Murple · 06-09-2020 09:44AM

rebel girl 15 wrote: »

Decision made by our group of schools - we'll record our screens using Office365, nothing else, not like having a camera at the back of our room which was the same way we operated during lockdown - neither students nor staff cameras were on when live teaching. Expectation is that we'll provide the same work to those students at home as those in school.

It’s setting a bit of a dangerous precedent though as when Covid is all over, some people will expect the same measures to be taken for all kinds of reasons. When a parent decides to take a child out for an extended holiday, they will look for work to be set online or to be linked into classes by a video link. If schools close due to snow, storm damage, no heating or water, even for a few days, online teaching will be expected. If a child is finding attending school difficult, online teaching will be suggested.
The only pupils that should be supported are those that can’t come back due to serious medical reasons, not those who are in any way not back by choice, whether that choice is to just stay at home or that choice was to travel and not be back in order to quarantine.

heldel00 · 06-09-2020 11:31AM

^^^ definitely. We are making a rod for our own back. I have a parent who has decided not to send child back until there is a vaccine. I've really tried but no convincing her. She rang on Friday to see when would i be starting the online tutoring!

irishblessing · 06-09-2020 11:47AM

heldel00 wrote: »

^^^ definitely. We are making a rod for our own back. I have a parent who has decided not to send child back until there is a vaccine. I've really tried but no convincing her. She rang on Friday to see when would i be starting the online tutoring!

I notice your shock and reading the ridicule between the lines but you know what- her decision and instinct to protect her child is normal and in many other countries provisions were made to support children and teachers who need to be/choose to be home during a global pandemic. We need to normalise an intelligent, innovative and thoughtful approach to education as other countries have done and ask ourselves why we the Irish people especially the vulnerable, weren't given the same protection.

limnam · 06-09-2020 12:07PM

heldel00 wrote: »

^^^ definitely. We are making a rod for our own back. I have a parent who has decided not to send child back until there is a vaccine. I've really tried but no convincing her. She rang on Friday to see when would i be starting the online tutoring!

A parent living in the "IT hub of Europe" expecting an online options for schooling during a pandemic.

She's nuts. :rolleyes:

heldel00 · 06-09-2020 12:18PM

The child does not fall into the 'very high risk' category. He attended local summer camps throughout the summer.
Support has been put in place for very high risk children, rightly so, but it does make a bit of a mockery to the likes of children with CF who have returned to school.

DangerScouse · 06-09-2020 12:21PM

heldel00 wrote: »

^^^ definitely. We are making a rod for our own back. I have a parent who has decided not to send child back until there is a vaccine. I've really tried but no convincing her. She rang on Friday to see when would i be starting the online tutoring!

You have to respect that parents decision. Take it from someone who's had a bad time with this virus, it's no joke.

06-09-2020 12:23PM

heldel00 wrote: »

The child does not fall into the 'very high risk' category. He attended local summer camps throughout the summer.
Support has been put in place for very high risk children, rightly so, but it does make a bit of a mockery to the likes of children with CF who have returned to school.

No parent should be forced to make their child return to school in the middle of a pandemic. Even if the child is not at risk there could be people at home or family members at risk.

If the schools stayed shut as they should have none of this would be an issue.

BonsaiKitten · 06-09-2020 12:25PM

DangerScouse wrote: »

You have to respect that parents decision. Take it from someone who's had a bad time with this virus, it's no joke.

There's a difference between respecting their decision and taking on hours of additional workload to accommodate that decision though. I fully support her right to homeschool during the pandemic but she can't expect the school to do the legwork.

solerina · 06-09-2020 12:29PM

heldel00 wrote: »

^^^ definitely. We are making a rod for our own back. I have a parent who has decided not to send child back until there is a vaccine. I've really tried but no convincing her. She rang on Friday to see when would i be starting the online tutoring!

Is she serious ? It’s her decision to keep the child out of school, now it’s her that has to teach the child....not your problem, teachers have more than enough on their plate ta the moment teaching the students in front of them while keeping themselves and their students as safe as possible.

irishblessing · 06-09-2020 12:34PM

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

There's a difference between respecting their decision and taking on hours of additional workload to accommodate that decision though. I fully support her right to homeschool during the pandemic but she can't expect the school to do the legwork.

The parents, and the school should expect the support and funding from the government though. The sector has been under funded and undercut decades in the making as it is. She/we have every right to expect better in the times that's in it. Other countries have, wtf is our excuse. Pure laziness and ineptitude.

BonsaiKitten · 06-09-2020 12:38PM

irishblessing wrote: »

The parents, and the school should expect the support and funding from the government though. The sector has been under funded and undercut decades in the making as it is. She/we have every right to expect better in the times that's in it. Other countries have, wtf is our excuse. Pure laziness and ineptitude.

Oh I am with you on that one! Been saying for weeks now that if the government had wanted to, they could have set up an online schooling programme. It's ridiculous that high risk students and teachers (not to mention those with very ill family at home) are expected back.

However, that hasn't happened and the onus should not be put on an individual class teacher to provide home tutoring for a parent who is choosing to keep their child at home. It's not a reasonable expectation when the teacher is working full-time with their class.

heldel00 · 06-09-2020 12:41PM

There are no high risk family members (would you seriously attend every summer camp going if there was?) and absenteeism would be an issue with this family in the past. They are using the current situation to suit themselves.
There are provisions in place where the Special Ed teacher in a school will provide additional support to those medically unable to return to school, not those who can't get up on time.

Also, there was no online engagement from this family during lockdown. Now they are looking for individual tutoring for their child.
Come off it.

khalessi · 06-09-2020 12:48PM

heldel00 wrote: »

There are no high risk family members (would you seriously attend every summer camp going if there was?) and absenteeism would be an issue with this family in the past. They are using the current situation to suit themselves.
There are provisions in place where the Special Ed teacher in a school will provide additional support to those medically unable to return to school, not those who can't get up on time.

Also, there was no online engagement from this family during lockdown. Now they are looking for individual tutoring for their child.
Come off it.

I love that it is up to the SET so they will have them double jobbing

heldel00 · 06-09-2020 12:58PM

khalessi wrote: »

I love that it is up to the SET so they will have them double jobbing

Would surely make better sense to have very high risk teachers, who have been unable to return to work, teaching online but you and I both know that the Dept of Ed are not known for their forward thinking.
There had been talk of it but same as everything else nothing came of it

irishblessing · 06-09-2020 01:37PM

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Oh I am with you on that one! Been saying for weeks now that if the government had wanted to, they could have set up an online schooling programme. It's ridiculous that high risk students and teachers (not to mention those with very ill family at home) are expected back.

However, that hasn't happened and the onus should not be put on an individual class teacher to provide home tutoring for a parent who is choosing to keep their child at home. It's not a reasonable expectation when the teacher is working full-time with their class.

I know what you mean and I'm pretty much with you too! Having been on this thread all the way through (or at least reading back to beginning when I found it) there has been a call or a focus on the onus being on parents to speak up and make their wishes known. There's a level of begrudgery towards teachers speaking up (which is a shame and isn't right) and so it was said parents should be the ones to voice their concerns and look for the better solutions which the govt do not have on offer. So when that is being done, instead of ridiculing the parents, maybe just empathise and pass along the concerns up the chain of responsibility. If parents were supported to voice their wishes and concerns and enough of us did so, then maybe things will change. I have voiced mine to the principal in regards to a plan b, I know other local parents have as well, and I can only hope those concerns and our voices are escalated. We have eyes and ears, we can see what other countries are doing and where our own leaders are failing.

glack · 06-09-2020 01:46PM

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Oh I am with you on that one! Been saying for weeks now that if the government had wanted to, they could have set up an online schooling programme. It's ridiculous that high risk students and teachers (not to mention those with very ill family at home) are expected back.

However, that hasn't happened and the onus should not be put on an individual class teacher to provide home tutoring for a parent who is choosing to keep their child at home. It's not a reasonable expectation when the teacher is working full-time with their class.

This 100%! They took one look at the numbers of teachers in the high risk category and said nope, can’t be done. Apparently as many as 25% of teachers are high risk and schools simply couldn’t open without them. I think this is a cop out. So many families are reluctant to sent their high risk pupils - provide them with a safe, properly run (not the haphazard effort that we saw in recent months where many schools did great work and many also did very little!) online option and many would opt for that. Staff it with high risk teachers and everyone benefits.

irishblessing · 06-09-2020 01:46PM

heldel00 wrote: »

There are no high risk family members (would you seriously attend every summer camp going if there was?) and absenteeism would be an issue with this family in the past. They are using the current situation to suit themselves.
There are provisions in place where the Special Ed teacher in a school will provide additional support to those medically unable to return to school, not those who can't get up on time.

Also, there was no online engagement from this family during lockdown. Now they are looking for individual tutoring for their child.
Come off it.

Well, she's not wrong though. In the greater context of this country and the situation we're in, her personal decisions and actions aside which I can understand colour your opinion, her question is valid and echo'd by parents all over the country- and there should be a better solution and choice in place. This one parents personal failings doesn't change facts that there should be a remote learning plan in place which covers 1. vulnerable students and family 2. gives parents choice over their family's health in a global pandemic 3. would reduce class sizes which is badly needed 4. promotes continued learning in event of student or teacher illness/ need to quarantine.
For example I have cousins in the US and in one state the school year has started fully online for the first term. The other has a blended learning option which they can choose to go all in, all at home, or part time in school/home. This has given parents great choices and autonomy over their needs and also reduces class sizes in school massively. Funding was put towards chrome books and wifi hotspots loaned out where needed. Win win. I'll say it again wtf is our problem with a lack of innovation.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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