How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

downthemiddle · 04-09-2020 11:37PM

Voltairey wrote: »

I was told I was not permitted to wear one (primary level). We were given visors, but I didn't feel safe with just the visor so I wore a mask as well. My principal took me aside and reprimanded me on Tuesday for it, said he wanted to say it sooner but he was too busy and I shouldn't have gone against the rules because "everyone will be doing it". I explained my medical situation and showed him a note from my doctor advising a surgical grade mask. He said it was unacceptable that I was causing so much hassle at such a difficult time for the school.

I left school at 4 and was signed off by Medmark by 5 once I'd sent in the docs they asked for. The principal replied to my email with the forms saying "Ok, I'll be in touch".

Although I've spoken with the sub, because I know him personally and wanted to fill him in about the class, I've had no contact from the principal since the curt reply.

It's a strange situation and I'm pretty devestated to say that I'm looking for jobs outside of teaching at the moment because clearly it's not something I'm going to be able to do anymore. I absolutely loved my job, I'm totally heartbroken to have to leave it. This virus is so ****.

So is your principal.

downthemiddle · 04-09-2020 11:38PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

What are you on about? Why would I be a conspiracy theorist when making clear, valid points as to how this might affect young children. How can there be an evidence based study when young children in other countries bar China are NOT wearing masks...
Perhaps ask anyone in the Education system, particularly Primary and get back to me.

So it is your own personal hypothesis?

meeeeh · 04-09-2020 11:39PM

khalessi wrote: »

Lovely.

So you wont stand over it?

It is correct grammatically and medically, to say the visor is unsafe, if it is the only item a person is using to protect them from an airborn virus.

Btw I said in my previous post I'm not arguing the actual use of visors. I was just pointing out parachute comparison was nonsense because you were comparing defective item with perfectly functional item. I never debated merits of different forms of PPE.

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:43PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Btw I said in my previous post I'm not arguing the actual use of visors. I was just pointing out parachute comparison was nonsense because you were comparing defective item with perfectly functional item. I never debated merits of different forms of PPE.

The visor is optics, if it is not being worn with a mask it is unsafe and an ineffective method to protect someone from an airborn virus. That is why a mask should be worn with it as it is not doing the job people expect it to do. It is being handed out in schools as the only PPE which is incorrect, ineffective and unsafe, but sure that is just the nurse side of me talking.

meeeeh · 04-09-2020 11:47PM

khalessi wrote: »

The visor is optics, if it is not being worn with a mask it is unsafe and an ineffective method to protect someone from an airborn virus. That is why a mask should be worn with it as it is not doing the job people expect it to do. It is being handed out in schools as the only PPE which is incorrect, ineffective and unsafe, but sure that is just the nurse side of me talking.

And I'm not arguing that although as far as I know the way most of us wear masks they aren't much of a protection of us either. They are protection of others.

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:48PM

meeeeh wrote: »

And I'm not arguing that although as far as I know the way most of us wear masks they aren't much of a protection of us either. They are protection of others.

If that is true and I have seen it publicised as you say, I do wonder why for years nurses wore masks, me included on wards and not the patients.

caveat emptor · 04-09-2020 11:49PM

Voltairey wrote: »

I was told I was not permitted to wear one (primary level). We were given visors, but I didn't feel safe with just the visor so I wore a mask as well. My principal took me aside and reprimanded me on Tuesday for it, said he wanted to say it sooner but he was too busy and I shouldn't have gone against the rules because "everyone will be doing it". I explained my medical situation and showed him a note from my doctor advising a surgical grade mask. He said it was unacceptable that I was causing so much hassle at such a difficult time for the school.

I left school at 4 and was signed off by Medmark by 5 once I'd sent in the docs they asked for. The principal replied to my email with the forms saying "Ok, I'll be in touch".

Although I've spoken with the sub, because I know him personally and wanted to fill him in about the class, I've had no contact from the principal since the curt reply.

It's a strange situation and I'm pretty devestated to say that I'm looking for jobs outside of teaching at the moment because clearly it's not something I'm going to be able to do anymore. I absolutely loved my job, I'm totally heartbroken to have to leave it. This virus is so ****.

That's what happens when people don't understand biosafety level 4 pathogens.
In all fairness how is a principal supposed to know what is adequate protection.
He/she is clearly in the camp of get back to normal at all costs. Someone mentioned using a mic to amplify the voice. A surgical mask on really protects you from giving it to them. It doesn't really help the other way around. You need an N95 or N99 for that. All windows open will probably reduce most risk.

Again the risk is low on one day. But you've to go in day in day out.

CruelSummer · 04-09-2020 11:54PM

khalessi wrote: »

You still did not answer the questions asked.

Btw as a teacher I am psml at this post oh and I am a registered nurse who has worked with children too and also have 2 other qualifications.

So what are your qualifications in relation to working with children and masks?

So you’re profession is nursing. I wouldn’t suggest measures to hospitals & nurses re mask wearing in medical settings, etc., as it’s not my area of expertise. I’m not trained professionally as a nurse.
I’m not going to give my specific qualifications only to say I’m a teacher.

Children in early years rely on many external factors to develop and learn. They enter into Primary at a pre-literacy stage in which they rely on many external factors to begin their journey to literacy over the coming years. In infants the Aistear programme runs for Juniors as well as the Primary School Curriculum. If you cared to look them up & accompanying lesson plans, you would see the amount of teaching & learning that is centred around Oral Language, Communication, development of phonological awareness & letter sounds eventually. Not to mention social & emotional behaviours + developments which they learn gradually as their time at school progresses.
The whole Primary School Curriculum, both here & internationally is centred around similar goals. Children cannot develop their literacy skills when say for example, they cannot see sounds being formed, or practise making them themselves at their table. It would also hinder in their recall, not to mention as I stated previously the plethora of younger children coming in with speech issues. Many of these issues get sorted by age 6. However throw in your suggestions re masks & we’ve a generation who are years behind on their learning. Ireland - who currently scores very highly on international literacy tables, would be plummeted and so to would our reputation as having and educated workforce.

I could write an essay on this but it’s a Friday night, enjoy the debate!

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:55PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

So you’re profession is nursing. I wouldn’t suggest measures to hospitals & nurses re mask wearing in medical settings, etc., as it’s not my area of expertise. I’m not trained professionally as a nurse.
I’m not going to give my specific qualifications only to say I’m a teacher.
!

I am a primary teacher and a nurse.

So what you are saying is that you have no experience working with children in masks.

I love how you never answered any of the questions asked but thanks.

05-09-2020 12:11AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

So you’re profession is nursing. I wouldn’t suggest measures to hospitals & nurses re mask wearing in medical settings, etc., as it’s not my area of expertise. I’m not trained professionally as a nurse.
I’m not going to give my specific qualifications only to say I’m a teacher.

Children in early years rely on many external factors to develop and learn. They enter into Primary at a pre-literacy stage in which they rely on many external factors to begin their journey to literacy over the coming years. In infants the Aistear programme runs for Juniors as well as the Primary School Curriculum. If you cared to look them up & accompanying lesson plans, you would see the amount of teaching & learning that is centred around Oral Language, Communication, development of phonological awareness & letter sounds eventually. Not to mention social & emotional behaviours + developments which they learn gradually as their time at school progresses.
The whole Primary School Curriculum, both here & internationally is centred around similar goals. Children cannot develop their literacy skills when say for example, they cannot see sounds being formed, or practise making them themselves at their table. It would also hinder in their recall, not to mention as I stated previously the plethora of younger children coming in with speech issues. Many of these issues get sorted by age 6. However throw in your suggestions re masks & we’ve a generation who are years behind on their learning. Ireland - who currently scores very highly on international literacy tables, would be plummeted and so to would our reputation as having and educated workforce.

I could write an essay on this but it’s a Friday night, enjoy the debate!

Even if any of that were true it’s irrelevant.

Things have changed children will have to adapt to the new normal and part of that is wearing masks.

Leftwaffe · 05-09-2020 12:32AM

khalessi wrote: »

The visor is optics, if it is not being worn with a mask it is unsafe and an ineffective method to protect someone from an airborn virus. That is why a mask should be worn with it as it is not doing the job people expect it to do. It is being handed out in schools as the only PPE which is incorrect, ineffective and unsafe, but sure that is just the nurse side of me talking.

I agree it's pure optics. People going around with them at all sorts of angles.

Next question is, what is the % chance of being infected through the eyes? Airborne particles would be enough?

khalessi · 05-09-2020 12:42AM

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

I agree it's pure optics. People going around with them at all sorts of angles.

Next question is, what is the % chance of being infected through the eyes? Airborne particles would be enough?

This study was in April so there is probably more up to date information

"Our investigation suggests that among patients with COVID-19, 31.6% (95% CI, 17.5-48.7) have ocular abnormalities, with most among patients with more severe systemic manifestations or abnormal findings on blood test," Wu and colleagues report. "These results suggest that ocular symptoms commonly appear in patients with severe pneumonia."

https://www.contagionlive.com/news/the-eyes-have-it-novel-coronavirus-in-eye-can-be-communicable

https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20200526/can-you-catch-covid19-through-your-eyes suggests that is a route but needs more research

wirelessdude01 · 05-09-2020 06:53AM

Voltairey wrote: »

I was told I was not permitted to wear one (primary level). We were given visors, but I didn't feel safe with just the visor so I wore a mask as well. My principal took me aside and reprimanded me on Tuesday for it, said he wanted to say it sooner but he was too busy and I shouldn't have gone against the rules because "everyone will be doing it". I explained my medical situation and showed him a note from my doctor advising a surgical grade mask. He said it was unacceptable that I was causing so much hassle at such a difficult time for the school.

I left school at 4 and was signed off by Medmark by 5 once I'd sent in the docs they asked for. The principal replied to my email with the forms saying "Ok, I'll be in touch".

Although I've spoken with the sub, because I know him personally and wanted to fill him in about the class, I've had no contact from the principal since the curt reply.

It's a strange situation and I'm pretty devestated to say that I'm looking for jobs outside of teaching at the moment because clearly it's not something I'm going to be able to do anymore. I absolutely loved my job, I'm totally heartbroken to have to leave it. This virus is so ****.

No nice way to say this, your principal is a bit of a prick.

wirelessdude01 · 05-09-2020 06:58AM

khalessi wrote: »

I love how you never answered any of the questions asked but thanks.

The strategy of only asking questions and not answering any reminds me of a very prominent previous poster.

downthemiddle · 05-09-2020 07:47AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

So you’re profession is nursing. I wouldn’t suggest measures to hospitals & nurses re mask wearing in medical settings, etc., as it’s not my area of expertise. I’m not trained professionally as a nurse.
I’m not going to give my specific qualifications only to say I’m a teacher.

Children in early years rely on many external factors to develop and learn. They enter into Primary at a pre-literacy stage in which they rely on many external factors to begin their journey to literacy over the coming years. In infants the Aistear programme runs for Juniors as well as the Primary School Curriculum. If you cared to look them up & accompanying lesson plans, you would see the amount of teaching & learning that is centred around Oral Language, Communication, development of phonological awareness & letter sounds eventually. Not to mention social & emotional behaviours + developments which they learn gradually as their time at school progresses.
The whole Primary School Curriculum, both here & internationally is centred around similar goals. Children cannot develop their literacy skills when say for example, they cannot see sounds being formed, or practise making them themselves at their table. It would also hinder in their recall, not to mention as I stated previously the plethora of younger children coming in with speech issues. Many of these issues get sorted by age 6. However throw in your suggestions re masks & we’ve a generation who are years behind on their learning. Ireland - who currently scores very highly on international literacy tables, would be plummeted and so to would our reputation as having and educated workforce.

I could write an essay on this but it’s a Friday night, enjoy the debate!

Are you claiming to be a primary school teacher?

Icyseanfitz · 05-09-2020 08:50AM

Voltairey wrote: »

I was told I was not permitted to wear one (primary level). We were given visors, but I didn't feel safe with just the visor so I wore a mask as well. My principal took me aside and reprimanded me on Tuesday for it, said he wanted to say it sooner but he was too busy and I shouldn't have gone against the rules because "everyone will be doing it". I explained my medical situation and showed him a note from my doctor advising a surgical grade mask. He said it was unacceptable that I was causing so much hassle at such a difficult time for the school.

I left school at 4 and was signed off by Medmark by 5 once I'd sent in the docs they asked for. The principal replied to my email with the forms saying "Ok, I'll be in touch".

Although I've spoken with the sub, because I know him personally and wanted to fill him in about the class, I've had no contact from the principal since the curt reply.

It's a strange situation and I'm pretty devestated to say that I'm looking for jobs outside of teaching at the moment because clearly it's not something I'm going to be able to do anymore. I absolutely loved my job, I'm totally heartbroken to have to leave it. This virus is so ****.

Don't let one asshole principal put you off, go on leave until this (hopeful) goes away and find a new school that will appreciate you.

What a nasty person, no care at all for the safety of their staff.

is_that_so · 05-09-2020 09:17AM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Don't let one asshole principal put you off, go on leave until this (hopeful) goes away and find a new school that will appreciate you.

What a nasty person, no care at all for the safety of their staff.

TBF the poster did recognise the overall difficulty of the situation and there are other issues to consider here, like the kids and even the parents of those kids. The principal is doing their job, an approach forced on them by this virus.

Newbienoob · 05-09-2020 09:56AM

Voltairey wrote: »

I was told I was not permitted to wear one (primary level). We were given visors, but I didn't feel safe with just the visor so I wore a mask as well. My principal took me aside and reprimanded me on Tuesday for it, said he wanted to say it sooner but he was too busy and I shouldn't have gone against the rules because "everyone will be doing it". I explained my medical situation and showed him a note from my doctor advising a surgical grade mask. He said it was unacceptable that I was causing so much hassle at such a difficult time for the school.

I left school at 4 and was signed off by Medmark by 5 once I'd sent in the docs they asked for. The principal replied to my email with the forms saying "Ok, I'll be in touch".

Although I've spoken with the sub, because I know him personally and wanted to fill him in about the class, I've had no contact from the principal since the curt reply.

It's a strange situation and I'm pretty devestated to say that I'm looking for jobs outside of teaching at the moment because clearly it's not something I'm going to be able to do anymore. I absolutely loved my job, I'm totally heartbroken to have to leave it. This virus is so ****.

You can work from home if Medmark deem you in the very high risk group? So you can still do your job. Please dont leave the profession, the virus will go eventually and there are ways around it. Contact the INTO.

The principal has to ensure a safe environment for you as does the Dept of Ed so if you need a mask you wear one. ALL teachers in schools I know are wearing masks or visors or BOTH.

Please consider finding a new school..so many lovely principals out there. You sound like you're a great teacher and another school will treasure you!! Best of luck!!

irishblessing · 05-09-2020 10:00AM

Voltairey wrote: »

I was told I was not permitted to wear one (primary level). We were given visors, but I didn't feel safe with just the visor so I wore a mask as well. My principal took me aside and reprimanded me on Tuesday for it, said he wanted to say it sooner but he was too busy and I shouldn't have gone against the rules because "everyone will be doing it". I explained my medical situation and showed him a note from my doctor advising a surgical grade mask. He said it was unacceptable that I was causing so much hassle at such a difficult time for the school.

I left school at 4 and was signed off by Medmark by 5 once I'd sent in the docs they asked for. The principal replied to my email with the forms saying "Ok, I'll be in touch".

Although I've spoken with the sub, because I know him personally and wanted to fill him in about the class, I've had no contact from the principal since the curt reply.

It's a strange situation and I'm pretty devestated to say that I'm looking for jobs outside of teaching at the moment because clearly it's not something I'm going to be able to do anymore. I absolutely loved my job, I'm totally heartbroken to have to leave it. This virus is so ****.

What an arsehole. All teachers and staff at my kids primary school wear masks, and they all had a very happy first week back. "Everyone" should wear masks especially around those in 4th class and up (or from 6 years of age going by WHO/Unicef recommendations), and the only one causing hassle is him. Hopefully this is just a temporary blip for you in your career. How about tutoring for now? Hang in there.

irishblessing · 05-09-2020 10:02AM

khalessi wrote: »

You still did not answer the questions asked.

Btw as a teacher I am psml at this post oh and I am a registered nurse who has worked with children too and also have 2 other qualifications.

So what are your qualifications in relation to working with children and masks?

Was wondering when you were going to drop that! You have the patience of a saint. :pac:

Sammy2012 · 05-09-2020 10:08AM

Just reading over the lasf fee posts on the thread about visors. I am teaching in a school where some staff are wearing visors only. There is condensation pooling on them a lot of the time. This is surely unhygienic??

I wear my mask when I am in close contact with the children but have a box taped out around my board to allow me teach without on one. The children are at least 2 metres away from me at this time. I also have my screen around my desk. Windows open all day so far. We are trying but if it works remains to be seen.

Icyseanfitz · 05-09-2020 10:28AM

is_that_so wrote: »

TBF the poster did recognise the overall difficulty of the situation and there are other issues to consider here, like the kids and even the parents of those kids. The principal is doing their job, an approach forced on them by this virus.

i do not agree that the principal is doing their job correctly, safety of staff and students should be their utmost priority at the moment, education comes second to that and always should.

nothing · 05-09-2020 11:52AM

School cases so far (sourced from news reports, various school and hse letters posted online)

SusanC10 · 05-09-2020 12:08PM

nothing wrote: »

School cases so far (sourced from news reports, various school and hse letters posted online)

Where are you seeing the information about the last few schools on the List - Meath and Kerry ?

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 05-09-2020 12:12PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Where are you seeing the information about the last few schools on the List - Meath and Kerry ?

Heard of Kerry school near killarney from a colleague whose wife is in that school so that seems correct

PCros · 05-09-2020 12:13PM

I’m all for collecting the data on schools with cases but is it necessary to name the actual schools in the public domain?

I mean I’ve no problem counting the cases in schools by counties but I just feel naming schools is going to put more pressure on principals who are already up against a lot.

Also are parents going to be faced with journos outside the schools gates on Monday?

The students, parents and teachers will all be notified so I don’t see why it needs to go further than that. Unless we’re not confident in the track and trace system?

Just my 2 cents.

wirelessdude01 · 05-09-2020 12:18PM

SusanC10 wrote: »

Where are you seeing the information about the last few schools on the List - Meath and Kerry ?

The HSE letters for the Donacarney schools are widely available on twitter.

05-09-2020 12:18PM

PCros wrote: »

I’m all for collecting the data on schools with cases but is it necessary to name the actual schools in the public domain?

I mean I’ve no problem counting the cases in schools by counties but I just feel naming schools is going to put more pressure on principals who are already up against a lot.

Also are parents going to be faced with journos outside the schools gates on Monday?

The students, parents and teachers will all be notified so I don’t see why it needs to go further than that. Unless we’re not confident in the track and trace system?

Just my 2 cents.

Not enough journos to go round. If we stay and 100 cases a day, that’s 20 kids a day. Some of those will have been isolating due to being contacts of confirmed cases, but we could easily expect up to 5 to 10 classrooms or pods around the country to be isolated daily

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 05-09-2020 12:19PM

PCros wrote: »

I’m all for collecting the data on schools with cases but is it necessary to name the actual schools in the public domain?

I mean I’ve no problem counting the cases in schools by counties but I just feel naming schools is going to put more pressure on principals who are already up against a lot.

Also are parents going to be faced with journos outside the schools gates on Monday?

The students, parents and teachers will all be notified so I don’t see why it needs to go further than that. Unless we’re not confident in the track and trace system?

Just my 2 cents.

Don't see how we can be confident in a contact tracing system. Some secondary schools have an insane number of possible contacts. Wudnt be possible to track.

Journalists will hardly line up at schools as the number of schools will just grow and grow. It'll be fairly normal to have classes or years of a school at home for periods this year.

No harm in informing public I think, remind them to be careful as virus is in their community

05-09-2020 12:19PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

The HSE letters for the Donacarney schools are widely available on twitter.

Surely there is a more efficient way of notifying parents than by letter. I for one don’t notice is there post in my letter box every day

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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