How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Will Yam · 04-09-2020 11:02PM

khalessi wrote: »

Well the fact that they do not protect you from Covid19 without using a mask also I would consider them unsafe and ineffective. There is a reason we never used them in hospitals without a mask

There is a huge difference between being unsafe and being ineffective.

I can’t believe that wearing a visor is unsafe. It may not do you much good - and that is a very debatable point - but to claim they are unsafe is downright scaremongering.

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:05PM

Will Yam wrote: »

There is a huge difference between being unsafe and being ineffective.

I can’t believe that wearing a visor is unsafe. It may not do you much good - and that is a very debatable point - but to claim they are unsafe is downright scaremongering.

Indeed, well I am not scaremongering I am just saying that as a nurse we would not have worn a visor without a mask as it was not safe enough to protect from airborn germs/viruses etc and also ineffective protection. It can be both. You are the one using the word scaremongering I am just stating a fact.

Is a parachute with a hole in it, unsafe or ineffective or both?

Will Yam · 04-09-2020 11:06PM

khalessi wrote: »

Indeed, well I am not scaremongering I am just saying that as a nurse we would not have worn a visor without a mask as it was not safe enough to protect from airborn germs/viruses etc and also ineffective protection. It can be both. You are the one using the word scaremongering I am just stating a fact.

Not safe enough is very very different from being unsafe

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:07PM

VIsors were originally encouraged to protect the membranes of the eyes from coronavirus.

Blondini · 04-09-2020 11:07PM

Laszlo Cravensworth wrote: »

Apologies if it has been mentioned already, but the primary school in Loughshinny in NCD has had a positive case. Entire class was sent home yesterday.

One of my neighbours kids is part of the class.

I can't see this being reported anywhere.

It is obvious even at this extremely early stage with only partial countrywide reopening, that there are a lot more instances than the ones reported in the media.

CruelSummer · 04-09-2020 11:08PM

khalessi wrote: »

I am curious do you not think teachers have education and well being in mind? What other field do you think is relevent in relation to children? I have seen plenty of small children wearing masks wandering around and not at them.

CHildren in other countries wear masks, why do you think it is disastorous for their education?

In regards to wearing masks, I have worn one on 8 and 10 hour shifts continuously along with a welding type helmet and suffered no consequences.

I’m afraid you post displays your lack of understanding for how young children learn, develop & interact, not to mention the workings of a school. It’s classic - sure teaching is easy. Just teach a few letters & numbers and go home to doss. Easy pezy

briangriffin · 04-09-2020 11:09PM

Will Yam wrote: »

There is a huge difference between being unsafe and being ineffective.

I can’t believe that wearing a visor is unsafe. It may not do you much good - and that is a very debatable point - but to claim they are unsafe is downright scaremongering.

They can be both ineffective and unsafe, - unsafe because the wearer may falsely believe that they are fully protected from contracting covid19 and may take greater risks as a result - without the visor they would be far more conscious of physical distancing, unfortunately there are many people who falsely believe visors offer a higher level of protection than they actually do -

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:10PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I’m curious, are you a teacher?

Why? Does your answer depend on whether or not I am a teacher?

Jinglejangle69 · 04-09-2020 11:13PM

Laszlo Cravensworth wrote: »

Apologies if it has been mentioned already, but the primary school in Loughshinny in NCD has had a positive case. Entire class was sent home yesterday.

One of my neighbours kids is part of the class.

I can't see this being reported anywhere.

Why does it need to be reported?

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:13PM

Will Yam wrote: »

Not safe enough is very very different from being unsafe

Well from a medical point of view unsafe and not safe enough is the same thing if they do not protect you. It seems you are having difficulty understandiung they are not safe and ineffective without a mask.

As I asked is a parachute with a hole unsafe, ineffective or both?

CruelSummer · 04-09-2020 11:15PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

I’m sure you will be able to provide evidence of the damage mask wearing does. Otherwise you will be seen as another conspiracy theory crank.

What are you on about? Why would I be a conspiracy theorist when making clear, valid points as to how this might affect young children. How can there be an evidence based study when young children in other countries bar China are NOT wearing masks...
Perhaps ask anyone in the Education system, particularly Primary and get back to me.

Blondini · 04-09-2020 11:15PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Why does it need to be reported?

Because it's news that reasonable and intelligent people would like to know, especially if they have links to the school.

CruelSummer · 04-09-2020 11:17PM

khalessi wrote: »

Why? Does your answer depend on whether or not I am a teacher?

I actually read to the end of your post and realised you’re not. If you were, particularly Primary. I would be utterly shocked with your points & suggestions considering all the training that is done re how children develop & learn at young ages.

Jinglejangle69 · 04-09-2020 11:18PM

Blondini wrote: »

Because it's news that reasonable and intelligent people would like to know, especially if they have links to the school.

But we were never told of outbreaks and clusters months ago, why now?

Were you annoyed in March and April that they didn't tell us where cases were present?

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:20PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I actually read to the end of your post and realised you’re not. If you were, particularly Primary. I would be utterly shocked with your points & suggestions considering all the training that is done re how children develop & learn at young ages.

You still did not answer the questions I asked, good evasion. Once you get over the shock pleae answer.

I love that my background gives me a unique view on this

meeeeh · 04-09-2020 11:20PM

khalessi wrote: »

Well from a medical point of view unsafe and not safe enough is the same thing if they do not protect you. It seems you are having difficulty understandiung they are not safe and ineffective without a mask.

As I asked is a parachute with a hole unsafe, ineffective or both?

Parachute with a hole is defective and therefore both. The use of visor can be unsafe but visor itself is not (if it's not defective).

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:22PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Parachute with a hole is defective and therefore both. The use of visor can be unsafe but visor itself is not (if it's not defective).

VIsor is not safe from protecting someone from an airborn pathogen, hence they were always used with masks. They are there to prevent the eyes from getting infected but do not protect the mouth, therefore unsafe and ineffective.

caveat emptor · 04-09-2020 11:22PM

meeeeh wrote: »

What would the multiple sources be? Twitter?

Anyway a preliminary data in UK is coming out that covid rate among school going kids was no higher to the rate among population. However higher numbers were detected among minorities and children of health workers. So all we need to do is keep black children and those whose parents work for HSE at home and it's problem solved.

And no I'm not being serious.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/going-to-school-does-not-increase-risk-of-young-children-catching-coronavirus-56bk8kp3x

caveat emptor wrote: »

Heard it through multiple sources of other schools not reported yet. The lack of transparency is terrible.

meeeeh wrote: »

Well it seems that parents are being informed, just because it doesn't make it to the bews it doesn't mean it's being suppressed. Stuff does happen without making news every so often and reporting every case in schools will just not be interesting enough for national media. Clusters probably will be at least at the beginning.

So if it's not reported it's not suppressed. Is there a difference in 1 school class in one area vs 5 in an other. Or 8 schools effected in 8 distinct geographic areas. How long before it's an issue .

I'm sorry the government saying it's completely fine to reopen yet nobody is reporting on it. How are we to know the statement is factually correct.

Furthermore how are the families who have vulnerable people supposed to shield themselves if the school are telling them it's perfectly safe to send them when there could be a confirmed case in the case next to their kid?

It's very similar to the nursing home debacle where we learned what went on after the fact.

caveat emptor · 04-09-2020 11:25PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Parachute with a hole is defective and therefore both. The use of visor can be unsafe but visor itself is not (if it's not defective).

Give over, in the context of an airborne pathogen that infects people when they breath the same air as an infected person a visor is woefully inadequate as many people have learned.

meeeeh · 04-09-2020 11:25PM

khalessi wrote: »

VIsor is not safe from protecting someone from an airborn pathogen, hence they were always used with masks. They are there to prevent the eyes from getting infected but do not protect the mouth, therefore unsafe and ineffective.

No their use can ve unsafe the item itself is not. I'm not arguing about the point you are making but it's not correct to say visor is unsafe.

jrosen · 04-09-2020 11:25PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

So if it's not reported it's not suppressed. Is there a difference in 1 school class in one area vs 5 in an other. Or 8 schools effected in 8 distinct geographic areas. How long before it's an issue .

I'm sorry the government saying it's completely fine to reopen yet nobody is reporting on it. How are we to know the statement is factually correct.

Furthermore how are the families who have vulnerable people supposed to shield themselves if the school are telling them it's perfectly safe to send them when there could be a confirmed case in the case next to their kid?

It's very similar to the nursing home debacle where we learned what went on after the fact.

If there is a case in a childs class the families will be notified. All contacts would be notified.
No one is saying its fine top open or that schools are perfectly safe. Nowhere is perfectly safe, there is risk. As a parent we need to access the risk.

Blondini · 04-09-2020 11:25PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

But we were never told of outbreaks and clusters months ago, why now?

This is a thread about covid in schools and we are talking about covid in schools. Amazing isn't it. Anyway, that's all my time you're getting JJ. Good luck.

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:26PM

meeeeh wrote: »

No their use can ve unsafe the item itself is not. I'm not arguing about the point you are making but it's not correct to say visor is unsafe.

Is that your medical opinion?

meeeeh · 04-09-2020 11:28PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Give over, in the context of an airborne pathogen that infects people when they breath the same air as an infected person a visor is woefully inadequate as many people have learned.

And I never stated that. However it is also stated that our mask (non surgical and sloppy use) mainly protects others and not ourselves. As far as know current research is neither will overly protect you from others, it should more protect others from you.

meeeeh · 04-09-2020 11:30PM

khalessi wrote: »

Is that your medical opinion?

No. Grammatical.

Warbeastrior · 04-09-2020 11:30PM

JDD wrote:

Does he teach secondary school students? I think there's a case to be made for secondary SNAs to wear PPE. Maybe not the full garb of a hospital setting, but an N95 mask and visor should be provided. If I were him I wouldn't be holding my breath (literally) for the DoE to provide it. An N95 mask costs â‚¬40 and a visor â‚¬5.

Yeah he works in a secondary school.

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:33PM

meeeeh wrote: »

No. Grammatical.

Lovely.

So you wont stand over it?

It is correct grammatically and medically, to say the visor is unsafe, if it is the only item a person is using to protect them from an airborn virus.

Voltairey · 04-09-2020 11:33PM

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

In our local primary school visors are worn while teaching unless going face to face with pupils for one on one learning

Any teachers here not wearing masks while in class?

I was told I was not permitted to wear one (primary level). We were given visors, but I didn't feel safe with just the visor so I wore a mask as well. My principal took me aside and reprimanded me on Tuesday for it, said he wanted to say it sooner but he was too busy and I shouldn't have gone against the rules because "everyone will be doing it". I explained my medical situation and showed him a note from my doctor advising a surgical grade mask. He said it was unacceptable that I was causing so much hassle at such a difficult time for the school.

I left school at 4 and was signed off by Medmark by 5 once I'd sent in the docs they asked for. The principal replied to my email with the forms saying "Ok, I'll be in touch".

Although I've spoken with the sub, because I know him personally and wanted to fill him in about the class, I've had no contact from the principal since the curt reply.

It's a strange situation and I'm pretty devestated to say that I'm looking for jobs outside of teaching at the moment because clearly it's not something I'm going to be able to do anymore. I absolutely loved my job, I'm totally heartbroken to have to leave it. This virus is so ****.

meeeeh · 04-09-2020 11:34PM

khalessi wrote: »

Lovely.

So you wont stand over it?

It is correct grammatically and medically, to say the visor is unsafe, if it is the only item a person is using to protect them from an airborn virus.

Yes that would be unsafe use of visor.

khalessi · 04-09-2020 11:35PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I’m afraid you post displays your lack of understanding for how young children learn, develop & interact, not to mention the workings of a school. It’s classic - sure teaching is easy. Just teach a few letters & numbers and go home to doss. Easy pezy

You still did not answer the questions asked.

Btw as a teacher I am psml at this post oh and I am a registered nurse who has worked with children too and also have 2 other qualifications.

So what are your qualifications in relation to working with children and masks?

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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