Minister for Agriculture attends 81-person golf event in breach of health guidelines

elperello · 03-09-2020 06:39PM

Phishnet wrote: »

Just for re-balance.

How did Justice Seamus Woulfe arrive at this understanding?

What assertive actions did he take himself to satisfy his understanding?

The point of my post was not to defend SW.

I just posted his apology for clarity.

The link I posted from the Irish Times shows the seriousness of the fix he is in.

This explains why he is lawyering up for Denham.

The story has moved on beyond the Covid 19 issue.

ShamNNspace · 03-09-2020 06:40PM

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

I laughed out loud reading Jerrys guff. He was 15 days preparing that spoof and learning from all the other fake apologies. The Clifden Elite dinner will haunt FFG for a decade.

And the Gods were indeed displeased as we witnessed at the weekend

Rows Grower · 03-09-2020 07:08PM

stockshares wrote: »

Jerry Buttimer has apologised again. Some would say this is cynical considering there might be a by election shortly.

Sen Buttimer, a Fine Gael TD in Cork South Central from 2011 to 2016, resigned as Leas-Cathaoirleach of the Seanad immediately in the wake of 'Golfgate.'

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/i-can-understand-the-anger-pain-and-frustration-of-people-i-am-angry-at-myself-senator-jerry-buttimer-apologises-for-attending-golfgate-dinner-39500504.html

"I am sorry to the people working in our frontline healthcare services, to the families of those who have died, who have recovered from Covid-19 and who have made great personal sacrifices during this difficult time," he said.

I let people down and I compromised the work of all those people."

Firstly, I had to listen to the anger of people - there is embarrassment and mortification over what had happened. I am conscious
that I let people down. It was important for me to listen to public anger. I also had to reflect on what happened. I am profoundly sorry - I know people will say it is 15 days later but my words are sincere."

"I was on holidays in the west of Ireland, I am not a member of the society but I went to the event. It was a huge error in judgement (it was) a combination of a false sense of security and complacency - I didn't live up to the expectations and demands placed on me as a member of the Oireachtas."

"I was on holidays in the west of Ireland and I threw the golf clubs in the back of the car. I arrived at the club at 2pm and played golf. There was no maliciousness or intent to cause harm."

"I did ask on Tuesday night the organisers and the hotel owner about the event and I was assured it was Covid compliant. But I made a decision to go so it is on me. I should not have gone. I am genuinely sorry for being there."

It was an act of complacency - a lack of concentration on my part. I didn't definitively go through the regulations and I regret that now."

"I had (been aware that guidelines had changed). If I am honest, I was probably too ready to accept the assurances that I was within the guidelines. But it was my responsibility."

"I should have left (the event) - I did have that thought in my head (about seating issues). It was a profound error of judgement. It was complacency, a false sense of security and being too willing to offer the assurances that were offered."

"I can understand the anger, pain and frustration of people - I am angry at myself. I let people down and I am really sorry for that. I am sorry I didn't leave the event."

"It is my responsibility - I should have acted, I didn't and I regret that very much. I am not justifying it. I very much regret being there. In my case, after being 16 years as a public representative, I should have used better judgement."

On Thursday night I spoke to Leo Varadkar but I had (already) made a decision I was going to resign. I called him. The conversation was centred on what we are talking about right now. I woke up that Friday morning and knew I was going to resign."

"There was no conversation about that - I knew I was going to resign. I didn't live up to the expectations of people - I know people that have made huge sacrifices (during the pandemic). There was a breach of trust by me and I made the decision on Thursday night I was going to resign. It was my failing and my shortcoming."

No words of mine can convey my sorrow - I am sorry I let people down."

I have not been hiding from people. I am asking the people of Cork to allow me to make amends. I have had texts and letters from people and people are understandably angry. It is a learning experience for me. I am now asking for forgiveness for my mistake."

"I never in my life sought to be different - I am an ordinary person. I never acted as if I had privilege. I wish I could stop the clock and turn it back 15 days

To be honest, it (a by-election) is the furthest thing from my mind. I want to rebuild the relationship and trust I had with people. I will continue to work to rebuild that trust with people. I am not looking at a by-election at all."

My opinion on it
It's been 15 days since the event.
It's not an apology. He's asking to keep his job.

He had a false sense of security because of who was there so he thought he'd be grand. Therefore he knew it was wrong in the first place.

He's blaming the Hotel because they gave assurances, wants the electorate to understand what he's gone through since and for them to forgive him so that he can learn from it and continue working for them with his eye on the by election.

Given that he isn't a member of the Golf society who told him about the event?

He was already on holidays in the West and called the Hotel Tuesday night and went to it the next day at 2pm.

Gerry's problem is he try's too hard to come across as a man of the people when he needs votes and only when he needs votes. He's so full of his own self importance he should really be about 12 feet tall to be able to contain it.

Here he tries to reiterate in his inexcusably late attempt at grovelling that he has already done the honourable thing and resigned of his own free will when in fact nothing could be further from the truth.

He resigned from a bonus position he somehow managed to wrangle that was worth an extra 25 grand a year to him for doing a job he was already getting very well paid for.

He hasn't resigned his position as a public representative, which he should be made to if Fine Gael wants to salvage any image of integrity from this shambles.

Leo is now trying to deflect away from this nightmare of a scenario now by giving press release's saying he thinks the wet pubs should be left open.

Really Leo, is that the best you can come up with? Have some respect for the people.

People like Buttimer disgust me with their sense of entitlement and self importance but thankfully they are few and far between and becoming a rarer feature in public office.

josip · 04-09-2020 12:07PM

Phishnet wrote: »

If this golf dinner had occurred in England or Scotland (even if Covid was not around) the Judges who attended would be dismissed from office.

Like Cummings was?

04-09-2020 12:21PM

josip wrote: »

Like Cummings was?

No separation of powers between Boris and Dom! It’s Dom that has the power. As Anne Widdecombe once remarked about Michael Howard, there is "something of the night about him”

Bannasidhe · 04-09-2020 12:27PM

josip wrote: »

Like Cummings was?

When was Cummings made a judge?

Muahahaha · 04-09-2020 12:49PM

That was quite the apology from Jerry Buttimer and 15 days after he issued apology number one. I wonder what was going on in the background there. It sounds like internal party shennaigans to me, maybe someone told Buttimer that Coveney was definitely running for EU commissioner so Buttimer thought there was going to be a by-election.

johnsparkexile · 04-09-2020 01:04PM

Funnily enough ,the Waterford Senator John Cummins issued a second apology on the 03/09/2020, after going to ground for the last 2 weeks and refusing all requests for an interview.Damien Tiernan stated at the start of the interview that he had been contacted at short notice to say that John Cummins was available

"In his first interview since the news broke, he told Damien Tiernan on Deise Today that he apologises profusely for his attendance at the ill-fated dinner in Clifden, Co Galway two weeks ago."

"He said that he wished he had never gone and that he had been assured by organisers the event was within the guidelines."

The interview is available on the WLR FM website if anyones interested. My own opinion on it was that Tiernan went easy on him

04-09-2020 01:17PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

That was quite the apology from Jerry Buttimer and 15 days after he issued apology number one. I wonder what was going on in the background there. It sounds like internal party shennaigans to me, maybe someone told Buttimer that Coveney was definitely running for EU commissioner so Buttimer thought there was going to be a by-election.

I think that is the entirety of it

ChikiChiki · 04-09-2020 01:21PM

Jerry Buttimer only cares about Jerry Buttimer.

He's afraid that he will soon be out of the trough.

stockshares · 04-09-2020 01:42PM

johnsparkexile wrote: »

Funnily enough ,the Waterford Senator John Cummins issued a second apology on the 03/09/2020, after going to ground for the last 2 weeks and refusing all requests for an interview.Damien Tiernan stated at the start of the interview that he had been contacted at short notice to say that John Cummins was available

"In his first interview since the news broke, he told Damien Tiernan on Deise Today that he apologises profusely for his attendance at the ill-fated dinner in Clifden, Co Galway two weeks ago."

"He said that he wished he had never gone and that he had been assured by organisers the event was within the guidelines."

The interview is available on the WLR FM website if anyones interested. My own opinion on it was that Tiernan went easy on him

Woulfe, Buttimer and now Cummins have all blamed the Hotel for giving assurances. That didn't save Phil.

It is baffling though that these have managed to outlast him.

If you look at the number of views the Hogan thread has and compare it to the Woulfe threads there is little interest in removing Woulfe and others. I know this is just Boards and there are other forums but I imagine it's the same in those.

It seems it was revenge for Irish Water.

There is very little in msm about removing the Ministers and Councillors. Maybe it will flare up again when Denhams Inquiry nears it's end

Bannasidhe · 04-09-2020 02:12PM

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Jerry Buttimer only cares about Jerry Buttimer.

He's afraid that he will soon be out of the trough.

What ever his motivation it looks like Jerry is out of the loop as there will not be a by election in CSC.
Mairead McGuinness and Andrew McDowell (former European Investment Bank VP, economic adviser to Enda Kenny) are the nominees.

I imagine it will be McGuinness not because she is a woman but because she is an MEP with vast experience and was very much in evidence during the many many Brexit negotiations.
McDowell isn't a politician - he's a behind the scenes advisor/economist/banker so his expertise is limited when it comes to getting a portfolio and he wouldn't be hugely familiar with the inner political workings of the E.U

ChikiChiki · 04-09-2020 02:35PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What ever his motivation it looks like Jerry is out of the loop as there will not be a by election in CSC.
Mairead McGuinness and Andrew McDowell (former European Investment Bank VP, economic adviser to Enda Kenny) are the nominees.

I imagine it will be McGuinness not because she is a woman but because she is an MEP with vast experience and was very much in evidence during the many many Brexit negotiations.
McDowell isn't a politician - he's a behind the scenes advisor/economist/banker so his expertise is limited when it comes to getting a portfolio and he wouldn't be hugely familiar with the inner political workings of the E.U

Agree - McGuinness a dead cert.

stockshares · 04-09-2020 02:35PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

What ever his motivation it looks like Jerry is out of the loop as there will not be a by election in CSC.
Mairead McGuinness and Andrew McDowell (former European Investment Bank VP, economic adviser to Enda Kenny) are the nominees.

I imagine it will be McGuinness not because she is a woman but because she is an MEP with vast experience and was very much in evidence during the many many Brexit negotiations.
McDowell isn't a politician - he's a behind the scenes advisor/economist/banker so his expertise is limited when it comes to getting a portfolio and he wouldn't be hugely familiar with the inner political workings of the E.U

McGuinnesses replacements if she gets the job.
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1301865296202956803?s=19

jimmycrackcorm · 04-09-2020 02:43PM

Rows Grower wrote: »

He hasn't resigned his position as a public representative, which he should be made to if Fine Gael wants to salvage any image of integrity from this shambles.

.

This sorry of baying for blood is ridiculous. I see people in shops all the time not wearing masks. Should they be resigning their jobs?

I wouldn't expect Mary Lou or Michelle to resign their seats over attending the funeral either.

Bannasidhe · 04-09-2020 02:46PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

This sorry of baying for blood is ridiculous. I see people in shops all the time not wearing masks. Should they be resigning their jobs?

I wouldn't expect Mary Lou or Michelle to resign their seats over attending the funeral either.

If they work in the shop - yes.

Gregor Samsa · 04-09-2020 03:00PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

If they work in the shop - yes.

Retail staff don't have to wear face coverings if they're behind a screen, or take all reasonable steps to keep a 2-metre distance from others.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/296/made/en/print

Muahahaha · 04-09-2020 03:01PM

stockshares wrote: »

McGuinnesses replacements if she gets the job.
https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1301865296202956803?s=19

Good jesus thats the same Frank Feighan who got elected off the back of promises to protect the A&E at Roscommon Hospital but then when he got into power he voted to shut it down and downgrade the hospital. Also the same Frank Feighan assaulted an elderly man who was trying to talk to Enda Kenny.

stockshares · 04-09-2020 03:10PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Good jesus thats the same Frank Feighan who got elected off the back of promises to protect the A&E at Roscommon Hospital but then when he got into power he voted to shut it down and downgrade the hospital. Also the same Frank Feighan assaulted an elderly man who was trying to talk to Enda Kenny.

After reading your post on the list of Solicitors/Barristers attending Fine Gael fundraisers and then this list I can only conclude that there's no end of them.

Reminds me of the scene at the end of Dances with Wolves when the Indian Chief asks Kevin Costner "how many more are coming(meaning white settlers) and his answer was "more than all the stars in the sky".

elperello · 04-09-2020 03:18PM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Good jesus thats the same Frank Feighan who got elected off the back of promises to protect the A&E at Roscommon Hospital but then when he got into power he voted to shut it down and downgrade the hospital. Also the same Frank Feighan assaulted an elderly man who was trying to talk to Enda Kenny.

The cream always rises to the top

Bannasidhe · 04-09-2020 03:22PM

Gregor Samsa wrote: »

Retail staff don't have to wear face coverings if they're behind a screen, or take all reasonable steps to keep a 2-metre distance from others.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2020/si/296/made/en/print

I know.

maestroamado · 05-09-2020 02:27AM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Good jesus thats the same Frank Feighan who got elected off the back of promises to protect the A&E at Roscommon Hospital but then when he got into power he voted to shut it down and downgrade the hospital. Also the same Frank Feighan assaulted an elderly man who was trying to talk to Enda Kenny.

He is a changed man? so all ok, also he moved to different electrol area so all his past is wiped...

Edgware · 05-09-2020 09:17AM

Muahahaha wrote: »

Good jesus thats the same Frank Feighan who got elected off the back of promises to protect the A&E at Roscommon Hospital but then when he got into power he voted to shut it down and downgrade the hospital. Also the same Frank Feighan assaulted an elderly man who was trying to talk to Enda Kenny.

He will get on well with those other spacers at the Euro trough, Wallace, Daly, Flanagan etc

FrancieBrady · 05-09-2020 10:48AM

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

This sorry of baying for blood is ridiculous. I see people in shops all the time not wearing masks. Should they be resigning their jobs?

I wouldn't expect Mary Lou or Michelle to resign their seats over attending the funeral either.

Attending a funeral wasn't against the regs though. What is being investigated is were regs broken at the funeral.

Muahahaha · 05-09-2020 03:04PM

Edgware wrote: »

He will get on well with those other spacers at the Euro trough, Wallace, Daly, Flanagan etc

Well funnily enough Frank Feighan did an interview with the Sligo Champion before the last European elections. He was the director of elections for the former Rose of Tralee Maria Walsh who ran for Fine Gael. In the interview Frank says he was asked by Fine Gael to run for Europe himself but he refused and said working in Europe wouldnt be for him.

Imagine then my surprise to see he is no.2 on Mairead McGuinnesses subs bench to take over her role as MEP. So the job clearly is for him but he just doesnt want the hassle of an election to actually win it :rolleyes:

elperello · 05-09-2020 03:15PM

Edgware wrote: »

He will get on well with those other spacers at the Euro trough, Wallace, Daly, Flanagan etc

Can't see him getting on well with those three MEP's.
More likely to hang out with fellow EPP members.

Not that he's going anywhere, he's only a sub.

By the way the European Parliament is important to Ireland. Yes the members get paid a fair wage and expenses but that is the price of democracy.

Yellow_Fern · 05-09-2020 04:33PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Attending a funeral wasn't against the regs though. What is being investigated is were regs broken at the funeral.

There was a 30 man limit at Northern Irish funerals though. I don't know if it was a criminal offense to break it but I am pretty sure Phil Hogan didn't cause any criminal offense de jure either.

elperello wrote: »

Can't see him getting on well with those three MEP's.
More likely to hang out with fellow EPP members.

Not that he's going anywhere, he's only a sub.

By the way the European Parliament is important to Ireland. Yes the members get paid a fair wage and expenses but that is the price of democracy.

The parliament is democratic but it has no power. The commission is there to represent the EU not the people and that is where the power lies.

elperello · 05-09-2020 06:54PM

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

There was a 30 man limit at Northern Irish funerals though. I don't know if it was a criminal offense to break it but I am pretty sure Phil Hogan didn't cause any criminal offense de jure either.

The parliament is democratic but it has no power. The commission is there to represent the EU not the people and that is where the power lies.

With respect that's a separate debate.

As long as there is a European Parliament that we have voted to send representatives to they have to be paid for.

I don't agree with the notion that politicians are "at the trough".

Yellow_Fern · 05-09-2020 09:18PM

elperello wrote: »

With respect that's a separate debate.

As long as there is a European Parliament that we have voted to send representatives to they have to be paid for.

I don't agree with the notion that politicians are "at the trough".

MEPs should get high wages but is each seat worth €2.3 million? There is serious largess. Their move from Brussels to Strasbourg every month is a 100 million example.

https://gript.ie/niamh-ui-bhriain-golfgate-the-real-scandal-is-that-a-man-was-left-to-die-with-maggots-in-his-face/

FrancieBrady · 05-09-2020 09:39PM

Yellow_Fern wrote: »

There was a 30 man limit at Northern Irish funerals though. I don't know if it was a criminal offense to break it but I am pretty sure Phil Hogan didn't cause any criminal offense de jure either.

Hogan lied to his bosses that is why he lost his job. His own fault in other words even if FGers are trying to blame everyone but him.

Minister for Agriculture attends 81-person golf event in breach of health guidelines

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