Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

Dohnjoe · 03-09-2020 11:57am

King Mob wrote: »

We're also waiting for a coherent, rational alternative explanation for events.

"The plane flew at and then over the Pentagon"

If there's a book detailing this theory, it has one line, that's it.

King Mob · 03-09-2020 12:00pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"The plane flew at and then over the Pentagon"

If there's a book detailing this theory, it has one line, that's it.

Why?
"Dunno. It's not my job to think of it. It doesn't have to make sense."

Cheerful Spring2 · 03-09-2020 12:33pm

The Nal wrote: »

We don't. There is no proof. There isn't even any credible evidence. Its been 19 years. No one has come forward. This conspiracy would've had to involve so many people, someone would've talked or slipped up.

Washington is the leakiest city in the world. With every passing year a conspiracy becomes less likely. Hence why the truther movement is dead, apart from the odd internet forum.

Your hypothesis is there will be hundreds of individuals involved in the planning stage, carrying it out, and the cover up? In my mind, this point of view is false.

US government states 19 men hijacked planes on 9/11 and yet there’s only video of 8 to 9 suspects.. US/ the FBI and State department and the Saudi Embassy has not provided background knowledge and material about their lives previously and we cannot track the 10 unknown suspects stay in the United States. If their evidence FBI not released it yet to the public.

The US established a detailed narrative of an organization called Al Qaeda based around Mohammed Atta flight 11 pilot, Ziah Jarad flight 93 pilot, and Hani Hanjour Flight 77, Marwan al-Shehhi is the alleged Flight 175 pilot.
Either way, for discussion here 4 planes got hijacked and those 19 men are dead

The bank documents the FBI got from the middle east reveal it was Saudi Pakistan and Muslim brotherhood money, the 9/11 hijackers debited from their customer account.
Everyone who taken the time here to research knows Bin laden funded no operation here to attack America.

Got plenty of evidence to confirm who financed this operation, and we also have an idea who the hijackers depended on inside the United States. Current evidence is middle east Sunni states engaged and helped this terrorist activity to hit America and the US / Bush neocon administration hide that intelligence from the US population after 9/11. This is a no longer a mystery now some media sites like Fox News are explaining the truth to the America public, and even mainstream paper media outlets, said the Saudis played a fundamental role helping the hijackers carry out the 9/11 attack.

The hidden conspiracy is was there, an organization that destroyed towers and building seven and what hit the Pentagon. Flight 93 shot down by a fighter jet?
How many people would have to know for it to be a successful event?
There’re enough evidence to establish facts- the CIA covered up the travel movements of the 9/11 hijackers for two years, for what reason, we nevertheless don’t know today.
This is not evidence the CIA knew of a group that was going to place demolitions in buildings before the attacks. For me its shows an intention to hide information about men plotting to carry out a terrorist attack inside America!

Either way, if men at the elite level of intelligence, military, business, ordered military trained demolition crews to install devices inside the buildings before 9/11, how many people outside of it would need to know about the operation?
Debunkers claim hundreds? Personally i think less than 30 people maybe less than that. Its an undercover operation/ black ops event and controllers would want to keep this group small as possible to avoid exposures. Conspirators would not pick men who would babble to the media.

They plan events like this for months and months if not years. People who would dare to do it, will have access to exotic explosive components, yet debunkers are silly and believe they would use normal grade explosives here and leave an easy find blueprint behind for the FBI how they did it?
The nanothermite was not an easy find. Years of testing had to be done to confirm the properties of the material. Debunkers will keep pulling the wool over people’s eyes the demolition event required hundreds, if not thousands of people to carry off, its a deflection.

They could carry out the entire demolition operation with 30 to 20 people. How many leaders? We don’t know that, could be 5 10, 15, but its not hundreds!!

King Mob · 03-09-2020 12:54pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Your hypothesis is there will be hundreds of individuals involved in the planning stage, carrying it out, and the cover up? In my mind, this point of view is false.

You also said it was false that flight 77 hit the pentagon. You changed your mind on that when it suited you.
You then said it was false that the plane flew over and away from the pentagon. You changed your mind on that also.

You have also repeated added dozens of people at a time to the conspiracy when it suited you.

How many people were involved in faking the attack at the pentagon? Who were they? What did they do?

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

They could carry out the entire demolition operation with 30 to 20 people. How many leaders? We don’t know that, could be 5 10, 15, but its not hundreds!!

Laughable.
Ruby, do you share this opinion?
How many people do you believe were involved in faking the pentagon attack?

Dohnjoe · 03-09-2020 1:09pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Your hypothesis is there will be hundreds of individuals involved in the planning stage, carrying it out, and the cover up? In my mind, this point of view is false.

Personal speculation and rationalisations are not evidence of anything.

If I rationalise that e.g. a team of around 20 guys could have planted explosives in some building and then blown it up, cool but that isn't evidence

That is a rationalisation. In my imagination. In my head.

I can describe how I think they did it, where it was planted, how much was used, what was used, how they got in, how they got out, how they dodged the cameras, how they covered it up, who told them to do it, etc, etc

It doesn't mean anything, it's not evidence of anything but my own imagination. It doesn't matter how "plausible" it sounds, it doesn't matter how detailed it sounds, it is completely worthless and meaningless with proper evidence

King Mob · 03-09-2020 1:29pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I can describe how I think they did it, where it was planted, how much was used, what was used, how they got in, how they got out, how they dodged the cameras, how they covered it up, who told them to do it, etc, etc

And conspiracy theorists can't even do this much.

Cheerful Spring2 · 03-09-2020 1:36pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Personal speculation and rationalisations are not evidence of anything.

If I rationalise that e.g. a team of around 20 guys could have planted explosives in some building and then blown it up, cool but that isn't evidence

That is a rationalisation. In my imagination. In my head.

I can describe how I think they did it, where it was planted, how much was used, what was used, how they got in, how they got out, how they dodged the cameras, how they covered it up, who told them to do it, etc, etc

It doesn't mean anything, it's not evidence of anything but my own imagination. It doesn't matter how "plausible" it sounds, it doesn't matter how detailed it sounds, it is completely worthless and meaningless with proper evidence

Creating a narrative in your mind here that’s untrue.

You rule out a controlled demolition based on what evidence?
What you overlook is a local failure on one floor has never resulted in a total collapse of steel-framed high rise building ever. Fact is fire never brought down a steel framed Skyscraper before 9/11 or after the event since. This is not make belief or a conspiracists opinion, its a pure fact of the real world. You ignore NIST, even admit they had to create a brand new alternative theory from thin air to explain the collapse on 9/11.

When people with a different opinion reviewed this local collapse where NIST says the event started the progressive collapse, they noticed NIST miscalculated the math in that area and even removed constructions fittings from the girder they alleged caused the progressive collapse. In what world is removing construction fittings from a girder considered genuine science?

NIST modelling a global collapse with missing fittings and they lied claiming this fittings whrere not on the drawings they had. In 2013 5 years after their study the Frankel steel construction for building seven got cleared for release and NIST lies were proved they had left 32 steel/concrete stiffeners off here, girder web plate missing and girder fasterners missing all this items stop the girder from moving off its seat laterally.

NIST modelled the failure without so they could start a fake collapse in their finite collapse model. Thats how we know the demolition theory sound when NIST faking a event that could never have happened. There denial of freefall is another sign, of their lies, they had to create another false narrative to explain that.

King Mob · 03-09-2020 1:49pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Creating a narrative in your mind here that’s untrue.

You rule out a controlled demolition based on what evidence? There denial of freefall is another sign, of their lies, they had to create another false narrative to explain that.

And again, when you've been backed into a corner on one topic you try to distract and deflect and evade to another topic.
Usually its one you've been cornered on and humiliated yourself in before.

Again, there's a reason why no other conspiracy theorists are jumping to your aid. You're making them look bad.

The Nal · 03-09-2020 2:04pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

They could carry out the entire demolition operation with 30 to 20 people.

So a conspiracy that involves hijacking 4 commercial jetliners, crashing them into skyscrapers and then doing a fly by on the Pentagon, landing somewhere else killing everyone on board while simultaneously shooting a missile into the Pentagon and detonating (somehow secret) pre planted explosives in 3 of the most secure and biggest buildings on earth....

30 people. Comedy gold.

Dohnjoe · 03-09-2020 2:50pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Creating a narrative in your mind here that’s untrue.

The "secret Nazi" narrative only exists in your head, nowhere else

You rule out a controlled demolition based on what evidence?

There's no details of it. What are the names of the guys who did this? how many were there? how much explosive was used? where was it planted?

No one can answer the most elementary questions about it, because it doesn't have any details. It's just a fantasy people have created to explain a conspiracy they think might have happened but have no details of

Cheerful Spring2 · 03-09-2020 4:06pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

The "secret Nazi" narrative only exists in your head, nowhere else

There's no details of it. What are the names of the guys who did this? how many were there? how much explosive was used? where was it planted?

No one can answer the most elementary questions about it, because it doesn't have any details. It's just a fantasy people have created to explain a conspiracy they think might have happened but have no details of

NIST had to invent a new collapse theory for a building of steel of this type (fact not disputed)

Occam’s razor doesn’t apply here for some reason.! The simplest explanation for the total collapse is controlled demolition. It’s a known method to cripple the column support, here and cause a total collapse. The NIST method stinks and never occurred before, You’re not able to wrap your mind around this fact of history..

It's similar like tactic used for JFK. They pass an unbelievable event off as a fact. Debunkers believe the one bullet found at Parkland caused numerous bone and tissue damage to two people in the presidential limo. It’s delusional view. When you read the medical evidence, this bullet that entered Kennedy back and throat magically somehow still came out the way it did, after hitting Connelly 5th rib bone and hitting the wrist bone in Connelly right hand.

WTC7 is a magic collapse passed around as science.

Cheerful Spring2 · 03-09-2020 4:31pm

The Nal wrote: »

So a conspiracy that involves hijacking 4 commercial jetliners, crashing them into skyscrapers and then doing a fly by on the Pentagon, landing somewhere else killing everyone on board while simultaneously shooting a missile into the Pentagon and detonating (somehow secret) pre planted explosives in 3 of the most secure and biggest buildings on earth....

30 people. Comedy gold.

You quoted what i said!!!
30 or some people participated in ordering, preparing and planting demolitions in New York. The 9/11 hijackers arrived in the year 2000 so they had the plan for the 9/11 attack already mapped out then. Any outside group spying on a cell would have known what they were up to years in advance. Enough time for another level group to hijack the plan and carry out their own attack.

Demolition operation is a side op that was carried out in secret.

I don't think its a next level difficulty at all to plant explosive devices in three buildings, if you own or bought off the security ahead of time. There no camera footage left behind after the collapses, any trail is long gone to follow.

Interesting stories of men in the tower drilling in rooms seven days before 9/11. The man has solid credentials. It the company he named here was there working a week before the attack, that suggests the men in the room were Israeli intelligence.. The moving company he named working at the Towers, is a front company for Mossad/ Israeli intelligence.

The Nal · 03-09-2020 4:54pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I don't think its a next level difficulty at all to plant explosive devices in three buildings, if you own or bought off the security ahead of time.

Yeah real easy to rig up the two biggest buildings in the world. 210 floors and 1 kilometer in height. lol.

Do you know how many security guards worked in those buildings?

More security guards were killed in the attacks on the Twin Towers than NYPD police officers. There was nearly 300 security guards killed in the attacks. Did they know what was happening (as they were paid off apparently) and still went to work that morning?

And the other few hundred or so who worked in the buildings were all paid off and said nothing? NYC security, private security, contract security, external security, NYPD on patrol.

And the receptionists, cleaners, shift workers. All of whom would've had to be paid off.

19 years later and not one has come forward? And not one refused to be bought off.

"Here, if we give you some money will you step aside and let us plant loads of explosives so we can take the buildings down and kill a few thousand people? By the way don't tell anyone"

And they all agreed! Hundreds of them. Hahahaha

Dohnjoe · 03-09-2020 4:59pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

NIST had to invent a new collapse theory for a building of steel of this type (fact not disputed)

Experts, proper experts, structural engineers, investigators, professionals, dozens and dozens of them examined it and found the buildings collapsed due to fire.

Another group of experts examined it and found it collapsed due to fire.

At no stage has any proper investigation into WTC 1 or 2 or 7 or the Pentagon found evidence of explosives or mini-nukes or laser beams or Holograms or anything else

On top of that, at no point has anyone provided any credible evidence to support any of the conspiracy theories

The simplest explanation for the total collapse is controlled demolition.

A secret controlled silent demolition the world has never seen coordinated with plane strikes is not the simplest explanation. It's the most complex one.

The NIST method stinks and never occurred before, You’re not able to wrap your mind around this fact of history..

A secret silent controlled demolition of skyscrapers during a terrorist attackhas never happened before

I've seen many posters attempt to explain this to you dozens of times. You inability to not understand this fallacy is not anyone's problem but your own.

It's similar like tactic used for JFK.

Here's a list of people you believe are responsible for 911

Larry Silverstein
His insurers
Saudi Princes and officials
Bush
Rumsfeld
Cheney
NORAD
CIA Mujahideen
NIST investigators
Mossad (possibly)
US military (unspecified generals)
Various unspecified businessmen
Pakistani ISI
Secret Nazi's
Joe Biden
and more..

The list of people you believe killed JFK is also long and also includes "secret Nazi's"

I'm not referring to you personally but these types of views are literally insane.

King Mob · 03-09-2020 5:00pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Occam’s razor doesn’t apply here for some reason.! The simplest explanation for the total collapse is controlled demolition.

No, occam's razor doesn't apply here as it requires two equal explanations.
There is no conspiracy explanation for anything. You guys keep running away every time you're asked for one.

Also, the simplest explanation will be "conspiracy cranks on the internet are wrong" not "there was a massive government conspiracy that used fake planes and experimental silent explosions to fake an obviously impossible collapse and attack all for no discernible reason."

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

It's similar like tactic used for JFK. They pass an unbelievable event off as a fact. Debunkers believe the one bullet found at Parkland caused numerous bone and tissue damage to two people in the presidential limo. It’s delusional view. When you read the medical evidence, this bullet that entered Kennedy back and throat magically somehow still came out the way it did, after hitting Connelly 5th rib bone and hitting the wrist bone in Connelly right hand.

WTC7 is a magic collapse passed around as science.

Lol so desperate you're trying to deflect to JFK conspiracy theories now.

Why not explain how your 9/11 conspiracy theories are just as valid as your holocaust denial? I bet other conspiracy theorists will love that.

Cheerful Spring2 · 03-09-2020 6:14pm

The Nal wrote: »

Yeah real easy to rig up the two biggest buildings in the world. 210 floors and 1 kilometer in height. lol.

Do you know how many security guards worked in those buildings?

More security guards were killed in the attacks on the Twin Towers than NYPD police officers. There was nearly 300 security guards killed in the attacks. Did they know what was happening (as they were paid off apparently) and still went to work that morning?

And the other few hundred or so who worked in the buildings were all paid off and said nothing? NYC security, private security, contract security, external security, NYPD on patrol.

And the receptionists, cleaners, shift workers. All of whom would've had to be paid off.

19 years later and not one has come forward? And not one refused to be bought off.

"Here, if we give you some money will you step aside and let us plant loads of explosives so we can take the buildings down and kill a few thousand people? By the way don't tell anyone"

And they all agreed! Hundreds of them. Hahahaha

300 security, private and contract guards? Is the towers a maximum security prison facility?! Debunkers will of course add things to the scenario to represent it as impossible to the person reading!
Provide a source for the security information?

9/11 attacks happened early in the morning first attack before 9am and its the main reason fewer people got killed inside the Towers. The security staff would only be swapping out from the night shift to morning day shift, after 8am.
Still provide a fact, a source to show 300 security personnel watched both towers for suspicious people.

The buildings are open 24 hours, seven days a weeks, and we don’t know when, the demolition crew showed up to place the devices. Still need less security needed at the weekends and at night. You only have more security for daytime to watch people who are coming and going during rush hours, places of business (daytime) and sightseeing (daytime)

You constructed a fake story here to make the demolition sound impossible.

The guy who was given a contract to move mainstream network computers to storage before the planned power shutdown on the weekend before 9/11 said the men in "blue jumpsuits" were inside a wide, large empty room. Make sense since many rooms inside the towers were left vacant and empty of material human things. It's a mistaken assumption among debunker every room had tenants and floors had a business.

He caught them on the far side of the room, drilling into the wall where the perimeter steel walls are located. The Witness is reliable.

Debunkers have not got a clue how demolitions of buildings work either. Don’t place the demolitions in 110 stories of a tower, Demolitions are only distributed in a number of floors to cripple the steel columns on that floor, gravity does must of the work when a demolition occurs. They'll be there months and months if they had to remove walls on every floor.

Fact there a new incendiary explosive found in the dust, the nanothermite, the conspirators had access to military grade materials that only the most advanced labs in the world experiment with and have today, even in 2020.

The Nal · 03-09-2020 6:20pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The security staff would only be swapping out from the night shift to morning day shift, after 8am.

Oh I didn't know you had intimate knowledge of the WTC security roster.

Please provide evidence for this. Staff rotas, documents, video footage and photos.

Cheerful Spring2 · 03-09-2020 6:22pm

The Nal wrote: »

Oh I didn't know you had intimate knowledge of the WTC security roster.

Please provide evidence for this. Staff rotas, documents, video footage and photos.

Its your claim 300 staff with security training worked there. Why should i have to support your claim here?

The Nal · 03-09-2020 6:31pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Its your claim 300 staff with security training worked there. Why should i have to support your claim here?

Nope. It's my claim that nearly 300 security died that day. There were hundreds more working there. Across 150 floors in all 3 buildings. From the garage 4 stories down to the door to the roof 100 stories up.

This is common knowledge and can be proved with a quick google.

Conspiraloons of course ignore this.

So tell us who was bribed please? How many people? And when? And which parts of each building? And please show the correlation between the areas where the security guards who were bribed and the locations where the explosives were. Which companies offices were on those floors? What were the layouts of the floors? What hours did they work? How many trips did the plotters need to make to each building? How did they transport the explosives?

Cheerful Spring2 · 03-09-2020 6:39pm

King Mob wrote: »

No, occam's razor doesn't apply here as it requires two equal explanations.
There is no conspiracy explanation for anything. You guys keep running away every time you're asked for one.

Also, the simplest explanation will be "conspiracy cranks on the internet are wrong" not "there was a massive government conspiracy that used fake planes and experimental silent explosions to fake an obviously impossible collapse and attack all for no discernible reason."

Lol so desperate you're trying to deflect to JFK conspiracy theories now.

Why not explain how your 9/11 conspiracy theories are just as valid as your holocaust denial? I bet other conspiracy theorists will love that.

These so-called experts are signing up to a new collapse scenario never seen in the history of steel framed building collapses. They are agreeing because the next step is too dark for them. They don’t want to believe men would do this and murder innocent people on 9/11. They prefer that reality of make believe fire brought down three steel framed buildings on 9/11.

Debunkers could not handle people saying there was a unidentified craft in the sky that may belong to non-humans. Since they had support from the US government at that time, they attacked believers with the same language used today when discussing events like 9/11 and JFK.

Debunkers got a shock to the system in 2017 when the US navy and Pentagon admitted their pilots are interacting with vehicles not in the US inventory. Debunkers are now claiming to know more about air defence than the military!! You know who that debunker is and his bird scenario for UFOs;)

You have confidence debunkers are right, when in reality 99 percent of time in history they are wrong. But that side you like the seat :cool:

Quoted wrong person was for Dohnjoe this!

Cheerful Spring2 · 03-09-2020 6:47pm

The Nal wrote: »

Nope. It's my claim that nearly 300 security died that day. There were hundreds more working there. Across 150 floors in all 3 buildings. From the garage 4 stories down to the door to the roof 100 stories up.

This is common knowledge and can be proved with a quick google.

Conspiraloons of course ignore this.

A paper can print information and it be false.

List the 300 names and who paid them and what business they work for inside the towers.
We go from there to verify your claim.

Cheerful Spring2 · 03-09-2020 6:57pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

A secret controlled silent demolition the world has never seen coordinated with plane strikes is not the simplest explanation. It's the most complex one.

A secret silent controlled demolition of skyscrapers during a terrorist attackhas never happened before

.

I'm not referring to you personally but these types of views are literally insane.

Scale of things people from outside rigging three buildings for demolition is possible and doable.
You have chosen the other choice of magic. A new theory was invented here to explain the collapse of building seven and you signed on. AE911 truth and others like me on the web think you guys are nuts!

Ipso · 03-09-2020 9:44pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

These so-called experts are signing up to a new collapse scenario never seen in the history of steel framed building collapses. They are agreeing because the next step is too dark for them. They don’t want to believe men would do this and murder innocent people on 9/11. They prefer that reality of make believe fire brought down three steel framed buildings on 9/11.

Debunkers could not handle people saying there was a unidentified craft in the sky that may belong to non-humans. Since they had support from the US government at that time, they attacked believers with the same language used today when discussing events like 9/11 and JFK.

Debunkers got a shock to the system in 2017 when the US navy and Pentagon admitted their pilots are interacting with vehicles not in the US inventory. Debunkers are now claiming to know more about air defence than the military!! You know who that debunker is and his bird scenario for UFOs;)

You have confidence debunkers are right, when in reality 99 percent of time in history they are wrong. But that side you like the seat :cool:

Quoted wrong person was for Dohnjoe this!

The To the stars advert for their new shows didn’t shock anyone. And debunkers have the same level of knowledge of alien craft as the UFO community (whose patience is rivaling that of rapturists), ie. none

King Mob · 03-09-2020 10:35pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

These so-called experts are signing up to a new collapse scenario never seen in the history of steel framed building collapses. They are agreeing because the next step is too dark for them. They don’t want to believe men would do this and murder innocent people on 9/11. They prefer that reality of make believe fire brought down three steel framed buildings on 9/11.

Debunkers could not handle people saying there was a unidentified craft in the sky that may belong to non-humans. Since they had support from the US government at that time, they attacked believers with the same language used today when discussing events like 9/11 and JFK.

Debunkers got a shock to the system in 2017 when the US navy and Pentagon admitted their pilots are interacting with vehicles not in the US inventory. Debunkers are now claiming to know more about air defence than the military!! You know who that debunker is and his bird scenario for UFOs;)

You have confidence debunkers are right, when in reality 99 percent of time in history they are wrong. But that side you like the seat :cool:

Quoted wrong person was for Dohnjoe this!

And now, you're trying to deflect to UFO nonsense to avoid the giant pile of points you're running away from.

Also, thought I was on ignore?
Guess that was a big old lie.

Ruby gray · 04-09-2020 12:02am

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Personal speculation and rationalisations are not evidence of anything.

If I rationalise that e.g. a team of around 20 guys could have planted explosives in some building and then blown it up, cool but that isn't evidence

That is a rationalisation. In my imagination. In my head.

I can describe how I think they did it, where it was planted, how much was used, what was used, how they got in, how they got out, how they dodged the cameras, how they covered it up, who told them to do it, etc, etc

It doesn't mean anything, it's not evidence of anything but my own imagination. It doesn't matter how "plausible" it sounds, it doesn't matter how detailed it sounds, it is completely worthless and meaningless with proper evidence

Hilarious.

You can say this when answering someone else, but not accept it from me when I say exactly the same thing about responding to your vacuous taunts based on your own personal belief bias.

Ruby gray · 04-09-2020 12:17am

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

A paper can print information and it be false.

List the 300 names and who paid them and what business they work for inside the towers.
We go from there to verify your claim.

I have been trying to get this thread back on the rails, but it is so difficult when everyone keeps diving off topic and turns it into an unwieldy free-for-all!

Can we not just stick to the TOPIC here please!

The Towers are a massive topic in their own right and only clog up this thread with yet more endless speculation.

The fact is that, uniquely at the Pentagon, and only related to Lloyde England, do we have actual evidence of the crime being committed by identifiable individuals.

Please start another thread for all discussions extraneous to the TOPIC here!

King Mob · 04-09-2020 12:26am

Ruby gray wrote: »

The fact is that, uniquely at the Pentagon, and only related to Lloyde England, do we have actual evidence of the crime being committed by identifiable individuals.
!

What crime though? You don't seem to be able to explain what happened in the conspiracy theory version of events.
And what identifiable individuals? Maybe you could at least give a ball park figure. Cheerful claims that it was all done by less than 20 people. Do you agree with him?

King Mob · 04-09-2020 9:00am

Ruby gray wrote: »

Sorry this isn't much of a response to any of the points or questions put to you.

Could you try responding to them with your own work rather than just copy pasting stuff from a conspiracy website?

The Nal · 04-09-2020 9:35am

King Mob wrote: »

Sorry this isn't much of a response to any of the points or questions put to you.

Could you try responding to them with your own work rather than just copy pasting stuff from a conspiracy website?

Just pick the witnesses that may have seen something different, easy. Defo proves a conspiracy.

Ignore all of these people though

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77pentagon.html#p3

Steve Riskus: "I was close enough (about 100 feet or so) that I could see the "American Airlines" logo on the tail as it headed towards the building"

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

AE911 truth and others like me on the web think you guys are nuts!

Thakfully, a tiny amount of people. Conspiracy "theorists" with no theories.

King Mob · 04-09-2020 10:14am

The Nal wrote: »

Just pick the witnesses that may have seen something different, easy. Defo proves a conspiracy.

Especially since the witness he posted and that one say they saw markings for two different airlines.
Ruby's witness says it was "American Airways", an airline that doesn't exist.

mikekerry · 04-09-2020 10:14am

Ruby gray wrote: »

Hilarious.

You can say this when answering someone else, but not accept it from me when I say exactly the same thing about responding to your vacuous taunts based on your own personal belief bias.

You are trying to have dialog with a couple of inexorable anti conspiracy posters who patrol this site 24/7 you are wasting your time
trying to have any sort of proper discussion it doesn't matter what case you put forward .

King Mob · 04-09-2020 10:16am

Ruby gray wrote: »

DARRELL STAFFORD
It looked like it was coming right at us ...
It was just like it barely made it over the (Navy Annex) roof ...
It started to bank to the right ...
It banked and it was kinda over the cemetery and probably crossed over Columbia Pike more on this side then.

Yup again, just posting spam from a conspiracy website.

And more vague, chopped up and cherry picked testimony for a conspiracy that doesn't make any sense and you can't actually explain.

Ruby gray · 04-09-2020 10:17am

King Mob wrote: »

Sorry this isn't much of a response to any of the points or questions put to you.

Could you try responding to them with your own work rather than just copy pasting stuff from a conspiracy website?

I am not here to dance to your tune.
I am doing this my way with or without heckling.

Most of what I write is 100% my own words, illustrated with images (many of which have never been acknowledged before), and supported wherever possible by first-person quotes from the eyewitnesses themselves, rather than 3rd-hand accounts by sensationalist journalists.

This is so much more useful than anything I have seen from you.

Bet you didn't know that OMAR CAMPO, frequently cited as an "impact eyewitness", was another ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY employee?

Who did NOT see an impact.

Apparently nobody thought to ask him whether he saw the plane fly over the roof, but as its left wing must have been higher than the trees on top of the cemetery, the plane was already high enough to soar over the 75 foot high roof, which was just 165 metres to the east.

6034073

As he was mowing the grass at the cemetery when the plane went over his head, this makes him yet another NORTHSIDE EYEWITNESS.

He is just another one of the scores of eyewitnesses who prove that the plane never flew anywhere near the bridge or those 5 lightpoles.

Campo's confirmed location also corroborates the true testimony of Lloyde England who stated that he was driving beside the cemetery retaining wall, north of the Columbia Pike exit road overhead sign, when the plane flew very close overhead, and a 12 foot x 4 inch pole smashed from a height through his windshield.

From that position, there is no way that the plane could have propelled any of those lightpoles through Lloyde's cab, nor could it have been that tiny blur seen on the infamous Gatecam video, and it could not have made the hole in the Pentagon.

King Mob · 04-09-2020 10:19am

mikekerry wrote: »

You are trying to have dialog with a couple of inexorable anti conspiracy posters who patrol this site 24/7 you are wasting your time
trying to have any sort of proper discussion it doesn't matter what case you put forward .

Again, we've outlined many points. All of which have been ignored and run away from.

We've asked multiple times for conspiracy theorists to outline and explain their theory.
This has been ignored many times.

We've explained all this witness testimony over and over again. It's always been ignored.

You guys aren't actually looking for dialogue.
All this whinging rings false.

Ruby gray · 04-09-2020 10:20am

mikekerry wrote: »

You are trying to have dialog with a couple of inexorable anti conspiracy posters who patrol this site 24/7 you are wasting your time
trying to have any sort of proper discussion it doesn't matter what case you put forward .

Thanks for the heads-up!
No worries, I do recognise the syndrome they are suffering from.

I am not trying have a discussion with them, which would of course be pointless.

I am not doing this for their benefit, but for anyone else who may be genuinely interested in hearing the latest developments on this topic, especially as we are almost at the 19th anniversary.

In fact, there are many new discoveries to be shared.

Dr. Bre · 04-09-2020 10:22am

King Mob wrote: »

Again, we've outlined many points. All of which have been ignored and run away from.

We've asked multiple times for conspiracy theorists to outline and explain their theory.
This has been ignored many times.

We've explained all this witness testimony over and over again. It's always been ignored.

You guys aren't actually looking for dialogue.
All this whinging rings false.

Conspiracy theorists will only ever have theories not the actual information your looking for as in evidence. If they had did evidence they wouldn’t be posting it on boards. You will always win the argument

King Mob · 04-09-2020 10:30am

Ruby gray wrote: »

I am not here to dance to your tune.
I am doing this my way with or without heckling.

No, you're ignoring points you can't address and hiding behind spam from conspiracy websites.

But ok, since we all agree you can't elaborate and detail the conspiracy and you can't explain why the government lied about the flight path of the plane, lets break down one of you eyewitnesses:

OMAR CAMPO
Who did NOT see an impact.

So did he say directly that the plane didn't impact? If so, provide that quote please.

Apparently nobody thought to ask him whether he saw the plane fly over the roof,

That's a bizarre claim. Why wouldn't they ask that if that's what they believe happened? Why wouldn't he mention it if it did happen?

The fact here i think is that he didn't say that the plane flew over.
And according to your logic with the impact, if he didn't say he saw it, that means it didn't happen, right?
So that's an eyewitness that proves the plane didn't fly over and away from the pentagon.

As he was mowing the grass at the cemetery when the plane went over his head, this makes him yet another NORTHSIDE EYEWITNESS.

Campo's confirmed location

Where in the cemetery? Arlington Cemetery is huge.
Who confirmed his location and how?
Is it just him saying that he was there?

Also, as I pointed out, he claimed it was an "America Airways" plane. How is this possible when no such airline exists?

Now, I suspect because you will have difficulty answering these questions you will attempt to try and deflect to another witness rather than analyse this one (which you decided to highlight.)
But that will just lead to the same issues I think.

King Mob · 04-09-2020 10:32am

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Conspiracy theorists will only ever have theories

Well that's the thing, here they are arguing the exact opposite.
Ruby has said in clear terms that he has all the evidence and he doesn't need to supply a theory.

No conspiracy theorist has been able to elaborate on their theory and explain what it is.

Ruby gray · 04-09-2020 10:39am

The Nal wrote: »

Just pick the witnesses that may have seen something different, easy. Defo proves a conspiracy.

Ignore all of these people though

https://ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77pentagon.html#p3

Steve Riskus: "I was close enough (about 100 feet or so) that I could see the "American Airlines" logo on the tail as it headed towards the building"

Apparently it is YOU doing all the ignoring of evidence here.

If you had been paying attention, you would have noticed that I have already dealt with the testimony and the location of STEVE RISKUS.

This evidence proves he was a NORTHSIDE WITNESS, who saw the plane fly across Route 27 at the level of the Columbia Pike exit road, as he confirmed on several overhead images on which he drew in his own location and the flightpath he witnessed.

This means that STEVE RISKUS absolutely demolishes your official flightpath, because a plane flying there, CANNOT hit the Pentagon at that hole hundreds of feet further south.

mikekerry · 04-09-2020 10:59am

Dr. Bre wrote: »

Conspiracy theorists will only ever have theories not the actual information your looking for as in evidence. If they had did evidence they wouldn’t be posting it on boards. You will always win the argument

The clue is in the forum name - conspiracy theories - it's a forum for people to put forward - theories ( whether they agree or not agree with the theory is a different point).

The Nal · 04-09-2020 11:04am

mikekerry wrote: »

The clue is in the forum name - conspiracy theories - it's a forum for people to put forward - theories ( whether they agree or not agree with the theory is a different point).

Theres a difference between theories and fantasy though. A line that should be adhered to.

Cheerful Spring2 · 04-09-2020 11:55am

The Nal wrote: »

Thakfully, a tiny amount of people. Conspiracy "theorists" with no theories.

Still a false take about details and facts. AE911 truth has over 3000 representatives the majority are Architects, Builders, and Engineers. Dohnjoe says 200 people worked on the NIST building seven study and even if his view true, the 3000 people involved in the same profession disagree with the NIST verdict..

Other official studies there was just a handful of people working to find a solution for the failure inside building seven.

I bet if you did a world poll, you find a lot of people disagree with the official story about 9/11. People just don’t care enough to spend their time debating their views on social media forums like the one. Still do hold personal views the official 9/11 narrative false.

Dohnjoe · 04-09-2020 11:59am

Ruby gray wrote: »

Hilarious.

You can say this when answering someone else, but not accept it from me when I say exactly the same thing about responding to your vacuous taunts based on your own personal belief bias.

You posted several photos of a damaged Pentagon, and I asked questions which you haven't addressed. To repeat:

If you maintain the flight 77 flew over the Pentagon, then what caused the damage to the Pentagon in the photos you posted? (which were taken by witnesses)

Also outstanding is the original question: How many witnesses saw the plane fly over the Pentagon?

Dohnjoe · 04-09-2020 12:05pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

AE911 truth has over 3000 representatives the majority are Architects, Builders, and Engineers. Dohnjoe says 200 people worked on the NIST building seven study and even if his view true, the 3000 people involved in the same profession disagree with the NIST verdict..

AE911 is not a recognised group, its an internet conspiracy group.

The American Institute of Architects is a recognised group, it's 90,000 members, professional architects, they have firmly distanced themselves from AE911's conspiracy views and Gage is barred from holding his conspiracy meetings in their buildings. And every year he tries to raise a vote to "re-investigate 9/11" it's heavily downvoted by them.

90,000 recognised architects is more expertise and higher numbers than 3,000 internet experts

Likewise, the American Society of Civil Engineers is over 150,000 members, they fully back the findings of the NIST

This has been repeatedly explained to you, you repeatedly regurgitate the same faulty reasoning every few months. Rinse, repeat

Dohnjoe · 04-09-2020 12:13pm

Ruby gray wrote: »

Thanks for the heads-up!
No worries, I do recognise the syndrome they are suffering from.

So you can question 9/11

But other posters can't question this alternative theory?

Cheerful Spring2 · 04-09-2020 12:18pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

AE911 is not a recognised group, its an internet conspiracy group.

The American Institute of Architects is a recognised group, it's 90,000 members, professional architects, they have firmly distanced themselves from AE911's conspiracy views and Gage is barred from holding his conspiracy meetings in their buildings. And every year he tries to raise a vote to "re-investigate 9/11" it's heavily downvoted by them.

90,000 recognised architects is more expertise and higher numbers than 3,000 internet experts

Likewise, the American Society of Civil Engineers is over 150,000 members, they fully back the findings of the NIST

This has been repeatedly explained to you, you repeatedly regurgitate the same faulty reasoning every few months. Rinse, repeat

You trying to express an argument, 90,000 members agree with this study even though the official study was only downloaded a few hundred times on the ASCE website?

Your logic has a disconnect with reality. Management may have signed onto the official narrative, but there zero evidence affirming the membership agree.
90,000 become members for work reasons its a choice of life, has nothing to do with the 9/11 conspiracy and its discussion.

Debunkers will pretend it does, to strength their argument their 90,000 people in the profession who saw the evidence and disagree with Ae911 truth. I saw this nonsense used by Mick West too, and DohnJoe pushing that narrative on here too..

Dohnjoe · 04-09-2020 12:24pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

You trying to express an argument, 90,000 members agree with this study even though the official study was only downloaded a few hundred times on the ASCE website?

Yes they do and the NIST reports have been available online for years.

Management may have signed onto the official narrative, but there zero evidence affirming the membership agree.

You aren't speaking for their members, they are. And for multiple years they've held votes with their member to re-investigate 9/11. It gets thousands of votes from AIA members.

Debunkers will pretend it does, to strength their argument their 90,000 people in the profession who saw the evidence and disagree with Ae911 truth.

AE911 is a crank and pseudo-scientific conspiracy group that makes money from people like you. The AIA and ASCE are proper, recognised groups of professionals that distance themselves from AE911's moonbat stuff

Dohnjoe · 04-09-2020 12:30pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Debunkers

If someone walks into a psychologists office and they say they believe 911 was an inside job and that they believe in UFOs - they are already being classified

I've dealt with Sandy Hook truthers, Boston marathon bombing truthers, moon landing hoaxers, 9/11 truthers - they often react in the same way, that's because they have a lot in common.

This thread is another classic example of people who become emotional and irrational because they have extreme beliefs about an event.

Cheerful Spring2 · 04-09-2020 12:42pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Yes they do and the NIST reports have been available online for years.

You aren't speaking for their members, they are. And for multiple years they've held votes with their member to re-investigate 9/11. It gets thousands of votes from AIA members.

AE911 is a crank and pseudo-scientific conspiracy group that makes money from people like you. The AIA and ASCE are proper, recognised groups of professionals that distance themselves from AE911's moonbat stuff

Stop lying you have no evidence 90,000 members of AIA and 150,000 members of ASCE agree fully with the NIST study for building seven

NIST released one Peer discussion paper about the study on the ASCE site. Only a few hundred people downloaded it to their computer. We have a good idea from that how many are looking at the NIST material.

Dohnjoe pretending the 90,000 memberS here clicked yes on a checkbox they agreed with the official building seven study.

Ae911 truth 3,000 members are affiliated with these groups AIA and ASCE and other mainstream organisations. They are people working in the profession everyday., Dohnjoe thinks they are out of work people who have no experience here, its laughable logic to believe.

Management is sending out notices to stop their members joining AE911 truth. AE911 has learned from current members, ASCE upper management told them if you talk to AE911 Truth at our conferences you will be kicked out. Desperation and bullying to protect the narrative is there. Representatives are not allowed to express what they really believe is pathetic.

Dohnjoe · 04-09-2020 12:46pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Stop lying you have no evidence 90,000 members of AIA and 150,000 members of ASCE agree fully with the NIST study for building seven

Yes I do, they support the findings and have openly distanced themselves from conspiracy theories. ASCE took part in the original FEMA study and the NIST itself.

In fact there is no recognised group of engineers, architects or related professionals in the world which maintain 9/11 was an inside job

The only group, an urecognised group, is a group of literal internet 9/11 conspiracy theorists, fancy that

Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

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