Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

SeaBreezes · 03-09-2020 12:12AM

https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/31cb8eba9d63

Fiercely interesting possibility

According to the team’s analysis, when the virus tweaks the RAS, it causes the body’s mechanisms for regulating bradykinin to go haywire. Bradykinin receptors are resensitized, and the body also stops effectively breaking down bradykinin. (ACE normally degrades bradykinin, but when the virus downregulates it, it can’t do this as effectively.)

The end result, the researchers say, is to release a bradykinin storm — a massive, runaway buildup of bradykinin in the body. According to the bradykinin hypothesis, it’s this storm that is ultimately responsible for many of Covid-19’s deadly effects. Jacobson’s team says in their paper that “the pathology of Covid-19 is likely the result of Bradykinin Storms rather than cytokine storms,”

D.Q · 03-09-2020 12:13AM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Oh I'm reading this thread too all the time, against my better judgement.

Not sure if it's great for the mental health either to be honest, although whatever your persuasion I guess venting does help deal with the situation. Just as long as we all try and keep it civil

P.S. I was delighted she got booked

Haha this board is the worst possible place to spend your time tbh.

Either side of the argument isn't helpful, everyone just screaming into the abyss.

*aware of the irony here.

03-09-2020 12:25AM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

this is a word salad

lets start from the start, why do you believe the long term effects of covid are overplayed?

Overplayed here. In the real world it’s not. Thankfully those who are tasked with assessing the impacts don’t take a single study or article and overplay its relevance without looking at the context and the wider data before coming to conclusions.

Non solum non ambulabit · 03-09-2020 12:26AM

Always_Running wrote: »

9 now but I pay little attention to suspected cases.

Correct because they are not suspected in anyway. A broken leg is not a symptom of Covid

Non solum non ambulabit · 03-09-2020 12:28AM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

"you do realise" that if we see a resurgence in covid we'll first see a resurgence in suspected covid cases?

No we won't. We will only see more cases. Suspected cases are just people entering Hospital for non Covid related issues.

mountgomery burns · 03-09-2020 12:28AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

As ACE pointed out last night, everyone in the community awaiting a result would technically be classes as a suspect case. We shouldn't mention that, or else the headlines would be reading over 10,000 suspect cases overnight.

+1 this should be referenced anytime the debate starts to resurface.

Or say if there was 100 suspected cases in hospitals with a positivity rate of just over 1% for all tests we'd expect only 1 of those cases to turnout positive.

1123heavy · 03-09-2020 12:29AM

this virus is very soon going to be revealed to be the hoax it truly is, don't get me wrong the virus does exist, but it is being manipulated by those in power for their gain and we the citizens are paying the price. There is big news yet to be made public

ACitizenErased · 03-09-2020 12:30AM

US2 wrote: »

Is South Tipp Clonmel Hospital? Wasn't aware of a covid ward up there.

South Tipp is clonmel yes, they’ve had an ICU case for about a week now

TonyMaloney · 03-09-2020 12:30AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Overplayed here. In the real world it’s not. Thankfully those who are tasked with assessing the impacts don’t take a single study or article and overplay its relevance without looking at the context and the wider data before coming to conclusions.

But you're the one that's much closer to a conclusion.

You're minimising something you freely admit you have no evidence about.

Goldengirl · 03-09-2020 12:33AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/31cb8eba9d63

Fiercely interesting possibility

According to the team’s analysis, when the virus tweaks the RAS, it causes the body’s mechanisms for regulating bradykinin to go haywire. Bradykinin receptors are resensitized, and the body also stops effectively breaking down bradykinin. (ACE normally degrades bradykinin, but when the virus downregulates it, it can’t do this as effectively.)

The end result, the researchers say, is to release a bradykinin storm — a massive, runaway buildup of bradykinin in the body. According to the bradykinin hypothesis, it’s this storm that is ultimately responsible for many of Covid-19’s deadly effects. Jacobson’s team says in their paper that “the pathology of Covid-19 is likely the result of Bradykinin Storms rather than cytokine storms,”

Good article .
ACE inhibitors like Ramipril have been shown to help protect patients with severe Covid , because they block the sites targeted on the cell by the virus and reduce some if these bradykinin effects .

AlmightyCushion · 03-09-2020 12:33AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/31cb8eba9d63

Fiercely interesting possibility

According to the team’s analysis, when the virus tweaks the RAS, it causes the body’s mechanisms for regulating bradykinin to go haywire. Bradykinin receptors are resensitized, and the body also stops effectively breaking down bradykinin. (ACE normally degrades bradykinin, but when the virus downregulates it, it can’t do this as effectively.)

The end result, the researchers say, is to release a bradykinin storm — a massive, runaway buildup of bradykinin in the body. According to the bradykinin hypothesis, it’s this storm that is ultimately responsible for many of Covid-19’s deadly effects. Jacobson’s team says in their paper that “the pathology of Covid-19 is likely the result of Bradykinin Storms rather than cytokine storms,”

quokula · 03-09-2020 12:35AM

1123heavy wrote: »

this virus is very soon going to be revealed to be the hoax it truly is, don't get me wrong the virus does exist, but it is being manipulated by those in power for their gain and we the citizens are paying the price. There is big news yet to be made public

Who are those in power and what do they gain?

drunkmonkey · 03-09-2020 12:35AM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Oh I'm reading this thread too all the time, against my better judgement.

Not sure if it's great for the mental health either to be honest, although whatever your persuasion I guess venting does help deal with the situation. Just as long as we all try and keep it civil

P.S. I was delighted she got booked

She's a nutter, has a point about RTE though they've been a national disgrace.

SeaBreezes · 03-09-2020 12:35AM

SeaBreezes wrote: »

https://elemental.medium.com/amp/p/31cb8eba9d63

Fiercely interesting possibility

According to the team’s analysis, when the virus tweaks the RAS, it causes the body’s mechanisms for regulating bradykinin to go haywire. Bradykinin receptors are resensitized, and the body also stops effectively breaking down bradykinin. (ACE normally degrades bradykinin, but when the virus downregulates it, it can’t do this as effectively.)

The end result, the researchers say, is to release a bradykinin storm — a massive, runaway buildup of bradykinin in the body. According to the bradykinin hypothesis, it’s this storm that is ultimately responsible for many of Covid-19’s deadly effects. Jacobson’s team says in their paper that “the pathology of Covid-19 is likely the result of Bradykinin Storms rather than cytokine storms,”

Theyve cracked it. Every symptom explained and treatment easily available.

Needs to be proven 'in the field' but it all aligns.
Excellent paper worth a read.

Pandemic over science wins.

.

drunkmonkey · 03-09-2020 12:38AM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Good article .
ACE inhibitors like Ramipril gave been shown to help protect patients with severe Covid , because they block the sites targeted on the cell by the virus and reduce some if these bradykinin effects .

So we're finally back to stay smoking and block up those receptors.
Can't wait until this is all over so I can quit again.

s1ippy · 03-09-2020 12:50AM

seamus wrote: »

It's not the policy to keep it secret. It's merely that there is no obligation on a school to tell the whole community about every case. There's no purpose to it. The class where the case arose will all be notified because they have to be sent home, and any other close contacts will be informed.
Nobody else is entitled to be told, no matter how much they want to bang on about their errant idea of "transparency".

There isn't a chance in hell that another confirmed case arose in a school before this one and the media didn't know about it.

The public being informed about each and every case in every school, tells the public absolutely nothing about transmission rates or the risks in schools.

That's the kind of information that public health bodies collate and calculate. You can't make informed risk assessments based on headlines and whatsapp messages.

The only reason people really want to know is because they love to gossip and to get themselves wound up.
The policy is the exact same as the meat factories. Your getting hysterical about this doesn't change that fact.

If someone working in a meat factory is a sibling of a close contact, they will likewise be sent into work.

We hear about large clusters of cases in all other settings, why on earth do you think the localities where schools have outbreaks should be kept in the dark? Bizarre.

drunkmonkey · 03-09-2020 12:57AM

s1ippy wrote: »

We hear about large clusters of cases in all other settings, why on earth do you think the localities where schools have outbreaks should be kept in the dark? Bizarre.

You don't need to cause unnecessary fear in the community and drive them into other communities.
We had a large outbreak in a nearby town so they all ended coming over here socializing and shopping as they were too afraid in their own town.
It would also freak out the old and vunrable, then you've the stigma. Plenty of reasons.

spookwoman · 03-09-2020 01:04AM

TonyMaloney wrote: »

how many suspected cases near ICU?

ICU
tonight 39 cases in hospital
Confirmed 6 / suspected 9
Deaths 0 / 0
Ventilated Confirmed 6 / Suspected 5

Last night it was
40 In hospital
ICU
Confirmed 6 /suspected 15
Deaths 0 /0
Ventilated confirmed 6 / 5

Goldengirl · 03-09-2020 01:13AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

So we're finally back to stay smoking and block up those receptors.
Can't wait until this is all over so I can quit again.

Haha, I remember that conversation!
Well spotted there , dm , not sure what the scientists would say though.

....The tar in cigarettes so entirely blocks up the respiratory alveolar tissue , effectively also preventing the bradykinin response from creating the ' hydrogel' balloon type lung , while simultaneously reducing oxygen saturation to a level that the patient does not realise is causing him as much damage ie so called happy hypoxics

maebee · 03-09-2020 01:15AM

1123heavy wrote: »

this virus is very soon going to be revealed to be the hoax it truly is, don't get me wrong the virus does exist, but it is being manipulated by those in power for their gain and we the citizens are paying the price. There is big news yet to be made public

Tell the relatives of the 1,777 of our citizens who have died of this virus, that it is a hoax:(

Do share with us the big news yet to made public.

bb1234567 · 03-09-2020 02:23AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Mentioned it earlier, the more you look at it the more it becomes obvious.

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1246046810168266753?s=20

Then we have current studies to back up the early theroy..
"Our analysis suggests that mandated BCG vaccination can be effective in the fight against COVID-19"
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/32/eabc1463?utm_campaign=SciMag&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Facebook

Correlation..Could say the same about Germany just next door which doesnt recommend and is barely seeing any increase in cases and never really had a lare wave of infection at all.

ceadaoin. · 03-09-2020 03:30AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Mentioned it earlier, the more you look at it the more it becomes obvious.

https://twitter.com/laoneill111/status/1246046810168266753?s=20

Then we have current studies to back up the early theroy..
"Our analysis suggests that mandated BCG vaccination can be effective in the fight against COVID-19"
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/32/eabc1463?utm_campaign=SciMag&utm_source=JHubbard&utm_medium=Facebook

Well that map isn't that accurate because my child was born in London in 2011 and received the BCG vaccination because its considered a high risk area for tb. Lots of people there would have this vaccination but I dont think London has had fewer deaths than other areas of the Uk? Quite the opposite.

fritzelly · 03-09-2020 03:40AM

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Well that map isn't that accurate because my child was born in London in 2011 and received the BCG vaccination because its considered a high risk area for tb. Lots of people there would have this vaccination but I dont think London has had fewer deaths than other areas of the Uk? Quite the opposite.

UK was doing the vaccine for everyone til 15 years ago (according to the NHS site) so anyone under 68 had it
And also wasn't it very selective in the administration of it in areas of Ireland - pretty sure I've read posters saying they never got it

So O'Neill going on a mad one again with no real scientific proof of anything
Plus I thought this BCG giving immunity theory was discarded months ago.

mandrake04 · 03-09-2020 06:05AM

fritzelly wrote: »

So O'Neill going on a mad one again with no real scientific proof of anything
Plus I thought this BCG giving immunity theory was discarded months ago.

Tweet was dated 3rd of April so old news

Erranged · 03-09-2020 06:36AM

I see people stepping into the road when you're approaching them on the footpath

Not the safest, I said it to someone that you really don't need to do that

drunkmonkey · 03-09-2020 07:02AM

mandrake04 wrote: »

Tweet was dated 3rd of April so old news

Look at the report I linked to underneath it, that's current. There's plenty of talk about it if you search bcg in google news in the last few weeks.

Happydays2020 · 03-09-2020 07:08AM

A mature approach in Germany where they are admitting that mistakes were made. Meanwhile only last week our Health Minister said we are on the cusp of another lockdown.

Surprise and anger over admission shops and hairdressers did not need to close
Derek Scally
Germany should not have closed shops and hairdressers in the coronavirus lockdown, its health minister has admitted, triggering demands for an inquiry into decisions taken early on in the pandemic.
Federal health minister Jens Spahn’s admission that Berlin’s lockdown was too harsh has surprised many and infuriated those hit hardest by the shutdown.
The remarks will be grist to the mill of the 40,000 people who demonstrated in Berlin at the weekend against ongoing Covid-19 restrictions as overblown.
“With the knowledge of today, I can tell you no hairdressers would have to close and no shops,” he said. “That will not happen again. We won’t need visitor bans in care homes, either.”
He said Germany could avoid a second lockdown because people had “learned in the last months how to protect ourselves”, using masks instead of closing shops and services.
Mr Spahn made his remarks on a tour of western Germany where he has been heckled at almost every stop by critics of the Merkel administration’s coronavirus policies, often following him around from town to town. At one stop Mr Spahn, who is married to a man, was spat on and called a “gay pig”.
‘Absolute truth’
The health minister said the pandemic restrictions, which began in mid-March, were never an “absolute truth” and always a “balancing between health protection, security, everyday life and freedom”.
His comments could have far-reaching legal and political consequences. During a video conference last week, chancellor Angela Merkel said there was “no dispute that the thing is tricky”.
Yesterday an 80-year-old woman from Würzburg, northern Bavaria, told the Bild tabloid how lockdown rules meant she was unable to hold her husband’s hand when he died in a care home on April 9th.
“When I hear now that I could have visited, the mourning comes over me again,” she said. “It was so hard because my husband kept demanding to see me.”
Daily infection rate
As the pandemic stretches into the autumn, the daily infection rate in Germany is down from over 6,000 at the peak to some 1,200 today. No district or county has an infection rate above the critical 10 per 100,000 population, above which tighter lockdown measures apply.
Yesterday Dr Merkel met US entrepreneur Elon Musk in Berlin. He is in town for the topping-out ceremony of a new Tesla factory east of the capital. Ahead of that, he discussed with Dr Merkel his plan for a global network of automated labs to produce and distribute Covid-19 vaccines, when available.
Meanwhile, leading German virologist, Dr Christian Drosten, a special adviser on the pandemic to Dr Merkel, has said it should possible to reduce the quarantine period for returning travellers from 14 to five days.

EDit · 03-09-2020 07:21AM

The key phrase in that article being “With the knowledge of today“. I seriously hope we don’t follow up this pandemic with years of (tax-payer) funded inquiries based on hindsight

Happydays2020 · 03-09-2020 07:30AM

EDit wrote: »

The key phrase in that article being “With the knowledge of today“. I seriously hope we don’t follow up this pandemic with years of (tax-payer) funded inquiries based on hindsight

I have no problem “with the knowledge of today” but we are not learning from that knowledge and that is the worrying aspect.

The recent increase was unnecessarily large because of complacency by the State - known risks were ignored and Visibly removing test centres and scaling back contributed to this. They have two weeks to deliver a sustainable strategic path ahead.

BobbyMalone · 03-09-2020 07:34AM

Goldengirl wrote: »

That is according to your narrative.

Here is a fact.

Most deaths occur in the 3 to 4 weeks after infection, however some cases end up through complications , revival following treatment and resurgence of complications , in ICU or hospital for weeks.

Some survive, and some unfortunately not .

So yes , there may be a few unfortunate people who will die a few months after initial infection.

Saying it is being manipulated somehow, is all in your head .

I agree with you. My issue is with the 'two-month lag' which is now being suggested by some posters. There's no evidence to suggest that there would be a two month lag from case notification to ICU/death. Going from what you say above (obviously allowing for a small number of outliers), you agree: 3/4 weeks (although I would've thought 2/3 weeks).

I'm also not suggesting that the figures are being manipulated, at least not by government officials. My comment is directed at posters suggesting a two month lag.

Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

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