Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

Boggles · 02-09-2020 10:22AM

seamus wrote: »

Now you're changing the goalposts - "significant".
If a class is closed in my child's school due to covid, I will know.

Outside of that I'm not all that interested in knowing how many in that class ultimately test positive. Not only is none of my business, but it's just gossip.

Well no, the goal post remain unchanged, you are the one adding curtains to them.

Lack of information creates a vacuum which gossips fills.

I thought we were all in this together?

seamus wrote: »

If the outbreak spreads beyond that class, the school will be closed.

If a second child tests positive in a different class the school will be closed?

Have you a link for that?

Oranage2 · 02-09-2020 10:22AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Ah but an 'expert' here suggests it's grand.

We need to keep covid as low as possible so that our already inefficient Healthcare can treat other serious illnesses. But people are getting 'bored' of this virus, they lambast people who believe this virus is still a serious issue. The selfishness of some people is astounding

Plumbthedepths · 02-09-2020 10:22AM

Boggles wrote: »

Did you actual listen to it? He agrees with what I said.

He says quite clearly the resources that are there should be prioritized for people who are symptomatic going forward through the crisis.

I listened and I provided you with the transcript. Services and screening are nowhere near where they were last year and this is going to have a negative outcome.
You seem happy to accept all the negativity regarding Covid but you wish to ignore the outcomes in situations due to Covid restrictions.
You do understand what the purpose of screening is for ? To catch the illness before a person becomes symptomatic. You ability to twist things is impressive and pathetic at the same time.

Boggles · 02-09-2020 10:26AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I listened and I provided you with the transcript. Services and screening are nowhere near where they were last year and this is going to have a negative outcome.
You seem happy to accept all the negativity regarding Covid but you wish to ignore the outcomes in situations due to Covid restrictions.
You do understand what the purpose of screening is for ? To catch the illness before a person becomes symptomatic. You ability to twist things is impressive and pathetic at the same time.

Jesus, you are the one who posted a interview from an oncologist which backed up my point?

But I am pathetic?

:pac::pac::pac:

As you were lad.

Plumbthedepths · 02-09-2020 10:29AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

We need to keep covid as low as possible so that our already inefficient Healthcare can treat other serious illnesses. But people are getting 'bored' of this virus, they lambast people who believe this virus is still a serious issue. The selfishness of some people is astounding

Feel free to find any post of mine which states the virus is not serious. In February I was as ignorant as the majority here as to how serious it is but it also fact it is not as lethal as being betrayed. There are other illnesses which are far more lethal. I was at the funeral of a friend who's cancer treatment was paused due to Covid. Would ongoing treatment have saved him, I don't know but what I do know is it would have given him a chance.
As an aside I asked you yesterday what was the case figures like where you are living? Would you like to answer it now?

Plumbthedepths · 02-09-2020 10:30AM

Boggles wrote: »

Jesus, you are the one who posted a interview from an oncologist which backed up my point?

But I am pathetic?

:pac::pac::pac:

As you were lad.

No I said your ability to twist things was impressive and pathetic at the same time.

seamus · 02-09-2020 10:31AM

Boggles wrote: »

I thought we were all in this together?

You're confusing, "Everyone needs to play their part" with, "Everyone is entitled to know everything".

You've invented your own interpretation of "transparency" and then attached that to public health policy, creating a false idea that believes you're entitled to be aware of every case of Covid that occurs in schools.

You're not.

If a second child tests positive in a different class the school will be closed?

That class will be closed. If it becomes an issue across the school, the principal or the HSE may decide to close the school completely.

The core discussion here is whether parents are entitled to know about every case. They are not.

Psychiatric Patrick · 02-09-2020 10:36AM

seamus wrote: »

You're confusing, "Everyone needs to play their part" with, "Everyone is entitled to know everything".

You've invented your own interpretation of "transparency" and then attached that to public health policy, creating a false idea that believes you're entitled to be aware of every case of Covid that occurs in schools.

You're not.

That class will be closed. If it becomes an issue across the school, the principal or the HSE may decide to close the school completely.

The core discussion here is whether parents are entitled to know about every case. They are not.

Do you mean parents don't need to told that there is a case or the details of child?

Yes to knowing every time there is a case - no to the details of the child involved.

Elmer Blooker · 02-09-2020 10:36AM

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Thanks, I needed a laugh this morning.

What's so funny about Pawinho's post? Where is all this money coming from to pay people for sitting at home in a country where we have a problem balancing the books.
Imagine the uproar and laughter if Pearse Doherty or Richard Boyd Barrett said in the General Election campaign that we will hand out €350 a week for sitting on your backsides at home.
So Jim, where is all this money coming from?

caveat emptor · 02-09-2020 10:38AM

seamus wrote: »

Now you're changing the goalposts - "significant".
If a class is closed in my child's school due to covid, I will know.

Outside of that I'm not all that interested in knowing how many in that class ultimately test positive. Not only is none of my business, but it's just gossip.

If the outbreak spreads beyond that class, the school will be closed.

Again, publishing the details of every single case in schools, serves absolutely no purpose except gossip.

People should be told what they need to know. That's it.

So you are not interested in the probability of your child getting ill? It's one thing if one child comes into class positive and passes it on to exactly zero children and it's entirely different if the child passes it on 15 other kids in the same class who then pass it on to parents / siblings and other classes get infected.

It's important so you can do a proper risk assessment. We don't have any data on this scenario which we can exercise judgement on. We don't have the probability distribution.

It's imperative that the truth be known. Otherwise it stinks of keep the plebs in the dark. I have a right to protect my child if I can. Hiding the actual risk from parents leads to a breakdown in trust.

We are no forced to go for a whack a mole scenario with our children and hope that they won't get whacked.

Psychiatric Patrick · 02-09-2020 10:39AM

Marty Bird wrote: »

Close the curtains and go back to bed.

You are not the boss of me.

I assumed the driver would ensure the required distancing but I was curious and looked it up. I couldn't find anything about seating.

big syke · 02-09-2020 10:40AM

PCros wrote: »

Where are those figures from?

Thin Air just to scare some posters here

Psychiatric Patrick · 02-09-2020 10:41AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

So you are not interested in the probability of your child getting ill? It's one thing if one child comes into class positive and passes it on to exactly zero children and it's entirely different if the child passes it on 15 other kids in the same class who then pass it on to parents / siblings and other classes get infected.

It's important so you can do a proper risk assessment. We don't have any data on this scenario which we can exercise judgement on.

It's imperative that the truth be known. Otherwise it stinks of keep the plebs in the dark. I have a right to protect my child if I can. Hiding the actual risk from parents leads to a breakdown in trust.

Are you guys talking about whether people who are infected should be named ?

It doesn't matter which child in the class brought the infection. It only matters that it happened.

Jim_Hodge · 02-09-2020 10:42AM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

What's so funny about Pawinho's post? Where is all this money coming from to pay people for sitting at home in a country where we have a problem balancing the books.
Imagine the uproar and laughter if Pearse Doherty or Richard Boyd Barrett said in the General Election campaign that we will hand out €350 a week for sitting on your backsides at home.
So Jim, where is all this money coming from?

That money creation is just a fraud for a start.
He didn't post what you're now expanding in to, Elmer.

Multipass · 02-09-2020 10:44AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How are we at 96% capacity? I know there's people in for other things but Jesus, we really won't be able to cope with this and the flu.

Probably from people attending as emergencies whose medical care has been paused due to covid, and that’s only going to get worse. This is going to be the real killer from all of this.

Boggles · 02-09-2020 10:45AM

seamus wrote: »

The core discussion here is whether parents are entitled to know about every case. They are not.

Well no, that's not up for discussion at all, it's HSE policy not to inform, test or trace when it comes to a potential outbreak in a class / school. In fact siblings of the quarantined class are free to go back in, which is bizarre considering we are told this disease will not spread but will definitely spread in the homes.

The question is, why are schools being held to a lower standard than other places?

Schools are work environments and should adhere to the exact same health and safety rules as everywhere else.

Why are schools subject to information vacuums but not a factory?

And if you are telling me that if a significant cluster was diagnosed in that class this week and your children were attending the same school you wouldn't want to know about it, I call complete pony on that.

Especially if there is siblings of that class in your childrens classes.

Not buying that I'm afraid.

Boggles · 02-09-2020 10:47AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

No I said your ability to twist things was impressive and pathetic at the same time.

Stop digging lad.

I said services had to be prioritized, you posted an interview from an oncologist who echoed the exact same thing.

You have realized your folly and have now reverted to name calling.

Give it up, above all else it's just boring.

seamus · 02-09-2020 10:49AM

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Do you mean parents don't need to told that there is a case or the details of child?

Yes to knowing every time there is a case - no to the details of the child involved.

Parents don't need to be told about every case.

They will be told if a classmate of their child has tested positive - because the class will be closed for 14 days and the close contacts will be informed and offered a test.

Beyond that there is no good reason for anyone else to know.

What justification is there for telling parents about cases that don't affect them? "Transparency" is not a reason; in this context when someone says "transparency", what they mean is, "I want to know".

stephenjmcd · 02-09-2020 10:49AM

wadacrack wrote: »

96% capacity was the number used by Cillian De Gascun last night. I'm sure he aware of the numbers than any of us on this forum. Posters here acting like I get some sort of joy out of posting that. Bit strange. Theirs a precedence for the Government implementing strict restrictions pretty quickly. I was very surprised when Laois, Kildare and Offaly were put into lockdown. The ban on people attending sports seem to come out of nowhere. Clearly their is alot of worry about the hospitals capacity to deal with any sort of surge.

Do you mind me asking why you were surprised at the 3 counties?

Their incidence was extremely high and there were multiple outbreaks in meat plants and direct provision centres. Measures were put in place to try and prevent significant community transmission.

Bar closing indoor dining though there wasn't an awful lot of strict restrictions.

As has been stated by Dr Glynn, Tipperary for example has a high incidence at the moment but restrictions aren't being considered there as public health know how and where the cases are arising. He mentioned it during a press conference last week.

manofwisdom · 02-09-2020 10:49AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Independent running an article - new restrictions loom after yesterday's case count. That statement followed up with no substance in the article.

Really do have to wonder about the level of journalism in this country.

Buried within the article then is this and its an absolute disgrace.

"BreastCheck, the national screening programme to detect breast cancer, may not return until October. The screening programme has been paused since March 16 due to the Covid-19 pandemic."

They are running another article saying we had 40 more cases of COVID-19 in hospital overnight. The Indo are getting as bad as those red label English tabloids.

caveat emptor · 02-09-2020 10:52AM

Psychiatric Patrick wrote: »

Are you guys talking about whether people who are infected should be named ?

It doesn't matter which child in the class brought the infection. It only matters that it happened.

Christ no!

We have no data. As time goes on we'll get more information as to the dynamics which will occur in schools.

Given that they won't be releasing information on how many children subsequently get infected if there is an infection in a class we can't know if it's safe.

Closing the class and making everyone quarantine for 2 weeks is the right public health call but not releasing the information as to what the blast radius of that infection ultimately was means that you cannot know if the government claims are true. It's sweeping the problem into people's homes. Not testing a class is the equivalent of sticking fingers in ears and saying la la la la. Specifically

It's safe to send kids to school
Kids don't spread it in schools
The mitigation being done in schools prevents infection spread.
Pods and bubbles work.
Teachers won't get it etc etc etc

How can we weigh the potential cost benefit of opening schools if the information is surrpressed

It takes a long time for the gov to change its mind on a decision meanwhile we could have taken our own actions to prevent spread and reduce damage.

shinzon · 02-09-2020 10:53AM

Jesus its a bit tetchy in here this morning whats happened

Shin

Bubbaclaus · 02-09-2020 10:55AM

Elmer Blooker wrote: »

What's so funny about Pawinho's post? Where is all this money coming from to pay people for sitting at home in a country where we have a problem balancing the books.
Imagine the uproar and laughter if Pearse Doherty or Richard Boyd Barrett said in the General Election campaign that we will hand out €350 a week for sitting on your backsides at home.
So Jim, where is all this money coming from?

We are borrowing vasts amount of money that we will need to pay interest on and back at some point. Saying we clearly had the money all along if we are able to provide it right now is some extreme short termism.

seamus · 02-09-2020 10:56AM

Boggles wrote: »

Well no, that's not up for discussion at all, it's HSE policy not to inform, test or trace when it comes to a potential outbreak in a class

That's incorrect.

In fact siblings of the quarantined class are free to go back in, which is bizarre considering we are told this disease will not spread but will definitely spread in the homes.

That's been SOP for six months.

The question is, why are schools being held to a lower standard than other places?

They're not.

Schools are work environments and should adhere to the exact same health and safety rules as everywhere else.

They are.

Why are schools subject to information vacuums but not a factory?

In what way does it differ? The information on specifics about factories comes from media and voluntary releases by the factories. There is no obligation to release this information and HSE doesn't do it.

TonyMaloney · 02-09-2020 10:59AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Christ no!

We have no data. As time goes on we'll get more information as to the dynamics which will occur in schools.

Given that they won't be releasing information on how many children subsequently get infected if there is an infection in a class we can't know if it's safe.

Closing the class and making everyone quarantine for 2 weeks is the right public health call but not releasing the information as to what the blast radius of that infection ultimately was means that you cannot know if the government claims are true. It's sweeping the problem into people's homes. Not testing a class is the equivalent of sticking fingers in ears and saying la la la la. Specifically
It's safe to send kids to school

Kids don't spread it in schools

The mitigation being done in schools prevents infection spread.

Pods and bubbles work.

Teachers won't get it etc etc etc

How can we weigh the potential cost benefit of opening schools if the information is surrpressed

It takes a long time for the gov to change its mind on a decision meanwhile we could have taken our own actions to prevent spread and reduce damage.

Spot on.

We can't hold them to account and we can't drive needed change if we can't know what's going on.

Boggles · 02-09-2020 11:03AM

seamus wrote: »

That's incorrect.

It's not.

The official public health approach to school outbreaks says it will not be “automatically assumed that a whole class will be deemed as close contacts”. It also says there’s “no blanket policy to test entire classes”.

Why would they be? there is no such thing as "airborne transmission".

Hector Savage · 02-09-2020 11:03AM

Jesus lads what's all the sniping about ? you are in Ireland , you're dealing with it well ...

Imagine if you lived in the 3rd world sh1thole Spain, where it's absolute carnage here and will progressively get worse and worse.

People will be dying on the streets here in a few months time.

KIP

Boggles · 02-09-2020 11:07AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

It takes a long time for the gov to change its mind on a decision meanwhile we could have taken our own actions to prevent spread and reduce damage.

Exactly, are people forgetting that the care homes had to come out and tell Doctor Tony to go fúck himself when he was lecturing to people that not visiting your granny would be mean.

There has been a lot of grand statements attached from our public health about reopening schools, some which are simply not true.

I can see why the policy might be to suppress that information if the wheels fall off the bus.

seamus · 02-09-2020 11:10AM

Boggles wrote: »

It's not.

Your quote doesn't back up your claim. You said it was "HSE policy not to inform".

That's incorrect, close contacts are informed

You also said it's "HSE policy not to ... test or trace". Which is also incorrect. The policy is the exact opposite. Close contacts will be traced and offered a test.

caveat emptor · 02-09-2020 11:13AM

seamus wrote: »

Your quote doesn't back up your claim. You said it was "HSE policy not to inform".

That's incorrect, close contacts are informed

You also said it's "HSE policy not to ... test or trace". Which is also incorrect. The policy is the exact opposite. Close contacts will be traced and offered a test.

We all know you can't swing a cat in most school rooms. The definition of close contact and pods gives a lot of room to not test people that would be tested in any other environment. The pods are on top of each other our one's school. I wouldn't feel reassured "that there is no need to test".

There are huge political ramifications to this and with the current "test and trace" criteria in schools it will take weeks to know the truth.

Test and trace in schools translates to close the class and keep kids home for two weeks and hope they don't develop a fever. We know that early intervention and isolation are key in controlling this disease.

Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

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