Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

Cheerful Spring2 · 31-08-2020 12:56pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You are stating as fact something happened that completely contradicts recorded history, multiple investigations, the evidence, other conspiracy theorists and the consensus of witnesses - mysteriously you provide almost no details of this "event", refuse to answer questions about it and most of it seems to hinge on one witness whose been relentlessly pursued by a group of amateurs determined to cast the event as a conspiracy.

It's a simple question, how many witnesses saw American Airlines Flight 77 fly over the Pentagon?

Recorded history? There’s a few seconds/moments of Pentagon security tape, 4 years after 9/11, see smoke and a blurry something in the distance that may or not be a plane? There no clear undisputed footage here of a large plane approaching the Pentagon from the southwest side.

Multiple Investigations? You obviously mean US government controlled and paid for investigations? There has been no independent body investigation of the 9/11 attack.

Witnesses- As we have noticed "you only listen to those eyewitnesses who confirmed the official story? You ignore many of the witnesses never saw a large plane on the Southwest side of the Navy Annex and if there no plane there on that side, what's the significance? Debunkers are not interesting in finding out ever,. they have no curiosity here.

Ruby has outlined his alternative scenario, but you not listening or can’t read. You claim he has outlined no details since he started posting, huh? How then could i follow his story of moving Taxi cabs and other things? Think man!

The likely current scenario and where i differ from Ruby.
My position is a plane hit the Pentagon (was it flight 77 the question?) The official story, plane was heading southwest i don't believe ( the FDR animations don't support the official Southwest story) and many eyewitnesses saw the
large plane heading Northeast to the Pentagon. Could light poles have got knocked over by a plane ( yes if the FDR height wrong?)

The unknown, is why does the 9/11 commission what so badly to place the plane coming in from a Southwest direction? What are they covering up the direction of the plane? Does the flight path mean different damage at the Pentagon and cover up of something else happened inside the walls?

The Nal · 31-08-2020 1:01pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

There no clear undisputed footage here of a large plane approaching the Pentagon from the southwest side.

Yeah but theres no clear undisputed footage of it not approaching the Pentagon from the southwest side either which means it did approach the Pentagon from the southwest side.

Ruby gray · 31-08-2020 1:11pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Am discussing the "false flag event" as per title. It's the equivalent of me wandering into a thread about a Titanic survivor, stating the ship was sunk by torpedo, then acting annoyed when people ask me about it

You are stating as fact something happened that completely contradicts recorded history, multiple investigations, the evidence, other conspiracy theorists and the consensus of witnesses - mysteriously you provide almost no details of this "event", refuse to answer questions about it and most of it seems to hinge on one witness whose been relentlessly pursued by a group of amateurs determined to cast the event as a conspiracy.

It's a simple question, how many witnesses saw American Airlines Flight 77 fly over the Pentagon?

You make many petulant demands but refuse to ever consider evidence given to you, or to respond to a reasonable question.

Cheerful Spring2 · 31-08-2020 1:12pm

The Nal wrote: »

Yeah but theres no clear undisputed footage of it not approaching the Pentagon from the southwest side either which means it did approach the Pentagon from the southwest side.

Problem the official story has, the NTSB and FAA both released animations tracking the plane flight from the airport to the Pentagon.
The 9/11 commission report says seconds before hitting the Pentagon the plane was tracking fast along the rightside of the Navy Annex above Washington Blvd.

The animations show a plane on the opposite side tracking to the left and over the top of the Navy annex heading to the Pentagon.

The plane can’t hit the Pentagon west wall, the same way, if the plane heading northeast towards the wall.. Plane can only be in one place at the time.

Ruby gray · 31-08-2020 1:15pm

I did ask this before, but nobody is interested in being helpful.

Can anyone please explain why 2 of the 3 images I successfully posted here recently, have since disappeared from their posts?

Last time I checked and went into "EDIT" or "QUOTE", the links were still in the text.

Now these have gone as well.

King Mob · 31-08-2020 1:19pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Problem the official story has, the NTSB and FAA both released animations tracking the plane flight from the airport to the Pentagon.
The 9/11 commission report says seconds before hitting the Pentagon the plane was tracking fast along the rightside of the Navy Annex above Washington Blvd.

The animations show a plane on the opposite side tracking to the left and over the top of the Navy annex heading to the Pentagon.

The plane can’t hit the Pentagon west wall, the same way, if the plane heading northeast towards the wall.. Plane can only be in one place at the time.

And again there is no conspiracy explanation for any of this.

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 1:20pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Multiple Investigations? You obviously mean US government controlled and paid for investigations?

Cool, are you claiming that all the investigations were faked?

Then, please provide credible and direct supporting evidence for that claim.

Witnesses

Witness consensus. Most witnesses confirm that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon.

There are none that describe it "flying over the Pentagon" that I'm aware of. If there are, please highlight them.

Ruby has outlined his alternative scenario, but you not listening or can’t read.

"The plane flew over the Pentagon" - what happened to the plane? why did the plane fly over? how is the damage explained? how about the physical evidence? what about all the other circumstantial evidence? what is the supporting evidence for this extraordinary event?

Noticing I am being constantly told not to question that narrative or even receive basic details about it..

My position

You position changes constantly, unlike the truth which has a habit of being consistent

The Nal · 31-08-2020 1:48pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

"The plane flew over the Pentagon" - what happened to the plane? why did the plane fly over? how is the damage explained? how about the physical evidence? what about all the other circumstantial evidence? what is the supporting evidence for this extraordinary event?

What you're asking for is evidence that Flight 77 flew at the Pentagon, at the last minute pulled up and flew away, landed somewhere else where everyone on board was murdered and disposed of while at the same time something else hit the Pentagon while a group of people ran around knocking down lamp posts and scattering plane and body parts around the lawn and in the inferno in front of hundreds of independent witnesses who didn't see them do it.

Thats basically the theory and the reason you can't get a straight answer. Because anyone who believes that should be locked up.

Cheerful Spring2 · 31-08-2020 1:53pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Cool, are you claiming that all the investigations were faked?

Then, please provide credible and direct supporting evidence for that claim.

Witness consensus. Most witnesses confirm that Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon.

There are none that describe it "flying over the Pentagon" that I'm aware of. If there are, please highlight them.

"The plane flew over the Pentagon" - what happened to the plane? why did the plane fly over? how is the damage explained? how about the physical evidence? what about all the other circumstantial evidence? what is the supporting evidence for this extraordinary event?

Noticing I am being constantly told not to question that narrative or even receive basic details about it..

You position changes constantly, unlike the truth which has a habit of being consistent

NIST definitely did not do a good job in New York and even pulled out construction pieces from the building to have the girder slip from its position between the steel 79 and 44 columns. Yes, the nasty tactics was used there to fool people into believing fire brought down building seven.

Pentagon event is every different. There was a large plane witnessed and seen here approaching the Pentagon. Eyewitnesses said the saw the large plane crash at the Pentagon, agreed. Yet how decisive is every story is on its face when must of the stories never got looked into beyond media listening and writing down their description? Some people often just want to be part of the bigger story, and make up things.

And this is problem you continue to not address in any post.
The FDR currently the only substantial physical evidence we got, a recording of the plane movements from the airport, takeoff, flight to the Pentagon. The FDR data backs up the observers who say, the saw a large plane tracking over the Navy Annex heading Northeast to the Pentagon.

There’S no physical evidence to back the 9/11 commission finding the plane was heading Southwest to the Pentagon ( Dohnjoe you decline to even acknowledge that or discuss) What do you with that information then ignore it?

My position has not changed much at all.
Three years ago i said a plane likely military one crashed at the Pentagon. At that time Pentagon attack was not something i had not looked at closely. I always thought the Plane seen came in from one direction only.
I started looking at the west wall at the Pentagon and said no possible way a commercial airliner impacted the west wall going to that way

Position i still hold today.

However where i changed my mind, is when i learned the FDR and eyewitnesse saw a large plane heading Northeast to the Pentagon. I then thought it was possible a large plane crashed at the Pentagon.You have your own version of what i thought back then, so :cool:

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 1:53pm

Ruby gray wrote: »

You make many petulant demands but refuse to ever consider evidence given to you, or to respond to a reasonable question.

I've made no petulant demands whatsoever. Have been patiently asking you basic common sense questions and elementary details of this theory. I've also pointed out glaring flaws in this theory.

So far you avoid the questions, you generally avoid providing details, you don't address the flaws, you haven't provided any credible evidence, you repeatedly stated you don't want to discuss your theory

The whole thing seems to be almost entirely extrapolated from one unreliable witness. No one determines such a scenario from one unreliable witness when there are over 100 witnesses available. Certainly not when there's a consensus on what happened.

And if you are going to go through each witness and claim they didn't see what they saw. That's nonsensical. And if you are going to do that in order to back what you perceive from one unreliable witness - that makes even less sense.

Keep in mind, you're basically claiming that history is wrong on this, that all the investigations were wrong - therefore your theory must have some really mind-blowingly strong evidence to contradict all that..

however all you are really doing here is demonstrating how vague and vapid this theory is.

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 1:55pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Pentagon event is every different.

We know what happened at the Pentagon, it's not a mystery.

Unless you care to explain what really happened, but that seems impossible because you jump from one theory to the next..

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 2:12pm

The Nal wrote: »

What you're asking for is evidence that Flight 77 flew at the Pentagon, at the last minute pulled up and flew away, landed somewhere else where everyone on board was murdered and disposed of while at the same time something else hit the Pentagon while a group of people ran around knocking down lamp posts and scattering plane and body parts around the lawn and in the inferno in front of hundreds of independent witnesses who didn't see them do it.

Thats basically the theory and the reason you can't get a straight answer. Because anyone who believes that should be locked up.

Apparently conspiracy theories can't be questioned here, only the "official story".

King Mob · 31-08-2020 2:21pm

The Nal wrote: »

What you're asking for is evidence that Flight 77 flew at the Pentagon, at the last minute pulled up and flew away, landed somewhere else where everyone on board was murdered and disposed of while at the same time something else hit the Pentagon while a group of people ran around knocking down lamp posts and scattering plane and body parts around the lawn and in the inferno in front of hundreds of independent witnesses who didn't see them do it.

And then all of this was cracked because in the course of all that, then ****ed up the flight recorder data. Or they did fake the data, only the pilot messed up and came in at the wrong angle.
Also they couldn't use the same kind of plane to crash into the pentagon instead of the real one. So they had to use a missile or a military plane, which was fine cause they didn't care that much. But then they also did, cause Cheerful previously claimed they partly painted the military plane to make it look like the real plane.
Also they decided to do this is a way that was impossible for a pilot to do and on top of that, they decided to pick the one terrorist they had who was a terrible pilot and had that much on the record.

The reason why conspiracy theorists don't want to actually put forward their theories is that they know they're childish and silly and can't stand up to a basic level of questioning.

Cheerful Spring2 · 31-08-2020 2:22pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

We know what happened at the Pentagon, it's not a mystery.

Unless you care to explain what really happened, but that seems impossible because you jump from one theory to the next..

The mystery there if you're concerned, but that's doubtful knowing you..
The US government says the plane flying Southwest towards the Pentagon, just seconds before crashing.
The FDR data shows plus multiple eyewitnesses on video say no thats not right, i saw the large plane flying Northeast towards the Pentagon building.

There opposition viewpoints and only one can be right here. Again a point so far not registered yet for some.

The US government had access to the same FDR data conspiracy people have, but they are claiming a southwest approach for the plane in the official report?

If you of Ruby mindset they are covering up the fact the lightpoles is a staged event (to what end is the question?)
The southwest plane is knocking over the 5 lightpoles in a clear pattern.
The lightpole pattern is less certain if the plane heading northeast to crash at the Pentagon.

Debunkers seem to blame conspiracy theorists for the confusion when its not them who released flight 77 CRS files online. NTSB was asked to address this in phone calls and they said they couldn't due to protections and security of information.

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 2:28pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The mystery there if you're concerned,

In your case, you deny the event in order to insert your theory that secret Nazi's were behind 9/11..

Cool, let's start with their names and how they were involved, who was specifically involved with the Pentagon?

Cheerful Spring2 · 31-08-2020 2:33pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

In your case, you deny the event in order to insert your theory that secret Nazi's were behind 9/11..

Cool, let's start with their names and how they were involved, who was specifically involved with the Pentagon?

Is this a real FAA/ Norad animation or not? Do you deny this is Flight 77 over the top of the Navy Annex?

What direction is the plane heading in this animation- northeast or southwest?

King Mob · 31-08-2020 2:40pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

The mystery there if you're concerned, but that's doubtful knowing you..
The US government says the plane flying Southwest towards the Pentagon, just seconds before crashing.
The FDR data shows plus multiple eyewitnesses on video say no thats not right, i saw the large plane flying Northeast towards the Pentagon building.

Just for reference, this is what Cheerful is now claiming.

Annotation 2020-08-31 223900.png

I don't think he knows what southwest and northeast mean...

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 3:28pm

King Mob wrote: »

Just for reference, this is what Cheerful is now claiming.

Annotation 2020-08-31 223900.png

I don't think he knows what southwest and northeast mean...

I know exactly what is being done here, trying to inject doubt using casual witness observations vs exact flight paths vs animations in order to find any discrepancies, regardless of context, in order to go "aha, look, discrepancy, ergo <insert conspiracy theory>

This is conspiracy theory 101

Something that can't be explained = conspiracy
Discrepancy = conspiracy
Any doubt = conspiracy

This type of backward thinking mainly occurs on conspiracy theory forums, which is why nonsense debates like this go on and on

Simple solution: Describe the actual conspiracy theory, support it with evidence, see if it withstands the same scrutiny as the established version of events

Problem: None of them stand up to any scrutiny

Conclusion: There are no credible alternative theories

King Mob · 31-08-2020 3:53pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

I know exactly what is being done here, trying to inject doubt using casual witness observations vs exact flight paths vs animations in order to find any discrepancies, regardless of context, in order to go "aha, look, discrepancy, ergo <insert conspiracy theory>

And I think in cheerful's case, it's a lot of willful misunderstandings of terms to try and fit into the conspiracy theory.

At some point he confused the terms "southwest of" and "heading southwest" and having no understanding of what either means, just ran with it.

So now to explain to him "why the government said the plane was heading south west" we have to unpack his mistake and explain it to him like a child. We literally have to explain compass directions to him.
And the entire time he will steadfastly refuse to accept that he might have gotten terms wrong, all the way up until claiming wikipedia and all it's references are wrong or part of the conspiracy.

enno99 · 31-08-2020 4:39pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

In your case, you deny the event in order to insert your theory that secret Nazi's were behind 9/11..

Cool, let's start with their names and how they were involved, who was specifically involved with the Pentagon?

LOL

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 4:41pm

King Mob wrote: »

And I think in cheerful's case, it's a lot of willful misunderstandings of terms to try and fit into the conspiracy theory.

At some point he confused the terms "southwest of" and "heading southwest" and having no understanding of what either means, just ran with it.

So now to explain to him "why the government said the plane was heading south west" we have to unpack his mistake and explain it to him like a child. We literally have to explain compass directions to him.
And the entire time he will steadfastly refuse to accept that he might have gotten terms wrong, all the way up until claiming wikipedia and all it's references are wrong or part of the conspiracy.

Yup, in a nutshell it's this

But worse, because a conspiracy theory is then used to fill the void of ignorance. A theory that is often so nonsensical and vague the poster can't even explain it

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 4:44pm

enno99 wrote: »

LOL

Not kidding, this is some who is openly a Holocaust denier but thinks literal "secret Nazi's" were behind 9/11.

And the Jews (Silverstein and Mossad), and the Saudis (Royals).. and Joe Biden for some reason

enno99 · 31-08-2020 4:57pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Not kidding, this is some who is openly a Holocaust denier but thinks literal "secret Nazi's" were behind 9/11.

And the Jews (Silverstein and Mossad), and the Saudis (Royals).. and Joe Biden for some reason

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html

King Mob · 31-08-2020 5:01pm

enno99 wrote: »

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html

But Cheerful is a holocaust denier. He's proud of that fact.
He does believe that secret nazis were behind 9/11. He's stated that many times.

You can keep spamming that link around, but I don't think you understand what it says...

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 5:21pm

enno99 wrote: »

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html

Lol, this isn't adnazium or "Godwin's Law". Cheerful literally believes "secret Nazi's", actual Nazi's originally from Germany and their descendants were behind 9/11, as in they planned the attacks in the US, in 2001.

Cheerful Spring2 · 31-08-2020 5:39pm

enno99 wrote: »

http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adnazium.html

Debunkers have the same opinion for all conspiracies, you see the psyche in every thread.. Calling me a holocaust denier? These same people are continually promoting censorship of people's opinions on threads. They don’t have any self reflection and notice and see their own personality, much more in line with Nazism here.. .
I killed no Jewish person in my life and was not born in those times, so it's just bait and waffle for me. They now attempting to derail as you see:)

They do not allow people to question events that what they are truly what to quash out here!

I outlined what happened on 9/11- the Saudis, Pakistan, Muslim brotherhood, likely funded the 9/11 plane operation- Al Qaeda network is a myth.

Demolitions- There suspects: Mossad and neoconservative faction did it, or Pre War Nazis/criminal group was involved ( Dohnjoe think does not exist) yet the Israeli Mossad was trackiing down Nazis war criminals throughout South America many decades after WW2- Operation paperclip and other operations are a myth for him. Learn about the Nazis in South American you see the created a mini third reich in some countries in South America.. Of course this is not in history books Dohnjoe reads so its silliness and stupdity.. There more to the Nazi/9/11link, but the mind of Dohnjoe closed down to new information.

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 5:45pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

They don’t have any self reflection and notice and see their own personality, much more in line with Nazism here.. .

Enno99, care to point out what this is?

Dohnjoe · 31-08-2020 5:47pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Demolitions- There suspects: Mossad and neoconservative faction did it, or Pre War Nazis/criminal group was involved ( Dohnjoe think does not exist) yet the Israeli Mossad was trackiing down Nazis war criminals throughout South America many decades after WW2- Operation paperclip and other operations are a myth for him. Learn about the Nazis in South American you see the created a mini third reich in some countries in South America.. Of course this is not in history books Dohnjoe reads so its silliness and stupdity.. There more to the Nazi/9/11link, but the mind of Dohnjoe closed down to new information.[

Despite how much you may think they are, your rationalisations and imaginings are not information

World events and history are independent of your personal imagination, I've tried to explain this to you many times

enno99 · 31-08-2020 5:50pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Debunkers have the same opinion for all conspiracies, you see the psyche in every thread.. Calling me a holocaust denier? These same people are continually promoting censorship of people's opinions on threads. They don’t have any self reflection and notice and see their own personality, much more in line with Nazism here.. .
I killed no Jewish person in my life and was not born in those times, so it's just bait and waffle for me. They now attempting to derail as you see:)

They do not allow people to question events that what they are truly what to quash out here!

I outlined what happened on 9/11- the Saudis, Pakistan, Muslim brotherhood, likely funded the 9/11 plane operation- Al Qaeda network is a myth.

Demolitions- There suspects: Mossad and neoconservative faction did it, or Pre War Nazis/criminal group was involved ( Dohnjoe think does not exist) yet the Israeli Mossad was trackiing down Nazis war criminals throughout South America many decades after WW2- Operation paperclip and other operations are a myth for him. Learn about the Nazis in South American you see the created a mini third reich in some countries in South America.. Of course this is not in history books Dohnjoe reads so its silliness and stupdity.. There more to the Nazi/9/11link, but the mind of Dohnjoe closed down to new information.

LOL yea i have seen them in action

BS like how many Antisemites believe what you believe

Cheerful Spring2 · 31-08-2020 5:50pm

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Enno99, care to point out what this is?

You and friends in multiple threads advocate censorship and the crushing of anything that disputes the official line. You probably deny that

Jewish holocaust survivors said.

Once they succeeded in ending democracy and turning Germany into a one-party dictatorship, the Nazis orchestrated a massive propaganda campaign to win the loyalty and cooperation of Germans. The Nazi Propaganda Ministry, directed by Dr. Joseph Goebbels, took control of all forms of communication in Germany: newspapers, magazines, books, public meetings, and rallies, art, music, movies, and radio. Viewpoints in any way threatening to Nazi beliefs or to the regime were censored or eliminated from all media.

Conspiracies like 9/11 threaten the status quo, but you jump for joy when google, Facebook, and YouTube remove articles and video. You are a regime follower!

Lloyd England exposed was involved in 9/11 false flag event

Comments