Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

Charles Babbage · 31-08-2020 10:24AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Just rewatched the RTÉ news from earlier...I cannot believe what I’ve just witnessed. A solicitor is given airtime encouraging people to take a ‘civil’ case if they contract Covid from a house gathering. Is this what Leo Varadkar was alluding to on Friday?
1. They’ve taken away many social outlets except restaurants, and kept any that are open so full of restrictive practises, it discouraged people to see their friends/families/loved ones.
2. They’ve banned people going to watch sports.
3. They’ve kept pubs closed and then fuelled ‘outrage’ about young people dancing in the street in Killarney having fun on a Saturday night.
4. They’re now encouraging people to sue thy neighbour?!

This is not normal behaviour for a government or health officials. Things seems to be taking a more serious turn as the population being to wake up to the farce this current situation is...anyone else feel like they’re living in never ending nightmare?
How could any politician / medical official sleep at night looking at the current data, and suggest destroying the fabric of our precious society & communities by encouraging social media outrage, suing each other & ‘blaming’ each other if someone gets Covid.

The amount of excess deaths from these continuing measures, bankrupting our state, and destroying the population’s mental health+society will be staggering and is completely avoidable.

It is the job of health officials and government to promote health and we are grateful for their efforts. The ability to sue could also apply to other premises who were disregarding the regulations and caused someone to get the virus.

However, I would be interested in knowing how it is "completely avoidable" given that there is is global pandemic. Putting your head in the sand and pretending this is not the case is not a solution even if we'd all like rid of the thing.

Assetbacked · 31-08-2020 10:26AM

It's reassuring that the video has 19 likes and 1.9k dislikes.

Scally, McConckey, O'Neil, Kingston Mills have all come across as tinfoil hat wearing nutjobs and the media are enjoying the clickbait (that's all they offer) articles due to traffic created. That is literally the only reason covid has any prominence in public conscience anymore; media clickbaiting.

paw patrol · 31-08-2020 10:40AM

MadYaker wrote: »

Other countries are doing similar. I’m not sure how useful it would be at the moment because testing is too slow. It would allow much freer movement though and we could roll back on restrictions if everyone used it but it’ll never happen. Too many conspiracy theorists.

hopefully it'll never be rolled out.

The notion that the "app says no" means you are excluded from society and services is really frightening and bizarre.
We managed to survive this long without knowing each others details....
It's worrying that any citizen would support this.

Assetbacked · 31-08-2020 10:49AM

https://www.thejournal.ie/new-zealand-auckland-lockdown-5191055-Aug2020

NZ basically accepting that lockdown only delays covid and isn't sustainable as cases which can't be traced are continuously rising but they are just going to introduce lighter restrictions instead. The article also mistakenly refers to NZ seeking to avoid a second wave but the whole point of the NZ approach was to avoid a first wave so we will see in time that all it did was delay its first wave.

I'd still like to know why we don't hear about Italy, UK and New York every day in the media anymore. These are supposed to be the examples of what not to do, yet they are barely mentioned anymore. I wonder why.

CalamariFritti · 31-08-2020 10:54AM

paw patrol wrote: »

hopefully it'll never be rolled out.

The notion that the "app says no" means you are excluded from society and services is really frightening and bizarre.
We managed to survive this long with knowing each others details....
It's worrying that any citizen would support this.

Black Mirror stuff.

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 11:06AM

when the tide goes out you see who isn't wearing any shorts.....black lives matter shortly followed by covid have shown the media up for the destructive force for negativity that they are. They are doing more to divide us than keep us together . The truth hasn't mattered for a long time.

Journalism as a respected profession seems to be a thing of the past.

There is no correlation between the numbers and the narrative. its propaganda now.

GocRh · 31-08-2020 11:08AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

I'd still like to know why we don't hear about Italy, UK and New York every day in the media anymore. These are supposed to be the examples of what not to do, yet they are barely mentioned anymore. I wonder why.

Not sure about NY, but Italy and the UK have been doing quite well. Lower cases per 100k than Ireland.

NI now have more cases than the Republic, and very few associated to travel even though NI has allowed travel to much of Europe.

Irish media seems to be slowly accepting that lockdowns and complete travel restrictions do not work. We're slow learners as that's been the policy in most of Europe for months now.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/north-s-coronavirus-infection-rate-significantly-higher-than-republic-s-1.4342314

3xh · 31-08-2020 11:49AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I cannot believe Prof Luke O’Neil is on Newstalk standing over and promoting this:
Health Passport Ireland - saying it should be rolled out in nursing homes, schools, healthcare settings, etc.

https://youtu.be/U88ZKJhztiM

I had to grind my teeth to get through those 2 minutes. What an absolute freak show. All that lovely corporate music, eye-soothing graphics and reassuring narration just to allay fears that they won’t lose your info to hackers or allow mission creep to take hold of the program in time.

Why would ‘Health Passport Ireland’ admit that your negative test result will naturally expire, changing it to amber, without saying how long that period is?

Kite-flying on steroids. Reel it in lads, whoever you are.

Assetbacked · 31-08-2020 11:53AM

Luke O'Neill has been banging the covid drum the past few months in order to get this vanity project off the ground, it is a great justification for those of us who have called him a spoofer for months to now see he had this vested interest all along to try to set up this business/project/hobby.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 31-08-2020 11:53AM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Just rewatched the RTÉ news from earlier...I cannot believe what I’ve just witnessed. A solicitor is given airtime encouraging people to take a ‘civil’ case if they contract Covid from a house gathering. Is this what Leo Varadkar was alluding to on Friday?
1. They’ve taken away many social outlets except restaurants, and kept any that are open so full of restrictive practises, it discouraged people to see their friends/families/loved ones.
2. They’ve banned people going to watch sports.
3. They’ve kept pubs closed and then fuelled ‘outrage’ about young people dancing in the street in Killarney having fun on a Saturday night.
4. They’re now encouraging people to sue thy neighbour?!

This is not normal behaviour for a government or health officials. Things seems to be taking a more serious turn as the population being to wake up to the farce this current situation is...anyone else feel like they’re living in never ending nightmare?
How could any politician / medical official sleep at night looking at the current data, and suggest destroying the fabric of our precious society & communities by encouraging social media outrage, suing each other & ‘blaming’ each other if someone gets Covid.

The amount of excess deaths from these continuing measures, bankrupting our state, and destroying the population’s mental health+society will be staggering and is completely avoidable.

Add this to the news the CDC quietly slipped out there a few days ago that 94% of Covid-19 deaths had underlying health conditions. They said only 6% of the 153,504 deaths are related to Covid-19 only. The other 94% on average had 2+ pre-existing conditions or causes per death. 60% of all deaths were over 75 years old.

Scam.

Assetbacked · 31-08-2020 11:54AM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Add this to the news the CDC quietly slipped out there a few days ago that 94% of Covid-19 deaths had underlying health conditions. They said only 6% of the 153,504 deaths are related to Covid-19 only. The other 94% on average had 2+ pre-existing conditions or causes per death. 60% of all deaths were over 75 years old.

Scam.

Do you have a source for that? Would be great to have it to hand when the moles pop up again to try to peddle the covid fear narrative.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 31-08-2020 11:57AM

paw patrol wrote: »

hopefully it'll never be rolled out.

The notion that the "app says no" means you are excluded from society and services is really frightening and bizarre.
We managed to survive this long with knowing each others details....
It's worrying that any citizen would support this.

I'm glad other people are starting to realise what all of this means... I felt like I've been all alone here for 6 months. This health passport idea is there in black and white for all to see on the EU website, point it out to someone and tell them the implications this will have on their travel, welfare, job, going into a shop and they don't want to hear it and I end up being called a tinfoil hat wearer. This is real and it's coming.

31-08-2020 12:00PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

I'm glad other people are starting to realise what all of this means... I felt like I've been all alone here for 6 months. This health passport idea is there in black and white for all to see on the EU website, point it out to someone and tell them the implications this will have on their travel, welfare, job, going into a shop and they don't want to hear it and I end up being called a tinfoil hat wearer. This is real and it's coming.

COVID party here we come!

Nermal · 31-08-2020 12:07PM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

Look harder. I got these numbers from the Spanish Government website Covid reports.

The IFR of coronavirus (COVID-19) in Spain as of May 22, 2020 for the over 70s was 19.3%

The detected infections in Spain from 10 May to 20 August for the same age group are as follows

14,531 infected were over 70 years of age and sadly 501 died.

That then gives us an IFR 3.4%

So old people are still getting this virus but the IFR has reduced to 1/5 of what it was in March/April.

Looking the IFR for the younger 60-70 year old demographic during the first wave up to May was 5%.

Since May the IFR for the exact same age group is 0.4%. 10,021 infections. Thats a tenfold decrease outside of typical care home age demographic.

SOURCE:

https://www.isciii.es/QueHacemos/Servicios/VigilanciaSaludPublicaRENAVE/EnfermedadesTransmisibles/Documents/INFORMES/Informes%20COVID-19/Informe%20n%C2%BA%2040.Situaci%C3%B3n%20de%20COVID-19%20en%20Espa%C3%B1a%20a%2020%20de%20agosto%20de%202020.pdf

You're quoting CFR there, not IFR.

CFR will vary hugely depending on who gets tested, which obviously changed massively over that period.

They aren't really valid comparisons.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 31-08-2020 12:19PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Do you have a source for that? Would be great to have it to hand when the moles pop up again to try to peddle the covid fear narrative.

Yes I do from the CDC website.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

You can dig deeper if you download the stats.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 31-08-2020 12:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

COVID party here we come!

Lets not go that far!

brisan · 31-08-2020 01:00PM

give it a month with schools and Universities both open (Mid October ) and we will see a spike in cases and we will either have more regional lock downs or a 1 month national lock down
Our Health service is not capable of dealing with another surge and the usual winter cold and flu season
At the end of the day the priority has always been protecting the HSE from being over run

yosemitesam1 · 31-08-2020 01:14PM

Has testing capacity been ramped up more for the winter.
If we're actually going to be able to test a large proportion of cases we will need multiples of that through the winter.
Wouldn't be long showing us that covid was very mild if testing capacity is put in to meet this

brisan · 31-08-2020 01:16PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Has testing capacity been ramped up more for the winter.
If we're actually going to be able to test a large proportion of cases we will need multiples of that through the winter.
Wouldn't be long showing us that covid was very mild if testing capacity is put in to meet this

Covid may be mild to one person and deadly to the next
If only the mildly affected got Covid it would not be an issue ,problem is there are too many at risk groups to keep them all isolated

Strumms · 31-08-2020 01:26PM

yosemitesam1 wrote: »

Has testing capacity been ramped up more for the winter.
If we're actually going to be able to test a large proportion of cases we will need multiples of that through the winter.
Wouldn't be long showing us that covid was very mild if testing capacity is put in to meet this

There is nothing ‘mild’ about a virus, that previously never harmed people.. nothing per say was known about it, then in months, infected over 28.1 million people worldwide, killing over 844,000.

paw patrol · 31-08-2020 01:38PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Yes I do from the CDC website.

https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

You can dig deeper if you download the stats.

reading that too , the absolute scandal of this.
considering the cost of the whole thing

I don't think incompetence can explain this

drunkmonkey · 31-08-2020 01:41PM

Strumms wrote: »

There is nothing ‘mild’ about a virus, that previously never harmed people.. nothing per say was known about it, then in months, infected over 28.1 million people worldwide, killing over 844,000.

1.3 million people die on the roads every year, numbers look big you posted but there not really in the grand scheme of things.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 31-08-2020 01:47PM

Not a single Irish media outlet has picked it up either. It’s the biggest scam the world has ever seen and we’re still pretending this is real.

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 01:59PM

It's the only metric we live and die by now.

Covid must get to zero before they focus on anything else be it economy, cancers, diabetes or suicide.

Never seen tunnel vision like it.

When we locked down in April I thought it was 100% the right thing to do. Lets take two or three weeks and see the lay of the land. The media ramped up broadcasting images of doctors with mask marks on their faces after long shifts and showed army trucks lifting bodies in Italy. It was 2020's equivalent of the syrian boy face down on the beach. Evocative and intentionally emotive . They are not broadcasting images of doctors scratching their arses in empty hospitals now though..funny that.

Looking at the numbers now and looking at what has happened to society and the economy its clear to me the juice wasn't worth the squeeze.

Multipass · 31-08-2020 02:00PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I cannot believe Prof Luke O’Neil is on Newstalk standing over and promoting this:
Health Passport Ireland - saying it should be rolled out in nursing homes, schools, healthcare settings, etc.

https://youtu.be/U88ZKJhztiM

Just watched that, and the fear that creates in me far outweighs any fear I’ve ever had of covid. It’s horrific.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 31-08-2020 02:10PM

Multipass wrote: »

Just watched that, and the fear that creates in me far outweighs any fear I’ve ever had of covid. It’s horrific.

Want to travel?
Want a job?
Want to avail of social welfare?
Want to go to a concert?
Want to go to a supermarket?

Show us your health passport.

This was the plan all along.

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 02:16PM

MadYaker wrote: »

You got some statistics to back that up? I can't find any.

Unfortunately this is a unique situation that requires us to try and predict the future and act accordingly. So far we've done ok but a lot of people have hard time getting their heads around it.

if we take what you're saying at face value, how long due you think its fair for society to wait to go back to normal if numbers stay as they are? 6 more months? a year? until vaccine?

ShyMets · 31-08-2020 02:20PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Want to travel?
Want a job?
Want to avail of social welfare?
Want to go to a concert?
Want to go to a supermarket?

Show us your health passport.

This was the plan all along.

I agree. Such a prospect is truly appalling. But I can think of a few posters on this forum who are probably salivating at the thought

prunudo · 31-08-2020 02:25PM

Hunky Monster wrote: »

Want to travel?
Want a job?
Want to avail of social welfare?
Want to go to a concert?
Want to go to a supermarket?

Show us your health passport.

This was the plan all along.

Not sure if it was the plan all along and I don't believe covid as an illness is a hoax but there are certainly people with power and sway using the pandemic to push alteriure motives. Cashless society being another one.

hmmm · 31-08-2020 02:26PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Other countries are doing similar. I’m not sure how useful it would be at the moment because testing is too slow. It would allow much freer movement though and we could roll back on restrictions if everyone used it but it’ll never happen. Too many conspiracy theorists.

It could be useful to help lift restrictions in certain circumstances. I think we can definitely expect to see some sort of "vaccination cert" next year - at the very least certain countries will only allow vaccinated people to enter (similar to how the Yellow fever vaccination is required to enter certain countries now). Whether a "testing cert" would be as useful is perhaps a bit debatable.

It is possible also that the government could allow businesses which only admit vaccinated (passport) people to get rid of social distancing and mask requirements - a lot of business would jump at this opportunity. Vaccines are likely to roll out slowly as they are manufactured, so this won't happen overnight, but why should businesses have to suffer in order to cater for the minority who refuse the vaccine? We need to relax restrictions, not maintain them to cater for the choices of a small group.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings