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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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Comments

  • #5372
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,061 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    This is why were coming back with over 99% negative tests, this seems like an overreaction, fever, snuffles, sore throat. I'd give it 48hrs, this is way to early to panic.


  • #5373
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    This is why were coming back with over 99% negative tests, this seems like an overreaction, fever, snuffles, sore throat. I'd give it 48hrs, this is way to early to panic.

    What is why. A sick child you don't even know displaying two of the signs of COVID? No one is panicking, ffs. And it's 98% that are negative. Keeping in mind a number of tests have faulty results and still others could be too early in the process to register on the test. That's why the HSE officially recommends isolation for 14 days still and two negative tests.

    My cousin had it (still recovering) and tested negative the first time. Symptoms got worse, second test came positive.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/if-you-have-a-negative-covid-19-test-quarantine-5185690-Aug2020/


  • #5374
    Gentleman Off The Pitch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭Gentleman Off The Pitch


    khalessi wrote: »
    I think you are right but I think it is deliberate to prove they opened the schools and kept them open, why else not have social distancing in class or on the bus, or inform parents of an infection in class, or send a child home with mild symptoms, or not tell of a postive case to staff or parents.
    All very very strange.

    The political will and the will of the public was that the schools had to open no matter what, for the sake of the children's education, their social skills and I think a large part of it was that the public in general just crave normality at this stage, they want routine and schools being open is a huge part of that.

    Of course this left little room for discussion about the best ways in which this could be achieved and it appears from the NPHET/DOE perspective, the approach taken was to appear to be doing whatever they can, despite being fully in the knowledge that the guidelines that have applied to most of the workplaces in Ireland up that point could not be achieved.

    Teachers of course, face the typical slurs whenever they try to highlight problems, but fair play to them, they have got on with it and in reality have put their health and their families health on the line (1. like many other front line workers have 2. I'm not a teacher by the way).

    I'm not sure how it'll go over all but summer 2021 seems a long way away, and you'd have to selfishly hope that if and when it comes to your local school, a sufficient number of schools have already had to deal with it to allow procedures and best practices to be established by that time.


  • #5375
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,713 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    GP won't entertain you, any sympton and it's a test. You'll see how farcical the whole thing is if one of the kids is sent home for sneezing etc. You'll know it's not covid but if you call the doctor it will result in a test, you'll have to assume you all have it at that stage. Were testing way too may when 99% of tests are coming back negative.

    You are a disgrace of a poster, were you helping Gemma Doherty putting up banners yesterday, you would fit right in. You are opening admitting to breaking regulations, you mock and deny the advice of experts on things like masks and the need for flu vaccine, you actually want to see people acting normal when no one should be acting normal at the moment. I could go on and on.

    The schools shouldn’t be open but any hope we have of containing the virus with them open is gone if people act like you.

    Saying we are doing too much testing? Brain dead stuff.

    To top it off actively encouraging people not to go to a gp and tut they shouldn’t get their child with symptoms tested. If I posted what I think of that I’d be perma banned.


  • #5376
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Answered in quotes
    Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »
    The political will and the will of the public was that the schools had to open no matter what, for the sake of the children's education, their social skills and I think a large part of it was that the public in general just crave normality at this stage, they want routine and schools being open is a huge part of that.

    Of course this left little room for discussion about the best ways in which this could be achieved and it appears from the NPHET/DOE perspective, the approach taken was to appear to be doing whatever they can, despite being fully in the knowledge that the guidelines that have applied to most of the workplaces in Ireland up that point could not be achieved.

    I disagree that they could not have acheived the guidelines. They could have been acheived. The roadmap to reopening the country that was announced by previous government stated that in phase 5 a phased reopening of schools would occur. This government sought to outdo previous one and decided schools were opening one way or another mainly for economicla reasons which is fine, the reason does not really matter, the way it was managed does. There are many childcare workers/ creches out of work who have been garda vetted.

    The government could have come to an agreement where they worked in conjunction with schools to provide care.The children could have been split into 2 groups and in schools a 2 1/2 days a week and minded in parish halls, gaa halls, conference rooms, whatever it needed under a gov scheme the other days minded by childcare where they could do homework and play/do pe all under sd guidelines. But they rushed it with no thinking put into it. This would have allowed the parents back to work and the children mix with their friends. It is a basic idea but i am sure the gov could have developed it.

    INstead we are left with rushed guidelines, and children squashed into classrooms because they are not a dot on a page and phrases of pods and bubbles instead of groups and classrooms and more bespoke solutions

    Teachers of course, face the typical slurs whenever they try to highlight problems, but fair play to them, they have got on with it and in reality have put their health and their families health on the line (1. like many other front line workers have 2. I'm not a teacher by the way).

    I'm not sure how it'll go over all but summer 2021 seems a long way away, and you'd have to selfishly hope that if and when it comes to your local school, a sufficient number of schools have already had to deal with it to allow procedures and best practices to be established by that time.

    I am not sure how it will go either, hopefully well. I enjoyed seeing the kids the last few days despite it being through a visor and from a distance. It does not bode well though that the gov have decided that the HSE will decide who will be told if there is a confirmed case in the room. Or that the teacher may not be informed. Already the rules that apply to the rest of society do not apply to schoos and now they are throwing secrecy into the mix, staff will not be informed if a pupil or staff member tests positive. I dont like it when illnesses become secrets. It is Trumpian behaviour. Good to know they have my back.


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  • #5377
    Gentleman Off The Pitch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 603 ✭✭✭Gentleman Off The Pitch


    khalessi wrote: »
    Answered in quotes

    I completely agree, I'm not a teacher so you'll obviously better placed than me to comment, but when I wrote "despite being fully in the knowledge that the guidelines that have applied to most of the workplaces in Ireland up that point could not be achieved" I was trying to state that the approach they took, meant that these could not be achieved, not that they couldn't be achieved by a more innovative approach


  • #5378
    3xh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    Sofia Great Skullcap wrote: »
    You are a disgrace of a poster, were you helping Gemma Doherty putting up banners yesterday, you would fit right in. You are opening admitting to breaking regulations, you mock and deny the advice of experts on things like masks and the need for flu vaccine, you actually want to see people acting normal when no one should be acting normal at the moment.

    Saying we are doing too much testing? Brain dead stuff.

    Another catch-all insult from someone who simply regurgitates the incessant highlighted 'facts' from people and organisations with their own agendas (WHO/CDC/ECDC/HSE/GAVI/CEPI) You know damn well the poster wasn't 'helping Gemma' but you just had to get that sneering comment in. You fully believe in the advice you hear because it comes from the experts through your Facebook feed and the like.

    Don't forget, the experts once recommended no masks for the public because they weren't effective enough and would cause further spread through mishandling and a false sense of security. Now we're told they're basically a lifesaver and need them anywhere but your home. And they weren't discouraged because 'they were protecting the mask supply for medical staff' like you're told.


  • #5379
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    Can the conspiracy theory people head off to the relevant threads and leave this place for some version of discussion related to schools.


  • #5380
    3xh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    wirelessdude01 wrote: »
    Can the conspiracy theory people head off to the relevant threads and leave this place for some version of discussion related to schools.

    Obviously me because I don't agree with your safe space rules. And yet another catch-all tag for someone you don't agree with. You're parents and teachers here, right?

    Discussion is only allowed if you agree with the obvious consensus. Enjoy your vacuum.

    Kids will be kids. Or they should be. Let them sneeze and catch colds during the winter without ostracising them. That quarantine shed in Athlone is a joke, used only to appease worrisome parents. Two chairs? Who's the second one for? Hardly a teacher as they can't be left alone with a kid, I thought? So another pupil? What if one has covid and the other doesn't? But then the second child does contract it from being placed in it? Pathetic theatre is all that is.

    Stop worrying.


    https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0826/1161376-isolation-school/


  • #5381
    wirelessdude01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,441 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    3xh wrote: »
    Obviously me because I don't agree with your safe space rules. And yet another catch-all tag for someone you don't agree with. You're parents and teachers here, right?

    Discussion is only allowed if you agree with the obvious consensus. Enjoy your vacuum.

    Kids will be kids. Or they should be. Let them sneeze and catch colds during the winter without ostracising them. That quarantine shed in Athlone is a joke, used only to appease worrisome parents. Two chairs? Who's the second one for? Hardly a teacher as they can't be left alone with a kid, I thought? So another pupil? What if one has covid and the other doesn't? But then the second child does contract it from being placed in it? Pathetic theatre is all that is.

    Stop worrying.


    https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0826/1161376-isolation-school/

    Well shows how you much you know if you think there has been an 'obvious concensus' on here.

    Anyway the whole shed thing was already discussed. Anyway off ya go to the proper place for your thoughts, here really isn't the place.


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  • #5382
    Blondini
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,480 ✭✭✭Blondini


    3xh wrote: »
    Obviously me because I don't agree with your safe space rules. And yet another catch-all tag for someone you don't agree with. You're parents and teachers here, right?

    Discussion is only allowed if you agree with the obvious consensus. Enjoy your vacuum.

    Kids will be kids. Or they should be. Let them sneeze and catch colds during the winter without ostracising them. That quarantine shed in Athlone is a joke, used only to appease worrisome parents. Two chairs? Who's the second one for? Hardly a teacher as they can't be left alone with a kid, I thought? So another pupil? What if one has covid and the other doesn't? But then the second child does contract it from being placed in it? Pathetic theatre is all that is.

    Stop worrying.


    https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0826/1161376-isolation-school/

    This thread is like a magnet for stupidity.


  • #5383
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    khalessi wrote: »
    We know they do get as sick as adults but as has been mentioned here before, 0-5 year olds have more coronavirus in their nose than adults. 10 years old and up can spread it as much as adults. So going into school means they may not be sick and a runny nose is a symptom of milder infections. So if they spread it other children may get it and not be sick but could pass it to their relatives who could be very sick, or to their teachers who could be very sick.

    Norway's biggest school outbreak had 40 cases of children with covid19 totally related to them being infected in schools.

    That puts paid to the HSE and Dept of Education argument "that kids don't get it and spread it in schools"

    They of course neglected to add the caveat "while schools were closed there was no evidence of spread in schools"

    Children can carry coronavirus in their noses and throats for weeks even if they don't show any symptoms, which might explain how the virus can spread silently, researchers in South Korea reported Friday.

    "In this case series study, inapparent infections in children may have been associated with silent COVID-19 transmission in the community," the researchers wrote in a new study.
    Their lives are in other people's hands: Young people with immune conditions fear coronavirus
    Their lives are in other people's hands: Young people with immune conditions fear coronavirus
    "Interestingly, this study aligns with adult data in which up to 40% of adults may remain asymptomatic in the face of infection," Dr. Roberta DeBiasi and Dr. Meghan Delaney, both of Children's National Hospital in Washington, DC, wrote in an accompanying editorial. Neither was involved in the research.
    "In this study, the authors estimate that 85 infected children (93%) would have been missed using a testing strategy focused on testing of symptomatic patients alone," they wrote.

    https://twitter.com/DrEricDing/status/1299639509412442113?s=20


  • #5384
    3xh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    Blondini wrote: »
    This thread is like a magnet for stupidity.

    Great post. Thanks for not bothering to show what I said is stupid.


  • #5385
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,713 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    3xh wrote: »
    Great post. Thanks for not bothering to show what I said is stupid.

    It doesn’t need to be shown, it’s clear for all to see by reading it that’s it’s pure nonsense. Gemma fan club is that way >


  • #5386
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,880 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »
    Gemma fan club is that way >

    Or the Relaxation of Restrictions thread, which seems to be much the same thing...


  • #5387
    3xh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 594 ✭✭✭3xh


    Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »
    It doesn’t need to be shown, it’s clear for all to see by reading it that’s it’s pure nonsense. Gemma fan club is that way >

    There's that spiteful and immature grouping of someone with a different view to you. Gemma fan club? So, if I question the changing guidance on masks, the distance used for so-called social distancing, to quarantine or not from returning to Ireland etc, I'm a conspiracy theorist and of a certain ilk?

    Can I not disassociate myself from someone such as Gemma whilst also having a similar view to her? What a weird world you're suggesting we live in.

    I hope you're neither a teacher nor a parent with a thought process like that yet alas, I suspect you're at least one of them. Another generation of closed, robotic thinking.


  • #5388
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    3xh wrote: »
    There's that spiteful and immature grouping of someone with a different view to you. Gemma fan club? So, if I question the changing guidance on masks, the distance used for so-called social distancing, to quarantine or not from returning to Ireland etc, I'm a conspiracy theorist and of a certain ilk?

    Can I not disassociate myself from someone such as Gemma whilst also having a similar view to her? What a weird world you're suggesting we live in.

    I hope you're neither a teacher nor a parent with a thought process like that yet alas, I suspect you're at least one of them. Another generation of closed, robotic thinking.

    Being compared to Gemma...

    Am I so out of touch?

    No, it is the teachers who are wrong!


  • #5389
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,061 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »
    You are a disgrace of a poster, were you helping Gemma Doherty putting up banners yesterday, you would fit right in. You are opening admitting to breaking regulations, you mock and deny the advice of experts on things like masks and the need for flu vaccine, you actually want to see people acting normal when no one should be acting normal at the moment. I could go on and on.

    The schools shouldn’t be open but any hope we have of containing the virus with them open is gone if people act like you.

    Saying we are doing too much testing? Brain dead stuff.

    To top it off actively encouraging people not to go to a gp and tut they shouldn’t get their child with symptoms tested. If I posted what I think of that I’d be perma banned.

    Take off your foggy face shield for a minute, my opinions are based on factual real wold evidence, some are just my opinions.
    If you scroll up you'll see a post by me with no thanks, the post which blatantly contradicts the new evidence got a lot of thanks. That means nobody who thanked the contradictory post actually read the first one, that's sheep mentality assuming everything someone says is correct.
    If you read the link you'll see why i'm of the opinion people are freaking out for little reason.

    Unless you can come up with an alternative study your just spouting nonsense and have forgot how to form your opinion.


  • #5390
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,061 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    s1ippy wrote: »
    Being compared to Gemma...

    I met a gemma supporter yesterday at work, thank feck for plexi glass, completely unhinged, thought i'd have to call the guards for a minute. Like a caged animal who was just let out. I'd love to post the cctv but you know GDPR protects bad people.
    All this name calling is no good, jim corr, gemma, joe biden, leo whoever is pointless unless your up close with one of those loons you've no idea what there capable of.
    People need to cut it out and stop the name calling it serves no purpose. It sure doesn't make anyone doing it come across as any way intelligent.


  • #5391
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    I met a gemma supporter yesterday at work, thank feck for plexi glass, completely unhinged, thought i'd have to call the guards for a minute. Like a caged animal who was just let out. I'd love to post the cctv but you know GDPR protects bad people.
    All this name calling is no good, jim corr, gemma, joe biden, leo whoever is pointless unless your up close with one of those loons you've no idea what there capable of.
    People need to cut it out and stop the name calling it serves no purpose. It sure doesn't make anyone doing it come across as any way intelligent.

    You just called us all a bunch of panicked sheep


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  • #5392
    s1ippy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    I think the point of it is to convey to you that saying you
    - have symptoms but aren't getting tested
    - will send your child to school with symptoms
    - will lie and say you contacted the GP
    makes you just like the hated groups, or worse than them because you don't even seem to register that's the reason people are opposed to them.


    To me it's just like the anti vaxxers in the thread the other day who said they aren't antivax but they're not getting the flu jab this year because they never get the flu or because it hurts. It's just mind-numbing stupidity, and that's what Gemma followers sadly represent. Hence the comparison with somebody bragging they won't seek medical help for symptoms of a virus they may have during a pandemic because they feel they're being "hysterical" by doing so. It's next level stuff where with a modicum of intellect, you'd really have to actually struggle to wrap your brain around the logic.


  • #5393
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,061 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    You just called us all a bunch of panicked sheep

    Read the article, I called the ones who thanked the contradictory post sheep, it was headline news around the world yesterday everywhere except Ireland as it doesn't suit the agenda of fear by the media here.
    It's not a conspiracy, it's fact based evidence.


  • #5394
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,061 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    drunkmonkey wrote: »
    Maybe it is in under 19's with no or little symptoms...

    LONDON (Reuters) - Children and young people are far less likely than adults to get severe cases of COVID-19 infection, and death from the pandemic disease among children is exceptionally rare, according to UK research published on Thursday.

    “The highest level message really has to be that (in children with COVID-19) severe disease is rare, and death is vanishingly rare - and that (parents) should be comforted that their children are not at direct harm by going back into school,” he told a briefing.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-children/severe-or-fatal-covid-19-very-rare-in-children-study-finds-idUSKBN25O2DE
    khalessi wrote: »
    We know they do get as sick as adults but as has been mentioned here before, 0-5 year olds have more coronavirus in their nose than adults. 10 years old and up can spread it as much as adults. So going into school means they may not be sick and a runny nose is a symptom of milder infections. So if they spread it other children may get it and not be sick but could pass it to their relatives who could be very sick, or to their teachers who could be very sick.

    Norway's biggest school outbreak had 40 cases of children with covid19 totally related to them being infected in schools.
    irishblessing wrote: »
    What is why. A sick child you don't even know displaying two of the signs of COVID? No one is panicking, ffs. And it's 98% that are negative. Keeping in mind a number of tests have faulty results and still others could be too early in the process to register on the test. That's why the HSE officially recommends isolation for 14 days still and two negative tests.

    My cousin had it (still recovering) and tested negative the first time. Symptoms got worse, second test came positive.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/if-you-have-a-negative-covid-19-test-quarantine-5185690-Aug2020/
    Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »
    You are a disgrace of a poster, were you helping Gemma Doherty putting up banners yesterday, you would fit right in. You are opening admitting to breaking regulations, you mock and deny the advice of experts on things like masks and the need for flu vaccine, you actually want to see people acting normal when no one should be acting normal at the moment. I could go on and on.

    The schools shouldn’t be open but any hope we have of containing the virus with them open is gone if people act like you.

    Saying we are doing too much testing? Brain dead stuff.

    To top it off actively encouraging people not to go to a gp and tut they shouldn’t get their child with symptoms tested. If I posted what I think of that I’d be perma banned.
    s1ippy wrote: »
    I think the point of it is to convey to you that saying you
    - have symptoms but aren't getting tested
    - will send your child to school with symptoms
    - will lie and say you contacted the GP
    makes you just like the hated groups, or worse than them because you don't even seem to register that's the reason people are opposed to them.


    To me it's just like the anti vaxxers in the thread the other day who said they aren't antivax but they're not getting the flu jab this year because they never get the flu or because it hurts. It's just mind-numbing stupidity, and that's what Gemma followers sadly represent. Hence the comparison with somebody bragging they won't seek medical help for symptoms of a virus they may have during a pandemic because they feel they're being "hysterical" by doing so. It's next level stuff where with a modicum of intellect, you'd really have to actually struggle to wrap your brain around the logic.

    Oh we're back to parents who don't want to start vaccinating their children for the flu at 2 are anti vaxxers now. Talking about a post of assumptions.


  • #5395
    irishblessing
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 962 ✭✭✭irishblessing


    What on earth is the point you're trying to make with all those quotes.


  • #5396
    smellyoldboot
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,075 ✭✭✭smellyoldboot


    The poster is boasting on another thread about heading to an illegal "rave" this evening. It's our equivalent to a Trump voter. You'll get no sense or reason whatsoever out of them.


  • #5397
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,512 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Walter Mitty would be shaking his head.


  • #5398
    downthemiddle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,649 ✭✭✭downthemiddle


    irishblessing wrote: »
    Ah god, seriously? It is just me or does anyone else seem to have people twisting up your posts to accuse you of saying something you literally never said or even suggested for that matter. It's tiresome and very, very annoying.

    Still feel I was twisting dear old Drunk’s posts?


  • #5399
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,061 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    irishblessing wrote: »
    What on earth is the point you're trying to make with all those quotes.

    Read this https://www.reuters.com/article/us-h...-idUSKBN25O2DE
    Read Kallisis post that got all the thanks after mine, their first line contradicts the evidence. Nobody is looking for evidence, pizza protects you from covid, where's the evidence? There's so much nonsense and fear out there people will believe anything.


  • #5400
    drunkmonkey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,061 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    downthemiddle wrote: »
    Still feel I was twisting dear old Drunk’s posts?

    they twisted my words, left out the word mini, see you just can't trust people to tell the truth when there's an agenda involved.


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  • #5401
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    Well well well, just passed by the local playground yesterday evening and it was completely packed with young kids running around jumping on top of swings and zip lines.

    Either a lot of parents are fine with the school situation or else there's a lot of hypocrites. I think theres a loud minority of teachers and idiot parents who were trying to stop them going back to school.


This discussion has been closed.
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